Paul OMahony
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The building on the corner of O’Connell Street (above the Travel Shop) was proposed by my company to be used as a pilot project as a suitable building to receive full funding under our proposed scheme ‘building-conservation sponsorship’. Following discussions with the owner of this building, the owner had agreed with our proposal that a full architectural conservation report would first be carried out on the building, and if found that it would be possible to remove the rendering from the brickwork without damaging the brickwork, a full and proper restoration of this building would be undertaken to return this building to its former glory. This included removal of PVC windows and returning the windows to teh original wooden sash windows.
It was proposed that this undertaking would be fully paid for by my company using the ‘building-conservation sponsorship’ scheme. Anyone not knowing what our proposed scheme enatiled please see my thread under ‘high specification shrouding’.
Our proposal to fund carrying out this work on this building in conjunction with having a proper architectural conservation plan carried out on the building was never replied to.
Personnally, I would very much like to use this concept to renovate and restore the old Fire-Station building on Thomas Street – once one of the most beautiful buildings in Dublin and now shamedly a falling wreck.
I would personnaly much prefer to see a shroud on this building which is there for the purposes of helping to raise funds for this buildings conservation, rather than to have to look at the ugly posters which are plastered all over the hoarding at this building….and which have been allowed to be placed there uncontrolled for a period now of over 3 years.
I know from conversations I have had re. this building that the building has a shortfall of Euro 700,000 to carryout immediate conservation works…..this has been the staus quo for the last 4 years…..in the mean time this beautiful building cntinues to crumble with no-one willing tolift a hand to save it.
Thanks Graham.
I do agree that these shrouds are of a size and nature that they make an impression – but I do not agree that these shrouds becoming dominating within our streetscapes. I am proposing that shrouds be acceptable only in very limited circumstances where there is an obvious and real need for the income being created by their presence paying for conservation works to be carried out on our built environment. Part of the rules that would need to be put in place for permitting shrouding is that on no occassion should two shrouds be allowed to be placed on the same street.
I do not believe that it is only the property-owners that are least in need of conservation-funding that benefit from this idea. I have spoken with over a dozen Dublin city property-owners whose buildings are nothing more than a digrace within the public domain, and who have absolutely no intention whatsoever of carrying out at conservation work on their buildings. In many/most cases it was even said to me “why should we ?”. These landlords are fully aware that because of the lack of enforcement from our city councils regarding making them take care of their buildings, they know they don’t have to do anything to take care of their buildings facades. It was suggested to me that they often do nothing becauise as soon as they try to do anything to their buildings they are immediately put under pressure by the planners/heritage organisations to carry out repairs which they simply will not spend that kind of money on.
Though this dissappoints me greatly – these are the hard facts of the economy-driven society we live in today.
When it was mentioned to these property-owners that they might be able to avail of substantial funding to help them to carry out the conservation-works, but that any money given would be contractually-bound for the purposes of carrying out conservation-works – all of the property owners immediately said that they would be interested in participating in such a scheme.
Unfortunately, it often takes waving this kind of carrott in front of people, before they recognise that what they have in their possession is a great and public asset which needs to be properly maintained for all to enjoy.
PS it takes a team of engineers to do what we do, and a number of weeks planning.
We do not pin/hang/attach/drop banners from buildings…..this practice is a disgrace.
I know that the commercial nature of what has been placed against some of these fine buildings will make some people shudder – but I ask that people consider that for those against shrouding don’t knock it until you really see it. Do not make the mistake of comparing ugly illegal banners – which can sometimes be seen in Dublin – to what we do.
It is my belief that the long-term gain to be won with this concept far outweighs the short-term pain which must be endured by some people with this idea….and it is just some people. We have found from carrying out quite a few surveys at the base of the shrouds when we have them erected, that the vast majority of people really like what we do.
There will always be people who do not like what we do ….I would ask those people to try to concentrate on the long-term gain for our built-architecture from using this concept
I mentioned earlier that I would prepare a blog-site which will show some examples of my companies work – here it is
http://bcsp.blogspot.com/
In total during the last 5 years we have completed over 700 projects, most of which were on continental Europe. All projects were done legally and with the full support of the city planners.
Of the examples I have given, some of the projects (the smaller privately owned building, the first project) was fully paid for by our concept. This included replacing old windows with original sash windows, repairing the roofing, repair works to the rendering, repainting etc.
The other projects received funding approximating 40%-60% of the overall cost of carrying out the conservation works on the buildings. All works had a conservation-report completed on them by the planning authorities before any works began to identify what conservation work was necessary to be carried out.As stated above, as a company we are totally against placing banners on the side of buildings or wrapping buildings for the sole purpose of commercial gain. The wrapping of the cornerstone pub was nothing short of rediculous and it has happened a number of times now….in all cases it took at least 4 weeks before the offending banner was removed by the council.
The BurgerKing banner on O’Connell St. was similarly a disgrace…with seemingly no effort whatsoever from the council to get rid of the banner or to heavily punsih (fine) the property-owner.
We have a concept – that concept is building-conservation sponsorship….our shrouds are only permitted to be placed with the agreement of the planners, and the income must be transparent and used so that the conservation works on the building can be carried out….this is common-sense. Use the corporate companies to raise financing to carryout much needed and much underfunded conservation work on our buildings.
Hi Lotts, Hutton.
I’m ging to prepare a blog which will show some of the projects my company has completed in other cities….I would be really interested to get some feedback and to hear people’s opinions on the work that has been undertaken using this cncept.
You are also absolutely right that it would seem what we now have to cahse is political permission rather than planning permission…..maybe I have been out of the country for too long but I had hoped that we had moved on from the time when you had to go running to your local politician to get anything done……I’m totally against this kind of political pandering just for the sake of it !
The idea/concept is a good one – there’s no hidden agenda – it seems a pity that the powers that be seem unwilling to even consider that this might be the case.
I’ll let you know when that blog is done
Unfortunately, we didn’t get an opportunity during 2004 to make a written submission in relation to the new Dublin city Development Plan, as we were a little late to the table with our approach in 2004. When we did come to the table with our proposal, we were led to believe that our proposal was being taken seriously and was being considered by the powers-that-be. This process dragged our application into early 2005. In early 2005, I made a presentation to the SPC-Economic Planning and Development. After my presentation where I laid all of the facts out on the table in a transparent fashion a lengthy discussion followed. In total, 12 memebers of the SPC attended the meeting including 10-councillors. Each had their say on what we were proposing. 10 of the 12 SPC-members thought that what we were proposing was a very good idea, and said that they endorsed it. Two senior planners were also attendant at the meeting and suggested that this was a complex area and they would like to present a follow-on presentation to the SPC on this subject. The next SPC-meeting was 2-months later, which we were not invited to attend. Following this meeting we were sent a letter from the council stating that the subject had now been fully investigated and they would not be taking any further action on it, as it was felt that our proposal presented a material contravention to the proposed Dublin city development plan and would require an ammendment or variation to the Plan to allow their use, and at that point it was too late to make any further submissions which might delay the presentation of the new Plan.
So, unfortunately, what has happened to us in the last 10-months has left us feeling very much ignored and more than a little duped.
We are now at a point where we questionning should we put any more energy into promoting what is very obviously a very good idea if we are not going to get any real support for the idea from senior planners ?
I have made many submissions to the council regarding the blatent disrespect that the large billboard companies pay to built-architecture in Dublin……to date I have received no reply. It seems obvious that due to no enforcement and blatant inaction on the matter of billboards and posterboards, the outdoor advertising industry in Dublin has been ruined for any legal operators who respect the industry and the environment in which they work.
Mr.Thomond Park.
Thanks for your comments and advice…..I think that a share purchase on this one would be a very good investment….you may have to wait though….it may take me another while yet….you could say at this point that they have worn me down but I’m not going away. As you can probably tell I am a very strong believer in this concept…it does work, it is working elsewhere, and there is no reason why it should not work here. The fact that planning decisions in Ireland sometimes seem to be moreoften based on emotions rather than on common sense is changing in Ireland. Having recently returned to Ireland from living abroad for a number of years, I strongly feel a change in Irish people and the way they perceive things. Young Irish people today are demanding change. This applies to the way that planning decisions are being made as well as everything else. I believe that our senior planners are at last beginning to think outside of the box on a number of very important subjects…to date the changes have been tentative but this will quickly change in the months ahead as it becomes clear to our planners that sometimes taking a risk on something different is worth it.
I would like to believe that our planners will investigate all potential new ideas that have the potential to increase people’s enjoyment of our cities…..
….I just haven’t figured out a way to convince the planners that they really need to further invetigate this one.
Now is the right time…..it is simply a challenege of getting to sit in front of the right people to have my case heard in an open fair, and transparent manner.
…in other cities when we completed our first ‘building-conservation project’ we paid a company to carry out an on-the-street survey of people’s opinions on what we were doing. The results were astonishing. In Amsterdam, 89% of the people questionned said that they thought our building shrouds were beautifula nd added in a positive way to the street landscape. This figure rose to 95% when the respondents were told that by having the shoud there it was helping to pay for the conservation works to be carried out on the building…
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I will convince the powers that-be that this concept makes perfect sense.
Thanks guys once again for your comments and your guidance.
I am personnally very happy that the Council – at last – seems to be taking a more active role re.removal of the terrible examples of advertising and shop facade advertising that surround the O’Connell street area. I think we have to ask ourselves the question how on earth a lot of this advertising was permitted in the first place. As you know, the Council has recently designated a large area of inner city Dublin either a ‘conservation area’ or an ‘architectural conservation area’. This designation means that the Council now has far reaching powers to rectify what it sees as obvious breaches of planning rules re.architectural developments.
Whilst in theory, I fully agree with what the Council is doing with this designation, I also believe it is imperitive that the Council fully informs itself in relation to planning developemtents from other cities/countries. I am not saying that what is good for another city should be good enough for us here….what I am saying is that it is imperitive that the planners investigate this subject. Without equipping itself with full knowledge on any area of development it is not possible for a Planning Department to make a any sensible decisions.
All of our city councils have in their possession a listing of hundreds of derelict-sites, or properties with which there is no ownership papers for. It is usually, these very same properties which show us the worst cases of examples of billboards, 48-sheets, 96-sheets, posters etc. We need to ask ourselves the question why ? The reason that it is normally council sites which are covered in posters and billboards is because by offering a licenece to use these sites the Council is creating a significant revenue itself. Tenders are usually made out for these sites by city councils, with only one very large international outdoor advertising company in a position to win this tender. Because it is only possible to win this tender if you are an exceptionally large outdoor advertising company with very deep pockets, smaller advertising companies never get a look in. This is the reason that there is so many comapnies so quick to abuse the system.
I can understand people’s dislike of outdoor advertising. You may find it difficult to believe but 95% of the outdoor advertising I see around me everyday I believe to be a disgrace…..but this does not mean that all forms of outdoor advertsing should be banned. There is room in our cities for outdoor advertsing but it has to be severely regulated, by well-informed planners – and it should only be allowed if it is done to the highest possible standard.
I believe that high-spec shroud advertising done to the standards that can be seen in many other cities in Europe can breath life, fun, and energy into areas of our cities which hitherto were dark ugly places. If the shrouds also add funding to help restore the building it is placed against then in my view the social benefit of having shrouds far outweighs the negative effects.
One final answer to one of the above questions…..no my company will not do any business with any company that wants to put up a banner advertisement illegally. We have spent 10-months trying to convince senior planners in Ireland that shroud advertising can be a good thing if properly introduced. To date we have gotten nowhere. During this time we have not done any shroud-advertising business in Ireland – this despite the fact that shabby banners continue to go up on buildings all over Dublin on a regular basis.
My company has begun to focus its energy on UK where shroud-advertising is permitted under British Planning law. We are currently talking with Brighton city council, in using our concept to help pay for essential conservation works to be carried out on the Brighton Pavilion.
I can’t help but feel that a great opportunity has been lost in Dublin due to lack of interest.
Has anyone any good advise on how to progress this ? We strongly feel that if we are given the right opportunityto present our case to the right people (in Govt./ or elsewhere) that common sense will pull through on this matter.
Many thanks
PAUL O’MAHONY
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Oh and absolutely abhore billboards in Dublin…they are placed anywhere and everywhere with seemingly no controls. Also by there very nature poster boards and billboards should not be allowed anymore in cities – their advetisements are made from paper, so as soon as it rains the posters fall apart and leave litter everywhere…..they’re a disaster
Unfortunately, outdoor advertising has a very bad name because of this kind of thing…however this should not mean that new ideas and new concepts should thus be always ignored
Hi everyone,
and thanks for all your comments. I’m now going to try to answer a few of the issues concerns which have been brought up. My company specialises in co-operating with city councils in order to introduce scaffold-shrouding in an organised structured and limited fashion. We only place shrouding on scaffolding and we only place shrouding using a permit system which is tightly controlled by the city planners. Also, we only produce shrouds to the very highest possible visual standards – and all shrouds must be properly placed within a speciallially measured and fitted framework.
In terms of the buildings which these shrouds are put on, they are only permitted on buildings which have been identified with the aid of the city council planners and which would benefit greatly from a serious injection of funding to carry out conservation works on them.
(I) my company has approached all of the city councils here in Dublin and have proposed a number of different buildings which we feel would be highly appropriate and would benefit greatly from the kind of funding that this concept can create. In most cases, we have been told that the Senior Planners are not interested. We have invited senior planners to come and visit any of the 15 other cities which we have introduced our concept of ‘building-conservation sponsorship’, where we will introduce them to other city planners who have for the last 5 years seen the benefit of introducing this concept to their cities. Any perceived difficulties or questions regarding the concept could at this point be answered. To date, all city planners have declined, or have not even answered our offer.
There was a fantastic opportunity to sponsor the conservation costs of cleaning the statues in Dublin city, and this proposal was made to the city 4-months before any cleaning work commenced on the statues. We believe that approximately, Euro 100,000 could have been raised by A-Class Advertising firms who are used to the concept of high-specification shroud advertising and who would have been very happy to use these A-Class locations as a very temporary advertising opportunity.
Please remember, the shrouding goes on the scaffold, not on the monument themselves.Our offer to raise this kind of money to carry out these works, was also declined by the city.
I have very strong opinions on the matter of having a filthy dirty Dr.Quirky’s shroud hanging on O’Connell street – but it is probably best not to draw me out on this subject, I was hoping to have a relaxing evening.
We have made every effort to introduce this concept to Ireland in an open, honest and socially beneficial manner, and to date to say that we are being ignored would be an understatement.
As an outdoor advertising company we are completely against long-tem advertising of any form. Outdoor advertisng by its very nature must be very temporary (3-months max), must be of the very highest standard possible so that the general public like it, and must only be put on building sites (not derelict sites, as it is far to easy for the this definition to be abused).
I personnally strongly believe in high specification shroud-advertising, and this does not include any of the rubbish banners which are currently being placed all over Dublin city without any permission from the planning authorities. What seems to surprise a lot of people when I tell them is that I am also a lover of buildings and built-architecture – I strongly believe, and I have seen it work very successfully in other cities – that this concept has the potential to do a really graet amount of good for our cities’ built-architecture.
Does anyone have any tips on how to convince Irish Planners that there is some really great ideas and concepts happening in other great cities which need to be investigated…..and as a city planner it is essential to keep abreast of what new developments are happening in other cities.
