mickletterfrack

@Sue wrote:

if you’re not paying any tax here, then you’re probably breaking the law already.

typically people who DO pay their taxes will have to foot the large legal bill when the likes of you and Salafia yet again lose your court challenges to these decisions

Au contraire Sue….Im availing of @Sue wrote:

proper and legal decision

taken by @Sue wrote:

the impartial instruments and institutions of the state. Due process has been followed to the letter.

So dont claim that the routing and manner of development of the M3 is correct and proper just cos the decision was signed off in the corridors of our elected power. Getting back to the by-pass , it really is pathetic, as all your lot can base your debate surrounding this issue is that those against it are eco lulu tree hugging Bertie bashers and the main reason pro the routing is cos the decision has a Departmental seal on it. Id say you were just mud slinging although im pretty sure you never even touched the stuff..

This Tara Bypass decision and everything about it stinks on every level … its a scandal …(as are some of are tax statutes 🙂 )

Sue, maybe your Berties daughter in disguise , your logic is fundamentally flawed .

@Sue wrote:

If they DO find a Wood Quay or a Newgrange on the M3 route, we would NOT simply say let’s drive through it. This is the sort of dishonest argument we have to cope with all the time from eco lulus, as Bertie might call them. Set up a straw man, knock it down, cheer. If they DO find a Newgrange on the M3 route, I will (a) eat my hat and (b) completely and totally agree that the M3 should be rerouted.
However, they haven’t and they won’t find Newgrange or Wood Quay on this route. All they will find is a “henge” of no significance, and the bones of a big dead dog. Therefore, all the comparisons between Newgrange and the M3 are complete and utter nonsense. Don’t waste your time making any more of them, Letterfrack person.
Stick to the argument, stick to the route, on with the road!

How do you know they wont find anything of major significance on the current route? As I pointed out in my post the experts have been wrong before (documented fact) regarding what lies beneth our hills and mounds, so there is a chance they are wrong once again. So unless your some kind of walking human geophysic-sonar device, which given your babbling posts you may well be you cant say that they wont find anything .

Evidently your okay with the destruction of a National monument as in the case of the Lismullin site discovered on the M3 route.

The biggest flaw in your argument is your admission that if you we do find something you will agree to re-routing. What if theres nowhere to turn/reroute to at the point, we may have to retrace our steps a considerable distance to find an alternate route. Millions will and have been wasted up to that point. Its a well known circumvention of planning rules to build first worry about the legality afterwards, trust me I know this ploy works and so do you thats why your a proponent of it.

Theres nothing dishonest about my argument, although given your a supporter of Berties actions you probably have a different definition of the word honesty as I do, and I will take being referred to as an eco lulu as a complement , its better than just being a plain lulu like yourself.

Having read the thread, I’m amazed to see the future of the endemic corruption and myopic vision that has formed such a part of Ireland’s recent development is secure in the hands of so many subscribers to this site.

Please don’t anyone dare to quote an expert or authority no matter how qualified or esteemed the archaeologist is from DOE or NRA in saying that what is currently being destroyed is not of international significance. They know where their bread is buttered and are more worried about their mortgages, bonuses and pensions than any mound of earth in Meath, they are simply props for their employers.

Just so you’re aware, the so called ‘experts’ at the time from the governing bodies and the national university institutions also stated that the Newgrange complex itself was a simple burial chamber of no significant importance. This is a documented fact. It was only due to the diligence of some amateur archaeologists, who literally broke into the monument and explored the portal, surrounding chambers and carvings in the dead of night that the whole truth about the sheer complexity and scale of the Newgrange site was exposed for all the world to share and marvel at, how it related to celestial and solar events as well as alignments with other sites over a large radius. And just so you know its still under investigation as all its secrets have not yet been revealed. Martin Brennans “Stones of Time” covers much of this clandestine work conducted by people who would be referred to as eco-Nazis by those in the pro-M3 bypass ‘camp’ . (camp seems a bad word to use for these people with its connotations of dirt and earth and mud, maybe the pro-M3 ‘gated-community’ would be more appropriate)

Anyways please don’t quote an expert saying what is being destroyed now is not of significance, you or they simply cant know for sure. Suffice to say that if the same logic those who are pro the current M3 routing was applied then, potentially we would not have Newgrange, a location paraded for all the world to see on all current government, tourist and heritage forums.

It all smarts of those US marines during the fall of Baghdad, who stood armed guard outside the Iraqi Oil ministry whilst next door the looters pillaged the Iraqi museum of antiquities. As least they had an excuse and were under orders, we seem to be bulldozing our way through our heritage of our own free will. The guilty know who they are, may the sins of the father and mother(Sue) rest on your sons and daughters, unfortunately my kids will suffer too.. f*&k it!

If my claims are so wide of the mark … then wouldnt it have been much easier to correct me rather than continue my public tongue lashing…

Foot, shot and yourself… comes to mind, your countering your own claim by saying my comments have lacked engagement, Ive had plenty responses inculding your s , none of which addressed the issues I raised
ie. the building defects and also the fact no-one has countered those claims.
And come to think of it , if you respond again then your previous claim about not replying to “trolls” (which was a rather purile comment unbecoming of a member of the RIAI) will be called into question.

Regarding the leaks, considering both the Furniture college and the Glucksman are plagued with leaks, does this mean that both these contractors are to blame or should we lay that at the doorstep of the only other common element in this (besides the H2O!) and thats ODT.
You are annoying me know because your not reading what I say, I never said there were construction defects per se, I said there were design defects, if the spec say use untreated timber and the cladding spec does not overlap enough the best builder in the world cannot prevent leakage. Anyways surely regular site inspections be the architects would have picked up on these issues before completion.

The biennale piece was embarrassing, any apprentice 1st fix carpenter would have designed and knocked that up in his sleep.

Yes I know they have won many awards, that has been stated a number of times, in fact thats the main component of the argument to contradict what I have said. Thats kind of a given considering the thread title!
Awards mean very little, evey sycophantic organisation has them .

At this stage I hope someone can demonstrate in some empirical manner where the cracks lie in my logic, cos I just dont get the ODT work.

I was wondering when that old faithful would be trotted out, ‘any defects, its the building contractors fault ‘,
your an idiot. The architects specs for Letterfrack where followed but they didnt allow enough of an overlap on the cladding and also un-treated timbers are basically unpredictable in their movement.
The defects in ODTs buildings are design fault. They offer up all this sophistry about the at one with nature element to their buildings, but they dont actually understand the properties of the materials they work with.
Theres a bit of the Emperors new clothes syndrome to it all, and that includes alot fo the work going on around us.

Heres a question for you TP,
For a couple of hundred years artists have travelled to the west to avail of the wonderful light, the colours, hues and shades it throws up as the sea sky and land combine to offer a unique inspirational experience, you only have to look at a Paul Henry to see what unique spectral properties exist out there. But also on a practical note they have had to deal with harsh elements, ie the cold and damp.
So if you were putting a drawing studio in a design college where students are sitting at a desk not moving about much would you
A) Locate it strategicaly where this inspirational light and its thermal properties are availed of, or would you like ODT
B) Put it virtually underground encased in cold dank concrete and dependant on flourescent lighting
Oh hang on I know it was the building contractors fault.

On top of the defects that we both agree exist in their buildings , although Id blame the architect, you fault the sub-bies, in my opinion I find their buildings uninspiring and passionless, but then as they say
opinion’s are like assholes everybodys got one.

PeterF. … everything I said went way over your head… back to 1st year for you…. God is in the details and all that…. suffice to say you havent addressed any point I made , you merely took exception to the manner in which I made it… and thats whats sterotypical, among other things..

I didnt make a simple dismissal of their work I pointed out some glaring defects in it, (I merely mentioned a handful, believe me there are dozens more). Outside of any merit derived from breaking new design ground buildings also have a practical purpose to perform especially for the people who use and look at them. If a building fails as a functional entity then I find it hard to justify it no matter how revelutionary the design is.

Dont talk about interpretation of the site ether, I know for a fact that ODT waned to demolish the existing Quaker building that was there. How interpretive is that. None of their award winning buildings sit well in their environment. Most structures of that size will have inherent qualitys and appeals simply because of their sheer size, the skill and talent lies in architecting the appropriate solution, something ODT fail to do, they simply drop
a brick from outerspace on a site.

I believe ODT take their influence from simple craftsmen, they look at the very basics of what joiners, masons, tradespeople do, basic forms of what these people will construct day to day, they spruce it up with some verbage and then present it as some fantastical interpretation. You just have to look at the buildings to see this.

Big deal they got an RIAI award, that doesnt prove anything and says more about their peers than about ODT, as the greeks said you can judge a society by its heroes , maybe the same can be applied to RIAI. Next thing you know you will want us to ‘celebrate’ an architect who designs flyovers for motorways with a seat on Aosdana… oh shit they just did that.

M

ODT are a joke, as James Krenov says people get away with bad craft by calling it art.
I went to visit the new gallery in Cork a few months after it opened, hadnt seen it before but heard lots about it. Glucksman more like yucks man didnt like it all, all that rubbish they went on about in the press releases, award winning, ‘respecting the site, inserting into the woodland’ totally crap if you ask me, I struggled to find a redeeming feature.
It doesnt work as an art space, or lend itself to viewing or interpreting anything. It already feels like it needs a facelift. The only plus side for me was that seeing this cluttered junkheap helps me to understand better what terms like, form, function, design, detail, craft style are about, cos its certainly not present here. Id love to have seen some of the other submissions. It was a lovely location, I spent many summer evenings lazing by the river here listening to the water and the tennis balls, we used go ‘bushing’ by the tennis courts on the river there..
Are they really the leading architects of this generation? Whilst browing in the bookshop the register girl and an attendant were talking, he was saying that ‘ its only a open a couple of months and already its leaking all over the shop’ (he was from Cork after all) . Did they learn nothing in letterfrack, capillary action. treated timber, bare concrete. I cant get this building and everyone else does. Dont good architects take an interest in the minutiae of their buildings, ODT look like they gave a bad mockup to the builder and moved on, everything in it was distasteful and badly laid out. For instance you have to look askew at items in the sealed room, wheelchairs need to get the lift from the cafe (which feels like a bunker and not a woodland cafe) to the loo (whos style is out of step with the rest) , the stair rail look likes a leaving cert metalwork project, the doors they found in a skip, I ran out of the place. Oh i also heard someone turned down a job in the Glucksman because there are no offices for people to work there, have a look next time you visit theres no space for anyone located in the building to work in, one person ended up having to work out of their car.
They also screwed up the Letterfrack furniture college, completely inappropriate, non-functional design for its location and purpose. And that piece of crap they sent to the biennale in Vienna was embarrassing.