lexington
Forum Replies Created
- Posts
@mickeydocs wrote:
You make some excellent points Lex, and these are your best to date 🙂
Thank you mickeydocs for your most generous words – they are very kind, I sincerely appreciate them.
In response to jungle, a similar scenario occured in Cork not so long ago. Northgate Investments applied to develop a hostel adjacent to the Gate Multiplex and Apartments on Kyrls Quay. Permission was granted – within a few months of the development’s completion, entitled ‘Northgate House’, an application was submitted to Cork Corp. to change usage of the building from hostel to apartments. Permission was subsequently granted.With relation to O’Callaghan Properties development at Jurys Hotel – I don’t believe the hotel element is intended for apartment usage. A deeply critical cynic may say otherwise, but I believe the hotel element was a focus from day one – if only a focus to the side of a much larger apartment proposal. As part of the deal with Jurys Doyle Group – the hotel element was very much a concern, and subsequently an arrangement was signed to agree to lease back the hotel from O’Callaghan Properties for at least 25 years at 2m euro p.a. A full leisure centre and conference centre are incorporated into the hotel structure. I think the deal works nicely in the fact O’CP get their 277 apartments and a guaranteed annual return of 2m p.a. before even one apartment is sold. While Jurys gain an extra 26 rooms, a brand new hotel, decent parking, adequate conference facilities and 30m from the sale of land to boot. A return of 2m p.a. isn’t a bad deal either. The cost of redeveloping the hotel on their own would have been far more expensive – and probably would not have corresponded to the standard of what is being proposed.
As a continuation of my previous post –
It strikes me, that too often developers and planners hear from retaillers that space in Cork city centre for retail development is far too limited – especially along Patrick’s Street. The backlog of retaillers vying for space is substantial – and quite often, when space does become available along the thoroughfare, it’s a blink or you’ll miss situation. Although I back developments like that proposed by O’Callaghan Properties for Academy Street, Rockfell on Cornmarket Street and Frinailla along Grand Parade – much needed projects – I still believe that retail space is not really in short supply as such, its just not being used efficiently.
Patrick’s Street is lined with beautiful old department stores like Grants, Burtons, Munster Arcade, Roches Stores and Brown Thomas. Though BT, Roches and Munster Arcade (Penneys) may be excluded from this discussion – places like Grants and Burtons are often used at ground floor for retail and see their remaining floors for mere storage or run-down offices.
I for one, believe that a substantial area of retail space may be allowed for in the refurbishment of these old department stores and reorganisation of internal layouts. By expanding upward, creating – for example – an open area centre surrounded by upper level balconies to cater for increased retail space – many of those retaillers who complain about the lack of space, may be afforded such gold-dust. Existing tenants stand to lose little if they simply adapt to reorganised layouts which will improve the visual and practical environments for businesses and consumers alike. One only has to look at the unflattering signage adorned on the former Burtons Department Store by Oasis for one to see how existing layouts are unsatisfactory. Grants Dept Store stands to benefit immensely from such redevelopment. Cork now has a world-class pedestrian friendly shopping street in that of Patrick’s Street – can we not afford to make simple alterations to our historical and eye-catching former department store buildings to boost this reputation further? Aesthetics improve, businesses benefit, consumers benefit – what’s there to lose?
I think such redevelopment will compliment further the blend of old and new as Cork city is reborn in the wave of new investment and development.
Personally I think the current HMV building is a beautiful piece of architecture. From its ornate detailling to ‘Roman-esque’ columns, I believe it is a fine and sadly overlooked structure.
In terms of development – the building I believe is an attractive investment opportunity, but not in terms of development. The floorspace of the building is still limited and expansion opportunities are confined. If an expansion – incorporating premises extending to a Carey’s Lane frontage – were available for development, for perhaps, a higher-order retail mall, I think this would increase the attractiveness of the premises from a developers point of view. However, as is, I believe the buildings current nature is best served as a store facility (like HMV). Personally, unless development plans were of an unparallelled aesthetic nature, I would object to any tampering with this fine specimen of architecture. Somethings are best left as they are. I believe the HMV building is such a structure.
@kingcronin wrote:
Hope im not picking your brains too much?
Not much to pick at I’m afraid! 🙂
I suppose what I was trying to edge there at the time – in the context of what we were talking about – was that the Capitol Cineplex stood to be substantially redeveloped as a commercial facility, without mentioning in black and white ‘The Capitol Cineplex’. Ward Anderson, as an opearting entity, has its most prominent premises in that of the Capitol. Without delving into extravagant explanation – I believe it was more a matter of wording by implication. I am aware of Tom Anderson’s own other properties around Cork – but considering the continued lease agreement with HMV, I didn’t believe this would be clear to persons reading this forum as the obvious development location given the associated details I provided attached to the development proposals.
Since then, the Capitol Cineplex management have announced at a public level, its intention to continue cinema operations for the foreseeable future, I am aware however of the deals and discussions that have taken place between Ward Anderson and developers – which from my information, suggests that development plans for the future have not been ruled out entirely.
Yes I am ashamed to admit it, but here is a poorly scanned image of the Kenny Group’s development on South Main Street I know it’s not the best, but at least it gives some perspective. The development under the existing grant (by ABP) is for a 7-storey, 22-bedroom hotel, 38 apartments, 141 multi-storey carpark, superpub, retail centre, offices, restaurants, cafes and boardwalk. Paul Kenny has run this development through planning in various incarnations – the most recent being for extra S50 apartments – an application which was subsequently withdrawn. At the moment, both the Kenny Group and PRC inform me that their project is undergoing revisions and due to for reapplication with CCC come early 2005. A few changes will be made to the project – but its general height and design will remain.
This image is taken from a South Main Street Bridge persepctive looking back down at South Main Street. The rear of Frinailla’s Grand Parade Plaza development can be seen behind the Kenny Group building. The Kenny development fronts out onto Grand Parade via an incorporated protected structure at 50 Grand Parade. The existing site is being used as a surface car-park. The whole street will look substantially rejuvenated with these 2 new developments in tow. Frinailla, who have made a number of substantial finds through excavation on there GP Plaza site, have earmarked late December, early Janurary as desirable construction start dates.
For those of you interested in the Water Street development – here is an extract from a brief e-mail I received from an involved party concerning the revisions to the development for a new application.
”We are currently looking at issues such as daylight and sunlight for surrounding properties and the development itself. We believe that the revised design will stand up to scrutiny in this area. The density of the scheme is an issue but not the tower itself, which paradoxically is not a dense element due to its slender profile.
my own personal opinion is because this is the first scheme in the North Docks area that the concerns of the council is not about the development itself but about setting precendents with respect to setbacks, general heights(rather than one off towers) and density.
We hope to lodge again in the Spring.”
@sw101 wrote:
here ya go
Location! Location! Location!
But still I don’t get what ya mean??? Still the Swiss Re Building is a stunning piece of modern architecture – visually and mechanically. If we ever had something similar (albeit not as large-scale) down along the Cork Docklands – I would be standing nearby with a big smile on my face.
And sorry Leesider for the delay in reply – The Eglinton Street Project will be 70m main structure, 80m if you include the spire. Cork County Hall is 66m at the moment, but will increase to 67m after its redevelopment. Water Street originally proposed a tower of 69m over 19-storeys – this may be subject to change in light of a new application currently under design.:rolleyes: Riga Limited (O’Callaghan Properties and Jurys Doyle Group) today submitted a Further Information and Development Revision application to CCC – even though no formal Further Info request was issued. This marks the third unsolicited submission of Further Info from Riga Ltd, but the most significant. The move is a further response by O’Callaghan Properties to ease some of the many troubles the application for Jurys has received – as reported in previous posts.
The new revisions are being made to ease the concerns of many objectors. Among the revisions being made are: a reduction of apartment numbers from 303 to 277. The reduction in height of 3 blocks – two from 6 to 4 storeys and one from 6 to 3 storeys. And the movement of the Jurys Hotel element 6m south,
The 9 storey block, height of Jurys Hotel (6 storeys), access bridges and height of 2 other blocks will remain. Though I acknowledge this move as one designed to address objection concerns – the revisions are another shiny example of how Cork will end up with a reduced quality of development based on petty local outlooks.
The alterations will reduce the architectural consistency of the development – a point An Taisce even made,
😡 The proprietors of the Maxol Petrol Station on the Glasheen Road (currently charging 99.9c a litre for regular unleaded) have lodged an appeal with ABP in protest to the grant of planning awarded by CCC to Tesco Ireland for the development of a petrol station at its Wilton SC premises. Tesco Petrol Stations are currently charging between 94.9 and 96.9 cents a litre at their Killarney Station for Reg. Unleaded). Maxol have cited ‘unfair competition’ as their predominant reason for objection. Greed versus consumer advantage???
🙂 Dermot Coveney of Coveney & Assoc. has issued significant Further Info on behalf of John Mannix for his 7-storey retail, office and apartment development at Washington Street. The amendments to the development include a reduction of 1 floor (to a total of 6 floors – something I personally favour as it has eliminated an unsightly, boxy upper floor area) and a change to the South Main Street/Washington Street corner Bay Window (which looked very well) from pertruding out from the building, to a retraction in line with the rest of the building structure. I don’t agree with the latter decision, as the window offer a dramatic overlook onto Washington Street, and eye-catching addition to the streets architecture. However, most of the changes have been positive.@mickeydocs wrote:
The boardwalk will be the work of Howard Holdings as part of the city quarter and will go ahead.
As usual I’ve got little to add but lots of questions:
Any dates expected on their Albert Quay announcement. When will the redevelopment of city hall begin?
Any links to the recent statements by O’C P in relation to the 6k seater event centre?
Which hotel groups should we expect for Mahon Point and Ballincollig?
Any progress with UCC’s new ICT Centre of Excellence at the old greyhound stadium?In relation to Cornmarket Street there have already been excavation works, and the finds have been excellent so we should expect a protracted dig at this site. I’m all for progress but archaeology is very important and these ventures should be given great respect.
🙂 The Boardwalk at City Quarter is proceeding.
– Albert Quay IT/Office development by Howard Holdings is not expected to receive an announcement until at least March 2005.
– City Hall’s extension and refurbishment has begun, Cleary Doyle have been on-site for a month now. Main extension work is scheduled to begin end of December, early Janurary.
– O’C P links – don’t have any links but a copy of the article can be attained from the Irish Examiner Info Desk on Academy Street,
– Hilton Hotels have signed a lease agreement for the 150-bedroom hotel at Mahon Point. Marriott are understood to have commenced discussions with O’Flynn Construction for their 150-bedroom hotel at BTC (although Lynch and Ramada have also been in talks).
– UCC’s 150,000sq ft, 3-storey IT Centre on the former Greyhound Stadium lands along the Western Road have seen preliminary ground work initiated, but no fixed date for primary construction is yet available.
@phatman wrote:For anyone in the know, are there plans to develop Custom House Quay?Along what lines?
There are 3 plans in tow for Custom House Quay – with talks between the Port of Cork and JW Green ongoing. No particular plan has been championed as of yet. One plan proposes refurbishing, extending and reutilising the existing warehousing on site as a mixed-use entertainment complex.
IAWS are in talks with a number of parties for a substantial commercial (office, retail and business centre) development with hosting suites and a number of cafes and restaurants at R&H Hall along Kennedy Quay – this is only at preplanning and reflects the desire of IAWS for the site, not necessarily the developers, so it could change dramatically. There are no specific designs or projections yet devised – but the plan is to take advantage of the existing R&H Hall structural heights and construct a high-rise development.
I can’t say anymore for the time being,
Miss out? The project was given the same period for submissions as all other projects. I’m delighted no objections were lodged – it represents a number of issues – a.) the developers extensive consultation with CCC and residents has paid off along the first planning hurdle. b.) the significance of the project has been acknowledged by the community. c.) design was satisfactory d.) with relation to mickeydocs post, An Taisce had no reason to object – no overshadowing, no adverse affects on nearby structures, sufficient design. Whereas with Water Street they found the excuse of nearby warehousing, here, there exist no such structures – hence no excuses.
I’ll try and get alternate perspectives up as soon as the EIS has been submitted in the Further Information.
The development does not take away or adversely affect any surrounding buildings or residencies – it provides a fitting gateway to the southern docklands area and further compliments projects at Lapps Quay and Terence McSwiney (Albert) Quay. Its slender enough to reduce visual impediments from Jewstown and its south-western location minimises any negative impact on nearby City Hall when viewed from Lapps Quay and Parnell Place. I think it is a positive statement and addition to Cork – especially in light of many new high-rise proposals along the docklands (Water Street , Horgan’s Quay and Kennedy Quay). The tower I believe is quality – a fitting landmark signalling rebirth and growth at the mouth of the docklands and entrance to Cork city centre.
Here are just some images of the development proposal for Eglinton Street by O’Flynn Construction. Design is by Wilson Architecture. The planning application with CCC is currently in Further Information. Thankfully, no objections were received for this project.
– I’ll have more nice images of other Cork projects up soon.
Was just driving passed the new Clarion Hotel on Lapps Quay, as part of Howard Holdings’ City Quarter development – and I have to say it looks far better in the flesh than it ever did in drawings or CG images. But teak? A number of new developments around Cork are sporting teak on their skin (most notably The Cornfields development in Bishopstown) – it may look good now, but what about the up-keep? The Cornfields isn’t long built, and already the development needs to give its teak a good coat of paint. That aside, the whole Lapps Quay area is looking well.
I may have more details on the other Howard Holdings project for Albert Quay soon, but I’ll get back to you on that when I can.
*UPDATES*
🙂 Cobh Marina Development Co. (Ascon Construction) have resubmitted a revised proposal for their extensive Cobh Marina development with Cobh Town Council. The project has been scaled down after a refusal issued by ABP to their previous application. Up to 135 new residential units, a hotel, moorings, cafes and cther commercial facilities facing out onto a boardwalk etc etc will be constructed if successful.
🙂 John Cleary Developments has submitted an application with CCC to develop 17 business and light industrial units on lands adjoining the North Point Business Park at Kilnap (Blackpool). The development is primarily focused on nurturing start-up businesses and could provide up to 300 new jobs.
🙂 The Board of the Mercy University Hospital at Grenville Place and Henry Street have applied to extend their theatre facilities by an additional floor as part of the Catherine MacCauley Block of the hospital. This will bring the structure to 5 storeys – and is designed by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli Architects – who have also been working on a new 6-storey car-park, urology and minor-surgeries development plan for the newly purchased lands at the North Mall Distellery Fields. Also related to the MUH, Sean Meehan who applied for O.P.P. for a revised 3-deck multi-storey car-park and commercial units facility at Grenville Place (built on stilts over the River Lee – adjacent to MUH) is expecting a planning decision soon. The project could have a significant impact on the River Lee aesthetics at Grenville Place – and is sure to experience major unrest if F.P.P. is sought,
And just a footnote about a prev. post I made – it seems now, that Diesel (the Cork-based men’s fashion store) have secured a short-term lease agreement on the former Clinton Cards premises on Patrick’s Street as long-term negotiations with Monsoon continue between the fashion chain and landlord, Joe Donnelly.
Here’s a drawing of the proposed new ‘super-pub’ for Little Hanover Street to the rear of Galvin’s Off-Licence on Washington Street West. I suppose this is significant in the sense that the bar will be a further addition to an area that is experiencing a notable amount of high-quality, high-aesthetic development. In it’s immediate area Jurys Hotel site is to see a 130m redevelopment by O’Callaghan Properties & Jurys Doyle Hotel Group (Riga Ltd) (see prev. posts), The Kino Arthouse Cinema is currently in planning for a new 4-storey, 3-screen cineplex designed by Dennehy + Dennehy (see prev. posts), Phillisview Properties are nearing completion on a stunning new apartment and commercial development at the junction of Sharman Crawford Bridge & Washington Street West (designed by CMG) and Frank Sheahan is completing a new 6m euro student development just down the street (designed by Jack Coughlan & Assoc., also see prev. post).
@phatman wrote:
Lexington, could you tell me how to actually make images appear in your post, as opposed to a link appearing?cheers
If you have an image on your hard-drive, and want to display it on your post – you first must upload the image to a web-host (try ImageShack.us), then you have to hotlink the image to your post (click the ‘Insert Image’ icon and paste in the image URL).
@Leesider wrote:things are coming along nicely, when do you expect work to begin on Cornmarket St Lexington? This area is in dire need of its imminent makeover!!
The whole street is due for a 5m euro makeover – the Cornmarket Street Action Plan is currently being initiated. It is hoped, work on Cornmarket Street will begin when Oliver Plunkett Street and Grand Parade have their makeovers complete. The proposed new street-scape will be symathetic to pedestrians and ‘marketeers’ alike – in an effort to boost Cornmarket Street as the natural retail extension of Patrick’s Street (badly needed!). Widened foothpaths from the new Shandon Bridge will lead all the way up to Castle Street and Daunt Square – with semi-permanent street stalls put in place to cater for the city market on Saturdays and other event days.
As for the Rockfell Investments development, although Joe Gavin is hopeful the project will get going straight away, Michael O’Donoghue has said that, as part of the conditions of planning, Rockfell must first conduct extensive archaelogical investigations on the site. UCC are being enlisted to assist. Demolition of some on-site warehousing and buildings should begin in December – but main construction isn’t due until mid-Janurary, early Feburary – excavations pending. Not far away, Frinailla Developments Grand Parade Plaza project has been undergoing excavations for almost 7 months now – interestingly, all but 4 apartments in the development have been sold. Hopefully, Rockfell won’t experience the same delays.
corkdood – I’ll get that image up soon. It’s essentially the same image as posted in my last report, but with earmarked sites and proposed developments outlined instead of existing or formally planned developments. I have to clear some of the information with involved parties beforehand, as you can understand.
*UPDATES*😉 Surprising both myself and many others, O’Flynn Construction’s Eglinton Street project, now in Further Info, has received NO objections or observations whatsoever – submission dates have passed.
🙂 I forgot to mention earlier also, Reid’s Furniture Stores will be opening their first Cork store at the new Blackpool Retail Park – joining Argos, Lifestyle Sports, Atlantic Homecare & Reel Cinemas. Reid’s will occupy a 10,000sq ft unit.
🙂 Also, as predicted earlier, Monsoon will be extending into the recently vacated Clinton Cards premises on Patrick’s Street. This will extend the Monsoon premises by 3,000sq ft. Annual rent is set at a record 508,000 euros p.a.
:rolleyes: And at the former Carphone Warehouse premises next to Mango on Patrick’s Street, an O2 Experience Store is to open. The existing O2 store across the street at the Savoy Centre, will be seize operations and converge with the new Experience store. A backlog of retaillers are set to fight it out for this newly vacated premises.
Just an image that may be of interested to some of you. The photo is looking west to east over the city centre of Cork with Cornmarket Street in the foreground, the northern channel of the Lee to the left and Patrick’s Street curving down the centre.
1. The RED outline represents the site of Rockfell Investments Cornmarket Street 6-storey department store and apartment development – recently granted f.p.p.
2. The TURQUOISE outline is of 21 Lavitts Quay office development – nearing completion.
3. East of this, in PURPLE, between 21 Lavitts Quay and the Opera House, is the site of the soon to be developed, Irish Examiner HQ Building (see images in previous post).
4. Crossing the river in LEMON, is the new Shandon Pedestrian Bridge.
5. the YELLOW outline shows the site of Hanranka Ltd/Carrolls Quay Investment Co.’s 85 unit 6-storey apartment development. In mid-construction.
6. WHITE outlines the OSB Camden Court apartment, theatre and super-pub development between 4 and 6 storeys – with extensive roof gardens and playgrounds. Phase 1 is nearing completion. Phase 2 is cited for development early next year. See images in a previous post.
7. The BROWN outline shows Hornibrook Builders Camden Quay apartment and retail development. Between 4 and 6 storeys with 58-apartments and underground car-parking. Nearing completion.
8. The GREEN line shows the site of the existing Dunnes Stores store on Patrick’s Street – the group’s original – which will soon see an application lodge for its redevelopment ~ doubling in-size with a number of ancillary retail units and cafes, at a cost of 30m euros.
9. The NAVY line is of the new extensively redeveloped AIB Retail Flagship for Cork. Construction has begun on this surprisingly large-scale development.
10. Finally the BLUE line, shows the city block housing the current Irish Examiner HQ as well as many other retail units and offices. All this is scheduled to be demolished – save Le Cheateau bar (being preserved for architectural and historical reasons) – and rebuilt in a massive 6-storey 150m euro retail precint and apartments by O’Callaghan Properties. Scheduled for construction by the Bowen Group in December 2006. An application will be lodged in mid to late 2005.
Of course there are many many more developments ongoing or beginning in the area of this image – but I just thought it may be an interesting perspective on some of the more notable projects.
I have an additional image showing sites primed for redevelopment, at preplanning or under negotiation in this area – but I’ll save that unless requested.
*UPDATES*
-> Thomas Crosbie Holdings, owners of the Irish Examiner, Sunday Business Post and Evening Echo etc – have apparently reached an understanding with an as of yet, undisclosed developer, for their new proposed HQ along Lavitts Quay. HOK had said a deal was under consideration – I am informed however, talks have moved on to the next level and that an announcement was due soon. Construction was likely to begin immediately with a completion date due for mid-2006 ~ with the Irish Examiner relocating to the new premises before work on the new O’Callaghan Properties 150m, 6-storey, .6 acre retail and apartment development got underway in December 2006 (planning pending). I’ll let you know more when I hear it.
-> O’Flynn Construction have been asked for Further Information on their Eglinton Street application – as expected. As part of the Further Info, an EIS has been requested. This may see any Further Info received by CCC, not due for at least 2 months. However Frank O’Mahony of Wilson Architecture has said, they were prepared for this and work will begin immediately.
-> CCC have announced their intention to commence a 600m euro housing redevelopment and development scheme. The scheme is partially in response to the lack of socially affordable housing being made available in the Cork city market. CCC are endeavouring to cut the growing waiting lists (touching on 6,000) for such housing. The scheme will consist of new housing, apartments, duplexes and the repurchase and redevelopment of some housing. In addition, the effort will also provide quality facilities for the elderly and for the physically challenged. Clear plans will be released soon.
After taking a more detailled look at the Corbett Bros office and residential development on Copley Street – currently under construction by Coffey Contractors, designed by PRC Architects – the best example I can give those of you who are unfamiliar with the design is; a 5-storey blend of Parchment Square along the Melbourne Road with the apartment development along South Terrace adjacent to the Jewish Centre. I’ll look into getting images for you.
-> With relation to my earlier post on the Mahon Point Trade/Convention Centre – I looked into O’Callaghan Properties announcement yesterday that it was now ‘seriously confident’ their Centre would proceed, with a construction date set for late 2005, planning pending. I can tell you, that O’C P had been working with Project Architects (Dirk Luow) and SOM (Skidmore Owings & Merrill) on the original Trade Centre – and adjustments have been made to the original design in order to cater for a multi-purpose use centre (no longer strictly trade – as once envisioned). The original trade aspect was to be 50:50 funded between the ERDF and O’C P – and was to be linked with the Montreal World Trade Centre – however this has all changed, and O’C P had been withdrawing from the notion based on viability. However, new revisions allow the centre act as a trade centre, convention centre, expo centre and event centre – with many operations working together at the same time if needed. Viability of the centre given its location and proximity to housing – plus sufficient parking and access is up for debate.
Ancillary to the above report, at least 2 developers who had been assessing the proposed expo/event centre site cited by CCC along Penrose Quay and Horgan’s Quay – have said they did not deem the site as being comfortably able to facilitate such a development.A very faint, and quite frankly, unreliable rumour suggested Cosby Homes of the UK had been glancing their eye over Cork’s docklands from a distance – interested in make a move on the Irish market with a Green-Quarter style development. See http://www.green-quarter.co.uk
There may be more to this particular announcement than meets the eye. I’m currently looking into it – I’ll get back to you on it.
