kite
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- Radioactiveman wrote:I see AMICUS have moved into their new premises on Paul St. (the former Gingerbread House property).
CCC have just refused the owners permission to erect a canopy to the front elevation of this listed and protected building.
While I much prefer this lively, European style restaraunt culture to empty and lifeless streets around there]I agree with you that street furniture is getting out of hand in some areas of the city.
Outside the Washington Pub next door to the Court House as another example.CCC regulations state that;
Tables and chairs shall not be placed on footpaths without the licensing permission of CCC
Tables, chairs or signs are not to be placed in a manner or area which could cause obstruction to pedestrians, in particular the visually or mobility impaired.
The area shall be serviced and swept clean during the day and washed and swept at the end of each day.
Advertising signs are not to be placed on footpaths without the prior consent of CCC.@orion wrote:
News around town is that Joe O’Donavan is about to lodge for permission to build a feature building at Wilton Centre. It will be 12 stories high with some retail linking to the existing centre but mostly made up of apartments. Now Jerry “Cllr Buttimer” and the rest of his anti high rise can really get their knickers in a twist, and let the games begin.Hope for Wilton and Bishopstown this get approval.
😮 Jerry “CSD supporter” Buttimer after 5 Minutes in city council and still wet behind the ears now proposes that Cork City Council withdraw the 10 million funding for Green Bus routes in the city as they do not work. This according to the councilor willing to jump on any 3 wheeled bandwagon to get his name in the papers, plus
all this guff from a councilor that cribbed to the City Manager on 25th April 2005 about the temporary closure of the No.8 Green Route outside the CUH to allow for the realignment of a kerb for safety reasons.
We really do get a “special” type of local representative here in Cork? :rolleyes:@Pug wrote:
what did come out of that meeting? – those councillor proposals are so piecemeal and ambiguous its not funny. Why dont they propose items such as “that this council not grant any developments in designated suburbs without a roads and public transport assessment proving that it will not add to congestion” – they cant just ad hoc decide they dont like anything over 3 storeys – that just ADDS to urban sprawl, congestion, strain on public transport etc – its lucky they have no power
After coming out of committee the proposals go to a full Council meeting for a vote. Like you said, it is lucky that councillors have no power, but behind the scenes they can make life difficult for officals and planners.
😎 THE Government was urged last night to introduce measures in the December Budget to help kickstart the multi-billion redevelopment of Cork’s Docklands.
Eoin English’s full story in today’s Irish Examiner on…
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=17627-qqqx=1.aspBallinloughLass wrote:Far from ‘perfect sense’ this makes no sense whatsoever. If the developer gets permission to demolish Lovett’s restaurant then it is an absolute certainty that Lovett’s will be demolished and an apartment block put there in its place. It would make no economic sense not to – developers are in the business of making money.:confused: BallinloughLass, I was referring to post 465 by Kenzo Tange where it is stated that Lane Homes are NOT now to demolish Lovett’s, but are to convert the existing building into apartments.
I don’t now what way you read my posts, but I agree with you fully in that my argument is that suburbs of the city are not designed for apartments, BUT if they are to be allowed they need to be planned in a proper way, green areas, parking, public transport etc. This is not the case at the moment with the city planners pandering to vested interests (developers) who are not to blame for trying to maximize profits.
If CCC continue to promote apartment living in ALL parts of our city (other than the docklands where it will “should ?†work) they need to address these issues otherwise it will be a bigger failure than the living over the shop joke (LOTS)
This type of piecemeal planning by City Manager, Joe Gavin has led us to the point where an anti high rise lobby group is dictating the working of CCC. 😡A number of important issues are due to come back from the Planning and Development Strategic Policy Committee meeting today.
I intend to ring the mentioned Councillors this morning to make my views known to them and to try and counteract the CSD pressure for a height cap before the vote is put before CCC for a vote. Anyone who feels strongly on these issues may consider doing likewise?Cllr M.Shields (FF) proposal;
‘That this City Council would enact a Material Contravention to Cork City Development Plan 2004 – 2009 to the effect that all Planning Applications for Residential Apartments of over 3 storeys high would be deemed inappropriate and contrary to good planning.’Cllr’s. Bermingham and Buttimer (FG) proposal;
‘That Cork City Council would alter its City Development Plan 2004 to include the wording of the City Manager as stated at Council Meeting of 27/03/06 re “the Building of Apartments 3 storeys in layout within established residential community will not receive Planning Permission from Cork City Council in the interest of good and proper planning and development and having regard to the provisions of the current City Development Plan.â€Cllr. S. Martin (FF) proposal;
(a)That there be an amendment to the Cork City Development Plan to the effect that residential/family style properties be safeguarded or ring fenced and the concept of purchasing residential houses knocking them and allowing multistory development in their place be immediately stopped. This is being driven by pure greed and is having a medium to long term detrimental effect on the living environment as we have come to know it.
(b) That Council takes a stance in relation to the selling of existing petrol stations where owners are simply cashing in on sites with no regard to providing services to the public at large.’The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (NIAH) survey to Cork City Council identifies just over 2000 structures in and around the City Centre, which have been recommended for designation as Protected Structures by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage & Local Government of which approximately 500 are already included in the Record of Protected Structures (the RPS)
The NIAH inventory of Cork City identified a total of 38 post boxes within the city which have been recommended by the Minister for addition to the Record of Protected Structures. A survey has been carried out and it was found that 36 of these still survive, underlining the need for the protection of these remaining historic streetscape features. Description:
These post boxes are of two types, either wall-mounted boxes with flat fronts, or freestanding pillar boxes. They are made of cast iron and date from various eras. Many carry royal insignia on their fronts which can be used to date them as follows:
VR-Victoria Regina-c. 1859-1901.
ER VII – Edward Rex VII – 1901-1910.
GR-George Rex-1910-20.
Others carry early Irish state insignia such as the following:
SE – Saorstat Eireann – c. 1930
P & T – Posts and Telegraphs – c. 1950.
An unusual post box has both an ER to its letter-box cover and an SE to its door.Appraisal
These post boxes have been assessed as having value as functional industrial design and are significant as a group. Not only do they demonstrate the range of changes in the decorative detail of cast-iron post boxes from Victorian times to the latter part of the twentieth century, they also chart the political changes in the governance of the country and make a distinctive contribution to the character of older urban areas. They have been accorded ‘Architectural’, ‘Artistic’, ‘Social’ and ‘Technical’ special interest in accordance with the Planning and Development Act 2000.@KenzoTange wrote:
The developer has decided not to demolish Lovett’s but to convert the building into apartments.
The longterm property market looks risky for all developers at the moment as alot of apartment developments are proving difficult to sell – nervous investors – and converted apartments can be brought to the market far more quickly.
😎 Thanks for the update, this makes perfect sense as far as I am concerned. Converting an old building like Lovett’s into apartments should provide a first class development that should attract a price premium for Lane homes
@jungle wrote:
Answer me this question then.
How are the people who would live here supposed to get to where they work/where they shop etc.?
The best that you can say for this location is that it is on the number 10 and number 19 bus routes, but these are already overflowing at rush hour.
Alternatively, you could put them in cars, but the local road network is already congested (For fun, try driving down Skehard Rd between 8 and 9 in the morning).
We have several hundred acres of redundant brownfield land in the Docklands and large underused sites in central areas (look at Anglesea St for example).
We also have a proposed suburban rail network that will serve lots of bungalows. Near Little Island and Glounthaune stations could support hundreds of apartments.
But, if we have substantial development of suburban apartment complexes, where is the incentive to develop these?
I would be far happier to see 20 or 30 storey development in the Docklands than suburbs rising to a general 3 to 4 storeys.
In my case Lovett’s is not a NIMBY issue at all. My parents live between the Douglas and South Douglas Roads, which aren’t a million miles away, but too far to be affected. I haven’t lived anywhere near the area since the late 90s.
I accept your point about profitability for developers, but that is why we have a planning system. Developers would always try to maximise their profits.
jungle,I agree fully that the docklands is the best place for skyscrapers and should be planned properly with green amenity areas, light rail or PROPER green bus lanes. CCC’s record in proper planning in the city is pitiful to say the least.
Douglas is no different to any other suburb in the city in that it has not been designed to accept in density terms high rise / high density buildings.
The city as a whole has to live with the flawed City Development Plan 2004-2009 that our useless councilors voted in, a plan that allows planning on the basis of “green bus routes†that are nothing more than a line on a map (not on a road) and then washes its hands of responsibility for traffic etc, this is a sick joke.
The CDP states that Green Bus Routes “shall be a dedicated traffic lane where feasibleâ€, otherwise an imaginary lane in the planners head will suffice!!
The city has only 2 options, carry on as we are going and accept apartments in every suburb, or bin the City Development Plan. Which option would be best?
Welcome to planning in Cork according to Joe Gavin😎 Port of Cork will be inviting proposals soon for what their auctioneers quite rightly describe as the best site in Cork, the Bonded Warehouses on Custom House Quay.
Hopefully POC will not be allowed hold the city to ransom for relocation payment for too long as this Historic, Listed building is in a pitiful state from years of neglect.
What is the point of having a Heritage Officer or a Derelict Site Act if one of the finest buildings in the City is allowed fall into the river?:mad:
At least it was not burnt down (by vandals) yet.😎 Mark Kelleher’s 3G group have lodged plans for a five storey multi million euro medical facility over basement car park for the former Esso site on the Bishopstown Road.
The site failed to sell on the open market last year hence the plans by the Kelleher’s to develop this site themselves.@KenzoTange wrote:
Heard today that plans to demolish Lovetts to replace by four-storey apartment block have been panned. Not sure if it was the threat of ‘revolution on the strreets’ or the prospect of empty apartments, or combination of both, which prompted the change of mind.
The property market has dampened considerably in recent weeks
It is certainly true that the NIMBY’s are out in full force again in the Douglas, Mahon, Blackrock area of the city objecting to apartments on the site of the Lovett’s Restaurant, Springville House and Manakin.
Councillor Shannon has thrown his rattle out of the playpen jumped on his moral high horse to join the anti high rise crew of CCC (high rise = 3 storeys !!)
I am open to correction Kenzo Tange but my understanding is that the decision due date has been extended for 6 months in the case of Springville House (normal enough practice), and the other two are proceeding as normal??😉 Manus O’Callaghan Communications, Public Consultation Managers to the Presentation Brothers are lobbying the support of Councillors to help get permission from CCC to build housing on approx 7.5 acres of land that also contain the sports pitches on the Presentation Sports field on Magazine Road / Dennehy’s Cross.
The Presentation Brothers will “cede control of the “public (??) walkway and a pocket park to the City Council” if successful in this rezoning.
The Brothers believe that the surplus lands outside the playing area of the pitches should be identified as a development opportunity site for a number of reasons including the “unhealthy demographic of population decline and an ageing population”.Today’s Irish Examiner has an online poll to vote for the most beautiful and the ugliest buildings in Cork http://www.irishexaminer.com pick 1 – 10, 1=ugly 10=beautiful for;
A. Glucksman Gallery
B. Victoria Mills
C. CIT student centre
D. Cork Airport
E. City Quarter
F. County Hall
G. North Main Street car park
H. Crawford Gallery extention
I. Bon Secours care village
J. Mahon Point SC@mhenness wrote:
Just curious as to where you came across this information? Are these facts or just generally accepted as being the case? I thought that initial part of your comment related only to houses in Dublin failing to sell at auction?
It was reported on the Pat Kenny Show last week, 80% sale failures at auction in Dublin, 65-70% and rising in the country.
I do of course accept that auctions in Dublin are much more common than in Cork, but given that “normal” buyers (first timers etc) use private treaty sales rather than auction I think it follows that those in the know i.e. auction buyers are deserting the market.:rolleyes: Anyone feel that the rising cost to developers in the city by way of development levies, stamp duty, and the stealth cost of Part 5 contributions may strangle and kill the “Golden Goose†that is keeping the Celtic Tiger alive?
Under Part 5 CCC received 0 euro and 0 units in 2003, 390,728 euro and 0 units in 2004, and 1,175,200 euro and 83 units in 2005.
Development levies for the same period were, 2003 approx 3 million, 2004 approx 6 million, and 2005 approx 11 million.
With most houses now failing to sell at auction and many apartments lying idle since built you would wonder at what level will developers put their money in less volatile investments?@Seanselon wrote:
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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House
😮 Even the hound looks depressed at this wanton act of vandalism.
I would love to post photographs (can’t figure how to do it yet) of the historic paving outside Cork City Hall being ripped up and dumped to allow for cheap, glassy, Spanish or Chinese slabs laid to match the junk laid in Patrick Street at the behest of our City Manager, Joe Gavin (remember him Galway?) 😮🙂 Today’s announcement by Minister Martin of European funding for the Cork Docklands Development will no doubt be welcomed by City Manager Joe Gavin who has endured years of foot dragging by the Cork Mafia, vested interests, uninterested city “fathers” (councilors) and the Munster Agricultural Society thus delaying his ambitious plans for this vital development for the city.
Any other City Manager in the past 20 years would have washed their hands of this development, went for a pint in the Market Bar, drew his 3 grand per week salary, and declared a curse on all their houses.
Love him, or hate him, you have to admit that Mr. Gavin has balls (and neck!!)p.s. his performance related pay bonus may have something to do with this? (11 million in development levies last year alone for CCC??)
@orion wrote:
THOMOND PARK
In responce to your suggestion that JoeO’Donovan and Wilton Shopping centre are worst off over Primark(Penny’s) moving in rather than M&S.Firstly M&S is an upmarket dept style retailer who only attract a certain higher end customer and this would limit Wilton’s appeal to the much large market that Primark represent.Given that Primark have the largest foot fall of any retailer on Patricks Street and foot fall is related to rents ,now Joe O’Donavan has a stronger tenant paying a higher rent (over the €15 sqft that M&S wanted) which he can use to rise the profile and yield on his centre.:rolleyes: Any truth in the rumour that JO’D was looking for Michael Guiney or the Pound shop to increase the so called “Foot Fall”?
This (his) plan was to redevelop the Wilton Cenrte in the long therm..The City Manager’s answer to CCC last night more or less confirmed as much, “The Wilton Centre is zoned for commercial and residential development”:pThomond Park wrote:KiteThanks for this update]
😉 “Some” would say that M&S would have been direct competition for Mr.O’Donovan’s backers, Penneys on the other hand (if they move in) would not, non food products etc.
Lex mentioned when JO’D and Howard Holdings bought the Wilton Centre that plans may be afoot for a 10 storey landmark building, redevelopment of the existing store, plus a multi storey car park between the existing store and the Wilton Church. This would still be the preferred plan so it would seem?
