kefu
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kefu
ParticipantThere was an interesting tidbit in the Irish Times today saying that planning is being sought for a seven-storey 99-bed hotel on a site at Ormond Quay, Charles St West and Ormond Square.
This derelict site has been a real sore point for the City Council for years as it’s an obvious blackspot, which is all-too visible from the City Manager’s balcony.
Anyway, good to see something is finally happening. It certainly has the space to do something really daring. I can’t see that happening but it’s one of those sites where anything would be better than what’s there.
The developers are Pierse Contracting if anyone did have access to the models/plans.kefu
ParticipantAn absolute joke from every point of view.
Not only, do you have loads of traffic coming from the quays and O’Connell Street, you also have other double decker buses turning left from the contraflow lane on Eden Quay.
There’s an interesting thread here on the type of chaos it can cause: http://p201.ezboard.com/fbustravelirelandfrm8.showMessageRange?topicID=859.topic&start=21&stop=35
You would have to question Dublin City Council’s decision on this especially considering what happened on Wellington Quay.
It’s also offensive from a purely visual point of view in having a bus stop with a block of concrete as its base on the city’s most important bridge.kefu
ParticipantThe unemployment rate was 4.3% last year: Ref: http://www.indexmundi.com/ireland/unemployment_rate.html
There are actually 13,000 heroin addicts in Dublin but on the basis that not all of them are in the city centre (although it often seems like that) I rounded the figure down. Ref: http://www.finegael.ie/fine-gael-news.cfm/NewsID/22150/action/detail/year/2005/month/7/level/page/aid/186/
No exact figures are available for unfilled jobs but 50,000 isn’t even the tip of the iceberg.
I have every sympathy for an unemployed person in the West of Ireland or along the Border where there may not actually be any jobs but there is little excuse for being jobless in Dublin.
“In 2000, it was estimated that there were 60,000 unfilled jobs in the Irish economy and that Ireland needed to attract 270,000 employees into the workforce over the next six years to sustain even modest levels of economic growth.” Ref: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inimr-ri.nsf/en/gr107272e.htmlkefu
ParticipantCouldn’t agree more, any country with four per cent unemployment while 50,000 jobs are unfilled is highly dysfunctional.
When you have the best part of 10,000 junkies trudging around the streets on any given day, you are going to get a lot of antisocial behaviour.kefu
ParticipantI’m not even sure the Boardwalk should extend down the length of Ormond Quay. The less populated each section becomes, the more unsavoury the characters frequenting it.
The amount of anti-social activity they attract is beyond belief.
On two separate occasions in the last fortnight, I have seen people urinating through the railings during the afternoon.
Every bum and junkie congregates on Eden Quay and people skulling cans and bottles of beer are more common than coffee drinkers.
The Ormond Quay extension would become a/ a waiting room for gougers waiting for a court apperance and b/ outdoor smoking areas for the people who spend all night and morning drinking in the early houses along the quays and Chancery Street.kefu
ParticipantThe original plan was that they wouldn’t fix the fingers.
kefu
ParticipantThat seems to be part of what’s planned. They are phasing out the on-street parking along the quays, almost all of which is around that Four Courts area. It will leave a space that is the best part of four metres wide when you include the existing pavement. I really don’t see how the balustrade would not be very seriously affected by a boardwalk.
For a start, you would have to remove two chunks and considering it makes a perfect rectangle of two bridges and two quays, it would at the very least damage that continuity.
The balustrade would make a very imperfect barrier between a boardwalk and a pavement as when you looked through it from the street, all you would be seeing is the back of a load of seats and probably a lot of rubbish shoved in under.kefu
ParticipantYou would have to remove the balustrade that runs along the quay walls and it’s probably the most beautiful part of the quays in Dublin.
They’re almost certainly protected and it would mean destroying two large chunks of it and then having seats along the length of it, which wouldn’t work either.
I’m nearly sure this feature is on both sides of the River so switching sides would not help.
This is what the quay wall looks like. I think/hope balustrade is the right word:
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/northcity/quays/inns/4courts_lge.htmlkefu
ParticipantT.Scott – if you want to invest in a digital camera and send it back to Dublin. I’ll take pictures of whatever buildings/building sites you want. And also considering your abiding interest in Dublin, I’m sure you’re aware that the planning/building process does not take six months in this country so things haven’t actually moved on since the aforementioned threads and South King Street is as it was.
kefu
ParticipantIn America, they send minor criminal offenders out on litter duty and cut their sentences in return.
If you had a purely voluntary system like that here, it might be something that could be looked at.
Of course, the usual suspects would be up-in-arms at the notion.kefu
ParticipantI don’t believe it’s a religious thing. Like anything, you would find that 95 per cent of litter is caused by 5 per cent of the population. And that five per cent is responsible for most of the major social problems we have in this country.
A bigger issue is the chronic culture of dependency we have allowed to develop in Ireland, where people just assume somebody else should pick up after them be it in terms of social welfare, housing, litter etc.
The City Council spends vast amounts of money on cleaning. When I lived in town, if you were up at seven am – the city started the day off spotless.kefu
ParticipantThis is more great work by Dublin City Council.
Get them out of there before Joe Duffy gets a sniff of it.
Ciaran Cuffe and the Green Party will have to flog off their handcuffs.
For sale: one set of high-minded handcuffs, never used.kefu
ParticipantTaxing gum is, as far as I’m concerned, a complete no-brainer. There’s absolutely no excuse or reason not to do it.
We have a terrible problem with gum destroying streets, in a way that no other form of rubbish does.
It’s particularly expensive to remove and particularly unsightly … and so the polluter should pay.
Ten cent on each pack won’t stop anybody buying it but it will go a long way to removing it off the streets.
I personally would go further and put a litter surcharge on fast food restaurants and cigarettes.
It’s all well and good McDonalds, Burger King, Wrigleys, Philip Morris, local chipper etc saying it’s not their fault but their products/premises are a blight right around the country.
I have no sympathy for any of them as all are making incredible amounts of money providing products that have no useful purpose and in most cases negative effects.kefu
ParticipantJim G – I simply can not see a situation where you will be able to get a tram from Heuston to Sandyford without turning Lower O’Connell Street into a giant on-street tram terminus/interchange.
How do you propose running the two lines into each other in such a way that these 1482 options are a possibility?
When the government talks about a link, they are talking about running the lines close together. You will still have to get off the Tallaght tram and get on another one.
Then again, I could be wrong – but I’ve yet to see any workable proposal.
It’s also incredibly disingenuous to even utilise this 1,482 figure as it presumably includes hundreds of one or two-stop journeys. For instance:- Connolly to Busarus and Busarus to Connolly.
I would also again pose the question of how complicated the routings on two joined Luas lines can be when Connex have been unable to run the proposed ‘shorts’ from Heuston to Connolly due to congestion.
Tram jams are a regular feature at rush hour in the Abbey Street/Gardiner Street area already.
The system is already running near full capacity and complex routings won’t be logistically possible.kefu
ParticipantJust in case you thought I was spoofing:
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/news_archive/green_party_urges_government_to_join_the_dots_as_new_luas_red_line_opens
If the Green Party says E100 million, I can only imagine what the Railway Procurement Agency will be saying and there is no question of a contribution from local businesses a la Cherrywood/Citywest extensions.
Another point completely ignored here is whether we want another three years with the city centre looking like a bomb has hit it.kefu
Participantjimg wrote:This seems to form the real basis of Kefu and Grahams opposition to the idea. You must have a very narrow view of what sort of people the city centre should accomodate! Imagine trying to do that distance with children in tow or with three bags of groceries or shopping. Add a bit of Irish weather to the mental picture – a damp rainy day in November or a freezing gale in March. Would you just suggest that an elderly frail person who isn’t the fittest, walk that distance? What about if you’re a tourist and have a load of luggage? I believe there is plenty utility in linking the lines and in fact linking them in fact creates synergy]I sympathise with all of what you have written above.
However, I don’t think any of these factors could ever justify spending the E100 million that [even the Green Party Join the Dots campaign admitted this] it would cost.
A dedicated Luas-to-Luas bus service with bus only lanes in both directions would use up the same amount of road space and cost the tiniest tiny fraction of that E100m figure
Elderly, frail persons have free travel in this country and you won’t find too many of them complaining about the Luas lines not joining.
I would also question how many tourists with heavy luggage are actually trying to travel from Ranelagh/Sandyford to Tallaght or Heuston/Connolly. It is not like Luas exists in a vacuum either. There are good bus services in this city that serve many of these routes quite exactly.kefu
ParticipantI really don’t see how it would be possible to actually link the two lines unless the St Stephen’s Green line merges with the Tallaght line at Connolly/Point Depot at some point.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to have two tram line running at right angles to another. Would we for instance have one tram from Sandyford to Heuston, then the next from Sandyford to the Point, then one from Tallaght to St Stephen’s Green.
Logistically, I don’t see how the network as it stands could support it when they can hardly get the full complement of trams out on the Tallaght line because of congestion.
I totally agree with Graham about this.
The whole thing has taken on the classic mantle of the “pet project” and in terms of its cost benefit, it just won’t add up.
They’ll build it and then find that people are actually unwilling to pay E1.30 to go from O’Connell Street to St Stephen’s Green.
I reckon the walk between OCS and the Green takes at most twenty minutes.
On a purely practical basis, who will queue for three minutes to buy a ticket, then wait another three minutes for a tram that then takes six or seven minutes to travel between the two places.
None of this, however, will dent support for this project because it’s one of those things politically, which sounds like it makes perfect sense when it makes no sense at all.kefu
ParticipantHow do you merge two railway lines when they’re running at right angles to each other though?
When they talk about a Luas link, do they really mean putting the lines sufficiently close together that you can hop off one tram and get on another?kefu
ParticipantUnfortunately, defamation involves proving that your name was lowered in the minds of right-thinking people.
And most right-thinking people believe that the so-called Carrickminders and the English dirtbirds who occupied the trees around the Glen of the Downs are about the lowest form of pondlife in the country.kefu
ParticipantYet the London Plane trees on O’Connell Street were not protected so I would say it’s very unusual for them to be so listed.
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