jungle
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Regardless of the environmental and visual impact of putting a railway line up the South Channel, surely it would be cheaper to just cut and cover along Washington St if you wanted to separate from traffic. You’d also get a nice straight run rather than having to deal with all the bends around Crosse’s Green.
Still at least someone is thinking about potential solutions. Since, we now have the Green Party and Cork Chamber of Commerce in favour of light rail in the city, maybe it’s time to ask Fine Gael and Labour their positions. Given that there’s an election coming up, it would be nice to see a bit of pressure on the government (and City Council for that matter).
@DubinCork wrote:
Our national airline does not fly from the second city to our capital.
Is Ryanair an option ?
Another example how Cork loses out be it North Ring road,Macroom By-pass,Sarsfield & Bandon road roundabouts,New Buses or feasibility for light rail,Airport Debt.Watching Eco Eye with Duncan Stewert the whole programme was about Dublin as usual and 5 seconds on Cork & Galway.Farcical.
Transport 21 does not deliver for Cork.
Since privatisation, Aer Lingus isn’t the national airline, their role is to make a profit.
In fact, their only internal route is Dublin-Shannon and this is just expeiency on their part because the stopover forces them to operate aircraft with otherwise empty seats.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Amsterdam was not bad but Aer Lingus connections to Cork were never at the right time.
They have a flight that arrives in Amsterdam at 9am. Aside from the immediate return flight, there’s also one back at 8:30pm four days a week. Short of multiple daily flights, you’re not going to get much better than that for connections.
Driving from Amsterdam, you could make Duesseldorf by midday (Give it an hour longer by train). Coming back, you could leave around 4:30 and make the evening flight. A bit short for a day-trip, but I can’t imagine connecting flights doing significantly better, even if their Duesseldorf-Dublin was earlier.
I’d agree that we need more direct flights to Germany. Unfortunately, Ryanair’s 737-800s and Aer Lingus’ A320s are too big and won’t be filled, while Aer Arann’s ATRs don’t really have the range. It would be nice to see an operator at the airport that used Fokker 100s or Embraer 195s, so that those routes that could support maybe 80-100 passengers could be given a chance.
It’s not as though Dublin is the only place you can connect when flying into Cork. Heathrow is obviously a possibility and you could always fly Cork-Amsterdam direct and hire a car. It would probably turn out faster than hanging round airports waiting for connections.
The one thing that is annoying with the connection in Dublin is that now that it’s Aer Arann and Ryanair on the route, you don’t get checked through.
BTW Aer Lingus have now started using the only airbridge at Cork Airport.
I think I’m beginning to see the beginnings of a compromise. I agree that the various councils don’t have enough ambition for Cork. You say that Light Rail isn’t a possibility and sadly the main reason that this is so is because there is nobody in the City or County Council who is pushing it. I suspect that the government might be relatively sympathetic if a strong proposal could be put in place.
As regards attractions in the city, I think that’s where my tourist pass idea has merit. Let people spend E15, but give them free use of public transport and reduced entry to attractions. Then, you start building up the number of tourists and other schemes become more viable. The biggest tragedy is that we aren’t making enough of what we have.
@DubinCork wrote:
Central Government Lobbying,Private Enterprise,Cork Chamber of Commerce businesses when they realise that everyone in Cork is off to Killarney / Dublin / Thomond / London for concerts,sports events and shopping etc.As is currently the case.
Central Government will not fund it. It won’t pass any form of cost-benefit analysis. Private Enterprise will not fund it. It won’t be profitable.
I fail to see how a cable car up Patrick’s Hill will encourage people to stay in the city for concerts, sports, events and shopping. Now, if you’d suggested spending the money on a multi-discipline sports stadium or events centre, that is more likely to see government, if not private funding.
@DubinCork wrote:
You are assuming a lot about a cable car for 30m or a funicular railway which BTW were built all over Europe 100+ years ago – its not a new science.Cork actually had an extensive tram system which right now are being re-integrated in U.S. Cities yes the car dependent U.S. is re-introducing trolly busses ah la San Francisco.
Even Houston Texas has a Luas line which is being expanded.LUAS cost €32m per km. That was using an established technology at a time when construction costs were lower. While the technology is substantially differentthe whole cost of laying tracks is there. You also need to put in place a winching mechanism. If anything, I’d say it was an underestimate.
Again, you’re broadening the issue. I’ve often posted in favour of Light Rail for Cork. I’ve suggested a number of alignments. But a light rail system is more obviously justifiable in terms of its benefits to the city.
@DubinCork wrote:
Is it open Sundays even along with the Museum in Fitzgerald Park ? Is it likely to attract visitors used to The Tate Modern,Musee De Orsee,The Baltic Mills,Albert Dock,Collins Barracks,Royal Hospital ? Hardly.
It’s closed on Sunday, but that can be changed. Realistically, you’re not going to be able to compete with the Tate Modern or the Musee D’Orsay. Even the last places on your list don’t do this. What I suggested was giving a focus towards building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years. It’s an achievable ambition and would attract in a number of visitors from around Ireland if properly marketed.
@DubinCork wrote:
Exactly most of the county of Corka attractions are outside the city – We are talking abot the city to keep tourists enjoying City atractiojns,pubs,restaurants,shops,hotels,newsagen ts etc. not send the money West ?
Cork has plenty of attractions in limited range of the city. What the city needs to do is make sure it can be a base for people who want to see these while on a short break. People will be able to go to Blarney, Midleton or Cobh, but will base themselves in the city and use the city’s hotels and restaurants. Nobody is going to go on a weekend break to Midleton or Blarney. Cork doesn’t attract many. Put the whole lot into a single package and you have a product you can push.
@DubinCork wrote:
Cork needs attractions,ideas,innovation,excitement not buses and apartments.
That depends on whether you think that the city should cater to its inhabitants or tourists first.
@DubinCork wrote:
Sensible ? Would Columbus have found America if someone said it was’nt sensible ? Cork is being left behind and no one here does anything about it – its happening slowly and surely.Visit Dublin some weekend,it has the facilities and is getting better facilities ALL the time in every field.Everey weekend ther is something on worth doing be it sport music or theatre etc.
Pie in the sky ? Was’nt The Eiffel Tower Pie in the sky ? The space needle Seattle ? The Astrodome Houston ?
The Pompodou Centre Paris ? The Funkturm Berlin ? London Eye ?Cork has massive potential but zero ambition on a european scale not to mention a world scale.
This is an argument about the cable-car, not all potential projects in Cork. Each one has to be assessed on its merits The money doesn’t come from nowhere, it has to be justified. Have a look at the history of Montreal in the 70s and 80s if you want to see a city that went for a number of grand projects and nearly destroyed itself in the process. There is a limited pot at Central Government level. What Cork needs to do is work out how to get its just share. Proposing projects that won’t get through CBA is not the way to do this.
@DubinCork wrote:
With this kind of attitude nothing will ever developed to attract tourists or locals to the second city which lags so far behind other tourist centres,Killarney,Galway & Dublin.
Knock gets U.S.flights and Cork loses its U.K. ferry ?
Cork has a fantastic new terminal with fewer and fewer flights and a shorter runway than Knock in the middle of nowhere.Where is the political will in Cork for the loss of BUPA,Motorola etc.Limerick get Thomond,Dublin and Belfast get IKEA sorry Dublin get everything and the attendant problems afterwards.Cork does not have even a concert conference venue whilst Killarney has the NEC.Cork needs to wake up.
Put a great park like Park Guell in Barcelona up there ?A viewing tower ? A big wheel jeebus anything to get interest in the city which I find hard to sell to visitors as you could spend maximum a day seeing everything.
Cork needs more great ideas not the usual “Can’t because” attitude.As for doing up the Crawford forget it sell it for retail or Hotel use and build a proper modern gallery in the docklands.Its a no brainer.Cork has a vision centre but NO vision.
Where is the money going to come from?
I’m assuming that a cable car is going to cost in the region of E30m to construct and suggesting it could be better used elsewhere.
You want to spend it on tourism? Try making the Crawford Art Gallery something that people will come to from around Ireland to see.
You want to spend it on the city’s transport infrastructure? Giving the city a workable bus service is a bit more meaningful than spending on something that will transport maybe 100 people per hour up Patrick’s Hill.
Cork has serious trouble getting any money to invest in the city or county, what we can’t afford to do is squander it on projects that are of limited benefit to the city.
You really want to attract tourists to Cork? Here’s a suggestion. Many of the city’s attractions actually lie in towns that are a short distance outside – Blarney Castle, Midleton Distillery, Cobh Heritage Centre, Ballincollig Powder Mills. How about a tourist card that gives people 3 day usage of public transport to visit these places and a reduction on entry when they’re there. It works in Helsinki and Madrid, no reason it can’t be part of the Cork package. It might do a bit more to attract inbound tourists than a cable car, which would probably be unknown outside Ireland anyway,
I don’t lack vision for what can be achieved in Cork, but I do demand that we are sensible in our approach to our vision. Pie in the sky projects will never attract central government funding because they’ll fail on the cost-benefit analysis. Let’s try to get money that we actually have a hope of receiving.
I’m sure someone’s thrown that out as an idea every year since I was a kid. The worst thing is you hear people throwing around phrases about it attracting tourists. No tourist is going to come to go on a cable car. Spend the substantial amount it would cost turning the Crawfoed into the best gallery for contemporary Irish art and you may attract tourists (and at worst would have saleable assets if it didn’t work), but building a cable car to attract tourists?
Realistically,
- There aren’t enough tourists in the city to justify it
- There aren’t enough people living on top of the hill to justify it
- There aren’t enough reasons to go to the top of the hill to justify it
Maybe, if a lot of the land around Collins Barracks was turned to apartments, but even then you can add to that list the fact that the residents of the hill would justifiably object to a cable car outside their front doors and that it would still be unnecessary.
Out of interest, how much does a cable car system cost to install? I have a suspicion that it would be enough to replace the entire city bus fleet and possibly buy enough extra buses to double services. If this is the best our politicians can come up with, God help us…
I’m not sure how Globespan are operating those flights. As far as I can see, the aviation bilateral between Ireland and the US allows for
-As many flights as you like from Shannon, provided you are a US or Irish airline and you are flying to one of the designated US gateways (except Charters)
-As many flights as you like from Dublin, provided you are a US or Irish airline and you are flying to one of the designated US gateways and you have one flight into Shannon for every one into Dublin (except Charters)
-Charter flights from Cork and Knock to the US on an Irish airlineConsidering Globespan aren’t an Irish airline (and not even a US one, it would appear to be a breach of this).
Then again, I don’t begrudge Knock the flights, so as annoying as the bilateral is, it’s probably best not to make a fuss about it.
I’m not sure Globespan are the sort of operator Cork is looking for anyway. It would hopefully be a business as well as leisure route. As such a US airline that offers interlining etc. would be a better bet. When we are rid of the cursed bilteral, I’d put my money on Continental being the airline to launch Cork-US flights.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Ah so! Then we have an equivalent to a frost-free highway in tropical Africa!! Dare I say a white elephant!!
I think that remains to be seen. From next summer, Central Wings will have 10 flights a week into Cork with rumours of further expansion to come. So, we’d be looking at 14 scheduled flights.
Then a number of charter operators would also use the airbridge.
It is also necessary (although multiple airbridges is arguable necessary) if they are trying to attract a transatlantic operator.
The real key is to get Aer Lingus to start using it.
At the moment, the charge to use the airbridge is 66% higher than in Dublin. Airport management need to ask themselves whether the extra revenue obtained by getting Aer Lingus to use it would be worth dropping the price. Considering Aer Lingus are operating 12 flights a day* into Cork, the small amount of revenue lost from other airlines makes this a no-brainer for me.
*Although it is worth remembering that a number of these arrive/depart at similar times, so they couldn’t all use the same airbridge.
@A-ha wrote:
It would be money better spent I agree. Where would they be getting the money from in the first place? I believe there is still the matter of who’s going to pay the €200 million.
I may be wrong on this, but I think the control tower would be financed by the IAA rather than the airport
@Praxiteles wrote:
Is there any chance of someone at Cork Airport figuring out how to use the airbridges so that unfortunate passengers can disembrak from or board a plane without having to climb or descend five flights of stairs?
Those idle air bridges standing uselessly there on the apron remind me of certain countries in the farther reaches of the Limpopo that built frost-free highways!!
Airbridge. There’s only one there, the others are just the stumps of airbridges.
At the moment Centralwings and Malev are using it. Aer Lingus are in dispute with the airport over the cost. Most of the other airlines either can’t use it (e.g. Aer Arann) or won’t use it regardless of the cost (e.g. Ryanair).
@Pug wrote:
i thought the airport was designed for 3million passengers? well, they hit that last week so roll on the summer to see how it will cope!
The terminal itself will cope OK. The pinch point will potentially be at the gates i.e. getting people from the departures lounge to their aircraft.
@Pug wrote:
absolutely correct. Traffic in douglas needs big change and has been that way for years – surely putting traffic lights in at the roundabout by the shell garage is an obvious one? shouldnt be any need then for a garda to be wasting their time having to direct traffic at the well road juntion then
And getting rid of parking between the Shell Garage and the former TSB premises so that there’s room for a proper right hand turning lane for traffic going down Church St.
@goldiefish wrote:
Those chairs look particularly uncomfortable…
They’re grand really. Fairly standard issue airport chairs. The only real problem is that if your flight is badly delayed, you can’t lie across them and use them as a bed.
Just to explain what I was suggesting earlier with a picture.
I was looking at a full interchange to the west of the current Douglas West one with a link road back to the existing roundabout on the South Douglas Rd. To be effective, the Douglas West junction would be closed. The Douglas East one should probably be closed too. The traffic to Douglas could use the Rochestown or new Douglas West junction depending on which side of the village they wanted to go to.
This should avoid CPOs on any houses and, in fact, most of the land is in council hands anyway.
There could also be a possibilty of continuing a road from this junction to Grange.
A road east from Grange Cross would destroy what is left of Douglas Woods and would serve little practical purpose anyway, It might keep a bit of Grange-Rochestown traffic out of the village. Besides, the proposal for a junction onto the South Link would render this pointless. A better option might be to upgrade the existing road that runs from the N28 to Donnybrook (currently a boreen) and to extend it towards Pinecroft.
A proper interchange on the South Ring west of the current ones would be desirable, but it should be tied to the closure of the existing interchanges. Then an ordinary road could be run from the existing roundabout on the South Douglas Road to this interchange and on to Grange. The roundabout might need to be replaced with traffic lights because of the volumes at it.
I can’t see the benefit of making Douglas West one-way. Also, I can’t see how you would get a bus to the Daily’s shop area without using it. Considering the 6 and 7 pass down this way, it must be taken into account.
I remember saying this a number of years back, but before engaging in mass road building, there are a few remedial measures that could make a big difference on the current roads. Ban street parking in Douglas (and enforce this ban) and replace the roundabout at Tesco with traffic lights. You’d be surprised how much difference it could make.
Where I could see a service working is linking Cobh to Ringaskiddy.
Since, I have some knowledge of Rotterdam, I’ll make one comparison. The fast ferry from Rotterdam to Dordrecht serves a number of towns and villages that don’t have or have a very poor public transport connection to the two towns. You could travel Dordrecht-Rotterdam much faster by train and I wonder if anyone uses the service for the entire trip.
Unfortunately, a route up from the Lower Harbour is essentially duplicating one of the best served public transport routes in Cork. Perhaps if it stuck to stops on the west bank (with a possible exception for Little Island), it might be more viable.
But, I could still see a situation where you could feed passengers from the various Lower Harbour towns onto the train at Cobh for further connections, while providing a previously unavailable connectivity in the Lower Harbour.
@samuel j wrote:
Not if the operator get the right craft…. there is a vast choice of waterbuses out there on the market with most modern designs giving good speed. no reason it could not be a 35-45 minute journey if the correct craft is chosen, which is ending right in the city would be good.
Lets just hope the feasibility study is not left to a land lubber who comes up with some clapped out slow boat to China type of craft…..
I was under the impression that the Harbour had a very slow speed limit?
The article is a little disjointed, but raises some interesting points. The river bus would be welcome, but I feel it would be better connecting people onto the train at Cobh and not bothering to come up above Monkstown. It would take a very long time to get from the Lower Harbour to Cork by boat.
Good to see that someone is discussing the whole Kent Station shambles too.
@rebel_city wrote:
Hey,
I’ve heard a rumour – just a rumour that McDonalds in Winthorp St. may be going on sale! I’d say if it’s true then maybe BT’s might try and snap it up! Interesting eh! Sure we’ll wait and see!:rolleyes:
I suspect it’s on their minds. I wonder if they might try to swap the Caroline St premises for it so that they get a unified site. That said, I’m sure it’s the old Lee Cinema that they’d really like. I bet they regret not taking that when it was available.
Incidentally, they had a planning application in a few weeks back to turn a rooftop area into some terracing for the cafe.
@lawyer wrote:
they might have had some money for a viewing gallery – or even a few seats other than those in the eating areas. [Not to mind €4.50 for a pint of lager]
This was actually deliberate in the design. One of the complaints from business travellers (the principal and most profitable users of the airport) was that the old airport resembled a creche at times. The lack of seating before security is to encourage departing passengers to pass through security as quickly as possible. You’ll find that there are very few pre-security seats in most newly built airports around the world nowadays.
