johnglas
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Heresy, folks, heresy – and dangerous talk; this sounds too much like a streetscape. And you’ll soon have the modernistas in hot pursuit…
Yes, it’s a sad tale, but not untypical. Unpalatable as it may be, there are going to have to be many lines drawn under many dodgy deals, until this recession (depression?) is over. But we cannot go back to where we were and at least the building remains with a tremendous potential for the future.
Oh, for the simple cool plainness of yellow, mellow brick as a relief from all that fiery red – I feel atouch of the vapours!
Here, brick was not used at all as a building material until well into the 19thC and the coming of cheap imports from England by rail. Traditionally harled rubble would have been used until the more widespread use of sandstone ashlar in the great tenement building booms in the mid 19thC; as it happens, red sandstone is always considered superior to ‘blond’ (yellow), which was the first to be used widely in the city. I don’t agree, but red did keep its colour better through soot (until the great – and sometimes disastrous – stone-cleaning binge of the 1980s) and was associated with more up-market areas.
I’ve always liked London stock brick and it’s worthwhile remarking that old red brick in, say, Amsterdam is often painted over in very dark colours. On the other hand, red brick in all the countries around the Baltic has a charm that it’s hard to beat.jdivision; maybe in the current climate (economies everywhere imploding, not just in your neck of the woods) owners will get more ‘realistic’ about rents and tenancies and value occupancy over empty. Saw this place in Dec; thought it a waste that the great space was compromised, but thought the sub-division had been done in the least offensive way. One of Dublin’s great interiors, surely.
When will the basement open? That will be a tour-de-force – anyone any pics?It’s a great game; I have an image of the dome in my head, but I can’t get a pic for it. Take your point about the facade of S Pietro, but that’s a ‘giant order’ and the Karlskirche’s rises through only one storey. Have another look at the corner tower assembly of S. Carlo (a work of real genius).
You can just about make out the flattened ‘onion’ on the corner.
Ohhh…! Trajan’s Column for a start; the lateral arches are reminiscent of the facade of S. Pietro (a weak feature of the design imo); the dome S. Maria del Populo (or La Sapienza – but not S. Pietro);the flattened ‘onion’ domes over the lateral towers S. Carlo alle Quatro Fontane – but I’ll need to think about the rest; good question. The main facade arrangement doesn’t look Roman at all, more like a Palladian villa.
My only visit to the Karlskirch ended in acrimony; having been charged to get in, I discovered the place to be full of scaffolding (I see some of it’s still there); true to national stereotype I demanded – and got – my money back!Prax: a wonderful collection of images; I’ve seen the interior of Vierzehnheiligen often enough in architecture books, but not the remarkable exterior. Neumann was clearly an architect of genius and the plastic forms of some of his buildings are (much more crudely) echoed in some of today’s attempts at ‘wobbly’ buildings. (Compare, for example, the formless chapel at Bon Secours recently built.)
In one sense his interiors are ‘decadent’ and they led to much over-sentimentalised decoration in Victorian Gothic churches, but this is the work of a master and the extent to which they are cared for is a tribute to him.Arrogance, dear boy, arrogance. By the way, what has happened to Dublin’s most romantic bldg (well, one of them), the former University Hostel on Hatch St?
Can see their point given the number of people sardined into the Porterhouse, but in townscape terms it’s too inept to be true.
PS Is the Clarence proposal now dead? (I hope.)D.S. Why would anyone want to drive there when a major event is on? You can occasionally be surgically separated from your car.
Consolation or not, we have exactly the same problem here; I have never understood why councils do not have a simple by-law staing that window replacement in buildings over a certain age should only be according to the original window profile. There would be problems of enforcement, but neighbours on the look-out are wonderful and the ‘penalty’ would be only that the original profile be reinstated.
Ok spoil-sport: points all taken, but as a famous Irishman (allegedly) said: ‘Because you are born in a stable, doesn’t make you a horse’!
…is how the design should now be amended to meet the liturgical requirements while retaining more of the existing fabric of the cathedral.
We are surely now past the stage where we think that any existing building (apart arguably from those built post-1960, paradoxically) needs to be ‘amended’ to meet some spurious notion of liturgical requirements. If mass is to be celebrated versus populum (which could be translated as ‘against the people’!), the the ‘two altar’ solution is the only tenable one. The ‘second’ altar should be movable, but decent and dignified. Oddly enough, the current trend for smaller ‘cuboid’ altars makes this easier. Existing alars, especially if integral to the design of the church, should never be removed, nor the integrity of the sanctuary area, including altar rails, be disturbed.
Prax: thanks for all the material – I’ll read it later.
…there is strangley a nice balance that Dublin’s most important buildings of the 18C, Customs House, Four Courts, were also designed by a Brit
spoil-sport: Gandon a Brit! Wash your mouth out! Wasn’t his father a Huguenot ‘refugee’? So, they were used to travelling,as it were. Globalisation is nothing new (like much else).
The idea that the ‘Brits’ built the best bits of 18th and 19thC Dublin is just rubbish; the administration was Brit (there wasn’t exactly a choice, although for a brief period 1782-1801 there was an ‘independent’ Irish legislature), but the taxes, the expenditure, the materials and the manpower (sic) that built them were Irish. Lose the cringe.However, the architect solved the problem of building a prominent church by building a very slim and high church which rises out of a mass of town houses.
Prax: fascinating and interesting posts on St Willibord’s in Utrecht – this is not the only instance of this in the Netherlands. One of the most well-known is the church of St Franciscus Xavierus (De Krijtberg), built in the site of three houses on the Singel canal in the centre of Amsterdam; note how the transepts overlap the adjoining houses! The interior is immensely tall and graceful, and very much still decorated in the original style. Fans of 19thC Dutch Gothic should not miss it in any visit to A’dam.
[first pic from Wikipedia (again), although the parish does have its own website.]
[additional pics from: http://www.krijtberg.nl]Prax: I have indeed heard the carillon at Cobh and a beautiful sound it is; whatever other criticism there is of them, the authorities at Cobh are to be congratulated on maintaining the bells in good order. I always think the sound of bells is a good way of ‘softening’ our hard-edged modern world and making us think.even for a minute, of other things (whatever they may be).
PS Thanks for reminding us of the glories of Monreale; there is also the Palatine Chapel (Capella Palatina) at Palermo in similar glorious vane.
pic from Wikipedia:If the bells are rung as a carillon in the Belgian or Dutch manner, they could provide a lovely backdrop to the noise of the city, especially of an evening. However, they need to do more than just ring out the Angelus; in the Low Countries carillons ring out the hours and quarters accompanied by appropriate tunes. Let’s hope the bells don’t just rust because the Administrator (suitably prosaic title) can’t be bothered organising a programme for them after a while.
Yes, it’s a great pity it’s not a peal of bells; evensong and change-ringing: Anglicanism’s contribution to civilisation (amongst other things).
A recording of the new carillon in action would be good.It’s now looking good! The CAD renders made it look as though the outer cladding was going to obscure much of the detail (which I didn’t think worked at all), but these pictures show much more articulation, with a definite horizontal banding to complement the verticality of the stands. Am I right?
Saw it from the vicinity of Grand Canal Dock in early Dec – it was looming impressively over Ballsbridge.Graham: interesting post and thread. I agree with all your comments, including your observation on ‘municipal clutter’ (what is it with public realm these days – is it the ugly bugs’ ball?), but it’s intersting that a stream which might have once been considered ‘back’ land now becomes an important element as a reference and a setting for the buildings adjoining, and as an element to be ‘seen’ from the building as part of the living experience. So, not merely does the street need to be seen in context, but elements such as water as well. Municipalities need to get their collective finger out, now that they have a ‘breather’ from frenetic development, to assesss critically the townscape they are allegedly managing. A case of watch this space, I think.
PS The ‘awful’ stuff across the road is partly relieved by the brick trims; I thought ‘fyfestone’ had been consigned to the dustbin, but apparently not.
