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Ye are being very unfair on Garret.
It is completely off base to blame him for the “missing link” in the Luas. That was partly due to vigorous lobbying by city centre retailing interests (ironically who are now championing the link). But most of the blame for it lies firmly with O’Rourke who instead of deciding on either metro or tram dreamt up her own cockamaymie idea of a tram with a horrendously expensive and impractical short underground section. A solution involving most of the expense of a metro but with the capacity and speed of a tram. Of course the ludecrous underground section was never built leaving us with a disconnected tram system.
What Garret argued is simply that the Luas as proposed at the time would not provide the capacity required a) to eventually serve the Airport and b) to reduce traffic congestion in the city. For the former he simply looked at the numbers going through the airport and the capacity of the Luas line (about 3000 people an hour) and pointed out that the Luas would only provide a fraction of the capacity required. For the latter he produced DTO figures which said at the time that there were about 250000 people milling around Dublin during rush hour (probably more at this stage). It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a line with capacity of 3000 people an hour is not going to make much of a difference to the amount of traffic. Not that that’s a reason for not building it but at the time the Luas was being championed as a silver bullet that would solve congestion in the city centre. Garret simply pointed out that it wouldn’t.
His predictions and analysis have been verified if anything. Belately everyone has realised that a tram to the Airport will not suffice. If they’d listened to Garret, we would now have a metro from the Airport/Swords to Shanganagh. Instead we will effectively have line which is composed of a metro line (from the airport to Stephens Green) which terminates in the city (requiring a change for passengers) and continues as a separate tram line (from the Green to Sandyford) – undeniably a bit of a dogs dinner in transport terms.
so how kerry foods runs itseld is very important
Yes, Kerry Group have their headquarters in Tralee. They don’t have their staff catering operations to Aunascall, their HR dept. in Fenit, their IT staff in Castlegregory, their accountants in Lixnaw, etc. It would be nuts from a business point of view and decentralisation (as proposed) is simply nuts. It will add 100s of millions to the annual costs of running the civil service. Even ignoring all the milage for meetings, how will it be possible, for example, to offer any sort of IT support for an office of 50 civil servants in a village in Mayo? It will require massive duplication for basic support services which will result in huge inefficiencies.
If the government were serious about decentralisation, they would pick ONE location – say Shannon for example – and move the entire civil service there. But this plan isn’t about creating regional balance or easing the infrastructure pressures in Dublin. It’s a cynical political excercise to help certain TDs retain their seats at massive cost to the public purse.
The idea that technology can overcome all the blindingly obvious flaws with this plan is naive. This stance reminds me of paperless office advocates who stuck to their confident predictions for decades even as all empirical evidence demonstrated trends which completely contradicted their theories. I’ve used video-conferencing on and off for years and it is actually less productive than telephone conferencing. Despite the wishful thinking of some, this reality is being recognised and video-conferencing is actually used less, in my experience, these days than ten years ago. And telephone conferencing is FAR less productive than sharing an office with the relevant people. Anyone who claims otherwise has little experience of business or commerce.
They are also very very long lived, with almost no chance of being removed if they turn out badly.
I’ve heard this claim a few times and it puzzles me as it is almost the opposite of the reality. Low-rise sprawl, semi-D estates, etc. are far more permanent than any tall building. Some of the tallest buildings we had in Dublin – the Ballymun Towers are gone/going having lasted less than 45 years. I doubt Hawkins house will last another 10. It would be realitively trivial to get rid of Liberty Hall if SIPTU were so inclined. On the other hand, how long do you think the semi-D estates around Lucan will last for example?
In any case, under T21, there will be a large station in Stephens Green linking the metro with the interconnector – the underground section of a DART line which will serve Heuston, Pearse and stations north of Connolly. The biggest flaw or gap in all the proposed routes is a lack of integration with the Maynooth line which it crosses near Phibsboro/Drumcondra. This line is already very busy with commuter and inter-city traffic and will get even busier when the Navan link is operational. It will be simply outragous if two high capacity/high frequency rail lines pass each other at right angles and no form of integration is provided simply because of power politics between Irish Rail and the RPA.
As an occasional user of the green line, I want to echo publicrealm’s comment. The current line is already beyond capacity during peak hours. Adding 7km to the end of it will exacerbate the problem and the line will become unusable as a rush hour option for commuting to town for anyone closer than Dundrum (as publicrealm points out, it is already useless for people living closer than Milltown). Effectively this tram line will only be used for relatively long commutes which is not really what this transport mode is designed for. The M50 analogy is very much appropriate in this case. I want the Luas system to be extended but I’d rather see some completely new lines built. Given the pattern of commuting in Dublin, two separate lines running to the centre would provide double the useful capacity that a single double length line would provide. Assuming (by ensuring connections) the two lines could share depot facities, then it would not cost any more to build a new 7km line west of the green line maybe taking places like kimmage and harolds cross.
The idea of a geodesic home is appealing if you listen to Buckminster Fuller. (He patented the design I believe.) Read this account for a more practical perspective on dome shaped homes. It’s an interesting read; the author has actually built a couple and concludes, after the experience, that the disadvantages far outweigh any advantages.
The best thing they could do with Smithfield would be to get rid of every single thing that sticks out of the ground in the square – lampposts, signs, the stainless steel bollards and even the feature “Nuremburg Rally” gas lights. The latter in particular are responsible for most of the lopsidedness; the difference in building heights on both sides isn’t as significant as it seems. Without them the large chimney and setbacks on the eastern side would provide some sort of counter balance. Also these features – especially the bollards – create visual “lines” across the square which are ugly and arbitrary and break up the potential “squareness” of the space. After that, they should ensure a uniform paving scheme for the entire square – getting rid of the eastern “road” – for example by extending the cobbling to cover the entire space.
There isn’t much you can do with the mishmash of buildings but for me that’s part of the square’s appeal. I’d hate to see the Cobblestone go I have to say – it’s a great pub and one of the few reasons why “outsiders” visit the area at night.
Reasons why tourists may (still haven’t seen any absolute facts to support it) be turning away from rural tourism:
– fact: roads are seriously crap by European standards around the country;
– fact: an increased number people are taking weekend breaks due to cheap flights – by their nature weekend breaks focus on cities near airports;
– lack of real tourist amenities in the countryside as country is so biased towards Dublin (you can call this whining if it makes you feel better, it doesn’t take away from the fact that it is a fact).I’ll grant you that the growth in weekend holidays tends to funnel visitors to the cities but your other two “facts” make no sense. The roads were much much worse 10/15 years ago and there were fewer amenities (like “interpretive” centres and other such “attractions”) yet the proportion of tourists’ time spent in the countryside was much higher. Your defence of once-off housing on the basis that it represents what tourists want to see in Ireland is ludicrous. Instead of fondly imagining what tourists want to see in the Irish countryside you should ask them. I had some foreign friends over for a few days over the christmas/new year and I brought them around Kerry and Mayo. The bits they liked were the carefully selected isolated, relatively uninhabited parts (the state of the roads didn’t seem to bother them at all actually) and they also liked some of the towns and villages we stopped in. They were vocally unimpressed with the once-off development spreading along every R road (and even many N roads) in the country and in areas of natural beauty.
And yes, many tourists come here to see that as that is what they understand Ireland to be – rural houses, solitude, peacefullness.
You have got to be kidding PDLL if you think tourists enjoy looking at once-off houses dotted all over the countryside. Tourists are voting with their feet and are more and more of them are sticking with visiting cities. The stats are there to prove it. Of course, the O’Cuiv type professional whingers will immediately blame Dublin-centric development as the reason and will demand that Bord Failte et al. do more for them instead of facing the fact that by building all over areas of natural beauty they are killing the golden goose themselves through short-sighted greed.
Is this a reasonable generalisation. I think not.
That’s my point. Your argument (besides the crime stats thing) seems to be based on a bunch of one-sided generalisations. Did you read the article I linked to and if so what did you think?
😀 Sorry ctesiphon, could you explain that again? I’m curious what tone you’ll adopt next. So far you’ve hit me with (in order): irritation, condescension, pomposity, feigned indifference, patronisation and anger.
I responded to message #102 in an entirely reasonable fashion. Read it and my immediate response again.
I have not responded to your question “How anyone can presume to speak for others?” because I didn’t see it’s relevence to my position on anything here and I saw it as an attempt (admittedly a very successful one) to personalise the discussion. Instead of accusing me of presumption, you could have simply contested the claim with, for example, something along the lines of “I disagree. Most cyclist are NOT easy going when it comes to non-cyclists using cycle paths because…”.
PDLL, your “bigger picture” is just a bunch of stereotypes of an idylic countryside existance. You make no mention of 2 and half hour commutes. You make no mention that children have to be driven everywhere in cars and have extremely limited social lives outside of school as they are not in a position to independently meet friends. You do not mention the extremely high rate of suicide and depression in the parts of Ireland which have the most dispersed pattern of settlement. Or the fact that sustaining a social life almost necessitates driving while under the influence of alchohol. I always liked this piece which while perhaps overly negative, tallies with some of my own experiences growing up in a once-off.
No he’s not right. His claim that “30 year old computers are not worth talking about.” is absolute rubbish in the context of control systems.
The suggestion that simply upgrading the “old computers” and providing a passing loop would provide similar capacity benefits is silly. So your suburban commuter train pulls into the passing loop. Meanwhile, the Cork-Dublin train is ten minutes behind schedule, so the commuters have to wait in a stationary train for 10 minutes until the intercity can “overtake” it? Mixing intercity and suburban trains on a single line is o.k. when the frequency is low but once you try to increase the capacity/frequency, it’s a recipe for poor service as the northern line demonstrates. A delay in places as far away as Cork, Limerick, Ennis or Tralee would impact the commuter service between Kildare and Heuston.
The only point I would have any sympathy for is that the cost of project seems high for what it delivers. However, I’m not sure that his objection to the project is purely based on financial considerations since elsewhere on his site, he seems to support the western rail corridoor. His real fear seems to be that the four track section would work well with the T21 interconnector project and he seems to be using his “objection” to the KRP simply as another opportunity to attack the interconnector.
I’ll pretend to agree that my posts made no sense
How gracious of you. The question referred to, addressed to me in post #102, made no sense. You made a mistake by using a quote from me that you probably didn’t mean to use. It’s an understandable mistake to make so there was no need to “clarify” before offering to “pretend to agree” having apparently become bored with the whole thing.
Apologies jimg- it was a little unclear.
How about admitting that it made no sense whatsoever?
Even your clarification is unclear. Are you contesting my claim that most cyclists are easygoing when it comes to people walking on cyclepaths? Or were you upset at the indirect suggestion that you seem highly indignant about this topic?
How anyone can presume to speak for others, in particular or in general, I find somewhat baffling. In short, how can you know?
Well now it’s my turn to be baffled. You’re asking this question in the context of a seemingly unrelated quote of mine from earlier in the thread but I can’t make the connection between the quote and the question you are asking.
@ctesiphon wrote:
You empathise? But you are the enemy. If you want to use the bike lane, get a bike.
Don’t mind him PDLL 😀 – you’ll find that most of us cyclists are pretty easy going and have no problem sharing “our” space with others without whipping ourselves into a state of indignation. It doesn’t bother me in the least (as a cyclist). 😉
Actually the renderings don’t really do it justice. It looks much better “in the flesh” and actually is well scaled for the site; most views of it will be from across (or along) a large expanse of water and it has surprisingly little visual impact on the rest of the city.
Other impressions of Limerick, while I was there for a while over Christmas:
The lights on O’Connell St were very beautiful.
The standard of footpaths and other street fittings is generally quite poor. Maybe the Bedford row work will improve standards.
Despite the competition from suburban shopping centres, the city centre is still pretty vibrant place for shopping. There is still a need for more modern (i.e. large) units in the centre but hopefully the Savoy and Henry St. development will provide some.
There is a problem with litter in parts. Things has improved but it is still noticable.MrX, I think the point that struck me was that the population of Dublin is declining and that the rest of Leinster is taking up the slack with huge population growth based on a unsustainable pattern – in particular by building large suburban housing estates in rural or semi-rural areas of Leinster. So the damage isn’t confined to the urban space of Dublin – the whole of Leinster is slowly being wrecked.
I travelled quite a bit over the Christmas period: Dublin to Limerick, then Tralee, then Galway and then to the west of Mayo before driving back to Dublin. I was genuinely depressed by the destruction of the countryside and the poor quality of the planning and development which is going on all over the country. The fact that I was reading the Frank McDonald/James Nix book at the time may have made me hypersensitive this year. But your claim that 90%+ of the country is being developed properly does not tally at all with my experience.
