hutton

In view of the proposed Dublin Public Showers-with-Billboards plan, which the Irish Times may flag-wave on, and in view of some developments regarding this, a quick update seems worthwhile.

Readers/ posters will note that I have made specific criticisms of The Irish Times dereliction of reportage in relation to this scheme, and also I previously criticised to Cllr Andrew Montague (Lab), who has been one of the projects chief advocates in City Hall.

I wish to apologise. My criticisms were no where near as harsh as they should have been.

The Irish Times has traditionally styled itself as “the Paper of Record”; a bizarre, Orwellian, and farcical notion when one considers the following:

1) At present the Irish Times, as reported by Olivia Kelly, states and restates that the revenue “is estimated to be worth €1 million annually” (to JC Decaux). Yet this is the same paper, and indeed the same reporter, that previously stated the “contract that could be worth €90 million to the council.

Now I know Im no grade-A student at maths, but it would seem very basic to me that there is a shortfall of some €75 Million, when one deducts the €15 M (€1M x 15 year terms) from the €90 M that was first reported.

So either JC Decaux is a charity, giving 75 M to the city – or else the Irish Times has got (and continues to get) a most basic but essential figure wrong. Again and again. Has there been a correction or clarification in “The Paper of Record”? There has like fuck.

2) Cllr Andrew Montague (Lab) has been one of the prime instigators of the scheme, defending it on numerous occasions on RTE, liveline, and also in the Irish Times last year where he welcomed the granting of permission stating “I’m delighted that the council granted planning permission, it’s the first step to getting this up and running”.

In an almost Orwellian scenario, guess who the Irish Time’s Olivia Kelly got quotes off, when the IT recycled the story from a Sunday paper that theres no sign of the bikes – despite the billboards almost finished? What critic would make for a good quote – aha; Its Andrew Montague again!

It is a remarkable affair where the self-styled “Paper of Record” gets criticising quotes from somebody who is largely responsible for the scheme – without asking what his role had been in this regard, and without reminding readers of this fact. But then maybe one shouldn’t be suprised given the most basic mis-reporting of the facts and cash regarding this. Finally I note that although the Times recycled the story from elsewhere, Ms Kelly is still incapable of getting a most basic fact right that the WCs have been dropped from the scheme.

Rather than offering courses to others, maybe the Irish Times should send their own reporters back to media school. with a suggested first class in “Check your Facts”.

Paper of Record – My Arse.

@The Irish Times, March 19, 2008 wrote:

‘Bikes for rent’ group gets its ad panels but we will have to wait for cycles
OLIVIA KELLY

CITY BICYCLES, due to be provided by JC Decaux in exchange for outdoor advertising space in Dublin estimated to be worth &#8364] will not be available until next year, even though the advertising
panels will be erected by this summer.

JC Decaux has agreed to provide 450 bicycles for rent at 50 locations around the city, as well as four public toilets and a number of tourist signposts and freestanding maps, in exchange for 15-year permission for about 80 advertising panels.

The freestanding double-sided panels range in size from 2sq m – approximately the size of a bus shelter advertisement – to 7sq m and will be placed on prominent sites, including Henry Street, Liffey Street and Smithfield Plaza.

Dublin City Council originally intended that the bicycles would be provided free. However, it could not find anyone to run a free scheme.

In April 2006, the council announced that JC Decaux had been selected to run a bicycle rental scheme. The company was already running similar schemes in several European cities including Vienna and Lyon.

In April 2007 the council granted JC Decaux permission to erect in the region of 100 advertising panels across the city. In 24 cases appeals were made against the panels to An Bord Pleanála.

Last February the planning board upheld 18 of these appeals on the basis that these panels would cause a traffic hazard.

However, JC Decaux said the number of bicycles it would provide would not be reduced as it had based its agreement with the council on the number of panels which it was granted and were not appealed. This agreement was finalised in mid-2007.

A spokeswoman for the council said that JC Decaux had informed council officials that it intended to erect its panels by “this summer”. However, the bicycles will not be on the streets until next year.

“We don’t have an exact date from JC Decaux for the panels, but they have their planning permission and it’s up to them now when they use it,” she said.

Labour councillor Andrew Montague said he understood the scheme involved a significant amount of infrastructure, particularly the bicycle stations. However, he said JC Decaux should not have prime advertising space for free in the city in the meantime.

“If they are getting the advertising without the bicycles being available, they should pay for it, either by providing more bikes or making a cash payment to cover the intervening period.”

(c) 2008 The Irish Times

@The Irish Times, Saturday, April 15, 2006 wrote:

Plan to halve number of large ad hoardings
Olivia Kelly

Dublin City Council proposes to halve the number of large advertising hoardings in the city under new plans to regulate outdoor advertising.

The council is in the process of negotiating the contract for control of all future public space advertising with one of the world’s largest outdoor advertising companies, JC Decaux.

In return the company will provide a number of facilities, which the council calls “public realm enhancements”, including the long-awaited citywide public bike rental scheme, in a contract that could be worth &#8364]

Under the contract, JC Decaux will have a licence to advertise in various locations around the city, principally using a free-standing “six-sheet” format, similar in size to bus shelter advertising.

Large 48-sheet billboards will not be used in future advertising under the contract, and the council is negotiating to reduce the number of JC Decaux’s current 18sq m hoardings by 50 per cent before the new advertising is erected.

The council hopes to eventually eliminate the 48-sheet format. While other advertising companies have large billboards on private properties which do not come under the council’s jurisdiction, the council hopes that the newer advertising formats will make billboard advertising obsolete and that An Bord Pleanála will look less favourably on granting planning permission for these hoardings.

“The redevelopment of different parts of the city means that, over a period of time, the 48-sheets will disappear. They’re not a suitable type of advertising for the city and they’re not even very effective,” council executive manager Ciaran McNamara said.

One of the principal benefits to the city of the new contract will be the provision of a bicycle rental scheme

While the terms of the contract are still under discussion, and it is unclear whether the rental deposit will be refundable, JC Decaux is to provide an initial minimum of 500 bikes and 25 city-wide bike stations under the scheme.

The company will supply install and operate the scheme on behalf of the council. Users will be able to collect a bicycle from one of the stations, cycle it around the city for a limited period before depositing it at any of the number of designated sites. The bicycles will have solid puncture-proof tyres and be “virtually vandal-proof”, the contractor said.

Automatic public toilets, for both able-bodied and disabled users, heritage trail plaques, public signposts and free-standing maps will also be provided by the contractor.

The council hopes the new advertising scheme, including all public facilities, will be in place within the next 12-18 months.

© 2006 The Irish Times

@notjim wrote:

and just to add, I certainly hope it isn’t falling in after 100 million was spent on it!

Lol. I was wondering which building had been declared dangerous on that street – traffic has been savage all around town all day as a result!

Compare and Contrast

A sample of what was proposed, note what would appear to be a solid chrome detailed pedistal:

And whats going in, 6825/06 On the public footpath on the northern side of Dean Street, near the Junction with Patrick Street, outside ‘Ovenden House’, Dublin 8 –

Establishing shot:

Close ups:

Do these look the same as that which was indicated in the applications? Not IMO anyway. At this rate I wont be suprised if the panels themselves also deviate from that originally indicated; maybe like the pedistals JC Decaux doesn’t have any of the Europanels in stock, and will have to opt for a “temporary” solution of much larger display panels – wouldn’t that be such a shame :rolleyes:

@Sloan wrote:

Dublin’s bike scheme will leave little to go on
DON’T expect to spend a penny when Dublin’s “free bike scheme” is rolled out next year. JC Decaux, the company behind the proposal, has withdrawn its commitment to build four public toilets in the city centre as part of the deal with Dublin city council.
In a further dilution of the deal, the advertising agency will now remove only 50 existing billboards from the city’s streets, instead of the initially agreed 100. This part of the deal had been negotiated to prevent the city being over-run by advertising hoardings.
Jim Keogan of the city council’s planning department said the revised deal was necessary because JC Decaux was only granted planning permission to erect 72 advertising panels, instead of the 120 that had been originally proposed. “We’re very happy with the final agreement,” he said.
Although 500 bicycles were initially promised, the final deal will now see 450 bikes on the streets, located at 50 docking stations around the city. And while the plan was first billed as a “free bike scheme” last year, use of the bicycles is likely to be free for only 30 minutes. “We have yet to iron out how much they will cost but a charge is only likely to kick in after half-an-hour,” Keogan said.
An Bord Pleanala blocked 18 of JC Decaux’s proposed “Metropole” advertising panels last week, ruling that the signs were “overbearing” and could distract traffic. Although the scheme is still set to go ahead, its critics argue the deal has been “watered down”.
Ian Lumley of An Taisce said: “We argued that the original deal was bad business for Dublin city but it’s now even worse. 100 prominent billboards were supposed to be removed but it was never specified which ones would be taken away. Now they’re only going to remove the50 least visible and erect 72 new adverts, increasing the overall visual clutter in the city.”
The city council will receive no revenue from the advertising or rental of the advertising spaces but 32 advertising “faces”, one side of an advertising panel, will be given over to civic information. In Paris, where a similar deal is in operation, the city is paid an annual rent of €2,085 per advertising panel.
The advertising panels are to be erected in September, with the
bicycles following next Spring.
Each “Metropole” advertising structure could generate up to €8,000 a month if it was leased by the council, advertisers have claimed. Critics of the scheme say the larger, more obtrusive advertising hoardings are to be erected in working class areas and complain that while Dubliners will receive only 6.25 bicycles per advertising billboard, Parisians got 12.6.
JC Decaux has also been criticised for maintaining unauthorized advertising hoardings in the city. At an oral hearing into the scheme last year, An Taisce claimed the company was responsible for 119 unauthorised advertising adverts across the state. The planning watchdog argues that the scheme should also have been subject to an environmental impact assessment.
Andrew Montague, a Labour councillor and chairman of the Dublin city cycling forum, said the cost of the bicycles wouldn’t be prohibitive for users.
“In Lyon, it’s free for the first 30 minutes, €1 for the next 30 minutes, rising steadily the longer you take out the bike. A daily fee is likely to be about €70,” he said.
In other cities where JC Decaux have set up bicycle schemes, users have to pre-register with a credit card to avail of the scheme, typically paying about €30-a-year on top of the charge for using a bicycle. If someone loses a bicycle or fails to return it to one of the docking stations within a set period of time, the replacement cost of a bicycle, typically about €150, is deducted from their credit card. The security measures have all but eliminated bicycle theft in other cities where the scheme has been implemented and in Lyons, city traffic fell by 10% within a year of the scheme’s introduction.
But some traders are unconvinced by the scheme’s merits. Tom Coffey of the Dublin City Business Association said many of the planned advertising hoardings wouldn’t pass basic safety tests and that some were being erected on privately owned property.
In Paris, JC Decaux’s Velib scheme, taking its name from a mixture of vélo (bike) and liberté, has encountered problems since being launched on July 15. The company has been accused of failing to repair damaged bikes and not redistributing the currently available 10,000 bikes around the city’s 700 docking stations at the end of each day. The central stations are often clogged with bikes, while those in outlying areas and at the top of hills, such as Montmartre, are often empty.
JC Decaux has so far set up cycling schemes in Seville, Cordoba, Brussels, Vienna, and Lyon. Last week, Ken Livingstone announced a similar scheme for London but unlike the Dublin proposal, the €100m cost will be borne by taxpaers instead of business partners.
Sunday Times 17.02.08

1. The condition on the PP is perfectly legally clear – it cannot now be amended to only 50 billboards going, except by means of new application. Mr Jim Keogan would do well to talk to Mr Terence O Keefe regarding this methinks.

2 @DCC Misleading Spin wrote:

The advertising panels are to be erected in September, with the bicycles following next Spring.

I refer to my point yesterday, and yes these are definately already going in – see application no. below.

6825/06 On the public footpath on the northern side of Dean Street, near the Junction with Patrick Street, outside ‘Ovenden House’, Dublin 8

However the units appear totally different to that which was proposed, with a flimsy brown metal mesh treatment rather than the chrome solid appearance of that shown in the plans. So far its the pedistal element thats in and they actually look cheaper and nastier than that which was shown in the plans. Will JC Decaux face enforcement from the same officials that took charge in steering this ahead? *Not holding breath*

I hope to have a snap of this tomorrow for this thread –

What will be interesting though, is to see how well Dubliners – who were largely kept in the dark – react to these units now that theyre going up…Hmmm….

Hallelujah!

Those yokes were desperate. And its amazing how shabby the fridges became in less than 5 years.

@notjim wrote:

Isn’t it a pity that this was such a failure, the idea seemed appealing the abstract, but obviously a mistake the moment the kiosks arrived. What went wrong, if they had been somewhere else could this have worked and if so where and selling what?

I would suggest that 2 units may have worked, (in historic rather than modernist genre of design) but 4 was total overkill.

Imo a key part of the problem is that once they werent being used, they served only as pinch-points where pedestrians were intimidated by anti-social behaviour, which in turn created a spriral of decline, deterring the idea that the units could serve the intended pupose. Completing the pinch-point effect are the seats; how many people do you ever see sitting on this who aren’t begging – probably about as many that sit around the Robocop Plaza beside City Hall…. That said, now that the Fridges are going, maybe the seats can at last function – but please replace those bloody awful looking plastic bins!

Anyhow fair dues to whoever it is in DCC that made the call to get rid of these 🙂

@notjim wrote:

I understand that the building around this facade fragment is going to the mini-monumental, but couldn’t a stone fronted building without a flat facade and strong vertical elements manage to incorporate it in a playful and striking way.

My apologies – I should have made myself clearer, I actually meant that the portico is “mini-monumental” in scale, not the glass yoke thats proposed.

Imo the problem with using the portico as the entrance to BB from the linear park is that it would be lost, in that wheras one approachs the basin directly from Blessington St, the linear park runs perpendicular to the basin and is very tight. Its only a few weeks ago that I was up there, and I had forgotten how confined the space is. Imo the portico should really address/ form part of a vista.

@Devin wrote:

There’s a plan to consume it within a glazed building. Planning Ref. 1174/08 :

From DCC website:

Full Development Description

Planning permission for development on the lands known as Convent Lands. The development will consist of the provision of 179 no. residential units (27 no. 1 bed, 89 no. 2 bed, 61 no. 3 bed, 2 no. 4 bed) and 18 no. live/work unit in five blocks, one of which is the refurbished Main Convent Building 3,112sqm local area office for Dublin City Council; 901sqm of office space incorporating the portico of the Scots Presbyterian Church/Cornmill site (Protected Structure) fronting Sean McDermott Street; 216.1sqm of office space for the Crinan Project on a site measuring 0.891 hectares. The development will comprise the following; Demolition of 77 Sean McDermott Street Lower; Construction of Block A, an eight/nine storey apartment block with terraces and balconies fronting Railway Street, consisting of 70 no. units (7no. 1 bed, 35 no. 2 bed, 27 no. 3 bed, 1 no. 4 bed); Construction of Block B, an eight/nine storey apartment block with terraces and balconies fronting Railway Street, consisting of 73 units (12 no. 1 bed, 33 no. 2 bed, 28 no. 3 bed) and a 2 storey Crinan Project of 216.1sqm of office/workshop space; Construction of Block C, a six storey apartment block with terraces and balconies central to the site, to the south of the existing Convent Building (Block E), consisting of 23 units (10 no. 2 bed, 12 no. 3 bed, 1no. 4 bed); Construction of Block D, a six storey apartment block with terraces and balconies facing onto Sean McDermott Street Lower, consisting of 13 units (6 no. 2 bed, 7 no. 3 bed); Refurbishment of The Convent Building (Block E) into apartments consisting of 18 units (8 no. 1 bed, 5 no. 2 bed, 4 no. 3 bed, 1 no. 4 bed); Construction of Block F, a three/five storey building bordering Gloucester Lane to provide Dublin City Council with a Civic Centre/One Stop Shop (three storey at Sean McDermott Street, five storey at Railway Street), with a gross internal floor area of 3,112sqm; Construction of Block G, a four storey 901sqm office building incorporating the portico of the former Scots Presbyterian Church (Protected Structure) fronting Sean McDermott Street Lower; provision of 181 no. car parking spaces in a single level basement accessed via ramps from a new access point on Railway Street. Existing access into the site will also be retained from Sean McDermott Street; All associated site development works above and below ground required to facilitate the development, including the provision of landscaped public open space along Gloucester Lane and private and semi-private landscaped open space within the development and roof gardens and construction of an ESB sub station and switch room.

Ah, Im afraid I cant keep up with you folks and your secondary school Shakespeare quotes 🙂

Anyhow, what an odd montage! That the proposer has managed to include 9 vehicles in the foreground is quite an accomplishment…

The facade is lost in the glazed box. Bizarre that the lampost is left in front with that flag being a further visual obstruction. Why is the facade not presented as being clean and pristine – it is afterall Wicklow granite.

I cant describe this treatment and its relation the facade as an “afterthought”, as the facade predates the proposed glass box; is “a pre-thought” the best description?

All in all, the Greek Revival facade seems to be in the way of the architect; given what’s preposed, maybe the best thing is to carefully take the facade out, and with dev levies, locate it elsewhere – the original context is long since lost anyhow 🙁

Btw am I correct to presume that the giddy brown box further down the street is some sort of military installation?

@Irish Times wrote:

The signs were part of the deal between Dublin City Council and international advertising company JC Decaux to swap advertising space at locations around the city, estimated to be worth in the region of &#8364] for 450 bicycles and four public toilets.

LOL. Who’s estimate again? €1 Million over 15 years to the operator, while the Irish Times previously reported that deal is worth €85 million to the city…Hmmm so the charitable chaps in JC Decaux are making a €70 Million loss on the project. Lucky Dublin. The excellent standard of reporting on this matter by the IT continues :rolleyes:

From todays Independent

Free bike plan to go on despite billboards setback

By Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent
Tuesday February 12 2008

A CONTROVERSIAL “bicycles for billboards” deal is to go ahead despite 18 giant illuminated signs for Dublin being rejected yesterday because they might distract passing motorists and pedestrians.

An Bord Pleanala has approved just six smaller signs in the Henry Street area.

One of the world’s biggest advertising companies — JC Decaux — had planned 100 big electronic hoardings across the city in a deal with the city council that would see it provide 450 free public bicycles in return for planning permission.

Some 76 signs have already been approved without objection by Dublin City Council, which has done the deal with JC Decaux. However, out of a further 24 appealed to Bord Pleanala, only six smaller versions were approved by the board yesterday.

Rejected

The 18 “metropole” signs, 4.8m high and 3.4m wide and illuminated, were rejected.

Bord Pleanala agreed with objectors that they could pose dangers, as passing drivers could be distracted by reading the text. The decision to allow six smaller signs in the Henry Street, Mary Street, and Liffey Street area is bound to infuriate Arnotts and other city centre traders who had objected.

The board went against its own inspector in granting permission. JC Decaux had planned 70 signs and 50 advertising billboards across the city in return for providing 450 bicycles for rent from 25 locations.

A spokesperson for Dublin City Council said afterwards that the deal was still on track as it had been negotiated on the basis of the signs approved without any objections to An Bord Pleanala. Dubliners could expect to see the bicycles by the end of the year.

Objectors include Arnotts, the Dublin Transportation Office and An Taisce, who claim the signs will destroy the city streetscape and pose a traffic hazard.

– Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent