GregF
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True……but a compromise must be met ….you don’t want to end up either with something ‘Safe’ and mediocre…you know like a two storey red-brick eclectic fantasy.
…to add does the new development add substance and give the area a city-like quality.
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 23 March 2001).]
Dublin can be embarassing…..but it is a lot better than the condition it used to be in….acres of derelict sites, destruction of the historical fabric, inept misplaced new architecture …and all due to our ‘culchie’ country brethern TD politicians , councillors etc…..who new nothing of urban living (read it’s history)… ..and alot can be said too of the ‘Dirty Dub’ natives who knew nothing better…and still don’t. Dublin should be the jewel of the isle…..just like Paris etc….It should preserve and conserve it’s architectural heritage but welcome the new and dynamic. It should have the tallest building or whatever in the country…why not? It should have the big names of international architecture …why not? It is the capital of the country and it is incomprehensible why anyone from out side the city should resent it. After all nearly half the population ot the Republic live here….and a substantial ammount are from a provincial background. A city reflects how a people/society live….so if a city, especially a capital city is filthy, vandalised, with improper and inadequate facilities and infrastructure etc …well it says a lot then of the nation itself. We must change for the betterment of ourselves….must’nt we?
I see posters up around the locality saying ‘Save the Gaol’…..when in fact there is nothing to be done to the jail itself….(Ok maybe if they installed a more effective alarm system)….Tthe proposed development is across the road on a site that was never in it’s history an attraction….but just factories and warehouses. Give the development a chance ..it could be regarded as a brownfield site….could it not….anything would be better than what’s there already.
It’s gas is’nt it…..All the furore over the proposed developments for Smithfield (Fusano) as well as O’Connell Street ….meanwhile these mediocre crappy little developments are springing up everywhere while nobody (general public) bats an eyelid.
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 22 March 2001).]
There is another movie out now based on a Roddy Doyle novel (I can’t remember the name at the moment) but the trailer I saw of it with Dublin city looking really well in it as a backdrop. See the much hated O’Connell Bridge House (and looking good too)……sure maybe that is why Irish Joe Public hates Irish contemporary architecture…if it were only on the big screen and telly a bit more and seen in a favourable light we would get used to living in the 20th/21st century environment and not a mythological past.
I agree…I hope the Tara Street development gets the go ahead…..we need more distinctive buildings/landmarks for our capital. Afterall, it is the 21st century and we need symbols of our time. I’m all for conservation and restoration of our architectural past (don’t you dare put your greedy developers hand on it)….but when you have the likes of blank canvases such as the docks and insignificant and really run down areas of the city, give them the go ahead….build, build, build…of course once it is of a reasonably high standard. Belfast, Northern Ireland, despite their bigotry, bitterness and ‘backwardness’ is surpassing Dublin with the likes of the Waterfront Hall, the Odyssey Centre, etc…while we are still arguing over planning permission……the Dopes!
Well at least Pelican House sat comfortably on it’s spot/area…I don’t think the new proposal will do the same looking at the model. Maybe I’m wrong
Hi,
Example of old building of particular use not suitable for alternative contemporary use…….. the Museum of Modern Art…….aka the Royal Hospital Kilmainham. It’s display areas are rather awkward, too many nooks and crannies…..compare it to the Green on Red Gallery or the Royal Hibernian Academy….huge open spaces with huge blank walls.
However….example of old building of particular use suitable for alternative contemporary use…….. Collins’s Barracks…what a great display area and what a great job they did.…..have it connected with the ‘Museum Link’ particularly Kilmainham Gaol. Would the Magazine Fort be a bit too old and archaic for a science museum?…that could be built down the docks instead as a high tech modern facilty.
Ah….sure it’s a run of the mill development…nothing too radical as it should’nt be in this case…..but merely infill.
That is a great proposal…a military museum would far more appropriate considering the original usage of the Magazine Fort…(although our history of military campaigning can be described as a barbaric hotch potch of nationalism, colonialism and terrorism). However all are facts of our history so I think the ‘National Military Museum’ idea is very apt, why hide it?
I agree……that is very true….but is close in proxmity.
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 06 March 2001).]
This is not a bad proposal. There is a picture of what was proposed for the site in Frank McDonald’s book ‘The Construction of Dublin, which I think was refused planning permission. It was’nt that bad either. As I said before to faithfully reconstruct the garage would be somewhat of an anachronism, particularly when the original garage looked somewhat awkward in this Georgian red brick area. Those responsible for the demolishment of the building should have been heavily fined or sent to jail.
Hi Paul,
Can you remember High Street before it was a dual carriageway….when it was a compact little street before the road developers got their hands on it in the 1970’s /1980’s.When it was a more uniform street …..where buildings once stood on St.Audeons landscaped park and the back of Tailors Hall was hidden. There are photographs of how it once looked.The model of the proposal really looks crap….too stunted and too cluttered. What a messy insignificent design. The 3 mugs …are they the architects…..more than likely it was designed around a pub table.
[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 05 March 2001).]
I remember this where thickness prevailed……they demolished the church and kept the spire to used it as a selling point for a crass new mock Georgian scheme they built beside it. The spire now stands alone among weeds and an insult to housing design. Also around the same in the same locality time DC exhausts had another church completely demolished conviently on a Sunday morning.
Frank McDonald has an article in the Irish Times today about the Luas project and says that if it were been done in France there would be fanfare and celebration as the work proceeds…the same could be said if a similar project to Sports Campus Ireland were being built in France. But alas a substantial aspect of our beligerant moany ignorant Irish public cannot see the the wonderful benefits of such ‘grand projets’.
With the greenfield out of the way site let’s hope the architects run riot and come up with something dazzling.Well I think it would be of enormous benefit for the whole of the island. The cost is only a fraction of the budget. It will be magnificent for Irish sport …a Mecca…a Temple…and maybe it wiil encourage the couch potatoes to get up off their arses and actually participate in sport instead of watching it on the telly or more typically in the pub.
I watched the last part of the Late Late Show on Friday and the Minister of Sport McDaid was on and of course he was singing it’s praises. (I don’t support Fianna Fail…never have ..never will) However the show degenerated into one of those typical shows that we have seen down through the years. Remember all those debates over the years about the legalization of contraceptives, divorce, the Lotto,The Last Temptation of Christ etc…and how the audience would comment that ‘we dont want it here’ as it would have a detrimental effect on sacred little insular frugal Irish society. Well the same occured on Friday……florid faces ranting…it’s a waste of money…what about the homeless,what about the drugs problem, what about the hospital waiting lists, what about me mother inlaw…blah blah. Again, it was embarassing. McDaid replied that capital is been spent all round and in certain cases hospitals often return surplus funding. Another point he made too was that when ever the likes of a drug rehabilitation centre or a travellers halting site or anything for the unfoutunates of society is to be built in an area such so called ‘bleeding heart’ locals refuse point blank.Anyway, why not spend, spend, spend and build it, there is enormous potential….All sorts of events could be staged bringing in masses ammounts of revenue for the economy. The European Championships, European Cup Finals, Rugby World Cups…even the Olympics ….and why not? Look at the recent Odyssey Centre too that has recently been built up north. Full attendences at the ice hockey events. It is an enormous success.
The thing with us Irish is when we finally get anything it is only then that we realize how did we ever do without it. We are happy to make do with anything for the time, fear of change and the sense of the new, living miserable lives with only the drink as our entertainment dimming the brain to numb the pain.
When the stadium et al is complete I bet the public will then say ‘ah sure is’nt it wonderful’.To add Landsdowne Road is a ramshackle kip, it is an embarassing eyesore.I am fed up making excuses to any foreign guests who pay a visit for a game. To redevelop it no doubt would meet objections from the locals hence the Abbotstown green field site proposal. Croke Park is out of bounds due to the GAA’s archaic gombeen ethos. Why build it in Dublin? …well it is the capital, has better infrastructure and almost half the population of the country live here.
Also the late president of France did wonders for the city of Paris continuing their tradition of grandiose urban design….and Parc de France is a magnificent arena.
No harm either if Bertie tries in some way to emulate him.[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 27 February 2001).]
Howdy Folks,
The Irish general public are ‘dimwits’ regarding architecture which is why they need to be educated! Let’s have more arts and culture education in schools.
I agree in part with you Pete….but I did say that the council and corpo depts could be far more efficient in cleaning. (They are still learning, as it’s all new to us.) As for the comments regarding us been a filthy lot almost barbarian….well I stand by that. See the ammount of illegal dumping being done. There was a great programme on Prime Time last year which hi-lighted this…dead dogs,auld beds, household rubbish,fridges were all dumped the side of a particular road. Note too the Liffey at low tide.
Visit any suburb too and see that for every respectable presentable household see also a dirty kip with wrecks of cars in the front garden, weeds up to the window, gates hanging off the pillars, grafitti, petty vandalism, snotty nose kids, wild dogs, stray cats. I know as I live’d in such a suburb. And when such people visit the city centre they bring their hygene ethos or well lack of it with them. Note, all the chewing gum too stuck to the pavements especially on the newly repaved Henry Street even with bins provided. (Realistically too, Ireland has one of the youngest populations in Europe, that can be a factor ….young rebellious and stupid) Great subject material for Roddy Doyle and Frank McCourt…but all true…and when you think that according to Stanley Kubrick and Arthur C Clark we’d be all living on big wheels in space in 2001AD.Cheers!
