GrahamH
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π
Well let’s start at the beginning then – part (a) of subsection 3 of Section 58 sates that… π
Thanks for that ctesiphon and Thomond Park – most insightful, particularly the notion of long-term occupiers seemingly having equal responsibility as the owners, as implied in: ‘consistent with the rights and obligations arising out of their respective interests’.
I also note with interest the inclusion in the description of ‘works’ of ‘the removal or alteration of any advertisement structure.’
Would this only apply to advertisments added post protected/ACA status being imposed?In relation to the ‘Georgian block’ as one would expect really none of the buildings in the terrace are protected with the exception of the corner Kylemeore building. However they do of course fall under the ACA status of the street, and so their condition and welfare is still in control of the City Council.
This statement really says it all: that an authority may serve notice if ‘the structure is in an architectural conservation area and, in the opinion of the planning authority, it is necessary, in order to preserve the character of the area, that the structure be restored.’
The implications here are pretty obvious, and not just in relation to this terrace. There’s quite a few buildings on Lower O’Cll St that are in poor condition, not to mention the none too minor point that that all ACAs and PSs in the city fall under this legislation, whatever about the country at large.
Even so, in the case of a building that is simply a bit tatty, eg in poor decorative order with just cosmetic problems, can the rather severe stipulation of ‘in the opinion of the planning authority, the character of the structure or of any of its elements ought to be restored’ be brought to bear?
Are there any laws anymore similar to the lease stipulations often made by the great Victorian estates?
That is laws rather than lease-induced controls?
Surely there’s loads still in active use in towns and villages across the UK?Overall though, I’m very surprised that these safeguards are in place – always assumed there was nothing considering the lack of action on so many properties on the street. It certainly implies this.
Well there’s a couple of bikes that have to be cleared away first π
Are HPT leasing all the kiosks? What’s their standard of service etc do you know?To be honest I’ve never been enamored with the concept of kiosks on the median. Not to be overly negative – but I really don’t see their need. It’s not as if they’re providing a unique service, or a pleasant location-specific service where needed like on the Boardwalks.
They’re just an acknowledgement of how the street currently isn’t living up to what it it’s going to hopefully be.
It is a thoroughfare lined with buildings designed to hold retail outlets – I fail to see the need for more dumped into the middle of the street, where the buses roaring by hardly make it pleasant to sit down either. What’ll be really damaging though is if all that ridiculous rubbish like gas heaters and parasols and partitions come in too.What do you mean about the doorway being filled in – around all the sides of the doorway opening being filled, or the depth of the reveal (the end part of the wall that stands proud of the door)?
The only answer is to install a half door, in keeping with the house.
Only messin :). Yes it would have been a timber door originally – exactly what style I don’t know, perhaps others can help, but I’d imagine it would be a pretty simple affair made up primarily if not entirely of vertical timbers, with perhaps a small window in the middle.
Far be it from be to tell you what you should get :), but I’d certainly keep it simple if doing it myself.
It’s quite easy to succumb to twee country-kitchen designs with triangualar windows in the middle and Tudor hardware etc, or overly elaborate doors with stained glass that a salesperson will throw at you upon mentioning Edwardian.Simplicity is at the very heart of rural design, and a simple vertical timbered door is probably what I’d go for with your house, perhaps with a small window about a foot square high in the middle if necessary.
Simple timber doors also allow you to play with the appearance of your house, as you can paint them any colour under the sun and your house will always look great if the windows and the building overall are simple in design, which your house is.
I said earlier that your windows would have been painted white – rather it’s likely they were, but also bottle green and other rather drab but interesting period colours could have been used.
If you do go for sashes, try and make sure they’re as refined as possible. A lot of modern joiners assemble rather clunky looking yokes that clearly stand out as being the poor replicas that they are.
Emphasise to the joiners the importance of the slenderness of the sash timbers, and concealing as much of the holding frame as possible either in the wall, or making it as small as possible if exposed.
If they’re unsure as to what you mean, it’s likely they don’t appreciate a good-looking sash. One of the main concerns of experienced joiners is the slenderness of the timbers.Morlan you seem to have thought this through – please, elaborate π
Good one Hutton π
Who owns this site, aside from the ‘Atlantic Tunnel Corportation’ :rolleyes:
DonΓ’β¬β’t know, though it would make sense for work to get underway while the rest of the street is in chaos Γ’β¬β get it over and done with.
IΓ’β¬β’m sure theyΓ’β¬β’re delighted with the digger thatΓ’β¬β’s been ripping up the pavement outside the front door for the past week πSome bits and pieces here about one of the least noted terraces on O’Connell St – what I tend to loosely term the ‘Georgian Block’.
Its brick elevations are different from the other granite and Portland stone clad terraces of Upper O’Cll St because it was built post-1916 rather than post-1922.
It has a more traditionally Georgian appearance than the terraces of Lwr O’Cll St presumably because of the quite domineering 18th century converted houses that still mostly covered the site before destruction. Indeed taking away the corner Kylemore building which disrupts the symmetrical design of the terrace (just like the pre-destruction corner building that was out of place), you are left with a row of buildings which replicate exactly the Georgian scale of the pre-1916 block.Interestingly the terrace still displays elements of the integrated scheme drawn up after 1916 Γ’β¬β with the emphasis placed on accommodating commercial activity on a large scale on the reconstructed street.
Most if not all of the retail units in this block were, and still are, long and rectangular in shape, with high ceilings and cornicing Γ’β¬β quite formatted in nature, all lined up alongside each otherUnfortunately most of the terrace has been allowed fall into a semi-derelict state as can be seen here. Look at the difference between a restored property and the appalling condition of all the others:
And again with a close-up of windows:
This terrace features a delightful array of Edwardian style (though not in period) windows, many if not all with original shimmering glass. Alas much of these have been allowed fall into not only disrepair, but what looks like decay. What is the likelihood now of some of these original post-1916 pieces of architectural fabric having to be replaced, or parts replaced, as a result of neglect?
It is areas like these that make the lack of progress on property on the street so frustrating. Whoever owns these buildings couldnΓ’β¬β’t give a damn as to their condition, their only outlook being Γ’β¬ΛgroundfloorismΓ’β¬β’, concerning themselves with counting the cash from the cheap shops that occupy their pavement frontages.
McDowellΓ’β¬β’s and the owner of the First Active building are the only ones who have made an effort, and what an effort. Their properties look magnificent, especially this splendid Edwardian window (have another pic soon of an interesting detail about how these were originally decorated)
Contrast that with this – not quite a direct comparison, but the difference in condition is light years apart.
These upper floors probably havenΓ’β¬β’t been touched in 30 years. Their appalling condition is exactly the same, indeed more pronounced, since the IAP was published 7 years ago.
It is annoying the CC can do nothing about this. Whatever happened to the by-laws of old? Is it considered an infringement of Γ’β¬Λpersonal rightsΓ’β¬β’ that local authorities cannot force owners in designated areas to keep their buildings in good condition? Are by-laws like Victorian seven-year painting rules so antiquated and irrelevant Γ’β¬β have we really gone so far down the individualistic route?
Is it not in the common interest that owners face basic responsibilities like keeping what are prominent properties in an acceptable state?@phil wrote:
It would be very upsetting to finish 5 years of study and end up producing things like that.
lol – funny use of words.
Visions of young architects with heads in hands crying at their desks with reams of drawings of mini-pediments and underscaled porticos spread out in front – mourning the dashed hopes of bright and successful futures outside the world of the pastiche brigade π
I couldn’t agree more about colour temperature as you’ve raised before – not a nit-picky issue in the slightest!
Not that the tacky green installed in the first place is worthy of replicating with replacement bulbs :rolleyes:
The whole quay lighting scheme needs to be reviewed, or rather one needs to be put in place!
An integrated scheme with regular posts along the entire length of the Liffey from Heuston to the Custom House, as well as proper sustainable bridge lighting, not a gimmicky short-term scheme ought to be put in place.But the big problem with colour temperature is with the lighting of major buildings such as lighting one half in nasty orange sodium and the other in white, and other similar ridiculous practices.
This is basic basic stuff.Why is it that modern-day Georgianistas must build to intimidate original Georgian development?!
It’s as if they’re saying ‘this is how it’s done’ – ‘you could learn a thing or two from us’ :rolleyes:Yes – aside from the fact that the unusual annex should not have been delisted in the first instance, aside from pastiche not being needed here, and aside from the scale of the proposed development – the design is utterly woeful!
Look at the ground floor there, it’s like an 1800 row of tiny fishermen’s cottages on a dirty little lane that have had pediments tacked on, and oh, four storeys piled up on top.The proportions, both in themselves and in relation to the area are so way off the scale it looks like a joke.
And why do developers always insist on using British Georgian over here too?! Mansard roofs indeed…
(though yes you see the odd one down south)Never thought of that – though there’s quite a few of them…
Yes the way they messed around with locations and buildings like playthings in a toy town certainly lost it a lot of credibility – especially this street opposite the GPO, with the geography of the city being so central to the Rising.
Agreed Plug about the lighting of the bridges – whatever about the replacement colour temperatures, most of the fittings aren’t even lucky enough to get replacement bulbs at all!
And as for the fittings themselves…..there’s some pics on the bridge poll thread.π
Oh go on then:
The Mansion House, Leinster House railings, Sheahan Memorial and Hammam Hotel all on the same street!!!
Generally these small posts can look very well traditionally styled as long as the major posts of the roadway provide clear guidance as to what century it is π
I’d be happy to see every last replica on the quays ditched in favour of contemporary posts, but with a more traditionally styled smaller post along the historic quay walls. And not necessarily a twee ‘olden days’ lamp, but something along the lines of the recent lamps that went up along Strand Road on the way out to Blackrock – they’re distinctly modern yet have a classical early-electric look to them which works very well.Just on those c1903 posts on O’Connell St again – took a few stills from the film Michael Collins and must admit to being a little more than pleased at finding this π :
The posts on Harcourt St are the exact same posts that were on O’Cll St in the early 20th century – indeed the film reproduced them absolutely perfectly, down to the last detail! Also interesting to note that the globes were of a lovely frosted glass rather than completely opaque as usually comes across in contemporary photos.
The film also tells us that there’s at least someone in the City Council interested in these matters as presumably the art directors and researchers consulted with the CC on the street furniture of O’Cll St of the time. So clearly someone knew where to direct them towards original examples…
Which is why it is so very strange in light of this attention to detail (and lots more) that Jordan decided to merge the two streets opposite the GPO together into an imaginary street – Talville Row as it were π
You don’t want to see the stills of that, they’re too embarrassing….Regency London comes to Tralee :rolleyes:
They’re just like that ghastly addition made to Fairview Crescent in the 80s.Is the Parnell Square site being filled in at last?!
@kefu wrote:
Indeed during the course of works ten bullet holes were identified in the figure of O’Connell alone with two bullets through his right temple. In all approximately thirty bullet holes were counted in total on the monument.
Fascinating that there are so many bullet holes! No doubt some of them were direct pot-shots at him from the river…
Can’t wait to see what the Monument looks like – apparently most of not all of the scaffolding is coming down this afternoon. I see they mention granite again in the press release :rolleyes:
The speed with which the monuments on the street have been tackled is very impressive, and largely finished in time for the summer tourist season too.
A job well done by the contractors and City Council, and money well spent.23/5/2005
Arrrggh – those flippin College Green trees in the way again!! And this time 100 million people looking at them! π
Even so it was still our best effort in recent years, and the first ever live backdrop RTΓβ° have ever provided for Eurovision as far as I’m aware! Only a bit too live – for most of the link the 14A was sitting at the pedestrian lights completely obliterating the BoI :rolleyes:
Just typical, you stand at those lights for a solid minute every single day, and the only time they instantly change and hold the traffic up is in full view of half of Europe! – when they’re needed to keep it flowing!Also Trinity’s floodlighting useless as per usual. Indeed some of their lights are facing downwards lighting the grass cause the hinges have gone! If I was that OB director now I’d have brought a handful fo bricks along – not to prop the lights up, but to chuck at the manager of the Maintenance Dept at Trinity College π‘
(I think it’s best for all concerned that we gloss over how I acquired that image :D)
Yes this is one of the most common misconceptions about timber windows – they do not need to be painted annually at all.
Indeed windows in a particularly sheltered elevation can last up to 8-10 years without repainting, even if the the vibrancy of the colour may have deteriorated somewhat by that stage.Five years is the average interval between painting with standard paint. What could be causing the misconception is modern exposed timber windows like beech etc, or 1980s softwood windows that are stained with Sadolin etc which all probably need more attention, as the water and UV penetrative protection of such products I presume isn’t as strong as the shielding skin that paint provides.
People are often turned off painted timber windows as everyone knows of decaying window horror stories from the 60s and 70s, or have nightmareish images of flaking paint, build-ups of paint, clumsy streaks of paint over the glass, bubbling cracking paint etc etc.
All of this can be avoided if surfaces are prepared well before painting, and care is paid when applying to make for a neat job.
Perhaps the biggest cause of problems with timber decay is that people tend to paint their windows when they want to change the colour rather than for the good of the window. The 5/6 year rule needs to be stuck to for the structural soundness of the frames rather than for aesthetic reasons.An annual inspection of the windows also helps – and a washing of the glazing bars and frames too when cleaning the glass goes along way towards making them look good for as long as possible.
If this pattern is followed, along with a complete stripping of the windows every half century or so :), timber windows can last for well in excess of 200 years with little to no structural repairs.No doubt your sashes were largely as sound as a bell before the previous owners dumped them π
Definitely ask neighbours what they remember of the original windows – or try contacting the previous owners if you know of them: always the best source of info for replica windows.It has to go, there’s no way two lines of cars can be allowed park here as part of the new scheme.
But it would seem they are to be moved – they’re not included in the IAP drawings – allbethey 7 years old at this stage…
Does anyone know the link to that page posted before of recent plans for Upper O’Cll St? It should be included in that.
For the time being anyway during the works the taxi rank is being moved up to outside the Gate.Buses are the death of Marlborough St alright – they make it so hostile for pedestrians, as well as significantly narrowing the street making it just unpleasant full stop for all users. And yes that office building,….can it even be described as such?!
Here’s an entirely unfair view of the poles of Lower O’Connell St – but interesting nonetheless π
And the bikes:
Hi Sinead,
re the exposed timber windows – sorry I came across as narky – I mentioned the exposed timber in response to the fact that you were looking at timber grain effect PVCs, and in the context of your looking for appropriate windows for your house I said that your house would never have had such windows – windows that the woodgrain PVC would be imitating.As for the aluminium, by all means criticise in a blanket way – it’s awful!! Well okay attractive designs are possible, but largely not for the domestic market. But primarily, like PVC, it is an environmentally damaging material to produce – this is why most people are against the material and why they’re against the 20-30 year lifespan of PVC. It is not sustainable to produce such a material that requires huge volumes of energy to produce, and is rarely recycled – and the icing on the cake being it only lasts for a short period of time.
But on this forum, as you might expect, people are concerned about the visual impact of these clunky, non-original, inappropriate designs and materials being used in historic vernacular buildings such as your house.
It is a beautiful structure as I’m sure you’re only too well aware, esp with that delightful monkeypuzzle out the front π – it deserves the very best, and that is its original timber sash windows.
Nothing will look quite as good as these, and if you’re interested in resale value and saleablity, brand new timber sash windows, in keeping with the architecture of the building and with its rural context will benefit you significantly over other frames.
As regards maintenance – a coat of paint every five years is all that is required, along with a light sanding before painting to remove loose paint – along with the odd check on the running of the sashes and oiling of wheels if necessary, usually checked with the painting.Thank you for the picture you posted, the proportions are highly suggestive of simple one-over-one sashes. It is 99.99% likely that your house had sashes – as good as gauranteed – and about 70% likely it had one-over-ones. Painted white.
If you have the exact date of your house that would help further in identification of glazing patterns.Hope this is of some help.
