GrahamH
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Could be a Mrs Park for all we know π
Agreed that Dr Quirkey’s is in a dismal state now – though it has to be mentioned that it was warmly welcomed by most when first erected, and rightly so, after years of a gaping hole in the streetscape. Does Richard Quirke own this site?
I don’t think it’s a bad solution for the problem, just the condition is now poor.
An innovative shroud for the site is an exciting idea.It is extraordinary all right – they have five stores within a 1/2 mile radius including two on O’Connell St, one at the top of Westmoreland St, one on Henry St and another again on Suffolk St! Whatever about the other 2/3 dotted about the place as well…
Yes there is a listing of ‘higher order’ uses – what a pompous phrase that is – in the IAP, ACA Plan & SPCS.
However Carroll’s doesn’t quite fit into any of these categories, not quite being a convenience store or an amusement arcade (though that’s open to interpretation :)).All uses that are banned full-stop for ground floors (and some first floors) are:
Γ’β¬β outlets selling hot food for consumption off the premises
Γ’β¬β fast food outlets
Γ’β¬β night clubs
Γ’β¬β newsagents/convenience stores
Γ’β¬β phone call centres/internet cafes (only at ground or first floor level)
Γ’β¬β Automated Teller Machines and Automatic Teller Machine Lobbies
Γ’β¬β Amusement arcadesWith the the definitions of fast food and convenience store being:
Fast Food Outlet: An outlet that sells hot and cold food and drinks, served packed and wrapped and
without waiter service.
Newsagents/Convenience Shop: A retail outlet that sells a range of goods including newspapers and
magazines, confectionary, soft drinks, cigarettes, fresh and prepacked foods, prepared cold foods for
consumption of the premises.“Planning permission will be refused for any one of these uses or for an extension to one of these uses.”
Also:
“…the change of use of a shop or part of a shop to a premises trading as a newsagents/convenience store, supermarket, off-licence, pharmacy or sex shop will now constitute a change of use and will require planning permission.”The idea of the ‘interesting’ definition of a sex shop being draughted by a civil servant in a grey wool suit is rather amusing :). I won’t post it though, not suitable for such delicate eyes π
There’s also a host of other uses like call centres and betting offices etc mentioned for change of use needing permission. Presumably it was under this provision that Paddy Power were refused permission for their proposed premises.
If Carroll’s are opening yet another store, there is no way thay should be allowed until they at least sort out their Upper O’Connell St store which is a disgrace in appearance. The worst element is the music blasting out of the premises – both out of the open doors and by a loudspeaker erected outside the shop!
This is expressly forbidden, with good reason, by the SPCS Plan which states: “No amplified announcements, music or other material should be played from any premises to advertise goods or services and no loudspeakers or other amplification apparatus should be affixed on or about the front of any premises for such a purpose. Any such sounds within the premises should be controlled so as to be inaudible from adjoining premises or at 2 metres from the frontage.” (emphasis added)
Not only can the music be heard more than 2 metres away from the premises, ‘A Nation Once Again’ can be heard at the other side of the flippin street outside the Savoy!
It really is bandit country up there on Upper O’Connell St – the CC ought to have been propagating the ‘pride & improvement’ culture only now materialising on Lower O’Connell St on the Upper end in anticipation of works.
Rather it is in exactly the same state, if not worse due to physical deterioration, as it was seven years ago.As the Special Planning Control Scheme highlights towards the end:
“The provisions of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act 2000 will be used to safeguard endangered buildings and to seek the restoration of specified structures.”
@jimg wrote:
the DDDA are venemently opposed to anything taller that suburban office park style six story buildings.
This has been (rightly so I think) pointed out so many times, but you tend to gloss over the central point at this stage – is it actually DDDA policy to keep to 5/6 storeys, with ‘landmarks’ shooting up from that backdrop, or is a higher 10ish storey carpet going to be built in these newer phases, for the ‘landmarks’ to stand against?
That early?
Suppose we tend to associate dual-carriageways with motorways, which didn’t come about till the 50s in the UK anyway…These (rather limited) details were posted before if they’re of any help – the application may have changed a bit though in the few months since. The quality and extent of intended works is impressive.
…some of the details of their latest planning application.
In relation to the windows, there’s a wooden one in the centre as well as to the left of it that’s to be replaced with an original design, presumably in steel.
The tatty ticket office in the centre of the ground facade is to be replaced with a Portland stone pillar/centrepiece.
The mosic and illuminated adertisment-clad piers to each end of the facade are also to be removed and replaced with Portland stone piers ‘in character with the upper floors’.
Also it has applied for ‘maintainance in situ’ of existing silver-clad canopy. Why are they applying for maintenance?
Finally, the basement lightwell grids are to be removed and paved over with granite when the street itself is tackled.Also as J Seerski highlighted, the Gresham are upgrading and now have 2 vast applications in their windows.
One of the primary aims is to ‘remove all non-original windows in nos 20-23’ i.e. the whole facade of the hotel.
Presumably this means bye bye aluminum – hello double glazed steel…Also a pic of the upper facade, including the two windows on the second floor to be replaced – the centre one and the frame to the left.
It’s a magnificent piece of architecture – a perfect modern classical interpretation I think…
The attention to architectural detail gave it away, esp ‘stripped Classical style’; the Times & Sunday Times are generally the only two papers that ever go into such detail – certainly not the Indo.
Anyway, the article does have some interesting information about the major restoration/refurbishment job undertaken by McCabe Design, including:
From the Irish Independent 8th of June 2005
Partially by Con Power π“After some research in the Irish Architectural Archive, we managed to locate a number of images of the Savoy interior and exterior taken between 1933 and 1960,” the design firm relates. “Of particular importance from the design point of view were the images of the interior, as these would provide the conceptual springboard from where we could start any new interior design.”
The main image of the 1932 foyer showed highly decorative ceilings, columns and polished marble floors along with evidence of dark wood panelling around the walls. Most of this interior was removed during refurbishment to the cinema in the 1960s.
“While we did not wish to replicate the interior to the exact details shown, inspiration was drawn from the period styling and quality of the materials used,” McCabe adds. “During the initial strip-out, we found evidence of the original plaster ceiling rose centrepieces. We decided to replicate these as centrepieces in the new development from which the ceiling chandeliers could be hung.”
After some more research of chandelier designs from the 1930s and with the help of Falks Lighting, Terenure, a design was decided upon. The chandeliers were then custom manufactured in Italy to the specifications provided.
“We always felt the floor finish would be of major importance and after several samples provided we decided to use the Nero Marquina porcelain tile imported from Italy,” the designers add. It was felt from an early stage that the main staircases leading to the first floor would be a major focal point in the space. In order to give the visual effect of two grand staircases, Lough Construction spent considerable time providing different templates on step designs to give the feel that was required.
The flooring effect was continued up the staircases to the first level, along with a custom designed and manufactured carpet, manufactured by PFL carpets in Limerick. The carpet features a stylised version of a fan design inspired by research of the 1930s. “The evidence in early photos showed a dark wood panelling around the foyer space,” McCabe Design adds. “We decided to use walnut as the main wood material for all major joinery in the space. As the grain in walnut was so regular we designed the walnut wall panelling in its simplest form possible. We felt there was no need for unnecessary raised panel details.
“We accented the panelling with 5mm stainless steel strips which were rebated into its surface. This helped to visually link the wall treatment to the custom stainless steel hand rails which were placed to the interior as required to satisfy current regulations. All the lighting for the refurbished foyer was fitted with warm colour bulbs in an effort to replicate the warm tungsten light evident from 1930’s lighting.”
Ends
I was was in the Savoy a couple of times recently, and it is indeed a magnificent job. The walnut panelling really stands out as it has a very prominent grain which is just beautiful. Also the timber has just been lightly treated so it retains much of its natural quailities. And the rebated steel strips mentioned above offer it a contemporary twist whilst still retaining a classic look.
The plaster ceiling in the lobby, the glittering chandeliers and the black tiled floor are all very impressive, as is the carpeting throughout the rest of the building which generates a luxurious air in the corridors – again the design is appropriate to the origins of the building.
Overall a job very well done – perhaps the panelling has a slightly tacked-on appearance to it, but that could be just down to the impression one gets in light of the amount of cheap panelling jobs one sees nowadays.
The new ticket office is equally impressive, which makes it all the more irritating that such a botched job was executed outside, particularly on the shopfront of the ticket office itself which is just ghastly if you’ve seen it.
Just a large expanse of glass with yet more horizontal broad strips of that silver muck used on the porch tacked onto it.If this could be reversed, along with some quality timber entrance doors for the foyer, it would be a job very well done.
Also no mention in the Indo article of the proposals for the exterior alterations soon to get underway – assuming they’re happening…Paul – are you aware that the Indo article has been partially stripped word for word from Archiseek? Again?!
Forgot this – from the official site:
“The President must reside in or near Dublin”
So the President doesn’t necessarily have to live in the ΓΒras!
And if you can be bothered to look up the Consitiution, it confims this – stating:
“The President shall have an official residence in or near the City of Dublin.”
However, ‘near’ is not defined…
Despite what one may think of the President living in such a stately pile, when you see the amount of tiring hand-shaking ‘engagements’ he/she has to endure weekly, it is clear that an appropriate ‘base’ is needed, that if nothing else is simply large and adaptable enough to cater for the varied nature and amount of guests being recieved.
Having foreign dignitaries being recieved in a 3-bed semi sitting room in Blanchardstown is hardly an option π
Interesting though that the President can choose to live elsewhere, even if they’d have to commute like everyone else to the ΓΒras two or three days a week.Also just of interest from the Constitution:
2. The President shall receive such emoluments and allowances as may be determined by law.
3. The emoluments and allowances of the President shall not be diminished during his term of office.There was definitely a huge structure plonked in the middle of the bridge for something as there’s a picture of it in another pub π on Talbot St.
Really quite extraordinary – you’d never get that kind of thing today. Suppose these days if you want spectacle you just use fireworks, electronics of inflatable floats. In those days if you wanted big, you had to physically build it.Saying that, as Frank’s pictures show the French still have their own way of doing things…
Yes some really lovely stuff in there, including Gandon’s most forgotton building – perhaps with good reason π
An architectural trail is an interesting idea – does the Ashtown Centre cover this area at all, or is it primarily reserved for nature etc? Perhaps it could be done as part of the centre’s remit of explaining the park and its history.
Is it this for the Eucharistic Congress in 1932?
There was another, more elaborate one in the centre of the bridge too for something else – possibly An Tostal before being replaced with ‘that’ flowerbed etc π
π
How very interesting, thanks for all that.
Yes the original red brick house was a very handsome mid-Georgian building – think I have a picture somewhere of it.
It’s a pity that while the garden front benefited greatly it would seem from the alterations and additions made, the original house facade did not – including as you say Johnston’s portico, which looks a bit strange now smothered in white, and how it covers the fanlight etc.
Great story about the Victoria and Albert trees – how ironic Albert died off π
Is it the single tree centered off the garden portico at the far end of the formal gardens that is the surviving Victoria tree?Agreed about the Viceregal being chosen as the residence in the end, it’s great to have so much history attached to it. Surprising in a way that there was opposition to it being used for the Presidency considering there seems to have been great satisfaction in taking over Dublin Castle and other traditionally Bristish strongholds – one would have assumed the taking of the Lodge would have been executed with great relish :).
Just on Clements, I remember watching a programme on the BBC about a year ago, and the Phoenix Park and the Viceregal Lodge were mentioned for some reason – it really stood out as you don’t hear places like that being mentioned very often on British telly – but at the end, the very final credit for the executive producer was for a man none other than Nathaniel Clements!
Spooky…(I hope to visit the ΓΒras during the summer as you mention it :))
In the case of Westmoreland St, unfortunately there is an even a higher level of ‘use and abuse’; it is used even more so as a pedestrian and vehicular corridor.
If a ballot were to be held for the zapping into oblivion of Westmoreland St from the city of Dublin, probably 95% would vote in favour, in the knowledge that it serves no function at all other than to lengthen the journey from Henry St to College Green, or to act as an inconvienient place to get (off) the bus.
Unfortunately as said before, the closure of Bewley’s has merely added to this.It is extraordinary that the three most important streets in Dublin in spatial terms, are those that are most neglected in terms of use. Were it not for the historic importance of O’Connell St, D’Olier St is the one that really should have been the first to be tackled of The Big Three.
It has to be said though that these changes thus far have proved remarkably successful in reducing the volumes on the street overall – particularly as said the southbound eastern carriageway, which is often so empty (esp Upper O’Cll St), it is a doddle for pedestrians to cross the road pretty much anywhere – dangerously so at times if you you’re lazy enough to assume the roadway is always devoid of traffic.
Also the traffic light sequencing rather pleasantly makes large stretches of road empty of traffic by holding most of it up for decent periods π
I read a statistic recently about pedestrians on O’Connell St, presumably from just prior to the works, that 40-45% of all pedestrians on O’Connell St are just there to get a bus!
Hopefully things have changed a bit since then, and will continue to do so.Ah now Dave – I’m sure you wouldn’t like to see a 10 storey building, regardless of the design, competing with the Four Courts as you suggest.
Think of the cold hard reality of that, impinging on the classic views of the capital’s signature building. You wouldn’t have any objection to that?
The drum of the Four Courts has, an admittedly advantageous, dominant position on the riverscape of the city – this ought to be respected, as should the height of the immediate area of the historic core of the city. Just as any ‘landmark’ buildings of the 21st century ought to be respected by a subservient lower-rise backdrop, so should this 18th century ‘landmark’ building.
The concept is no different.As for ‘not getting anywhere’ unless we have tall buildings – should cities be rated simply on the height of their buildings?
Should Dublin be littered with tall buildings purely to keep up with other cities, and in the process become just that – ‘any other city’?Much of Dublin’s identity stems from being low-rise – this should be protected in the immediate city centre, with ‘landmark’ developments pushed over to the Docklands, which by all accounts is the perfect setting as you describe.
π
Unfortunately, in real life many of them have nowhere to live, unlike these yokes…
Some interesting pics – the lady there also seems to be interested π (though that’s only cause people always look at what you’re taking a pic of – somewhat embarrassing if it’s a kerbstone or somesuch)
I wonder if the lights were originally attached to their own pole rather than the lamppost?
They seem to have a more 60s appearance to them than the 50s perhaps…
Either way they’re in remarkably good condition – says lot for a bit of maintenance.As for the lamppost, yes it would seem to be early 20th century – c1920s. This period always has smooth rather than fluted bases, and the ridged detailing finishing off the base is just classic of the period. It was probably painted green originally.
Isn’t it interesting though how times change. The picture on the right perfectly encapsulates the differences in attitudes towards street furniture – whatever about the poles’ positioning, look at their design. The contrast between the highly decorative and well-finished lamppost, and the crude unfinished galvanised steel traffic poles couldn’t be any more stark.
At least the older traffic pole being removed will help somewhat in the clutter stakes, but agreed that the new ones should have been placed a few more feet away from the lamp column.
Considering the pole next to the crossing will probably be used as a new pedestrian light (badly needed here), what sort of design should the comtemporary signal assume?You seem to have a genuine concern about this issue Paul, so could I ask you (in a not smart way), which do you think is more worthy of pursuing – the planning authorities to enforce legislation, or the planning authorities to come around to your advertising concept?
You’re having a laugh?!
Saying that, the OPW have had practice with the PVCs in Leinster House & National Museum. It is a disgrace that they are using PVC, firstly in historic buildings, and secondly as a mere temporary measure. Are these going to be recycled afterwards? And what of the costs involved?
Why can’t simple wooden boards be erected in place of the windows being restored like in any normal restoration project?
If necessary they could be painted black with the sash outline painted on to maintain continuity.Here’s a no doubt well worn example of appalling PVC frames inserted into a key historic building – the pub on the corner of Amiens St and Talbot St in Dublin. It is but the third building to greet visitors to the city from Connolly Station, and the most notable from being positioned directly in front of the pedestrian lights.
The windows out of view in this pic on the apex of the building are truly ghastly. They’re the same as the ones facing Amiens St there, but as the primary feature of the apex they are an abomination, not least because they’re the older variety of PVC and have become very tatty, and also have never been cleaned it seems.
Interestingly though, from this first floor vantage point across the road you can see a single original timber sash still extant to the rear of the building. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was retained just to appease the fire officer as none of the other windows can be escaped through :rolleyes:
Wow – what an impressive collection of buildings, were they all demolished?
Sorry Dave, what building is this that you posted – it can get a bit difficult at times to associate all the buildings mentioned with the pics posted:
https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=786
