GrahamH
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This ‘continuity of design’ arguement is one being increasingly spouted in this country of late, based on safety concerns. Has this been proven internationally?
Are varying types of high standard road not compatible in forming a road network?
Isn’t there a membership fee to use the Common Room – €100 a year or something?
Roused a bit of controversy about this time last year…Sounds like a magnificent place up there!
I think a poll on this building is needed. It is a landmark development for the capital in more than just the usual ‘status’ stakes.
If this building sets a precedent for scattered development in the city, we can say goodbye to Dublin as we know it. However if it remains as a single ‘iconic’ entrance point to the city from the west, and is protected as such in successive development plans and by the CC, it could have a role to play in both marking the beginning of the city coming from the west, as well as defining the extent of the existing low-rise city by denoting its western boundary from the east.
But of course key is the impact on the setting of the Royal Hospital, Dr Steven’s Hospital and Heuston. I don’t know the area well enough to comment, indeed even if one does it’s still difficult to make out where it’s going to rise out of the landscape and the impact, if any, it will have.
Personally I would object hugely to the concept of a 15 or 20 storey building here – how horrendous would a squat deleopment like that be in the context of the low-rise nature of the area.
But a 30+ storey building completely detaches itself from the surrounding space in a way that may allow it to sit quite well within that historic setting – provided it complements rather than intimidates the existing context.As for the design, think it’s just pretty mundane all in all – not bad, not fantastic, just pretty average, bit boring even. Difficult to make out the finish in the renderings.
Maybe this juxtaposing of new and old is just a passing fad, and we’ll all be utterly incredulous in 20 years time of the ignorance of this generation, or perhaps it’s here to stay…
Sue, I’ve often wondered if you are Sue Denham of The Sunday Times? Just you’ve said before you use a pseudonym – just as the ST opinion writer does.
If you don’t want to comment, fair enough!😀
Well they have a certain appeal – though most people would probably prefer horses today.
Were the Blue Hussars part of the Free State Army?
Fascinating about Edward’s train carriage – you learn something new every minute here!
But what about the ‘new’ Presidential carriage Seamus refers to that O’Ceallaigh used, where is it now – or was this one of the old regime’s carriages too?Well it’s inevitable that Jacqueline O’Brien’s hackneyed picture of the fantastically vulgar State Drawing Room will turn up sooner or later so might as well post it now 😀
What’s interesting is that the chandelier that hangs here originally came from the Castle according to the Ãras website. I’d often wondered this considering that the four corner specimens in the Throme Room disappeared over the years, presumably after the 1941 fire.
The one in the Drawing Room must be one of them. Wonder where the others ended up – anyone know?
Just as an aside, here’s the Throne Room’s central chandelier today in all its splendour. It’s been tweaked a bit over the years if you compare the two pics. According to the site again, they commemorate the Act of Union.
Very suspicious requests Michael 😉
But yes, what does the upstairs interior look like, esp the Viceregal Suite – does it have the same layout and similar decor to pre-independence?
The upstairs of many of these big houses are just rabbit warrens of unremarkable rooms, and the official site says that they’re mostly used for Presidential archives etc – but even so, surely the Suite must be of significance?
(listen to me trying to pawn off plain noseyness as architectural interest :D)As for the interior of the ‘West Wing’ :), it’s pretty standard as far as I know. The twee oak kitchen featured in Seán O’Rourke’s recent documentary ties in well with the date Seamus gives for the refurbishment of the wing anyway…
Where is the ‘newly made’ Presidential carriage now do you know Seamus?
Otherwise, here’s Dev’s car 🙂
Also what happened to all of the George III paintings?!
Another point to add to the list of facts is that the Lodge was furnished/partly furnished by Butler’s of Dublin for the visit of Edward & Alexandra in 1903 – and much of it is still in use, not least because a relative of mine has restored much of it :). Also a beautiful table by Hicks from the same period, now used for offical functions.
Don’t know if the OPW are still ‘collecting’ for the house – certainly up till recently they were acquiring the odd 18th century Irish piece.
Here’s another wide of the original north front of the Lodge:
You can just make out the fanlight peeping over the top of the porch addition. Also the balls and urns are all thankfully still in place.
Well considering Tara St has recently been upgraded from cattle shed to hay barn, whatever happens it seems unlikely the station itself will get much treatment as part of the grander office scheme 🙁
an area for more exclusive dancing
Exactly what is an ‘exclusive’ dance? :confused:
Innocence is a virtue I’m told…At least this is what Parnell St needs. Dublin’s most exclusive thoroughfare has become a bit too gentrified of late – needs taking down a peg of two with a joint like this :rolleyes:
Yes Sir John Grey & William Smith O’Brien have just been unveiled – hope to have some before and after pics shortly…
Here’s a image that might be of interest – it’s a stretch of Upper O’Cll St West taken from Shaws Pictorial Guide of 1850. I’ve just superimposed the current day buildings over all of the townhouses, including the last remaining Royal Dublin House. The Fingal Offices consumed another house that is out of shot to the left.
Of course some of the houses had already disappeared before modern development came along, notably with the building of Gilbey’s on the Fingal site.
Also, here’s the original Carlton Cinema from c1932 🙂
Shows a lot of the original Georgian streetscape, including some interesting Pearse St-like Edwardian shopfronts.
Some great pics there Devin. The film? they were taken with lends them something of an 80s feel which is rather strange 🙂
I must admit to the shameful crime of never having been to Cork – made it to all surrounding counties and cities, but never to the depths of Cork 🙁
It’s difficult to grasp a perspective and feel for the city on the Cork thread, as isolated developments tend not to join up as it were on screen, but the pictures of streetscapes like above make it so much easier.
Of course there’s often two sides to every urban space, and the WATSOCL thread tackles new development very well, but there’s also room for content like this.Aren’t the slate-hung Georgians just fantastic?! Did you manage to get any more of these on your visit Devin? The one next to the ‘Citi’ :rolleyes: car park looks wonderful next to the neighbouring red brick.
So many regional towns & cities have that unusual type of brick arching on main facades, and on mews buildings etc – such a shame to see this example in such poor condition.The extent of paving on Patrick St looks very impressive; seems to be a very pedestrian friendly place.
See what people meant on the Cork Bridges thread about the Shandon Bridge – looks a bit clunky all right!Brilliant stuff! – thanks for that Seamus.
Fascinating info (and funny :)) about Hyde & the O’Ceallaighs.
There’s very few decent images of the 1911 wing available – I’ve often found that the old Hyde £50 note has one of the best views of it in the distance:
Did George and Mary live in the wing when they visited do you know, because it’s hardly the most regal of edifices, or was it for staff? 1911 would seem more appropriate for the style of architecture all right, bit of an Arts and Crafts influence in there as I remember from another pic.
Sure George must have had a grand old time in Dublin – a new wing for the Ãras, a vast dining hall for Dublin Castle – anything else?!Any idea as to the design of the ‘Presidential Bungalow’ (!) Seamus? Thanks.
I only vaguely remember these in real life, though often looked with interest at that exact image you posted Devin by O’Brien with the lamp standards etc.
Here’s a close-up of the entrance 🙂
Were they original Victorian railings to the right?
As for the lampposts, it’s a great pity they were removed; they created a grand entrance for the station, now sadly nothing but a crudely gouged gaping hole in the facade, leading in turn to a manky dungeon of a foyer 🙁
Often wondered what happened to the posts – saw a couple of similar ones a few years ago lying down the back at Pearse Station, maybe it was them…As for the windows of Connolly, thank goodness they weren’t replaced down through the years, though as said before larger facades tended not to be touched as it was simply too expensive :rolleyes:
Connolly has transitional sashes that are very unusual in Ireland, though common as anything in the UK. As the station dates from c1845, the windows marginally pre-date the mass introduction of larger sheet glass but it’s possible it uses it as the odd house out in Dun Laoghaire from this time seem to feature it.Pic here of one of them newly restored from a while back:
Also often wondered if they are iron windows in use at the top of the terminating towers of the building?
This is a great opportunity on a host of levels. What’s the liklihood of a building of equal quality to the Four Courts being designed? Or is it even possible to compare…
The Courts Service is crying out for new facilities, and the victim support rooms etc proposed will be very welcome considering the ludicrous state of affairs at the minute over at Inns Quay and the city’s other courthouses.
It’s a great chance for a ‘fresh start’ as outlined above, encompassing all services and their requirements at a single location, not to mention the very latest and efficient of every aspect their operations.
The inclusion of broadcast unit will also be warmly welcomed by RTÉ – another badly needed facility given the broadcast difficulties in the environs of the Four Courts & District Court, and having to depend on OB facilites every single day.
Mary Wilson is choosing the paint colours as we speak 🙂This is also going to be very much so a ‘television building’ too – an unusual factor that the architects will probably take into account. Notch up the landmark dial a bit more 😀
Maybe they forgot to finish it.
Barrington House looks rather good all right from that picture, as well as fitting into its context well.
Any chance of enlarging your pics a bit Dave if possible? – bit tricky seeing the detail of the projects.
Thanks for posting though.Did you see the last of the tall buildings series on the BBC the other week TP? In Hong Kong they featured what must be the most extraordinary property market in the world via the case of a development of what I think was two 80 storey residential towers at the shoreline. They were are just nearing completion after a few years of building, but are already set for demolition as the value of the site has gone up so much that new even taller buildings are more profitable!
From a distance at least it seemed almost the equivalant of demolishing the Petrona Towers!Yes it does seem as if things are changing with the DDDA on the south bank (as usual the northside left with the worst development :)). Certainly the likes of AIG House are dismal in height terms by anyone’s standards – sure they’re lower than lots of the existing city!
Some elements of and off Mayor St have proved to be a pleasing standard height I think, such as Excise Walk, and that rubix cube of apartments opposite the NUI.
The 8/9-storey level I think provides the best of both worlds – the opportunity for high density as well as powerful tall(ish) architecture, whilst also retaining a human scale.
There’s no little reason why this level could not be achieved as the minimum height for the majority of the Docklands, with ‘landmark’ developments puncturing this.It’s a pity about all the seagulls – ‘normal’ bird activity wouldn’t cause the level of damage that the gulls do.
Yes I couldn’t believe it seeing Centra opening on Nth Earl St, but one door down from Spar! Talbot/Nth Earl St now has two Spars, two Centras and a Super Valu supermarket! Don’t know how they’re all staying alive – perhaps not for long…
And this new Centra is simply replacing a pound shop – ‘Poundstretcher’ to be precise.Yes the lack of public access to the Dept of Education is a great pity, it’s a crying shame when walking by to see the lovely grounds which look like a public space if nothing else, railed off like Fort Knox. I don’t see how the existing level of security isn’t enough to protect the area if opened to the public.
emf that Carroll’s guesthouse is something else all right – couldn’t believe it passing a few months ago! They’ll have all of Gardiner St consumed and the Custom House dome replaced with a leprechaun hat before we know it!
No doubt they were testing the waters with these…
eh, actually Paul, y you might just have a point after all, in fact the whole archiseek, I mean shroud concept is an excellent idea 😀
That middle image is the one that turned me off the idea too – perhaps just cause of ever-typical concerns of globalisation etc etc. No doubt if it was an Irish company it wouldn’t seem nearly as offensive – almost ‘homely’ perhaps.
But either way, that image above shows what I meant about the advertising message becoming imbued in the streetscape – it’s not a nice feeling. It is not self-contained. It takes over the public domain in an unacceptable fashion – to me anyway.
Well the definition of such a premises is very clearly defined now, so I doubt they could get around it on that front, but key is the fact that such a use is not ‘banned’ as it were, as it is with others such as arcades etc – rather one must apply for permission for change of use to that nature of shop.
How can the City Council refuse permission for this use, or indeed any other use that is listed as needing permission?
They can consider the following when making their decision as stated in the SPCS:– the number and proximity of similar outlets already operating in the area
– the scale of the proposed outlet
– the physical impact of the proposed use on the internal structure of the building in which it will be located,
– the quality of the shopfront design and associated signage…but can they reject it even if it suits these grounds? The High Court challenge Ann Summers initiated when first opened was that some of the CC’s grounds for rejection were based on ‘irrelevant’ matters, essentially morality, rather than sound planning principles.
As such a use is not apparently ‘banned’, what can be done, not just in relation to Summers which is hardly a contentious store anyway for most people, but other uses too?
Presumably it is the same ‘tool’ that was applied in the case of Paddy Power…
