GrahamH
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GrahamH
ParticipantPossibly the latter as it affords the opportunity to unify the terrace fully by utilising vertical elements reflecting the vertical emphasis of the fluted columns of Manfield Chambers and the lovely pilasters of Eason’s.
The Metropole did not do this fully – no doubt something Horace O’Rourke would have insisted on had he been in charge at the time.@Devin wrote:

If the vertical elements were positioned on the first and second floors, with the third and forth’s emphasis placed horizontally, along with a new cornice line I think it would work superbly.

Dividing the new building up into two parts by having a dominant corner and a subservient plain part between it and Eason’s to the left like the current situation on the opposite side might be going too far, but it would look even better!
GrahamH
ParticipantCan something be butchered for the better?! 🙂
Yes it’s a poor replacement, essentially an oversized box shoved in to fill the hole. It reminds me of a poorly fitted washing machine or fridge that sticks out from underneath the worktop in a kitchen 🙂
Impressive image there Devin; very few of the 20s Metropole Cinema widely available. In the one above it looksd much more appealing – rather like a mini Clery’s. There’a lots of 1920s mini-pediments and stepped features on O’Connell St – hope to get some pics in the next week or so.
Not to drag the whole issue up again, but I really think a decent 1920s style facade is appropriate for this building should Penneys ever be thinking along these lines. Considering the architecture of this stretch of the street, and that of this building’s terrace, I think it would be by far the best move for this site.That picture also highlights what I think is the sole poor feature of the reconstruction: that awful Eason’s mansard roof – don’t know how they got away with it at the time. It looks a million times worse on Middle Abbey St now too as the whole thing has been clad in all-singing lead or maybe even zinc.
And why does it have to be so tall? What are they hiding up there?!GrahamH
ParticipantAgreed about the c1920 building; that terrace mus have looked very fine all executed in limestone and a similar syle, the most unified post-1916 block in fact. The BHS causes so much damage to the character of Lower O’Connell St which is by and large neclassical in design – it beggars belief that the Metropole was permitted to be demolished. let alone be replaced with this.
And as said before, the upper two floors are used for storage! No wonder they wanted pre-cast concrete panels all the way when originally proposed.I like the windows, but obviously not in this context – look at the image there, nothing but a token gesture on an otherwise blank wall and not even an acknowledgement of the cornice line. Wouldn’t be surprised if the upper windows are false :rolleyes:
It’s interesting to see in the 1900 image how the street is gradually turning into a modern day Westmoreland Street architecturally.
June 24, 2005 at 9:52 pm in reply to: 16 storey ‘tower’ planned for site of ex- jailbird, TD & Minister’s former home #757275GrahamH
Participantoooh I’m good 😀
The energy used to knock it down would’ve been wasted through those windows in half an hour.
Any pics of the scheme? Over 300 apartments are going to have quite an impact on the M1 & already choked entrance to the M50.
GrahamH
ParticipantHere’s a few bits and pieces about the Hotel Metropole that used to stand right next to the GPO on Lower Sackville Street – probably the most well known by name of institutions on the street, but perhaps not by building.
The life of the site first started out as four individual Wide Streets Commission buildings in a terrace, but these were amalgamated to form the hotel.
Here it is in about 1880, with an either rendered or stone-clad facade. Window surrounds have been added but their placement remained the same:
And here it is in its glory years in about 1900 (Laurence Collection) – wow!

It has been completely remodelled (if not the original building completely demolished) with a highly elaborate high Victorian French-style facade with magnificent ironwork in the form of vast balconies on the first and second floors and smaller window-specific balconies on the third.
An attic storey has also been added with a mansard roof, as well as some very impressive chimneys.Also a fine entrance canopy has been built over the pavement – you wouldn’t get away with that today…
Here it is again in about 1903 where the ironwork has been painted black:

…and again collapsing in 1916…

..aaand again 7 seconds later 😀

What a loss to the street though :(. It was hit by a shell intended for the GPO next door – which would you have preferred, the GPO or it?…
Here’s its replacement – a fairly standard exercise in modern neoclassicism, looks like it matched Eason’s etc very well:

It’s the building Frank McDonald gives out about being knocked for, well, this :rolleyes:

That BHS building is just so inappropriate from any northern viewpoint in the street – look how it crudely pushes forward into the streetscape, so arrogant. I must admit to having always liked its blue limestone window bays, but this does not in any way make up for its shameful impact on the terrace it is located in, nor its harsh lines next to the GPO.
At least we didn’t end up with the Ilac facade proposed…GrahamH
ParticipantI was hoping to stay in hiding underneath this rock till that thread blew over – thanks Sue.
🙂
GrahamH
ParticipantHi Aisling,
A tricky one all right about the upstairs windows. Not sure what you can do – though just before you abandon the fire reg issue, have you confirmed this? – in that it may be possible to have just one of the two upstairs wndows accessible for escape. That way the window that is visible alongside the downstairs could be sashed, while the other one different for escape.
As far as I know only a certain amount of upstairs windows require access depending on the layout of rooms, though of course considering the children in shot, incl fire helmet :), fire safety if of the utmost concern and must take precedence over the aesthetics if required.It’s always a difficult issue for both tradtional and modern options with these largely square windows – it’s a nightmare deciding how it opens without it looking ridiculous. No matter what it’s going to look clunky when opened given the whole expanse has to open fully. It’d be fairly easy I’d assume for a joiner to make up a decent mock sash design that hinged out casement-like from the side that could look perfect when closed – just what about when it’s open?! Personally I’d probably go for this option, especially if you don’t open windows much, but in a busy family house that may be difficult :). If the window isn’t wide open though it should all right just ajar.
Perhaps others here have had experience with this issue…As for the idea for exposed timber windows, tell him to feck off – they’re being painted and that’s the end of it 😀
But seriously, my experience of exposed (coloured varnished) softwood windows has been a nightmare – you’d probably want to go for hardwood if eaving them exposed, which would cost even more again if going for sashes.By the way, just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, many of these Land Commission houses featured Georgian style sashes, and even one down the road from me features Edwardian style casement window, with the top part fitted out with a multipnae grid!
*whispers* (just ignore that though, the one-over-ones are handiest, go for them – just blame the PVC brigade like everyone else for misleading you) 😀If looking for a joiner, don’t be put off by a nasty experience you amy have come across; there are plenty of decent, experienced joiners out there. As posted many times before here, the Irish Georgian Society have a database of many reputable joiners who do all sorts of work including windows here:
http://www.irish-architecture.com/igs/register/index.html
A decent one should be able to advise you on u-values including double glazing, draught-proofing and ventilation.
GrahamH
ParticipantNo 1 – is this just going to move even more people out of city centres, especially Dublin – they very places we want more people to live?
And no 2 – considering the potential difficulties in comparing inner city State sites with the value of the proposed housing, is standard suburban sprawl housing going to be the type ‘swapped’ as it’s the easiest to value and easiest to plan for and quickest to build?
I think George Lee summed it up well on the news tonight – there is an obvious bottleneck in the local authority system of providing such housing, and rather than this being resolved it has simply been superceded with this new scheme.
I have grave doubts about the selling of state land at market value to developers; it seems the only way to keep things clean and transparent in this country is to deal in hard cash on the open market. And I don’t refer to corruption, rather we are simply totally inefficient in dealing with state monies. I can see ‘money down the drain scandal’ plastered accoss The Rag on Sunday in 6 months time over some site that was swapped for under its market value.Why can’t the sites be sold to the highest bidder and the hard cash used to build these houses, in a planned fashion by local authorities. Either method, it still takes the same amount of time to clear the planning process.
I’d rather the money be earned in a direct fashion by the state for the state.GrahamH
ParticipantJust on that building on Grafton St – I pass it nearly every day and every time have to marvel at how graffti is attracted like a magnet to derelict/vacant buildings. How is it that this single building on an otherwise ‘respectable’ and exceptionally busy street manages to get itself covered in graffiti simply because the entrance door is bolted shut with a board over it?!
Just extraordinary, not to mention a shame considering the stonework has just been cleaned as part of the magnificent restoration.
As for O’ Connell Street’s planning needing more than just the occasional glance, it requires an armed guard and surveillence equipment to monitor every property on the street 24/7 😀
Although on Upper O’Cll St there seems to be something of an anti-progress culture up there – lets not do anything and keep the place in a dismal state so that standard planning practices for any ‘normal’ street won’t have to be enforced.Hopefully the sparkling new public domain will show up the state of the properties there for what they are.
GrahamH
Participant23/6/2005
Goldsmith is under wraps at the minute – Trinity get the O’Connell St contractors at a knockdown price?

What a poser he is 🙂

GrahamH
Participant23/6/2005
I took these images a few months ago but forgot about them until I came across the same building recently, sadly on the An Taisce Buildings at Risk register:

It’s made up of a charming and unassuming pair of late Georgian houses at the far end of a street just off the town’s main street. There’a a fantastic stock of 19th century domestic classical architecture round here – this one is thankfully one of very few in such poor condition, though it is one of the oldest so is perhaps to be expected.
Another view here showing the remarkably surviving original sash windows and brick chimney; an inappropriate modern one in the middle looks like it was shoved in about 10-15 years ago:

This house is particularly unusual in that it features a carriage arch – very rare for such a modest building in Dundalk, if not nationally. The associated building next to it is as good as derelict 🙁
The quote from An Taisce:
“Rare surviving unaltered early 19th century vernacular buildings. Divided into three sections comprising two cottages with boarded up door and window to ground floor and original 3 over 3 single pane sashes to first floor. Additional bay over carriage arch with sash over. Natural slate roof, brick stacks. An adjoining building to the South, which was part of the same development is ruinous with its rubble stone construction exposed. Vernacular buildings of this type retaining their architectural character are rare, not just in Dundalk but Irish towns generally.”
GrahamH
ParticipantAny chance of some pictures you illustrate you views? Thanks.
June 23, 2005 at 5:44 pm in reply to: 16 storey ‘tower’ planned for site of ex- jailbird, TD & Minister’s former home #757272GrahamH
ParticipantAnnnnyway – what’s this Briargate house like, is it that big 70’s pile with magnolia walls constantly featured during the saga, or a slightly more worthy structure?
GrahamH
ParticipantIt is extraordinary that Grafton St has yet to be designated as such – arguably it needs it even more than O’Connell St.
Didn’t know the Mace was going into this stretch – is it the fine polished granite-columned building near College Green?
Seem to have lost pictures of that too :rolleyes:GrahamH
ParticipantPhew! What a comprehensive report! 😮
A great outcome indeed – particularly I find the decision regarding the proposed conversion to seperate retail use on Westmoreland St. Perhaps one could expect the rejection of the Fleet Room conversion proposal, but the Westmoreland St retail outlet concept looked borderline, as turned out in the differing professional opinions stated in the planning process.
Thankfully the proposal was rejected:“It is not accepted as stated in the Planning Report that the proposed retail use onto Westmoreland Street should be supported as “the original intended use of the buildings at ground floor levelâ€, by reason that the long established Bewley’s Oriental Café use on Westmoreland Street is of significant cultural and historic and social interest, and as Bewley’s Café, as stated in the first party submissions, included a retail element to the Café at the Westmoreland Street frontage. The statement in the Planning Report that “With regard to the objections to the loss of a café in the area, the rear part of the site is proposed to be retained in such a useâ€, does not in my opinion acknowledge the importance of the long established access to the Fleet Room, Middle Room and Garden Room interiors of Bewley’s Café directly off the major thoroughfare Westmoreland Street which the proposed development would remove by blocking access through the proposed retail unit, and from a business viewpoint it is considered that the ‘footfall’ a Price’s Lane would not match that on Westmoreland Street.
…it is of paramount importance that Bewley’s Café remains as a café with access from Westmoreland Street and also noting that the Scheme for the designated Area of Special Planning Control referred to ‘the streets’ role as the (principle) thoroughfare of the city†which Westmoreland Street undoubtedly is in association with O’Connell Street…”
The other proposal to amend the Dev Plan to include an acknowledgement of the importance of certain building uses is also welcome.
GrahamH
ParticipantIs it simply the footfall of Grafton St that shoots rental values through the roof, or is there a prestige factor in there too?
Is it really that profitable for a Mace to operate on Grafton St?! As it is, the Bus Stop? newsagents about mid-way down the steet is tiny, presumably for this reason…GrahamH
ParticipantShrinktocork – maybe if you post in a dedicated thread you might get some help. If you don’t you’ll probably get lost in the crowd in here 🙂
The essential piece of advice that owners of listed properties are given is that for any intended structural changes, no matter how minor, seek the counsel of the local authority/conservation officer before doing anything.
Even if a change you make does not require planning permission, just check first regardless!
In most cases reasonable alterations will be allowed, as long as they don’t affect the integrity of the building – most of which are pretty obvious as to their impact.GrahamH
ParticipantIt certainly seems out of place to have bus stops lined up along the side of the road on what is largely becoming a pedestrian oriented avenue of sorts, or boulevard to use that irritating 80s term.
I’m not sure if this criticism is well-founded; perhaps it’s just strange seeing Dublin buses pulling up in such an architectural public domain, as one is more used to them halting pretty much anywhere on tatty Dublin streets and as MG memorably once said vomiting out patrons onto the pavement.
To have this happening on the capital’s main street, with tall noisy buses clogging up the narrow roadspace, blocking the views of buildings that the removal of the trees was supposed to expose is an unsatisfactory arrangement.Perhaps the blocking of buildings arguement is a tad far-fetched :), but the cliff-like nature of rows of buses on a newly pedestrian-engineered and architecturally landscaped streetscape is not desirable. Also being constantly interrupted trying to take photographs by the 16A and its six-part entourage is most frustrating 🙂
@Thomond Park wrote:
I had another look at the end building in the flesh this evening and it is actually 1920’s granite and is quite attractive.
The rendered finish was however much more pleasant.It’s a fine angular building on the corner all right – and with original sashes! :eek:.
Had a picture somewhere but seem to have lost it amongst the 476 others in the O’Connell St file 😮 …I’ll get another…
I prefer the granite building to the previous have to say, not that much is evident in the black and white above anyway…
As was said before, the site of Eircom seems to have had a matching building – what a shame it was lost.GrahamH
ParticipantEnough of that babble – just hutton that mouth of yours..
GrahamH
ParticipantHmmm

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