GrahamH
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Okay Devin, these durty analogies have got to stop – I think a cold shower is in order for you young man 🙂
Agreed though that it is unbelievably bad – it’s not Dublin, it’s not European, it’s not anything!
The copy button sums it up well – nothing but a structure that houses as many units as possible, just like Jacks Hong Kong towers.It’s not this building I presume given your description, but I think I know the one you mean – very fine.
And perhaps not what you’d exactly describe as beautiful, and one of the oldest ones in the book I know, but Roches is a fine block of a building to quote ctesiphon 😉 – and probably the only building I know of where white aluminum works reasonably well in places 😮
Bread Street – what a delicious name 🙂
What really annoys me about the taxis in Foster Place, aside from their consumption of the area, is the way you can never cross that broad expanse of cobbles in comfort whilst enjoying the space around you without a grumpy old git in a taxi making faces trying to pull out with pedestrians ‘in his way’.
And because of the huge expanse of cobbles there that is supposedly ‘roadway’, pedestrians feel obliged to continue walking quickly until safely back on the BoI or Dame St pavements on either side, as if they’re blocking an access point or another street.This whole enclave ought to be a pedestrian space, for the enjoyment of citizens and tourists, not Mr Taxi having a rest with his cheese sangwidges listening to Liveline.
That’s a point well made re planning consultation in third level – as an outsider I’m quite shocked this does not happen if what you say is correct. One would expect this to be standard proceedure in any architectural eduction.
Regardng Westmoreland St, I referred to the public domain not having been touched in 30 years, this largely being the focus of attention. Well originally anyway…
Funny though – pity Burger King couldn’t have written the same about the O’Connell Street Project! 😀
Fully agreed Stephen about this ubiquitous street furniture – I noted the exact same stuff going down in other town developments that’ve been posted here – especially those McDonald’s of the lighting world, the median posts on O’Connell St in Dublin – they’re everywhere, and have been for the past 7-8 years.
Is Ireland now about to be swamped by a raft of matt-finish silver posts and furniture – the heritage look of the 2000s?
Not only is it dull, unimaginative and predicatable to have this stuff everywhere, it is especially damaging in flagship areas like Eyre Square, or Grand Parade if it’s going in there, or O’Connell St in Dublin – it strips these important places of their uniqueness & identity.
At least Patrick St in Cork has been magnificently saved from it (perhaps too much with those posts ;)), but I’d hate to see Eyre Square engulfed with more content from the Acme Regeneration Kit.Now that Iceland are pulling out of the Republic (the supermarket that is :)), and Musgraves & Co are sniffing about, what’s the likelihood of another Spar/Centra/Super Valu/Mace moving in to their Talbot St unit?
It would officially be the Convenience Capital of Western Europe.
I don’t know what the locals do when they venture out to other areas of the city – must be shell-shocked at the notion of having to walk more than 8 yards for a pint of milk 😮That seems a great idea, especially with the bus stop on the doorstep there, and easy access from both the northside and south of Dame St.
Regarding Starbucks, agreed about the appeal – it’ll fall falt on its face. It seems to be grounded entirely on personal emotive issues.
Saying that, when College Green eventually becomes a special area of planning control, all fast food and convenience outlets ought to banned outright here.Having never encountered a full-size Starbucks (I’ve led a sheltered life :)), I cannot comment on their modus operandi but as TP says, the greater concerns are shopfront design, signage and associated issues. These are the matters of importance in this crucial city space, not the politics.
‘Eroding the civic life of the city’ is a tad much, but saying that, any further inroads by similar outlets to College Green ought not to be permitted as a matter or preserving the uniqueness and character of the College Green environment.
This is where the problem arises with such outlets as we have seen elsewhere in the capital – too many and it’s too late.An efficent summary – I like your PC analogy Frank 🙂
Is it not the case though that much of this is academic, as in reality a significant amount if not majority of development in this country there aren’t even architects used to come in conflict with planners!
And in the case of the public domain of Westmoreland St or D’Olier St, neither planner nor architect has touched the space in 30 years!
The mother of all wedding cakes.
So it’s not going to be in the shell of the house itself then?Exactly what is the status of the house now – has just the entrance hall been restored, and the rest left as it is?
There is a major BUT though (both puns unintended :)) – a huge development to the rear of the building is proposed by the ever-expanding DKIT, which includes a plan for a 12 storey hotel no less, amongst other slightly more collegiate buildings.
Where exactly the 12-storey is going I don’t know, but it’d be worth a check out. Certainly the building’s isolated days are numbered.As for Carrolls dying off, a pity indeed – it seems all of its diversification plans were fraught with failure from the outset of the cigarette war. The company has left a fine architecural legacy, from the flagship 67-69 factory in Dundalk, to Grand Parade in Dublin, to the old factory on Clanbrassil St, and its striking Edwardian office building there too.
Were there any others?It is indeed protected, and listed as being of international importance – not very many county development plans have this title featured amongst their pages.
Carroll’s were without a doubt one of the best employers in the country, a sad day is about to come now with their closure – but a good day on another front.
Hmmm – which is which 🙂
Isn’t Carroll’s just a fabulous building? (it’s never going to be known under any other name :))
It’s something you’d never in a million years expect in the far flung reaches of Ireland, and a building most people are probably completely unaware of even existing – it is reminiscent of a structure in a US suburban business park: a sprawling low-rise pile of glass and steel surrounded by perfectly manicured lawns.
Imagine coming from the UK or other more developed countries in 1969, and suddenly hitting upon this striking piece of architecture in the middle of nowhere in north-eastern Ireland!
Especially considering DKIT next door didn’t even exist, none of the industrial estate to the rear had been developed, and the miles of ribbon housing that now flank it on both sides hadn’t even started. – it was out there on its own, a magnificent introduction to the town from the south.It has aged exceptionally well, as has the surrounding landscape which is as important as the building itself. It has some spectacular tree specimens, and the lawns are as neat as they were nearly 40 years ago. The only thing is the shrubbery lining the Dublin Road has been allowed get out of hand and is now obscuring views of the building.
It’s an under-rated building in the town, though appreciation for it is gradually growing I think. Saying that, there has always been a liking for the fabulous sculpture to the front:
…which stands in a glass-like pool of water.
The two ‘control towers’ 🙂 on top make for very striking pieces of architecture when viewed from certain angles – they settle neatly beside each other in some views, beautifully composing the building with the lower storey splaying out in different directions underneath in an almost comforting fashion, like the towers are standing guard over the complex below.
And the main views from the N1 are equally well served by them – they line up strikingly with the the storey below, as well as add interest to the skyline.Miesian corners are of course beautifully featured (this is Ronnie Tallon afterall :))
…and the uppermost course of glazing is continued the whole way round the building – not just the office section but the factory too, over its lovely beige brickwork, tieing the whole scheme together into a whole – an inspired move when one considers how disjointed the complex could have been with the factory element seperate from administration as is so often the case.
And the reflections of the early morning and late evening sun in its acres of glazing are just to die for – not to mention a very rare mist that shrouds the lower storey on magical winter mornings if you’re lucky enough to catch it – happens only on the morning of a full blue moon 🙂
There’s a great old early 20th century pillar box on Lower O’Connell Street East that I hope goes back down again; suffice to say it too was in bits and in need of some attention.
Not only do An Post have to paint all their boxes, they also need to adopt a standard green too, instead of the ridiculous variation one always sees – including on their own signage.
Why the heck they adopted that horribly mediocre British building society corporate bluey green with the ‘racing’ red arrow on it goodness only knows, and especially in the face of the traditional yellowy green still in use almost universally, as should be the case.
What a mess.Is the GPO definitely being cleaned though, as all the windows in the building were repainted only a few weeks ago – sure they’ll be destroyed with dust and dirt won’t they?!
There’s an interesting related point to that, that you can’t as such put your finger on when crossing the bridge, but it’s the fact that the kiosks block you views as you cross the river, whether it be in a car or on foot; there’s no real sense of crossing the Liffey from one side to the other, the very point that the O’Connell Street IAP highlights about O’Connell Bridge, the very point – and yet the CC seek to ignore this issue that is pointed out in one of their own documents in the case of Grattan Bridge.
Very much so a case as Garethace has highlighted, of the CC putting the effort into ‘flagship’ projects but ignoring the fundamentals in the average space in the city. O’Connell is worthy as part of a grandiose scheme, but Grattan is not.
In the ‘before’ pictures Devin posted previously , it is without doubt the broad flat expanse of Grattan Bridge that is of greatest appeal, with sweeping views of the quays on both sides, and the delightful seahorses framing the views whilst simultaenously marking the river crossing by marching along on both sides, acting as architectural and practical beacons on the river, both day and night, as all similar lamps do on most bridges around the world – Westminster Bridge being a grand example of such.
The fridges have taken this away from the city, dividing it in two – the only bridge on the Liffey other than O’Connell that generated this effect 🙁
As for the black posts – fully agreed about the juxtapositioning, it’s very successful. And the lamps are great in themselves (even if they’d remind you of larger versions of the Texaco forecourt model :)) – just I think they take away from the purpose of the seahorses, relegating them to a bit of frilly Victoriana in the side, when they ought to be dominant.
To see them sticking up in the distance in the middle of the river is clumsy, and kinda smacks of ‘let our modren paraphernalia handle this one lads’ :rolleyes:@Thomond Park wrote:
it must be given to a Trust with experience of all aspects of Built and Natural Heritage including physical management, advocacy and monitoring proscribed applications.
A body distinct from An Taisce do you mean – or do you think they can fulfill this role?
I wonder does the majority of AT want to fulfill this role, or remain as they are?🙂
Yes the double head is way too big for the post, and the large pedestal base ends up consuming half of the shaft!
But lovely pieces, and their miniature proportions were just perfect for the bridges.
To be honest I’m not sure about the black Grattan Bridge posts either – they look great in themselves but think they still look a bit daft sticking up in the middle of the river in the fashion they do.
Surely the now-exceptionally bright seahorses are sufficient to light the bridge? (were the fridges not there of course).Since this thread is about Westmoreland Street Dublin Brian, what solutions do you offer to this blockage in mindset, practice and efficency of which you speak pertinent to Westmoreland Street?
Specifically in relation to the Hilton/Treasury saga, it is hardly fair to describe the facade ‘issue’ as insignificant in the broader planning and environmental landscape; everything could be described as such in their respective fields were that the case.
It is perhaps reflective of a larger problem in Irish planning and architecture, but not irrelvant in itself.Given your architectural background, what do you suggest in relation to Westmoreland Street as to what can be done to improve it as a workable, aesthetically pleasing public space in the centre of Dublin in 2005, in the context of your above observations and the ‘system’ that we have?
Indeed – must take a closer look at the Merrion lamps. Most of them seem to be ‘novelty’ lamps from the period from parks and promenades etc, with very few used on the city streets, so it’s great to see the double-header in real life!
There definitely ought to be a little plaque of info regarding each lamp in the Park.
The fact that it probably wouldn’t be possible to do this because no one knows where most of them came from is indicative of the piece-meal tokenistic nature of their placing here – any old lamp from any old place popped in any old corner.The proportions of those converted double-headers are just ridiculous (!), but were fantastic pieces of street history 🙁
(dare I say they’re frighteningly similar to 80s shopping centre lighting 🙂 – the Frascati Centre springs to mind 😮 )
The little bulbs/glass cases of the lamps are particularly interesting.Miniature lamps ought to be reinstalled on these bridges, in character with their historic scale; there’s nothing worse than full size streetlights poking up from old bridges.
Had to laugh at the Michael Collins film at the way that all they could do was paint the crude unfinished modern posts a dark green on O’Donovan Rossa 🙂
Should have left them that colour…oooh that’s interesting – must take a look!
It looks grand as it is overall as rough granite like that can take the dirt easily, but the portico and that marvellous frieze does look very sorry as grubby as it is.You can clearly see the new cornice and balustrade that were added in 1984 – maybe this difference will disappear if the older granite is cleaned…
