GrahamH
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I had a good look at this quay the other day from the Matt Talbot and really and truly it is the most horrendous, mediocre, incoherent pile of rubbish in Dublin city centre. You tend to aviod looking at it at the best of times, so it was quite an effort to observe it for more than a few seconds!
With the exception of the Corn Exchange. the Georgians next to O’Connell Bridge House and the Dutch-style Victorian on the corner, I’d like to see all of Burgh Quay completely flattened, including Poolbeg St as far back as Pearse St.
This entire city block is filled with the greatest collection of rubbish that it is nothing short of an architectural landfill.
Likewise George’s Quay out to be levelled.Not that any of this is remotely possible to achieve, but it would be great to be able to redefine the centre of Dublin with some decent architecture lining this important stretch of the Liffey – linking the old city with the new city as it does.
It is difficult alright on density grounds to knock a tall building and replace it with a lower one, but I think that Hawkins ought not be rebuilt to that height – rather a six-storey structure ought to go back in here to restore the height of this area and reflect that of the inner city at large.It is not pleasant to see tall buildings rising out from behind the traditional height of Burgh Quay – it is this more than anything that causes the present mess I think, whatever about the design of the crap that’s there like Hawkins or the Irish Press.
Burgh and George’s Quays are a disaster at present with all the rubbish that’s there, the mixture of ‘styles’, the gaping wound of the Loop Line smashing through the terrace, the Loop Line bridge itself cutting the view of the old city off from the IFSC & Docklands, and of course the dross that is the Ulster Bank flanking the Liffey – definitely a contender for the Ugliest title on the other thread.
Yes it is filthy, as were all major classicals in the city until the 1980s – indeed the BoI as a private enterprise were the first in the capital to clean their building, in contrast with the myriad grotty State structures around the city.
It was cleaned in 1977 along with a major ‘conservation’ programme (parts of it were essentially rebuilt), and seemingly again in the 1990s when more work was carried out.It’s been mentioned before, but ‘apparently’ 😉 in the Dana video shot by RTÉ in 1970 in the city centre (crops up in Reeling in the Years) the building looks like it’s been painted black in places! – as dirty as Trinity’s West Front.
It’s starting to get grubby again, as is Govt Buildings, but sure you can’t keep cleaning – it is a dusty urban environment after all.In the c1930 image above there’s still one of those classic hut-like telephone booths in place there – only one left in the entire city now it seems on Dawson St 🙁
And to think you could just sail into the city in your car and dump it in front of Grattan! And you had the pleasure of eght intact seahorses watching over you 😡
Fully agreed – every local authority in the country seems to have bought a batch load of these timber wedding cakes in 2002 or so and they’re just plonked anywhere!
That is one probably the worst use of them there outside the BoI, especially combined with the trees.Look at that fantastic chimneyscape of Foster Place in Morlan’s pic! Also, what’s that tall chimney to the rear of the BoI – a boiler chimney?
It’s interesting how the perfectly square plinths of the columns of the BoI really stand out when viewed from above, something you just don’t see from the ground.Ah yes, ‘those’ lamps 😉
Can’t say I’m a fan, and am sure they’re not exactly hot with astronomers either given their huge level of pollution!
A classic British High Street staple.They featured very prominently in that Guinness Christmas ad with City Hall in shot didn’t they? (ooh how exciting, it’s only 12 weeks till that starts airing again :))
Lovely palazzo style facade in the background in you picture hutton.
Not to go on about this film, but I think this ‘lack of O’Connell St’ issue needs to be put into perspective – it is a wonder the film was made at all given the bugetary contraints, never mind recreating half of central Dublin!
They were under huge financial pressures, and as such, cinematically, a more ‘convincing’ three-dimensional city could be created with the GPO terminating a vista, essentially ‘covering’ the top part of a street. As all cameras were generally based on the imaginary street with the GPO in shot in the background, O’Connell St did not have to be built at all as it was completely out of shot around the very convenient corners 🙂
It seems that either all of one side of O’Connell St would have had to be built in order to fill backdrops sweeping into the distance, or none at all if it was done the way it was!
Cash dictated it seems.Coming back to the current century, the GPO cleaning is due to be finished by the last day in November: the 30th – in perfect time for the Christmas month. An Post have their heads screwed on.
Yikes jimg, if that incident didn’t put you off cycling nothing will!
I have the utmost sympathy for cyclists, especially in urban environments, and especially in Dublin! And most of the behaviour that I see daily is impressive: most are exceptionally cafeful (if only to protect themselves :)) including stopping at lights and indicating etc.
I really don’t know about the practice as described by yourself and Devin of cutting around junctions when lights are red; as neither a driver in the capital, nor a cyclist, it’s difficult to see the impact of this from a purely pedestrian perspective. The dismounting and use of pedestrian crossings seems a good compromise.
What does affect you though is cyclists turning corners directly into you without looking or slowing, and the practice of shooting out from junctions – a nasty, dangerous move.As a seasoned pedestrian :), personally I’ve no problem at all with cyclists using pedestrian spaces where the alternative is a dangerous road, or where provision simply has not been made for cyclists. As street users cyclists are much closer in nature to pedestrians than motorised traffic, and accordingly will gravitate towards such environments if forced to.
Non-mass level use of pedestrian areas by cyclists, including pavements, is acceptable up to a point I think – but crucially as long as the cyclist exercises a duty of care, which you are promoting jimg.The classic location in Dublin is the newly paved areas of St Stephen’s Green, an area that has roadways that are a nightmare for cyclists, but conversely has the most mouth-wateringly tempting pavements to race along 🙂
And this is exactly what constantly happens: cyslists boot it along here scaring the living daylights out of pedestrians, often leaving one spinning like a top in the wind generated and the fright induced – a totally unacceptable state of affairs.
I’ve every sympathy for cyclists forced to use the death trap that is the Green, and would be quite willing for them to use the pavements until/if this is sorted, but only as long as they respect other users.
As has been pointed out by everyone by now, this of course applies to all road users.As for pedestrians waiting for the little green man, it really is a must in a city like Dublin. People are so so stupid in the city centre it never fails to astound how two or three people aren’t killed every day, rather than that amount every year seemingly being the case.
If as a pedestrian you decide to break a light, everyone else follows suit, putting others in danger whatever about yourself.Another classic location is O’Connell Bridge outside Ballast House. The people on the Westmoreland St side can’t see the traffic moving round from behind them, so any time the people on the bridge side decide to move en masse upon seeing a brief window in the traffic, the Westmoreland side follow suit, despite not being able to see the incredibly dangerous buses and taxis swinging around this corner.
One’s short-sighted rushing across from the bridge is encouraging others to put themselves in extreme danger, potentially including motorists. This senario can be replicated right acorss the city and country at large.
To state the obvious, all road users must have their wits about them and exercise common sense.
I wouldn’t describe it quite as such, i.e. the loss of the building itself, but certainly there’ll be an undesirable impact on the streetscape at large.
The corner building reinforces the traditional classical make-up of the area, even if it is bordering between ‘modest’ and non-descript 🙂 – and most importantly if forms an appropriate setting for St Catherines.
What swung it in their favour I think, and I can see why, is the blank 80s wall to the side – it’s terrible.
Nothing that couldn’t have been fixed, but the notion of a ‘signature’ corner building, catering for modern residential accommodation seems to have been too tempting. To try and put it in context, if this building was sandwiched between two tall classicals, it is very difficult to see any plan for replacement being granted.The architect’s submission of “The existing building cannot be upgraded due to its condition.” is irritating. No building is beyond repair in this day and age, and comparitively speaking this is hardly the worst case to sort out, not by a long shot.
It’s a pity the character of what is an unusually intact traditional street being eroded.
It’s the corner that swung it.Yes its disappearance came as something of a shock – not least as the signs they had on the doors informed of ‘renovations’, not wholescale demolition!
Nothing left but a steel upright – no hang on a second…
Yes the new facade is taking shape on Henry St/Mary St – it’s all curvy like 🙂
It looks promising – especially how it handles the setback from Mary St, it was a mess before.
And as for the interior – it’s another world in there! Like Roches they seem to have constructed a temporary roof over the place while work is underway – it’s amazing how these things are done (if somewhat scary!).
It’s fair to say I think that the attention to detail for the most part was excellent, superbly handled, just wherever they got it wrong they did it spectacularly :). Which is good in a way because these errors are so well-worn at this stage that you can gloss over them with ease and sit back and enjoy the rest of it!
The most subtle of elements like early electric ‘flex’ running up the walls of interiors to newly-installed electric fittings are just perfect – likewise the conversion of all the Upper Mount St lampposts back to their 1916 state, it really shows how iconic this lampposts have become in representing the Dublin of that era, something it seems Jordan was very conscious of.
The placement of a steet opposite the GPO is so perposterous as to make it quite easy to ignore – again with the British troops all lined up in front of the GPO firing directly in :rolleyes:
Whatever about the representation of Dev etc, that’s something for another day, but the art direction was by and large superbly accurate given the limited resources available.@Thomond Park wrote:
It shouldn’t be on this thread
Certainly. The choice of brick I think was quite brave, with the average developer jumping for the usual bales of shiny red Kingscourt. It’s an elegant choice that will stand the test of time. The building is nicely proportioned and the corner is well pronounced. The wooden balcony rails pictured are just temporary.
I’m guessing it reminds everyone somewhat of the Community Resource Centre in Smithfield 🙂
There were mixed views on this before here…
Yes it’s a terrible yoke – indeed I had to back into its nasty roller shutters to take the pic of the building above!
If there’s time I’ll get it again, just didn’t bother on the day because, well, as stated by many it’s not exactly worthy of attention!I remember the derelict site the above building is on now — it was surrounded for years by palisade fencing wasn’t it?
Is it illegal to cycle on footpaths?
What is implied in the notion of giving cyclists a bad name is blatently unsafe practices like breaking lights, not indicating, shooting out from junctions, and particularly weaving through traffic. Cycling on a footpath in most cases is hardly ranking high in the scheme of dangerous cycling I think you’ll agree!
But yes you do make a good point about other careless road users being equally dangerous – though the sheer speed of unsafe maneuvers by cyclists does tend to rank them higher in the danger stakes than stupid pedestrians.
Certainly cycling offers you much greater freedom of movement within urban centres and is probably the primary attraction of the mode for most people, but it has to be done carefully – not just for the sake of the cyclist him/herself, but for all other roadusers, something that is often not considered.
Ctesiphon I was referring to the newish (about a year) lights and islands etc at the Moss St junction at the south of the bridge – quite a large intersection there of cycle and pedestrian lanes; likewise on the Custom House side. Just wondered how user friendly there are for cyclists. Also the raised stripey kerbline that surrounds part/all of Beresford Place seems useful in separating cyclists from the heavy goods traffic around here on what could be a dangerous curve with traffic inclining towards the cycle path on the bend.
Is there a cycle lane going over the bridge itself though – can’t think now…
As for the bar, I think one person on a bike on Dublin’s quays is dodgy enough thanks 🙂Indeed on that issue, it’s a bit morbid I know but do city cyclists here think a lot about the dangers they’re often faced with – i.e. that you just might not make it home one day, or end up seriously hurt?
I think it would be constantly on my mind in Dublin in particular – it’s bad enough being a pedestrian!A point well made; at the best of times cyclists have an exceptionally hard time negotiating their way through cities without having to incur the wrath of other motorists ignited by other careless parties. It is of the utmost importance that cyclists maintain a ‘good name’ for themselves, more so than any other road users.
A careless cyclist is also much more dangerous than a negligent pedestrian – the speed of a bike makes it near-impossible for motorists or pedestrians to stop in time, or otherwise make a good judgement in an unsafe situation.
I’ve often wondered what it is like to use the new cycle infrastructure in and around Beresford Place/Matt Talbot Bridge/Moss St in Dubli – anyone have any experience of it?
Indeed – though as rightly pointed out by someone down the back, of greater importance are the solutions offered to the mess we’re in; real, viable alternatives.
Saying that, these ‘alternatives’ have been playing out in other countries for the past 30 years, so it really is the ‘blockage’ as was mentioned so often tonight of so-called PR in this country that is the problem. As it is we’re going to have difficulty resolving the mess already created, whatever about changing the mindset of policy-makers.
Ulick O’Conner is one of the most eloquent speakers on this island, he was fantastic. You could listen to him for hours.
Yes the initial explosion was above the street so largely caused little/no damage, whilst the Army expolsion obviously impacted the surrounding terraces being so low down. It was mainly just glass that shattered though – never heard any claims of structural damage. A lot of embellishment seems to have taken place over the years regarding the army explosion!
Yes the above picture from the National Library Collection I think was taken during the Civil War as you describe – the date given is ‘1920-1930’.
Yes the tram pylons were very grand – still a feel of them in surviving lampposts from the 1920s and 30s in suburban Dublin, particularly around the Grand Canal/SCR area. They probably were green alright, though they do look very black in earlier photos.
An enjoyable and insightful night – the ‘usual crowd’ gathered 🙂
A great pity it didn’t go on for longer – I think most people were surprised at how short the Chaos debate was.McDonald’s and Nix’s upcoming publication seems to be the tin opener for another can of worms, which hopefully will spark media and wider public interest.
The utter frustration of the two speakers was surprisingly evident at times for experienced-in-their-fields people – McDonald shaking his head in his hands quite a few times at points being made 🙂Debates like this are crucial in raising planning in the public’s consciousness, which is why it was a pity it was limited in scope and time – the very elements that ought to have set the event apart from television and radio debate.
Excellently produced though in one of the stunningly restored ‘Pink Pair’ on the Green (and what a fantastic opportunity to have a good nose about :D). The crown glass shimmering in the sashes behind the stage was quite a distraction 🙂
They say in the application that conservation work will be carried out, but total replacement in some cases may be necessary.
Here’s the terrace in the 1920s, sombre dark windows dominate, and not an Abrakebabra in sight!
Interesting that upper floor signage has already crept in – for once we have higher standards today…
😀 (even as serious as it is)
@kefu wrote:
it actually looked rather fitting.
What do you mean Kefu?
While it is highly probable it was an altercation between two ‘friends’, as most stabbings tend to be, it nonetheless exhibits to a tee the nature of activity on these two Boardwalks: Bachelors Walk and Eden Quay in particular. If this doesn’t spur the Gardaà into action nothing will.
