GrahamH
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Who is regarded as more ‘significant’, Luke I or Luke II?
Found out recently who ‘designed’ the Wax Museum/Cinema in 1967. Anyone care to guess who was responsible?
Not exactly rocket science now…His ‘weath’ remark seemed to refer to the current state of affairs regarding infrastructure – not that we don’t have the resources to handle it, but rather as things stand we are not an infrastructure-rich or infrastructure-‘weathy’ nation.
But yes, regardless, it came across as daft.
What was encouraging however is that the Interconnector does seem like a strong contender at this stage in the eyes of Govt.The topic could’ve done with an hour. John Henry spoke but once aside from a V/O at the start.
Poor old battered Barry Kenny had some good points about city centre capacity.A point well made. Indeed I found it interesting how the new seven story yoke going up pictured above is located right next to 1960s (Fitzgerald?) blocks. Were these new apartments not going up, the common perception would be that ‘the flats’ are the problem, or their design. In fact the 60s blocks have greater appeal that the newly constructed box.
It’s always the architecture and the nature of development (usually high-rise) that is criticised, when in fact greater issues are at work. Of course a decrepit environment and bleak structures can contribute to social exclusion and problems, but it is generally maintenance more than anything that’s at fault.
It is frustrating that not even one of the iconic towers of Ballymun is being preserved – what not? It seems there are a great many people who want to stay living in one/some of them. Why not internally refit one or two of them instead of building yet more happy-clappy multicoloured two-storey houses?In much of the early colour footage from 1969 of the newly-built development, the towers really do look quite elegant – indeed the architecture of the crisp pre-cast panels has always appealed to me; the scheme is much better than some of the stuff thrown up in the UK 10 years previously. Again it seems to be a case of ‘cleansing’ the area, as if the architecture is the sole issue. The fact that not even one of the buildings is being retained amongst the sunnny new development says it all I think.
Whatever about the 8 storey blocks, the towers are quite iconic at this stage. To sweep every scrap of Ballymun’s past is a shame I think; if nothing else one could stand as a reminder of a mistake not to be made again – and not necessarily architectural.
You’re right Frank about it being Dolphin House Flats – not least as there’s always ‘Dolphin House’ banners hanging about the place 😮 (always thought this referred to just one block or ‘house’).
Here’s a picture from another site:
You can see the elegant formation and the nature of the setting – a lovely place from the outside at least, don’t know what the courtyards are like.
Surprised Governemnt Buildings of all places hasn’t been mentioned – the blatent nature of the inscriptions is really quite hilarious given the use of the building today, probably the most prominent British influence on a major Dublin building, and on the building where such remnants are least desirable! Brilliant 🙂
It’s not necessarily true to say that the Custom House and Four Courts feature elements of British symbolism – the coat of arms and crowns are that of Ireland – not the British Crown as is commonly percieved. The ‘Kingdom of Ireland’ or something along those lines.
Yes – the brazen height of it is the worst element. There’s a lot more apartments going up too further down, a mix in quality.
I found it interesting that out of all development in the area, despite the negative associations St Theresa’s Gardens is one of the most attractive residential schemes you came come across in Dublin, made up of rows and rows of elegant wine-red blocks geometrically sited on green lawns flanking the canal – all marching into the distance.
I’ve passed this development for many years now and have always admired it, though admittedly never been inside – must go in some time.
What is striking is how exclusive and po-faced this scheme could be in the hands of a developer, even with the same architecture – ‘waterside setting’ ‘nestling on a mature site’ ‘manicured lawns and walks’ ‘tens minutes from the city centre’ etc etc.The ranks of imposing chimneys are most impressive – I think they used to be brick but were renderded over when the de-steeling and PVC era swept in about 5-7 years ago 🙁
There’s an interesting skyline of little hump-backed plant rooms etc too – always wondered what these are…Anyone have thoughts or info on this scheme?
Yes one-over-ones can be made very well with double-glazed panes, though the windows I’ve seen could have been reproductions. The dividing metal strip between the panes does tend to stand out a bit – though by no means in a major way.
Monty here before I think said this strip is unnecessary….Would you not want to conserve the original glass cobalt? Frankly heavy curtains can be as good a solution as any in some cases, not least south facing rooms!
If you don’t have individual room thermostat-controlled heating, there’ll be no benefits whatever in the energy consevation department if you have your heating going regardless of the room’s temperature as most people do.
So having double-glazing saves you no energy at all if you still keep the heating going for the same amount of time.Of course that’s not a reason to leave things as is. Indeed I’d like to know too what is recommended by experts for energy conservation with older windows – aside from the clumsy internal secondary glazing option…
I agree about the current shrouding of the GPO – it has a fantastic stark quality that just commands attention.
And for those of us who know it, we wonder what the finished product is going to look like, while those who don’t – tourists and the like – just wonder what it is that’s underneath 🙂
It’s a great talking point at the minute.Just a quick shot of the Upper St, quite a bit to go yet:
Had to laugh at this – guess the statue 🙂
Often wondered do people ever use cycle lanes to cycle in the ‘wrong’ direction, and have you found it to be safe?
Is there any rule against this?Some nice pics there – yes that three-part apartment block seems to be setting a taller trend for the south quays which is to be welcomed. Looking at it the other day it was a relief to see some height being introduced – though the one problem I find with the Docklands stretch of the Liffey is that the river is its worst enemy, it is so very straight and boring.
Height or no height, you can’t seem to get away from dull, flat, cliff-like development lining the banks. Not sure how you can improve on this…Those apartments are to be fitted out to an incredibly high standard – there was big demand for them when they went on sale as far as I can remember.
The IÉ building is one of the nicest in the city – the little dome is just a gem 🙂Yes it is everywhere – and unfortunately for the material, as evident above it is being used as a token gesture to improve the ‘quality’ of thoroughly cheap developments. You can just imagine the earth-shattering intellectual discussions going on in certain practices – ‘Ah sure tack on a couple a sheets of that green stuff – all the young ones are into it nowadays’.
Coincidentally I had to go out to Crumlin village the other day and so walked from O’Connell Bridge all the way out (:eek: ) via the Coombe. The monster building looks even worse in real life when you see it lining the motorway-like road – it just dominates the area in the most horrible way, its main facade like a cliff face alongside the road.
What is so bizarre though is that the copper development a comparitive distance away from the Georgians are actually lower in height, and their massing significantly more graded, with something of an organic form compared to the shoebox (or chest freezer box more like) across the road.This element of the facade treatment looks so much worse in real life – truly appalling:
The Ballymun towers are positively elegant compared with this.
Pre-treated copper really has become the new polished granite hasn’t it? A nice material, but really, what a cliche…
All this development is quite astonishing, and some of it unfortunately for the wrong reasons. Fully agreed about that latter yoke – truly hideous. To borrow an F Mc Dism it is yet another barracks-like scheme.
Busy busy busy, it’s just like one of many childish multi-coloured schemes that went up in Britan 15 years ago now, but with the obligatory ‘contemporary’ addition of ‘natural’ materials of timber and crappy limestone cladding to appease the planners and imbue the development with a supposed fashionable allure.And yet again, the use of prefab window panels in 2005, yet alone in a residential development is nothing short of astounding!
It is truly awful, flat blank facades with top-hung casements sticking their ugly heads out – is there anything more disgusting in apartment design?The first scheme is nice alright – it addresses the street by proudly facing outwards, rather than just built to contain x amount of units internally. And the ground floor provides a well-proportioned and finished base for the building as a whole.
The whole charm of this area stems from the Georgian remnants all about the place – used to love passing through this area (before the M50 opened :() and seeing glimpses of Georgian doorways in the midst of railed off sites and billboards, or a sash or two or a length of railing in front of a breeze blocked-up door – all suggesting what once was.
Every effort should be made to integrate in a sympathetic fashion the older houses of the area into new development, which is why it’s such a pity about the above monster facing that brown-stocked Georgian.
One of the advantages of all the derelict sites was that you could appreciate the remaining houses, especially the one above, which you used to be able to approach in full view for quite a distance. It’s still somewhat possible even with that yoke across the road, but the contrast is as cruel as it is ugly.I take it you don’t include the Shinners’ commandeering of the space yesterday as an event? 🙂
Heheh – the GPO didn’t quite provide the political backdrop desired:
Poor old Fidelity is looking lost up there:
…whilst Mercury is poncing about as usual 🙂
So clearly the statues are due a bit of treatment too given the height of the scaffolding.
It seems the south wing of the building won’t be tackled for a while yet.How horrible. I’d say there were quite a few similar incidents with that paving scheme.
And how sad about the O’Connell St woman dying – it is always so sickeningly sad to hear of pedestrians being killed, regardless of who was at fault. The notion that you’re innocently going about your business one moment and are seriously injured or even stone dead the next is too depessing for words.
How her companion on the day, her family and the bus driver must feel doesn’t bear thinking about.
I see P45 notes she and the lady with her walked out onto the road as part of a large group of people – typical not just of this crossing, but indeed all crossings in Dublin city centre.
The Gardaà had a small pedestrian safety campaign on O’Connell Bridge about two years ago, handing out leaflets.
An attempt at least, but a much broader addressing of pedestrian culture in Ireland is needed. One need only go 40 miles across the Irish Sea to note the stark difference in attitudes to road safety.Indeed it is the case with photographers, but not in general as RTÉ have used the Four Courts Rotunda in the past, notably only last year for a Prime Time Investigates where some spectacular overhead shots were attained via the use of one of these 🙂
What a spectacular, if somwhat draughty place to have a meal.
And even then his desire to rid us of the West Link(s) is dubious – the original was an elegant piece of design: until its twin came along.
I think he’s just borrowing a move from Myres, chucking in a few contentious points to stir it up.
Not worth bothering about.I’d agree about the unacceptable level of buses on the street, and their use of it in potentially dangerous circumstances, but the level of traffic on the street does not interfere with pedestrian crossings – if there’s 2 buses or 20 buses on a lane they still have to stop in a safe fashion at crossings.
A lot of good points have been made – I think what stands out is TP’s noting of spatial standards set by designers and planners; these are used in all newly-planned crossings. To suggest that we change this model to cater for absolutely everyone is something that just cannot be done.
On O’Connell St there is perhaps an exception to this rule as ctesiphon notes, in that one is to an extent encouraged to break the rules, even if subconsciously. If there’s echoing empty space surrounding the crossing, i.e. an empty Plaza or roadway stretching into the distance, people will cross, especially if the roadway paving is the same as that you’re standing on, and with no height differential. The nature of the new O’Cll St layout whereby traffic gets held up at certain sets of lights resulting in large expanses roadway lying idle does encourage people to break the lights. I’m not sure that this is a bad thing – if there is no traffic in a largely pedestrianised area, is it not acceptable to do this?
Saying that, the problem arises when traffic gets closer and people continue to hurry or run across; as mentioned before it is this previous casual crossing of others that encourages people later on to put themselves in danger. But again you have to ask, it people cannot exercise good judgement when they see traffic approaching, then whatever danger ensues is entirely of their own makingBut it is those who do not notice the crossing that are at greatest, and if possible to say, most ‘legitimate’ risk. There is a problem in this respect. I remember in Dundalk in the early 90s a horribly busy crazy-paving scheme was laid out in front of the Court House, made up of roadways, islands, and pedestrian crossings, but all made up of different coloured paving bricks.
Eventually it was simplified with the roadway being laid out in tarmac again, likely due to a great many pedestrian complaints – people simply didn’t know if they were on the road or on pavement.The same goes for the Spire crossing, even if things are more clearly defined with the many traffic signals – the crossing is still ambiguous. I fully agree about people being complacent and not looking at where they’re going – I can’t get over how so many people don’t realise there’s a crossing, but you just have to work with the fact that many people just aren’t observant!
Even from my own perspective and knowing the crossing very well, I’d still like to see the kerbline defined more – it’s always difficult to know where to stand to wait.As for a quality paving ‘scheme’ being replaced with ‘cheap’ tarmac, I suggest to you TP that you don’t know this crossing very well. The granite cobbles on the roadway here have nothing at all to do with the beautifully patterned Plaza scheme, nor do they fit into any greater scheme in the street at large. Their removal would have little impact in this area.
Furthermore, the laying of tarmac would do the exact opposite of what you suggest about a ‘patchwork’ effect – rather the crisp black roadway would flow effortlessly from the Upper Street right up the the Plaza – no patches.
And if anything it would improve the current look of acres of bland granite swamping the area around the Spire; elsewhere on the street it is broken with attractive accent tones: at the crossing there is nothing. It is dull, it is boring, it blandly plazafies the area, and above all it is unsafe.Perhaps a contributory factor is that Dublin and Ireland at large is simply not used to this type of scheme – we’ve all grown up with concrete kerbstones and different cloured roadways. Yes we can deviate from this model, but not at the expense of those who are put in danger with the alternative.
There is a paving material problem, and if anything there is far less traffic here than at other junctions in the city so this really is not the issue – rather it is a vague paving scheme coupled with a surrounding pedestrianised environment that lulls the pedestrian into a false sense of security. It’s fine to have such an environment provided where pedestrians and road traffic come head to head the boundaries are clearly defined.
It’ll be interesting to see if anything comes of the incident either way…
Just on another matter, there’s a great new book just out by Jim Keenan called ‘Dublin Cinemas’, and features many of the city’s urban and suburban cineamas photographically, with complementary text on the opposing page.
Naturally of particular interest are the O’Connell Street cinemas 🙂 of the 1920s and 30s.There’s a wonderful image of the Savoy just after completion which shows the orginal elegant canopy in all its glory. It was a lovely slender piece of work – flat, with ridged detailing running along the edge, somewhat reminicent of the Arnotts canopy with possibly bronze used as the cladding material, matching the windows upstairs.
Having seen the canopy in Hodges Figgis and then the current-day ‘refurbished’ silver box 15 minutes later, it’d make you want to cry 🙁
I’d never seen the original canopy before, and it really was just so elegant – it hangs with the upper facade perfectly.The original Portland stone piers on the ground floor are also evident (these are to go back in soon I think) and there’s great big roundy arc lamps illuminating the upper facade 🙂
It really is most surprising in the light of the recent lavish and respectful refusbishment of the interior that the horribly flash and clunky silver box was deemed appropriate for the exterior, especially given the apparent high standards of the same management.
There is perhaps a glimmer of hope that the silver cladding was a temporay measure to get the cinema through its anniversary year, before the exterior being tackled…Yes the Roberts House in the Zoo would be a wonderful location – even if at nighttime the top-lit aspect would disappear.
It seems money is not a problem here 😉 so a lighting specialist could do wonders for the space.As for City Hall’s rotunda, those eagled-eyed amongst you will notice that in RTÉ News’s recent promo for their services, you will note that Mary Wilson Legal Affairs Editor is in fact power-marching across the interior of City Hall and not the Four Courts as as far as I know they could not get access to shoot it 🙂
Very clever.You think that’s fair analogy?! – deliberately jumping over a balcony railing?
Still it raises an important point, those that deliberatly choose to break the lights, and those that just don’t realise there’s a crossing.
I could not agree more about the pedestrian indiscipline in Dublin, and especially at this crossing. It is astounding the level of breaches of the lights here in even the most dodgy of circumstances – people are so stupid it beggars belief at times.
Saying that, on the Henry St side it is more than just a little tempting to break the lights when the whole Plaza and beyond is clearly empty – in such a case I must also admit to having broken the lights on occasion…But a distinction must be made between those who deliberately choose to ignore the signals and those (usually old(er)people) who just don’t see them.
The adoption of a lower speed limit is a good idea, though ought to be a given in any case in such a pedestrian-dominated environment.
Wasn’t there something published this week about local authorities adopting a standard low urban speed limit?Just as the lemming theory is a myth, I think the notion that traffic lights are sufficent in this case is equally so.
Even if a minority of people walk about with their heads in the clouds, it doesn’t mean they must be ignored – they have to be catered for. Yes you do have to draw a line somewhere and this line is reflected in the Plaza I think; there is a sufficient demarcation at work here to cater for all but the most oblivious.
By contrast, the busy nature of the crossing, and all the ‘distractions’ about requires a more careful treatment around the Spire.Even if you’re well used to the crossing it is still difficult to know where to stand at the crossing – usually you have a kerbline making it easier to judge just how close vehicles and bus wing mirrors are passing by. It is much more vague at this crossing.
