GrahamH
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GrahamH
ParticipantReading the Development Plan, as with probably every town in Ireland it is the LA’s aim to preserve and consolidate the existing town centre. It could be argued that the The Marshes is actually in the town centre – just ‘blocked’ as it were by Francis Street which gives another impression.
When the Long Walk opened, the Celtic Tiger just hadn’t taken off as expected – never in a million years would it have been predicted that British multiples would be setting up left right and centre around the country.
Hence the Long Walk was only built to cater for local businesses, with a couple of national brands to boot – all tiny box units with no capacity for larger stores.So I can see the appeal and genuine need for building a new centre, but it is a heck of a waste of development on many levels with the Long Walk – built in the lull before the storm.
As for the new centre, admittedly you cannot help but be charmed by the design, in that all the ‘traditional’ elements are by definition immediately familar and welcoming – but good God the sheer scale of the ‘pastichity’ is just mind-blowing. It is a theme park, no question, not least as it genuinely sets out to accurately reproduce the architecture of old. There’s more beautiful sash windows in this building than there is in the entire historic centre of the town!!
This is literally a monster of a metal box clad in a myriad of architectural idioms, most on the same mile-long facade!
It was built to evoke a ‘traditional streetscape’, but clearly that of a provincial Italian town. They don’t do Palladio like that in this country any more, indeed they never did.GrahamH
ParticipantI’m often surprised at how many people, not least on this site think there is no public access to this, the most celebrated of Dublin’s buildings!
Whereas for the most part is just another prosaic government department, the Custom House Visitor’s Centre in the very heart of the building, accessed via the main Liffey entrance is very much so a public space.
It is also the only remnant of the original interior left (though there may be an odd corridor or two also).Well worth a visit, it features an exhibition about the history of the building, mainly focused on its previous uses, but also the architecture and Gandon himself – all housed in austere stone-clad surroundings.
Esssentially it’s just the main vaulted corridors at the front of the building including the impressive lobby space in the centre – no grand 18th century rooms I’m afraid. Quite sad to realise this is all that remains.Opening Times:
Mid March-November:
Monday-Friday: 10am-12.30pm
Saturday-Sunday: 2pm-5pmNovember-Mid March:
Wednesday-Friday: 10am-12.30pm
Sunday: 2pm-5pmAdmission Prices:
Adults €1
Family €3
Students freeGrahamH
Participantheheheh – oh but you haven’t seen so much as a crumb of this place, it is truly staggering on so many levels.
More pics soon………GrahamH
ParticipantIf there’s one advantage to destroying O’connell Street, it’ll be that the Metro project will have to be finished by the 2015 deadline for the 1916 centenary :rolleyes:
One can imagine the uproar from businesses on the street should such works be carried out here, and I wouldn’t blame them in the slightest – having to go through that all over again. If the station could be located underground on the Carlton that would be beneficial on a number of levels – don’t know how deep the Spire goes though…
Likewise Parnell St East as Greg suggests – the derelict end happily being the one closest to O’Connell St.Even after a station is built under the median, what sort of impact would this have at ground level? Yes London Underground stations are virtually non-existant at street level save some railings, but in the median context they will probably completely consume its width, not to mention a substantial depth. Even the taxis don’t have that impact…
And as for a Luas interchange on the Lower street…. 😮
Interesting diagrams on this PDF as to what might be done on O’Connell St in constructing a station by means of a median cut and cover:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/capconstr/sas/feis/pdf/figure3-07.pdf
GrahamH
ParticipantThey specifically said Westerm Europe though if that makes any difference to your list dc3…
GrahamH
ParticipantThose niches would have been an architectural consideration, not necessitated by the tax, although they do give that impression alright.
They’re partly used to tie in with Gandon’s ‘niched’ Lords block, but primarily because there’s nothing behind those screen walls – no need for windows!GrahamH
ParticipantPerhaps interconnector wasn’t the best term to use asdasd – rather the ‘Luas central corridor’.
It’s too vague to work out on the map – certainly it seems to arrive at the top of O’Connell Street, but how it gets there is anyone’s guess. Are we to take it that it is going the ‘traditional’ route through College Green, O’Connell Bridge etc?Eamonn Ryan was complaining tonight that it wasn’t going down O’Connell St and on to Broadstone – it was unclear if he was referring just to Broadstone, or the whole city centre route.
Giving the media’s love affair with this element of our transport infrastructure in particular – two lines that don’t meet – I’m most surprised there wasn’t a single mention of it today, amongst anyone.GrahamH
ParticipantRoche says that the Window Tax wasn’t introduced in Ireland until 1799, so there was no legislative restrictions at least on the amount of windows one could have in Ireland. By contrast the window tax introduced in Britain sometime in the 1690s seems to have had a major impact on buildings there – you often see Queen Anne-period buildings with windows bricked up, especially gable wall windows which naturally would be the first to be ‘extinguished’ in favour of principal facades.
I remember there was a lot of scoffing at the mock-bricked up windows on Prince Charles’ Poundbury housing scheme when first launched – an indication perhaps of just how widespread a practice it was in the early 18th century.
In Ireland, the introduction of the tax in 1799 seems to have had little to no impact at all which is interesting. I can think of the very odd bricked up gable window in some Georgian townhouses in Dublin, but these could be as much down to the re-arrangement of interior accommodation as the impact of the tax….
I presume 1799 is also when excise duty on glass was introduced to Ireland: us having been saved the imposition of the same in the UK in the 1740s.It’s difficult to assess the impact of either of these measures as so much of development in the capital at least almost came to a halt at exactly the same time. Also architecture was changing, favouring smaller two-bay houses instead of three-bay so again the changes in window use are hard to measure.
GrahamH
ParticipantOn one long-standing issue in particular, what exact route is being taken for the Luas interconnector? No mention in any of the coverage today and the Dept of Transport site is as difficult to navigate as getting a direct answer out of Cullen – any other source?
Prime Time was most entertaining – Eamonn Ryan looking remarkably disgruntled.
GrahamH
Participant@Frank Taylor wrote:
I suspect it’s another threat to An Post and all semistates that if they go on strike, the state will evict them and privatise them.
Ah yes – the classic ‘do as you’re told or we’ll make you into a national monument’ ploy 😀
Yes notjim and jimg sum it up perfectly – it’s the only grand public building in the city that most of the public have access to or have reason to use on a regular basis. The Public Office has an austere but welcoming grandeur to it – as Paul memorably put it, the impressive ceiling ‘floats serenely overhead’ 🙂
Likewise walking in from the street from (almost) underneath the great portico is quite an experience – you get a certain feeling of industriousness and importance walking in to ‘do my business’ 🙂It’s a working building – leave it alone.
GrahamH
ParticipantBombastic just abouts sums up Belfast City Hall alright – which is why we like it so much, Edwardian power-architecture at its best 🙂
The interior is equally vulgar – impressively so 😉With the Custom House, the most impressive aspect to it is that which is perhaps least noticable – its simplicity.
The proportions of the river facade are quite staggering in their finesse, notably the pavilions that are by far my favourite part of the building; they’re stand-alone pieces of architecture in themselves. You could easily slice one off and plonk it down in an entirely new location – though I think it just might be missed 🙂
With the doorway in the centre and the steps also reinstated it could operate quite happily as a beautifully proportioned individual piece of architecture.A bit of training in classical architecture would help, but the one element I’ve never quite ‘got’ as it were is the attic storey of the central block – does anyone else think that it stands out as a bit crude and unfinished, and undesirably prominant in contrast with the rest of the building?

Certainly the extra height on the central block is needed, just the fact that it protrudes above the cornice line almost like an afterthought extension to the main body of the block below makes it jarr somewhat with the collective whole…
The starkness of its almost bare elevation also contrasts starkly with the balustrading alongside and the impeccably adorned facades below…Saying that, from up close it works almost seamlessly – the beautifully restrained ridged detailing along the top being another fine feature of the building:

GrahamH
ParticipantHow very sad that the GPO could be celebrating its 200th birthday with the extinguishing of the very use that brought it into being, and its tokenistic conversion into a sombre chamber of nationalistic reflection.
The GPO is our General Post Office, a place that belongs to the citizens who use it on a daily basis, and should remain as such for as long as we have anything resembling a postal or national communications service in this country. It is not a tool to be used by any political party (I’m guessing this’ll get cross-party support) for the purposes of celebrating their own organisations’ foundations.
The GPO is a staple of O’Connell Street, Dublin city and the country at large, a public place that is as relevant and as much in use as it was in 1818.
The notion of ridding it of its purpose, of its very origins, and replacing it with a museum is quite literally repulsive.By all accounts convert the rest of the vast building to the rear – it’s hardly the most efficient use of An Post’s resources to be headquartered in the contraints of that inner city, traffic choked location anyway.
But to take away the Public Office underneath that great portico would be a criminal act.I agree that this building’s use is as significant as the structure itself and ought to be protected by law.
GrahamH
ParticipantSome great tweaking there Morlan – most impressive how you do that, especially O’Connell Bridge House as I recall, the floors of which you managed to replicate perfectly above, without the glazing or reflections being tell-taleishly identical.
The altered image above certainly puts an interesting spin on things, and I would largely agree that this area could accommodate this height, though would cut them back by two storeys – eight/nine is adequately tall whilst also respecting the grain of the area and the city at large. Eleven really does dominate unpleasantly over existing development
Also interesting to see how the design considerations need to be altered to account for such a change in height – the small windows become so much more monotonous and their vertical shape perhaps doesn’t work quite as well.
The right-hand building in particular looks so much better with that extra height – it’s very squat and bland without that elegant vertical emphasis. Saying that, the ‘handrail’ on top looks quite ridiculous in its new position – more so 🙂GrahamH
ParticipantA fantasic camera alright – alas not all of us have such vast quanities of cash be be splashing about 😀
Yikes those pics are spookily identical! Is that a crop of a wider view you took Morlan?
Hmmm now which is better…..doesn’t need a rocket scientist to work that one out 😉
I’m never on the street that late to even see, let alone capture that beautiful saturating evening sun – the whole city looks so much better at that time. Red brick in particular is spectacular in such light, as above.GrahamH
ParticipantThe first pic I took with the Panasonic FZ5:

…and Sackville Mall with the Sony TRV2000 Time Machine 😀
It’s a middle-range camera, with a 12x optical zoom which was the real attraction. Only got autofocus though which is the catch – otherwise a decent camera, does the job.
…except when you’re in a rush :o. Some pics of a dark Upper street here. It’s really very strange up there now as for the first time in goodnees knows how many decades you can really appreciate the sheer width of the street, vacant of traffic and clutter – almost as it was in 1800s:

And looking south on the eastern side:

The delight that greets guests of the Gresham 🙂

The new taxi rank emerging – the median proper is absolutely minute to accommodate the cars:

It’s not clear if the tree planting pattern is going to be maintained along here. The paving the cars sit on brings the space out to the width of a regular median.
And the holes for the trees and LEDs already in place behind Fr Matthew:

GrahamH
ParticipantI’ve never quite seen what people find so wonderful about this building: pleasant yes, but outstanding – not quite…
It seems it was the best of a bad bunch that was going up 5/6 years ago (though miles ahead by all accounts); just the fact that so much developer dross was going up seemed to have made what is quite an average building stand out as something extraordinary. But certainly it’s much more attractive than some of the stuff being proposed at the minute.It’s always funny so see people’s opinions of the Ulster Bank/One George’s Quay. So many utterly loathe it, while others think it’s the most beautiful building in the city – a glittering crystal palace of sorts. Not sure I’d quite go along with your “there’s no modern building in Europe which surpasses it” ake :eek:, but would agree that the glazing, initially the worst aspect of the building is now the finest element – really quite striking.
Though as one commentator noted upon its completion, the contrast with the Custom House across the river is incredibly cruel. Tall buildings don’t have to be within sightlines of other buildings to have a negative impact – George’s Quay’s massing across the river is quite horrible when one stands in front of the Custom House; it boths steals attention from Gandon’s building and casts a nasty shadow over the Liffey, not to mention over the Custom House itself during the winter when the sun is lower – something that’s never been mentioned.
As for the ubiquitous pyramids…..think the seven on the Ulster Bank is quite enough without Liberty Hall being subjected to one too! 😮I was wondering about the Custom House drum only yesterday on that very point. How much would it cost to rebuild it in Portland stone today? Why wasn’t this done in the 80s considering how expertly it was conserved that time round? Even then vast quantities of Portland were imported to reconstruct the balustrade from scratch in place of the concrete put there post-1921, so why not the drum too?
Would it be possible to do a job similar to the National Museum restoration and literally render over the limestone with a Portland stone based render?
The dark limestone totally undermines the design of the building – indeed it could be argued the drum was detached enough already from the main body of the structure without being compounded with a rebuild in a different colour…
The fact that it’s an icky, dirty brown Ardbraccan rather than a neutral grey or blue variety adds insult to injury.GrahamH
ParticipantYes, here’s the view from Westmoreland St with the hole evident in the middle:

It’s such a great pity there isn’t a distinguished corner to the north Earl St junction – so instead of a grand street with every junction defined, essentially all we have is the single Abbey St crossing highlighted with 3 and a half properly designed corner buildings – such a cop-out.
What a difference it would have made from the Bridge to see the junction of Earl St equally well defined with cupolas or domes. What sight it would have been, and such an important contribution to spatial definition on the street.But especially as Devin says about the pre-1916 terrace being rebuilt to the same low height as before – nothing short of farce on the part of those in charge of reconstruction. If there is one enigma on O’Connell St it is this little terrace – why was it constantly kept small through the ages?! :confused:
As posted before, here it is lower than all the WSC terraces in about 1820:

It may even have been rebuilt again later in the century to the same low height – have yet to find that one out….
GrahamH
ParticipantReasonably priced too at only €25. It’ll be a huge hit for Christmas.
Have to say the interior of the Savoy looks ever so slightly ridiculous though with that Venetian streetscene – in contrast to the foyer which is magnificent.GrahamH
ParticipantThat’s interesting lunasa, especially as the date ties in with the removal of the lamps from most of the city centre. Whatever about the standards, the lamps no doubt even then would’ve been quite desirable being of high quality copper, and somwhat quirky in appearance – suited to many commerical premises.
When you think that at about 32 posts went up on O’Cll St – sure that’s 64 lamps alone! Add to that Westmoreland St, College Green and Dame St and you’re approaching 150!
Where the heck did they all go?! The fact that a handful turned up in lunasa’s market perhaps suggests that a wholescale sell-off or disposal was not carried out by the Corporation….It is sadly ironic that when a lamp moves from the busiest streets in the country to its final ‘resting place’ away from danger, that it is only then it gets destroyed 🙁

Looks like this one was cleaned up to its original state before re-erection in the park.
It seems highly likely the standards were ground up alright – there’s no way 70+ of these could have been kept in storage 🙁GrahamH
ParticipantWas only on the Botanics years ago – still haven’t been since the restorations 😮
It’s just too damn awkward to get to, must make the effort some day soon…As for windows – ha! Most of what little I know is ‘self-taught’ if that’s the term from trudging the streets, i.e. to be taken with a quarry-load of salt and a cynical outlook on life 😉
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