GrahamH
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GrahamH
ParticipantSpot on Rory! 😀

At last, it can be put to bed 🙂
As originator of the photograph, it’s impossible for me to tell if the picture was too abstract – was it? It’s very easy just to assume it looks like a reflection to everyone!I was going to run with this, but it would have been too easy for you lot.

And here is the Hibernian Corner in full view, built in the mid-1970s along with two other notorious office blocks on Dawson and Nassau streets; this is definitely the most palatable, if lacking in finesse.

Very much in the vein of standard UK office architecture of the period, the expansive glazing wrapping around the corner gives it a certain transparent quality. Apparently it has magnificent views over Trinity.
As can be seen, the metal grids are still up, and the cladding tiles are still popping off – when is this long-running saga going to be resolved?

Hopefully soon, as nearly the entire complex of buildings is up for letting now according to The Irish Times six weeks ago.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2006/1018/1160606722578.html
And the thread where the ’tile issue’ cropped up in 2003.
GrahamH
ParticipantWithout question it is the lack of a rear exit at the west end that is most infuriating. It’s nothing short of bizarre that you pass by acres of Dunnes Stores frontage on Mercer Street, walking the entire way around the store before finally entering the centre at the side, especially if you want to avail of that particular outlet: completing a near 360 degree round trip. And this in the face of their Head Office directly across the road too.
Now that the whole George’s Street area is a bustling commercial location, it’s high time this market was served with a new rear entrance. If it means dividing the Dunnes unit in two, so be it. Times have changed since the doldrums of the 1980s.
GrahamH
ParticipantFantastic news – all that’s need now is a new bridge to link the two 🙂
Not that it’s exactly indicative of the typical Dublin experience (as video in any event heightens tensions), but the video below does convey just how ridiculously hostile Dublin city centre can be at times for pedestrians and cyclists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klIqo4ft3aQ
Could it ever have been imagined 100 years ago that the urban experience would be so drastically altered?
GrahamH
ParticipantI’d agree with you regarding the stuck-on panes getting irritating the more you look at them 🙂 – effective perhaps for an hotel or similar, but in an intimate domestic setting they’re perhaps overly obvious. This is possibly how Wynns as a protected building got away with it – a city centre hotel with all the attendant urban noise intruding on guest bedrooms could have been looked at with an element of sympathy by planners. And the sashes were ‘only’ 80 years old, and probably had modern glass.
Given how relatively new this product is to the market, I’ve no idea how planners view its use in protected structures, cobalt – others would be better placed to answer. If I was in your position, I’d probably go out of my way to retain as much of the original frames and glass as possible, but failing that, reproduction sashes with high performance single glazing is definitely the best option in fulfilling both aesthetic and most insulation requirements. No idea as to cost for such glass.
But again the old chestnut raises its head – what exactly is ‘energy efficient’? That is, if you don’t have room-by-rrom themostatically controlled heating, having doubling glazing isn’t going to make the slightest bit of difference either to your consumption of energy or your fuel bills. If your heating is turned on and left on as it is in most people’s homes without constantly sampling room temperature and turning off accordingly, double glazing, and indeed arguably any insultation, is as good as redundant insofar as fuel consumption is concerned.
Not that this should in any way be used as an excuse in older buildings – as every building should have room thermostats – but it’s also a simple reality that most properties do not. And even if you do, well heating is generally put on in the evening, when shutters are closed and curtains are drawn. The generally modest sash window is by no means the elephant in the room as far as insulation is concerned, unlike walls and ceilings, and they even feature shutters unlike expansive 70s picture windows.
Just some points to consider…Secondary internal glazing is also an option, and can work well in some cases. But generally I’ve yet to see a good example for Georgian or Victorian sashes (casements adopt it much better). With the former, it also tends to ruin the architecture of the internal sash and shutter ensemble 🙁
GrahamH
ParticipantHow do you mean it ‘wouldn’t be on’, cobalt, to have glazing bars applied to the surface of the glass? Granted, the notion sounds preposterous and truly hideous in concept, but in execution it’s quite a good compromise.
As featured earlier on the thread, here are Wynns Hotel’s in Dublin doubled glazed sash windows as newly installed about two years ago:https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=692&stc=1&d=1114559190
https://archiseek.com/content/attachment.php?attachmentid=691&stc=1&d=1114559161
Installed in a fine c.1920 neoclassical granite building, they make an admirable attempt at timber sash reproduction using modern double glazing and bar application. The glazing bars are applied to the surface of the glass internally and externally using industrial adhesive tape. Fair enough, the bars look ever so slightly fake, but that’s as much down to their lack of depth as their surface mounting. This could probably improved on. The frame detailing is also a bit clunky, but at least the dodgy horns of the top floors are nothing to do with double glazing!
As for going with timber sash windows on a new build shelly81, why go traditional at all? A crisp modern sash is as good as anything, as used across Europe and the US. The sash shouldn’t be deemed as being olde worlde.
I’ve seen this modern spring system in use galwayrush – springs incased in small plastic (though painted) tubes, and used in this instance for hauling incredibly heavy, large hardwood double glazed one-over-ones. Franky a lot are jammed, in spite of being only ten years old and with minimal use. I wonder as to the effectiveness of this method. Also, could you describe in more detail how it works?
GrahamH
ParticipantAbsolutely archipimp, and it’s great to see DCC are on the ball in this respect: “The applicant should be advised to note that in a development of this scale it is reasonable that the majority of all new housing shall be family friendly. In this regard the applicant is requested to justify the following: (i) The unacceptably high proportion of one-bed units at 31%. (ii) That just 15% of the overall housing provision is three bedrooms or more. The Planning Authority is of the opinion that it is unreasonable that the proportion of units with just two bedrooms or less constitute over 85% of such a large-scale housing development.”
It continues in requesting an amenity value assement of each apartment, and even addresses the entrance area in no diplomatic terms: “The applicant is requested to clarify and justify the location and size of the primary proposed entrance to the residential units. The proposed 3m wide and extensively long corridor residential entrance to Block B is unsuitable for a primary residential access. The applicant is advised to note that an important component in identifying successful urban apartment living – and a critical component in the quality of life of those who live there – is the generosity, and imagination of residential entrances. The proposed development, in this regard, manifestly fails to demonstrate that imagination or generosity. The lobby entrance to the proposed units require significant improvement in terms of their, scale, design and relationship to the street.”
An unequivocally hard line being taken there. I imagine this concern for living accomodation is prevalent with all proposed developments of late.
GrahamH
ParticipantAfraid not Stephen – though an excellent guess. It suits it perfectly. Not Coyle Hamilton Willis either Rory – evident by the fact that the lens didn’t crack 🙂

However neither is far off – we’re getting much warmer. Don’t think decorative motif with the frills – rather texture..
Two quick and easy ones in the meantime 🙂
A

B

GrahamH
ParticipantNope not the Pav roigsh, though it’s loike, on thash soide of the campus alroighsh CM 🙂
Is it a campus building, or is it a city building though? Hmmm…
I can’t give the materials away as you’ll get it instantly. All I can say is focus on the frilly edge – it is by no means a minor detail on this building. It features prominently on the facade. So dominant indeed that it’s probably not even noticable.
GrahamH
Participant😀
That drives me nuts! Though London also seems to have the same regimentalising problem in fairness – apparently only the Americans can light their trees properly!

An elegant tree has been sourced for this year for O’Connell Street anyway – nicer than last year and surely the tallest we’ve ever had, if not quite the largest. It shall be interesting to see what barriers are put in place to prevent these silver stars from being nicked and sold for €20 a pop round the corner on Henry Street.
Great idea to attach decorations to the lampposts the whole way down the thoroughfare. Just a pity something a bit more distinguished than blown up tacky Henry St versions weren’t selected for the city’s main street.
GrahamH
ParticipantOne slight concern with this space and the development that lines it is the potential for it to feel like a ‘novelty area’, detached from the grid pattern around it, with the walkways and mutli-faceted buildings lending it a temporary, almost gimmicky air rather than that of a solid urban space. Not that this difference doesn’t have its virtues, but it would be a shame for the visitor to feel completely lost in this ‘lifestyle experience’ in what is currently a coherent area. The combination of the GPO elevation and the remounted facade of Arnotts however should blend the area into the city quite effectively.

Indeed I’d be interested to know who will own this space upon completion: will DCC or Arnotts maintain the streetscape and walkways? And will this be a semi-private space with security gaurds and photography protection squad?
Very curious development taking place last week on Henry Street, Dr Quirkey-style:


Presumably the entire facade is now covered. This for the planners? If so it’s clearly being given active consideration.
Also the lovely simple Christmas lights on the original building were lit for the first time in years, all the bulbs newly replaced 🙂

Indeed looking at the above photo, you can really imagine how impressive the orginal facade concept would have been if executed, stretching way into the distance with its two giant towers piercing the skyline.
One odd feature of the current application is the express statement that the current domed centre of the store “will not be affected by this application”, accompanied by photographs of the space. And yet this part clearly overlaps the tower by a substantial degree:

Unless it’s going to go and they just haven’t proposed anything to replace it yet.
It’s a very odd experience walking through the vast hall at the moment buzzing with people – akin to the Grand Staircase on the Titanic, thinking little do they know that soon all of this is going to be under water 😀Again in the above picture you can see the 1960s elevation to Henry Street is wider at the front almost to the depth of a small tower.
GrahamH
Participant17/11/2006
The houses are finished.

Including the balconies as originally positioned:

Lovely traditional delicate design for the smaller house, while the larger one oddly features a modern pattern?

All the shiny bolts need to be painted – something for the snag list.
Also magnificent iron flourishes on the corners of the railings:

…if perhaps a little off in scaling? Maybe it’s just the large gate next to it.

I don’t think we’ve seen such attention to detail with railings in any reproduction in thirty years.
The completed doorcase of one of the two principal houses, with perhaps a little OTT Regency furniture:

(have a fanlight detail later)
The smaller far left-hand replica, the final house in a series of similar Georgian houses, has had an excellent reproduction doorcase installed:



An expert eye would be able to verify, but it would appear to be reconstitued stone given its very smooth surface, not to mention the complex detailing that would cost a fortune to execute in natural stone.

As can be seen, it’s not identical to the one next door, but most of the doorcases in these smaller houses seem to have replaced the 18th century originals, given their current Regency character. This would fit with the fact that Gardiner’s developments tended to attract fashion conscious merchant classes rather than stodgy old money. The amount of replacemnt plate glass about is also telling.
The door surround of this house and some brickwork did survive the demolitions though – alas it doesn’t seem to have been incorporated into the new building. But overall a job exceedingly well done. Top marks to those responsible.
GrahamH
ParticipantDid I read recently that there was a small fire in one of these buildings, resulting in the repro doorcase melting and having to be replaced?! 😀 😀
There was also a wonderful irony recently in the case of the above building, recently offices of IIB Bank. The bank recently sponsored Duncan Stewart’s ‘About the House’ programme, and hence had a life-size grinning cardboard cut out of him in their lobby, doing a thumbs up gesture or sumesuch though their reproduction front door.
Duncan Stewart of course was one of the most vociferous campaigners for the saving of the original townhouses.GrahamH
Participantctesiphon I could not agree with you more. Wing mirror clipping is a serious problem in the capital, with hideously dangerous consequences. As a committed pedestrian who frankly spends more time on the streets than off them, I’ve had countless near misses, with mirrors sweeping literally a hair’s breadth away: luckily never having been hit to date.
Without question the pavement ought to be a safe haven for pedestrians, from kerb to building line, but my point is that for good or bad this simply is not the reality on Dublin’s streets. Most fast moving narrow streets such as Dame Street, O’Connell Street, Nassau Street and Dawson Street are notoriously dangerous for vulnerable kerb walkers, myself included. It’s very frightening when you skip out onto the kerb, especially when in a rush, only to see a bus mirror heading straight for you – it is in this respect I refer to the self-held perception of invincibility of many pedestrians. In Dublin you simply cannot rely on authorities to protect you, with that intangible ‘protective’ municipal force lulling you into a false sense of security. You presume everything to be regulated and tightly planned, but it simply isn’t.
In fact I find bollards can be even more dangerous than their absence, as people continue to use the kerbline regardless, especially during peak times and/or due to the inadequate space allocated to the pedestrian in general in the city. Only when a wing mirror approaches with bollards, it’s even more difficult to avoid it, with the bollards forming a barrier to your getting back into the pavement, especially if walking fast which kerb walkers inevitably are. That mightn’t make sense on paper, but on a crowded evening pavement where everything is flashing and fast moving, it’s very easy to get tangled in a bollard and have your head taken off in the process.
And of course on what are already narrow pavements, rows of bollards simply consume even more space. It’s no wonder granite kerbs are an enduring feature of Dublin’s streets (even if Portuguese), not because they’re aesthetically pleasing but because they form an unofficial Iarnród Éireann-style ‘Keep behind This Line’ boundary.
Most bus drivers are conscientious and will keep their distance, but high speed pulling in to the kerb is probably the most dangerous and frightening procedure some drivers practice – it really needs to stop.Interesting what you say about the impact on cyclists of street furniture so close to the road – what a nightmare this must be, especially where a cycle lane isn’t provided. Definitely a factor only a cyclist-planner would note. To get that implemented across all divisions within the council, from Lighting to Roads, would be a ‘challenging’ task. This is where the buzzword of joined-up thinking comes to the fore.
Believe me, I’m staunchly on the pedestrian’s side on this one.
Though as a driver, cyclist and pedestrian, I’d love to see the bitter rows you have with yourself 😀GrahamH
ParticipantOh – and it’s not tilted or otherwise doctored in any way.
GrahamH
ParticipantI know! But we didn’t know then – that’s the point! 🙂
I am really surprised the above building hasn’t been pounced on yet – it’s been discussed a number of times on this forum in relation to a specific matter of its ‘being’ (though probably before both your times cte & Seamus :o). A very prominent structure too – not at all a minor location.
And an embarrassing correction: it is not visible from Trnity’s rugby pitch, at all in fact. However it is very near as originally stated..
Indeed I saw it only today – definitely a building you will pass one day with the light catching on it, and will immediately correlate with the abstraction above.GrahamH
ParticipantVery sad news, and shocking – one could never imagine Sam as being less than larger than life and in full health. Only heard it on the radio this morning, ironically on the exact same programme as the very last time I heard him – booming in tandem with Tom McGurk in debate, waxing about Dublin’s development past and present. As far as I recall, he had come round to the opinion that all tall buildings ought to be centralised in the Docklands.
You can listen here to Frank McDonald on the radio this morning, as well as a clip of Sam recalling sleeping with Charles Haughey – twice 🙂
http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/230-2190644.smil (5.30)
He always came across as casual and rather tongue in cheek in his later media dealings – as if bemused that people would want to listen to what he had to say. And frankly he did have very little to say when in conversation – tended to ramble, ironically like Charlie. But he was surprisingly never exasperated about mindlessly repeated questions about all the sagas through the years – always willing to talk about them. There is no question that he had mellowed.
Just like the Central Bank, I think the Civic Offices have matured significantly since construction. Indeed one would have to question the extent to which the design of these buildings was ever despised – perhaps it was more their association with the destruction of the site than anything. Though their bombastic nature was admittedly not exactly a conciliatory gesture at the time…
If anything, the recent comparatively fussy STW addition (though decent) has only made the original blocks all the more sparse and elegant. They appear cool, crisp and confidently modern. And in spite of their enormously domineering nature, from a distance they are surprisingly humble structures. Being so isolated and detached, they’d remind you of a humble salt and pepper set 🙂
Stephenson’s less noted work is perhaps his most refined – the Dublin Institute building is an elegant solution for an awkward site:

There are many of these wine-bricked office buildings about the inner city, some better than others – presumably Sam’s firm was responsible for a number of them. Another discreet example would be the office opposing Connolly Station’s ramp – possibly by S.G&A too.
Whatever about his at times misguided ambition in the 1960s and 1970s, he made a significant contribution to the betterment of Irish architecture in the 20th century.
Both in terms of projects he was working on, and his wit and charm, he will be sorely missed.GrahamH
ParticipantWow, excellent – thanks for those.
It looks so exciting, and like it’s costing a bomb! The poles are a bit taller than I expected.
It’s evident already that there’s going to be a superb standard of finish.GrahamH
ParticipantOh no – so near yet so far, and right at the City Hall junction 🙁
Surely they have tons of original granite in storage!The bollards are fancy, but are they needed? I thought it was DCC policy, or should that be best practice, to limit the alterations, i.e incisions, to original paving? In all fairness, if you’re walking along the kerbline with that vast extent of paving to walk on, you deserve to be clipped by a bus.
I note your image is sideways Devin – I presume your tourist camera just happened to accidentally take a picture next to the workmen while ‘testing’ it? Funny that, mine does the exact same for some reason.
GrahamH
ParticipantClearly they must, given the window through the pictures below were taken (apologies) certainly didn’t do these developments any favours.
Relevant to the War with Capital thread but perhaps more apt here, below is another classic example of the suburbanisation of the countryside with appalling design, on this occasion in Co Louth. Dundalk and the southern seaside village of Blackrock were once two very separate entities, divided by a green belt roughly a mile deep comprised of marshy fields near the coast and solid ground further in. Over the past ten years, but especially the past five, the coast road linking the two together has seen an explosion in ribbon development, comprised solely of estates, small groupings of speculative houses, and the inevitable one-offs. Not a single service is provided for, or ever can be provided, as the density is simply too low. Perhaps the planning authority’s thinking on this is that residents can avail of the warehouse retail park nearby – Atlantic Homecare does after all sell chocolate at its tills.
What is most offensive about this development is that what was once a tranquil rural area is now plastered with the most hideously designed buildings I have ever come across. It simply beggars belief that this scenic coastal location with wild salt marshes directly across the road and the Cooley Mountains sweeping away into the distance has been trashed with such monstrous development. Just look at this travesty of design:


An absolutely horrific scene presented to the visitor and resident alike – it literally makes you weep having to pass it on a regular basis. The usual suspects of plastic cladding, plastic windows, vast expanses of ghastly pebble dashed wall, tokenistic use of red brick, ridiculous scaling and basic design principles eschewed, galvanised features, exposed piping, unadorned metal lampposts, acres of tarmac for all the cars, soulless walled-in access roads etc etc etc…
Located in what is officially known as the middle of nowhere, this development is entirely car dependent: the nearest shop in either direction is at least a mile, with churches and schools probably even further.
Further down the road a similar development of laughable ‘townhouses’, i.e. tall narrow shoeboxes for first rungers, is being thrown up, with twee stone cladding, gables and more white plastic windows. Again no variety, no evidence of considered design, no services, car dependent and fronting a busy regional road.
Down the road even further there’s a more traditional estate of four-bed semis just completed – the same problems yet again.And in the midst of all of this is a single late Georgian farmhouse, only five years ago standing completely on its own, scenically nestled in the wilderness, painted a pale colour and softened by surrounding trees. It originally featured typical timber sashes, fascias and iron rainwater goods. Not protected, the owners recently saw fit to rip everything out bar the original slates, and give it the usual Celtic Tiger treatment in all its garish forms. Finally the adjoining garden was carved up and the whole lot sold off for a nice tidy packet.
Alas the rest of us are now lumped with the delightful scene of a ravaged period building, wrapped up in a hideous ‘protective’ six foot wall, new access road to cater for the ever-expanding hoards of car commuters, and a garden full of no less than three sunny yellow, detached monsters:


Needless to say at least one is currently rented, presumably by the developer, whilst the others were recently marketed for sale as ‘Executive Residences’.
Rant ends.
It’s only when you see more and more mindless development going up that you realise this is an unstoppable machine. Farmers are selling fields here for millions, all with access to a regional route and presided over by an appeasing planning authority of the smallest county in Ireland with the country’s two largest towns, desperate for levies and with probably under-resourced planning divisions.
What’s frightening is that there’s countless more fields to be filled in in this area, flanking the town and neighbouring village, with seemingly no coherent, detailed area plan in place. It seems every time you pass down this road a new section of hedgerow has disappeared revealing more hideous development – which ironically would have been better left covered. It really is depressing.
GrahamH
ParticipantImpressed by the lighting, that is all PTB (in the context of another thread)
Couldn’t agree with you more regarding what is a disappointingly drab and dreary public space. It’s not quite finished yet, so there may yet be soft landscaping of a sort to go in, but admittedly it’s unlikely.
With the dull granite wall on one side, the Portland facade of City Hall on the other, and the grey slabs pasted down around your feet, it makes for a souless, harsh addition to the city. The seating’s execution in granite merely adds to the dullness of the landscape.
Trees such as weeping birch, particularly around the perimeter of the site would make a big difference.The seating design is attractive though, if the metal stud detail uncomfortable for a number of sitters on any one side.
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