GrahamH
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Fully agreed on all your points Peter. It’s so very easy to fall into the Public Transport = Good, Private Car = Bad mentality, especially when dealing with hugely significant, multifaceted places like College Green. In fact it doesn’t matter a damn who’s occupying what, and if anything, when it comes to assessing important central urban areas it is quite the reverse – the reality in Dublin is that buses are the real curse of the city centre, not private cars.
When viewing College Green as the pedestrianised, sensitively managed historic space that it ought to be, low lying private cars are comparitively unobtrusive relative the the ranks of buses that come frighteningly roaring around from Dame Street, sweeping the curve of the Bank of Ireland, or quickly stopping at the pedestrian crossing, creating a cliff-face inches from pedestrians who are reluctant to walk anywhere near it. Or on the other side as they sweep around from Trinity over towards Habitat, or on to Grafton Street. While we all have to put up with an element of this everywhere, the notion that the elimination of private cars in favour of more buses plus Luas through this area will somehow make it into a relaxed utopia of strolling pedestrians and reticent public transport modes silently floating through the place is simply poppycock. If this plan goes ahead, and while I welcome the elimination of as much traffic as possible in the city centre, all it will serve to do is replace low-lying cars, who’s drivers generally drive cautiously in this area, with even more roaring buses confidently driven by familar drivers.
Of course this is the real world, and in the real world the realities of routing public transport must be faced, but unquestionaly all the stops must be pulled out to ensure that College Green is pedestrianised and cleared of all forms of traffic as far as is practicable.
I must apologise – simply forgot to reply. No tension heightening intended 🙂
It is indeed Roches hutton – excellent work.
I just spotted it in the spilling rain, and thought it would be suitably obscure.
The warm lighting of Roches looks great whenever it’s heavily overcast. The vertical signs have just been replaced with very sharp Debenhams ones.
Yes the Cavendish Row picture was taken about 9am-10am, and probably in the winter. I’m surprised people are a bit evasive about the orientation of Parnell Square – it’s surely one of the most ‘iconic’ elements on a Dublin map, along with the Trinity campus and St. Stephen’s Green? It’s even more skewed than O’Connell Street (due to the lie of the Gardiner lands), making the square more diagonal than vertical and hence close to a N/W-S/E orientation.
Here’s another quick (or not) one.
hutton could you clarify how the 25 bicycle stands are to be funded, if this 70-strong advertising scheme is unrelated? You note that “funding for the bike project was set aside specifically just over a year ago”, and is unconnected with this current project – in which case how/who is paying for the cycling scheme? Thanks.
Yes I noted the Grafton Street application today in disbelief, given the context of the recently drafted Area of Special Planning Control, and ACA. Reading through the former document (which is even more comprehensive than its northside equivalent), it would leave any reasonably-minded person incredulous as to the brazenly two-faced stance being adopted here by DCC – on the one hand rejecting outright any attempts by retailers and property owners to advertise in a format anything other than discreet, highly self-contained International Post-modern Uber Chic (TM), including an unfavourable outlook on ‘internally illuminated signs including box signs [or] illuminated scrolling signs”, and reels and reels of stipulations regarding other forms of advertising structures, and yet on the other hand are willing to bend the rules to suit their own cash cow development, in a much more exposed location in the middle of the public domain! And, as it happens, near the entrance to the southern end of the street, the very part of the thoroughfare of critical importance in generating first impressions!
Just related to this scheme, people may have noticed that many of the planning notice signs about the city are mounted on brand new aluminium boards and clamped over with polycarbonate screens – a very recent innovation.
They’re made, erected and maintained by a service provider by the name of Site Notices Ireland: you select how often (if at all) your notice is maintained, even up to daily, so it’s no wonder they came in handy with this advertising scheme, with the notices being erected in highly vulnerable areas.
Here’s their site – a single notice erected and maintained once a week costs €410, with costs decreasing per additional sign. An example of a current private property use is the Georgian building next to Merchant’s Arch, another highly trafficked location, which is currently seeking to restore the facade and granite steps.
You know, you just can’t beat tourists’ photoblogs for dating developments in Dublin, more often than not accompanied with wonderfully comprehensive dates (and hilarious commentaries).
The below image is dated precisely to July 21st 2000, and as can be seen the Guinness sign is still in situ, while the scaffolding appears to be coming down on the front elevation and going up on the side (that’s the old cladding still on the side isn’t it?)
We’ve been looking at these for no reason since 2003?!
So what’s the likelihood of the poles’ foundations being correctly addressed at each location? Will the red bricks on Parnell Street be reinstated? Will antique granite be sourced for the various parts of Merrion Square that require it? (as some in fairness are sited in concreted areas too). And will concrete slabs be inserted as per surrounding paving at other locations – or is it a splodge of concrete all round?
Afraid not goneill and Greg.
You’re persistent as ever Seamus – I’m surprised you haven’t got the second one! Only clue I’ll give is that it has featured on the thread before…
Spot on Mr hutton – it is indeed Cavendish Row 🙂
Looking up from O’Connell Street in the morning sun. Those two flat chimneys in the middle are very eye-catching in the vista northwards.
Not sure what the chimney in the extreme bottom left is from though – the Gate?So only this left – it may not be glossy in all weathers…
Linky 😉
Beautifully shot.
The archive footage of workmen trying to erect a sign on a post that is two times too big for it is worth its weight in gold.
Yes I wouldn’t mind a picture either if anyone has one 🙂
The above structure seems to be a typical 1950s concrete shed of column and sleeper construction, where horizontal bands were slotted down between the verticals like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Another example is on the Drumcondra Road near the Griffith Avenue Garda station, with its gable facing the road. This type of building always tends to make me uneasy – suppose they’re reminicent of wartime construction aren’t they: POW and even concentration camps…
Absolutely – there’s tons of this lying about somewhere, even from very recent works. What’s particularly ludicrous about this job is that the city-wide method of retaining just the kerbstones for continuity hasn’t even been adhered to, and yet kerbstones are the most widely available form of antique granite. There’s bucketloads of the stuff recently extracted from countless streets, with Upper O’Connell Street alone capable of lining Henrietta Street twice over. Indeed what was on this site beforehand? Are the paving works the completion of the reconstruction following from the collapse of the roadway into some of the basements? Where’s the granite gone that was here before?
To put this travesty in context, note the discrepancy between the public face of the Conservation Plan as highlighted in the below RT
Absolutely. Butt Bridge’s lovely mellow granite balustrades are in a particularly poor state, with balusters missing and metal railings clipped about the place for as long as I can remember – railings that don’t even seem to serve any purpose. There have been some excellent restoring insertions done here in the past, with appropriate granite sourced, and yet in other places (as seen below) there’s even O’Connell Bridge Portland balusters hacked in! 😮
Only in Dublin…
There’s also a nasty litter problem round here that needs sorting, as does the paving (or lack thereof).I sourced the kiosk article from the Irish Mail on Sunday below. Also here they are about a year ago – nothing’s changed except the blind shop has closed I think.
€2 million flop we dreamed would rival Paris
By Warren SwordsIt was intended to be a cultural development ranking along the best any city in Europe could offer. Dublin city planners hoped a book market would rival markets along the River Seine in Paris abd the famous medieval Ponte Vecchio across the River Arno in Florence.
However, just three years later, Dublin City Council has admitted that the project on Capel Street Bridge (also known as Grattan Bridge) has been a disappointment – because no booksellers ever expressed an interest in opening there.
The council installed four elaborate, space-age kiosks in February 2004. Now, however, instead of selling wonderful and rare book, three of the outlets remain empty while the other has been let to yet another newsagent.
Every other business that opened on the bridge was forced to close due to lack of turnover – including an art gallery, a company that sold blinds, and a florist. The result is a €2 million eyesore that has blocked arguably one of the best river views in any European city.
Martin Kavanagh, executive manager at Dublin City Council, admitted that the council was disappointed at how the development has turned out. He added: ‘Maybe one of the advantages of taking out two of the kiosks would be to restore the view of the river.’
The council is now considering moving the ‘market’ to another location, such as the corner of George’s Street and Dame Street.
Ends.
So moving two or four of them? Would this be that gaping hole at the back of the big rendered WSC building on the corner?
A very odd relevation that the portico columns were intended to be fluted considering the building material in question: can anyone think of a single case of a fluted granite column of a non-Doric variety in the city, if not wider? They would have been a nightmare to carve, and probably yield unsatisfactory results too.
The internal altar columns are absolutely marvellous in how they frame the space – they look so distinguished and austere when silhouetted. Of course with limited, if any, artificial lighting in the 19th century they wouldn’t have had quite the same impact.
One point probably often forgotton about Bryne’s Our Lady of Refuge Rathmines church is that prior to the installation of the lavish baroque Russian dome after the 1920 fire, it had a decidely reticent, squat dome almost identical to that of the Royal Exchange/CityHall, to which Byrne of course was architect during the conversion around 1850. Given his fondness for the building, demonstrated as much by his dramatic watercolour from earlier years as anything, one one woulder how he felt about slicing the place up for municipal offices…
Something of a modern-day take on the watercolour is made with the interior photograph of the building in The Buildings of Ireland: Dublin 😉
Trojan work Devin – very impressive. It really has to be acknowledged the painful amount of repetitive, detailed work that goes into following up these unauthorised works. It is the mundane reality of monitoring development which goes unpaid, un-praised, and unacknowledged by the majority who don’t have the time or will to pursue the cause of good planning.
The sheer scale of the flagrant breaching of regulations by such an established, so-called ‘reputable’ firm like Spar is genuinely shocking. It’s astonishingly widespread, replicated over and over again at every location. Obviously it’s the franchise operators that are central in this, but it’s all still happening under the brand and image bombardment pursued by the parent organisation on a wider level. That new generic nameplate yoke apparently issued by Spar Ireland says it all: something that can be tacked onto virtually anything, in almost any environment. It has clearly originated from Head Office as a standardised unit to be rolled out across the city, and yet with such a wealth of experience in retail planning, one would really wonder as to how they think this in any way conforms to shopfront guidelines and what is deemed to be appropriate development. Hence one can only come to the conclusion that with such an expensive venture (design etc), from such an astute, savvy organisation, they had every intention to churn this rebranding out in the knowledge that DCC is either a soft touch, or in the (probably to be expected) hope that nobody would notice.
As with the above stores, Spar on Upper O’Connell Street (featured before) in the elegant Lynam’s Hotel building equally continues to flagrantly flout planning laws, in what is supposed to be the most rigorously controlled urban environment in the country. Having applied for permission to erect a “new internally lit polished steel fascia sign, new SPAR & Dublin Bus projecting signs & new lighting over front elevation”, they were rejected outright by DCC in early 2005. They comprehensively claimed:
“The proposed development by reason of the material and colour of the internally illuminated aluminium fascia panel, the material and projection of the ‘SPAR’ and ‘BUS STOP’ projecting signs and the application of corporate imaging would be inconsistent with the policies and objectives of the O’Connell Street Architectural Conservation Area designation, would be out of character with nos. 63-64 O’ Connell Street protected structures and would be contrary to the implementation of good shop front design, as provided for within the Dublin City Council ‘Shop front Design Guide’ and the ‘Shop Front Design Guidelines for the O’Connell Street Area’.”
From what I can gather, this exact sign regardless exists over the premises at present, though possibly without the illuminated element – perhaps the intention of the application was to alter this to that proposed. If the sign is anything go by, it’s no wonder DCC rejected this token attempt at subtlety with silver lettering (which is itself quite reasonable), given the crude metal facia backplate onto which it and a logo have been mounted.
In any event, Spar simply hung a (prohibited) banner over the sign, and to this very day it still hangs there, within yards of the GPO.
Why should it be up to the public to sort these things out on such a principal thoroughfare? It’s simply not on that nobody in DCC Planning appears to be monitoring the principal thoroughfares of the city, again probably due to unfortunate under-resourcing on a wider level.
Similarly regarding Londis across the road – their ghastly ‘temporary sign’ will farcically be two years old in May, even in spite of featuring in a national newspaper, and being present throughout all of the planning for the 1916 Commemoration where it formed a delightful backdrop to the brass band. Again why should it be up to us to point out brazen indiscipline like this?
And on a related topic, there’s absolutely no excuse for genuine ‘temporary’ signs to be as garish as the above. These too should be severely clamped down on – the same regarding banners. If you can’t erect a basic unobstrusive sign for a couple of weeks, you don’t erect anything.
It’s very easy for us all to sit in our armchairs and chatter about these matters, so if you feel suitably riled by the sharp practice of Spar stores across the capital, write to them. Head Office is:
Spar Ireland Limited
Greenhills Road
Walkinstown
Dublin 12
IrelandOr alternatively e-mail. As “being at the heart of communities across Ireland”, they’re sure to take your comments graciously on board. They do after all “want to hear from you” so fill in their form on their website where “a member of staff will contact you shortly”.
http://www.spar.ie/site/contact-us.cfm?pageId=824§ionId=25&level=1
For once, a non-planning related point you raised at the end Devin is that that infuriates me most about these convenience stores. Every one in the city, no matter where, you’re greeted with the same mind-numbing glowing walls of refrigerated units of mineral water and soft drinks, ranks of cheap chocolate and crisps with absolutely no selection right across the city, the obligatory rack of stodgy salt, saturated fat and sugar laden pastries and white breads, the roar of an air curtain trying to curtail the bucketloads of artificially heated air belching out through the permanent gaping hole in the streetscape, and all dazzlingly lit with the subtlety of an arc lamp on steroids. Do take the Convenience Store Test for yourself: simply try sourcing a bar of plain chocolate in a branded convenience store anywhere in Dublin City – preferably not a slab of Bournville – and see how far you get.
It is so depressing to observe what has become of our former newsagents, and the impact it is having on our streets, even after dark. Yes, the modern streamlined interior design approach of the ‘flagship’ stores is a welcome improvement on what we have had, however they are in the extreme minority. It is laughable that Spar’s timber-fronted Merrion Row store is depicted as if the norm on their website. Indeed their blurb in a media pack about the outlet is quite hilarious – clearly they deem only a 500m radius of Government Buildings to be of architectural merit in the city:
“despite planning limitations, [the building] offers passers-by a great view of the store and particularly its coffee, smoothie and sandwich offerings. The gold signage – a limitation of planning – works for the location far better than the traditional livery might. In such a mature area of the City, so close to government buildings and other areas of architectural interest, bright neon signage would set the wrong tone for the store anyway. Since there are very few parking spaces nearby on one of the busiest streets in the capital, the number of customers in cars attracted by the familiar SPAR livery would also be limited – negating the need for it.
So they openly admit what we already knew: 1) their signage is tawdry and tacky, and 2) is used for maximum impact on the streetscape.
Thirded – the ever-present rank of cars and white vans outside the gates of the Castle on Palace Street is an embarrassment. Can you just imagine this outside any tourist site in a European city, let alone a principal one in a capital – and leaving aside any historical factors. Coupled with the new shower cubicle cliff face opposite, and limited pedestrian provision, visitors really must question if they’ve come to the right place entering this dingy hole, especially upon being greeted with what’s probably the largest suface car park in the city centre inside the entrance gates.
I agree the contrast with the existing antique paving and the new plaza surface works well, as the old granite logically continues the line of the street’s pavement, especially as it gracefully sweeps round to Palace Street.
As such however, I feel a more befitting, darker (perhaps bronze coloured) drainage grid ought to have been used to distinguish the two areas than the horribly cheap galvanised yoke used. It’s certainly a dog’s dinner at the City Hall end, where antique granite runs out – it’s incoherent areas like these that give otherwise decent projects a bad name.Beautiful north pavement picture Devin – thanks goodness it wasn’t touched.
@jimg wrote:
The fact that the boards are mounted on two stainless steel poles instead of on the sides of buildings doesn’t strike me as being hugely significant.
Well this is it isn’t it – all they are is a smaller version of the same. Indeed there’s many existing examples of similar size already attached to buildings about the city, just not mounted on brushed steel poles or whatever.
In fairness, many of the locations are semi-industrial or flank major road arteries (as distinct from streets), where well-designed and less intrusively scaled boards will be an improvement over existing stock, and I would also welcome the move away from building-mounted hoarding which permits advertising to permeate the streetscape in an ugly and sneaky manner. Saying that, I’d hope that these proposed developments are replacement structures for the most part and not additional blights on the city.
As mentioned, it’s very sad to note that so much of the north inner city is deemed ‘suitable’ for this type of development, and relative to the southside is probably the case – an indication as to just how much it’s been allowed degenerate over the years. The only southside street of note to be affected is Pearse Street, which lets face it has its heart on the northside anyway, and the traffic volumes headed in that direction to boot.
@jimg wrote:
’cause they’re stainless steel and so by definition (like covering areas with cheap granite, plonking down useless kiosks and plazifying open areas), sticking them into the footpath is cool and adds credibility to the scheme and shows that DCC are forward looking. :rolleyes:
Oh you mean in terms of providing function or form or complementing for historic urban fabric? I’ve no idea.
heheheh 😀
Explains matters precisely! Just look at the above image again and see how it cordons off vechicular and pedestrian spaces in a way that has time and time again been raised as an undesirable feature in urban planning. Fair enough in semi-industrial places, or those featuring heavy goods traffic, but on a commercial street in the heart of the historic city?! They’re simply being used here to ‘finish it off nicely’, with no real purpose, while irreversably damaging historic paving. The same disasterous mess can be seen outside the doors of Trinity from an array of interventions over the years, while two temporary traffic camera poles in this area do the same.
Admittedly some incisions can be interesting, for example you can still see where the gas lampposts and first electric arc lamps stood through the scars in the paving on College Green (I’ve yet to match those exactly :)), but these bollards are so short-sighted from the presepctive of taming Dame Street in 5-10 years time.
As structures though they are pretty cool and work well with the granite I think – for the moment at least the steel finish doesn’t detract from it. That lamppost base there could do with a wipe down after all that construction work…
As for imported stone, is a lot of Dublin white granite not Portugese? Henry Street I think was paved in Chinese. Ethical considerations are certainly something to bear in mind with these public projects – quarry child labour in India in particular has been a problem for a while now since the stone boom took off, whatever about the ecological impact.
I think I saw a photograph of it somewhere; otherwise there’s this pretty common sketch of it.
A monument to Victorian industry if ever there was one – a truly remarkable building:
Though perspective and scale are inevitably exaggerated in such depictions, this was still an enormous store by any standards, which is why I can never get over the apparent lack of fuss or controversy surrounding its demolition – even leaving aside any conservation arguements. For such a ginormous structure, forming half a street if not a city quarter (like the South City Markets do today) to disappear virtually overnight is extraordinary.
Perhaps by the 1970s it was much-altered, stuffed to the gills with aluminium windows and had a facade of peeling paint. I love the mindless marching procession of windows – so indicative of a series of building that have been tacked together and pasted over with a unifying facade, or modest buildings that have been replaced with a blown up version of same. A classic Victorian solution to this new type of structure 😀
The stucco always reminds me of Dearey’s (formerly Patteson’s store) in Dundalk.
The proposed elevations for the office buildings on Sth Great George’s St look very much of the Arnotts’ extension era…
“There is nothing worse than smart ass city slickers who pride themselves in taking a swipe at people from outside the Pale… City slickers often adopt a superior attitude towards those of us from outside the metropolitan 50 kilometres per hour speed limit. It is even more nauseating when the slickers meet on-line and hide behind the skirts of discussion fora to launch verbal scuds on people outside the capital. Check out the discussion board of archiseek.com Irish website relating to the Irish Rural Dwellers’ Association. The pages are graced with the repulsive scripts that belong to a colonial past, long dead but obviously, still hankered after by a few withered brains masquerading as architectural intellects.”
http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2006/11/rural-planning-irish-rural-dwellers.html
Liamy McNally is a journalist with Mid-West Radio based in Ballyhaunis.
“Ah sure it is a great country! It could only happen here. The tail wags the dog and gets away with it!”
If only.
Some fine joinery inserts. An excellent job.
Pity DCC wouldn’t demonstrate the same attention to detail with their hideous poured concrete paving.
Frank Allen made his by now biannual PR appearance on Today with Pat Kenny last week – you can hear it below at 1:44:44:
http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/Thu/rte-todaywithpatkenny-tpk.smil (12 mins)
So only Route A and this new route ‘Route F’ are on the table at this stage. It’s now a matter of consultation with the ‘stakeholders’ to see which gets the green light according to Allen – traders who shout the loudest from the sound of things.
It is the opinion of the RPA that an adequate DART connection will happen via the Interconnector at St. Stephen’s Green – I wonder could some trams travel direct to Connolly (DART) by switching lines at the Marlborough St-Abbey St junction too?Whatever about the transport implications, I have to say I find this proposed interconnector is getting more and more ludicrous by the second as regards its impact on the urban environment. With this Route F not only is the jewel of College Green affected by cables and poles, as well as O’Connell Bridge, but now we have cables passing by the entire frontage of the GPO – inches in front of the portico! Not to mention cutting across the upper street at Cathal Brugha St, and the new bridge over the Liffey, itself laden with poles and overhead cables, in addition to the same on O’Connell Bridge (also passing O’Connell Monument), and the Loop Line already further down the river. The sole redeeming factor of this new route is that it limits the impact on Westmoreland Street, O’Connell Street, Bridge and Monument by one line – even if it just transposes the other elsewhere.
This just reeks of the very worst kind of impact on the urban environment – intrusive, untidy, cluttered and fundamentally ugly. For the scheme to be suddenly extended on this scale at such a late stage, significantly impacting on newly included heritage areas, when the potential for investigating powering the system in an alternative fashion is redundant, appears almost devious, as it is disrespectful to the built environment of the city.
From day one back in the 1990s there has been a constant underlying current of ‘sure this is only Dublin, a dirty provincial west Brit city – it’s not Venice you know, huh huh huh’. Essentially nobody cares about this issue at all – rather this link is being dealt with purely as a series of lines on a map and the investigation of technicalities of the project. It seems aesthetics don’t even enter the equation. Why aren’t renderings being drawn up, and the impact on the appearance of the city being given equal, or indeed any weight at all, relative to the logistics of getting passengers from A to B? Why were no visual impact boards on display at any of the public ‘consultations’, even just to allay concerns?
This is not just about choosing a convenient route for a tram, it’s also about a hugely important matter of respecting existing environments within the ‘monumental’ city core. What purpose does College Green serve only to provide an architectural heart for the entire city – it is the very essence of this space, as with most western cities in the 21st century with similar public areas. It has little other role – and in the context of removing vehicular traffic and horrendous levels of municipal clutter from the space, including large trees, it’s nothing short of baffling that a relatively minor public transport link is allowed hold such sway in its impact on this area with absolutely NO visual impact statement in public consultations.
Yes lines passed through here before blah blah, yes O’Connell Bridge was rebuilt as is to cater for trams, yes they ran right past the GPO blah blah, but this is irrelevant. As mentioned before, if it was proposed to run telephone cables through the city to the same extent, right past the principal buildings and urban spaces in the capital, there’d be absolute uproar. But because shiny silvery trams are being catered for, suddenly nobody gives a toss. In a modern, technologically advanced capital, it is simply not acceptable for the cityscape to be strung with cables – it’s one thing if a legacy issue, but to start afresh in the 21st century is nothing short of embarrassing. It is this above all that really frustrates me about this interconnector (which otherwise I do see the
full logic of implementing).It is ironic that this link attempts to cater to a large, if minority extent, for tourists travelling from transport hubs to city centre hotels – the very people the city is being marketed at through its streetscapes and set-piece buildings that will be affected by these lines. Views of the Spire from Westmoreland Street would also be intruded on, as with the entire walk along western O’Connell Street and Bridge, and vastly worsened if Route A is chosen. Likewise regarding all the famous views of the BoI, Trinity and the House of Lords portico – all the points rasied before.
In a way it’s quite startling the difference between here and Bordeaux, where uproar was raised at the prospect of cables passing the h
