GrahamH
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As much as the Hawkins site is desirable, you can’t help but feel the Parnell site is equally so, as part of the ‘cultural quarter’ up there. It would certainly do wonders for the long-neglected square, but equally so for Hawkins – and certainly from an archetectural viewpoint the latter is far superior. It’s a toss-up really.
The site on Parnell Square is one of the most unique places in Georgian Dublin and I hope that the area won’t be ‘plazafied’ in any major way. Like no other place in the north Georgian city, you really appreciate up on that corner how the suburbs were just planted on top of a hill, over-looking the old town, and the vast expanse of roadway at this corner distinctly sweeping upwards and round to Palace Row is just wonderful – the place has barely been tamed. I’d hate to see a public plaza of clinical granite swallowing this up.
Likewise the stone doorcase set into one of two bow windows of the property is equally unique, and there’s even very few bows so publicly on display in Dublin too.
There’s just a lovely untouched feeling to this area, and sense of calm that would be terrible to lose – so whereas the buildings are protected in this scheme, one hopes the streetscape will be too.To say ‘just a single angle’ regarding the Custom House is not acknowledging the significance of it. It is the angle, the very view Gandon took into account when designing it. It’s that perfectly composed picture created, with the building at that raking angle sitting on the slight bend in the river that makes it so important, and makes the presence of the Loop Line so unfortunate, not to mention the open views lost out to the rest of the city and the sea – although admitedly the usually attractive IFSC does not look good piling up behind it.
I doubt any bridge of that height, with piers can appropriately open up the city to the east and the view of the Custom House. What limited benefits that are dervived from a new bridge I think would equalled with the refurbishment of the existing bridge, which has the added benefit of being a fine bit of Victorian engineering – yes okay the charm of being old – or rather, being of its time.
Either remove the bridge entirely or keep a restored Loop Line.Here’s the pic of the apparently unpainted house – it’s just interesting how recently it was so drastically altered:
There’s mixed signals coming out here – is the idea to physically link the Green line with the Tallaght line, or just to bring them close together – with the Green trams looping round O’Cll Monument and go back the way they came?
If the latter is the case, which I thought it was, this scheme is nothing short of ridiculous and hugely wasteful of public money if it’s simply to bring people closer to the other line. It’s about 8 mins walk from the Green to here. The trams would take at least 3 anyway.Definitely – and the best place today to at least imagine their grand impact and impeccable proportions is outside McDonalds or Burger King of all places, on O’Cll St. The Irish Times terrace gives a very good idea of what Westmoreland was like, and at this position your’re almost in line with the apex of the streets which gives you a very good idea of how the streets worked with each other. Unfortunately the ‘bungalow-like’ structure as Frank McDonald so described of the mansard roof of the ICS ‘replicas’ horriblly intrudes on the parapet of the terraces which are as straight as arrows up to this point.
It’s a pity also that there’s none of the shopfronts left on Westmoreland St, were they the same as D’Olier St?
Also I’ve wondered if Francis Johnston was the architect for this scheme or even consulting architect, as the shopfronts on D’Olier St are very similar in style and materials to the side elevation his Stamp Office to the rear of Powerscourt House just off South William St, with the same rustic granite and little ionic pilasters etc along the ground floor.I agree about Soane’s scheme generating something of a classical overload for this area, esp as a scheme of this type would look irregular facing into the street rather than onto the river a mere few yards away. What should have been done though, had Westmoreland St existed at the time of Trinity’s building (and the BoI portico) is to have created a simple pleasant facade for the college, similar to the West Front, facing onto College St, creating a secondary square to College Green, with the corner pavilion linking the two facades together, instead of the rubble stone wall of the college we now have, hidden with trees.
I think it’s funny that Trinity is so often spoken of in touristy phrases of it being so significant etc – but albeit one of my favourite buildings in the city, if ever there was a scheme done on the cheap, this is it 🙂 From inside Parliament Square to the varoius external facades, 250 years later it’s still shouting to Parliament across the road for more money 🙂It certainly would have been a spectacle, with Trinity alongside and House of Lords across the road.
Wonder if it had any of Soane’s trademark ‘handkerchief ceilings’ – don’t know of any in this country.According to the same article they want them for the soon to be expanded Westmoreland St property.
How can they be moved, surely they’re protected in situ and that’s the end of it?I went in there the other day as a farewell gesture, and sat infront of the windows, They really are very fine, and the frames themselves are lovely, with the brass mechanisms etc.
The woman at my table (lady of leisure, BT bag, you know the type) was saying that she came in there regularly (don’t you know) and that it was very busy in the last few days.One thing that was noticable was mess of the self-service layout, esp the soup counter that holds up the entire queue for all people trying to get either food or just coffee in the place. And €2.40 for a tiny glass of fruit juice?! Welcome to the real world I suppose – but it was more than made up for by the most delicious toffee cake ever; if they stay open for that it’d be worth it 🙂
Wow is right! Thanks for that Paul – so is the main facade there to the right stretching down Westmoreland St with the portico (very similar to Chamber’s Trinity works) on the ICS site?
We’d cetainly have a very different city centre had that gone ahead, and not neceassarily a better one – quite a vulgar building from what can be made out there.
Ireland’s Buckingham Palace 🙂That really is the question isn’t it – does the comparitively short walk through the city’s finest and soon to be most pedestrian friendly streets warrant a light rail link? The cost is huge, and no doubt it would have been cheaper had it been done at the same time as the Green Line. The alterations necessary to accomodate it seem neither aesthetically nor practically appropriate on the face of it – I haven’t read the Light Rail Order pertaining to this area so cannot comment on the details, but on the face of it is any link at all necessary, i.e, if a bus route was proposed to link the Green to O’Cll St at a cost of €50-€60 million it’d be laughed out of it.
Would a link via Westland Row to the IFSC offer greater value for money?One can only imagine – although I think it would be safe to assume it would have been disasterous; two comparitively huge buildings of significant bulk and mediocre architecture would have radically altered the nature of the city centre itself. We escaped lightly with the one. From the side cladding, to the scale, to the bulk, to the location, it’s wholly indequate on all fronts – although I must admit to having a strange liking for the stepped profile of the top floor :confused:
Those red buildings on D’Olier St are interesting Devin – forgot to pick up on it before when you mentioned them. I’ve often passed them wondering about the age of the brick – it appears to be Georgian on first impressions at least. And the building next door covered in paint has just enough peeling off at the top to see red brick peeking through too. Very strange.
And presumably there’s little photographic evidence of the colour of the demolished ones, they being swept away in the days of monochrome.
Great pics there – the latter being particlarly bizarre. It’s interesting how the city returns to a more human scale with the absence of O’Cll Bridge House.The Bank of Ireland proposed building a landmark HQ on the site of the ICS at one stage, not a Miesian power-block in the 70s as one may suspect, but just after 1800 🙂
It would be interesting to see what was proposed.I think it already has a new use. Not sure what though – might be able to find out though.
Have to say as a child I never encountered such a scary building in my life as the Meath hospital, when visiting a relative.
During the day was bad enough, but coming out in the dark, lit with sodium streetlights it was the place of nightmares.
Nothing, not even Victorian convents with 50s interiors and strange smells could compare.
Love it now though 🙂Dublin, esp O’Cll St was littered with these signs from the 40s on – there was an exhibition a couple of years back in the Ntl Photographic Archive based on these very features. Probably the last to go was the Texaco sign with electronic clock (which subsequently turned into a billboard) on Manfield Chambers/Clarks on O’ Cll St, which was there as recently as the late 80s, if not into the 90s. That ICS sign is totally insensitive though, regardless of what one may think of the novelty value of these signs.
It’s interesting to see what is now the Foot Locker building, next to the now-demolished Georgians in the pic. You can appreciate it as a WSC building much better here. And just look at those great chimneys on the Ballast Office…
Have to laugh at the piles of bikes clustered around Smith O’Brien 🙂 Just on him, he was the statue that stood to the south of O’Cll Bridge, facing to the north-west as was suggested by someone earlier. He was moved like everything else, because he was a traffic hazard.Well the City Christmas Tree was delivered over the weekend, just in time for the festive season that is early November.
A particularly fine specimen this year, nice shape with dense foliage, it stands proud as being the first tree to be sited in the newly completed plaza. It’s surprising how much smaller it makes the plaza look, and looks kind of frumpy compared with the clipped limes and chiseled paving, but who cares. Looks great in front of the Spire. It’s just waiting now to be strangled with the vertical strings of lights every CC tree dreads.
I think it would be nice if the planes at the upper end were lit for the last time this Christmas, its a shame they haven’t been for a few years now on account of all the works.It’s interesting that if you take out the corner glazing, the building falls flat on its face in design terms.
Here’s the new residential infill, again from a few weeks ago – the ground floor has since been clad in lots & lots of shiny granite:
Good news indeed.
There was a row of eight large motorbikes parked in the middle of the plaza the other day – whatever about the issue of them being permitted, the cheek demonstrated by their owners if the real bone of contention. Do they think their size and expense justifies their display in the heart of the city for all its citizens to admire?
No bikes at all should be allowed on the median, if they stay it will further display the debasement of the median as a feature of the street as part of this plan.
I’m concerned about the wirescape. I know it’s an old chestnut but what will be the impact on College Green?
Surely poles will be needed roughly in the area of the entrance to Trinity, where it won’t be practical to suspend from buildings? And if the posts on Stephen’s Green are anything to go by God help this Green if they are needed.
I don’t like the idea of wires crossing over views of either the BoI or Trinity, esp where the bends and curves in the roadway will necessitate a less than straight run of cabling. Fair enough Harcourt St’s has worked exceptionally well, but it’s an almost straight run of cables, with no poles, and the dark red of the Georgians negate much of their impact. What will they be like in front of/alongside white, staightlaced classical set-pieces?I don’t know the answers but it’s a big worry. Ok many other capitals in Europe put up with it, but does that mean it’s therefore acceptable in Dublin if other practical routes are possible?
Equally the views of O’Cll Bridge, the portico of the House of Lords and the BoI colonade are issues to be considered.
Does anyone have any pics of what the impact, if any, might be?And just on the plaza/road issue again, it is ironic that just after the studs have gone down that I saw someone tripping on the kerb for the first time yesterday. It was a woman walking off the raised area to cross over towards Clerys and didn’t see the step. Well she went head first right out onto the carriageway and slumped in a heap out on the road. Aside from it being very difficult not to snigger, it was clearly a very nasty fall indeed and she was lucky there was no traffic going by. She could very easily have broken an arm or wrist. (Her husband hauled her up again)
Still, it’s a difficult one to call, there are more than enough ped crossings on the street now – then again the nature of the design, the fact it’s a plaza lends itself not to indiscipline, but simply pedestrians being unaware of exactly what’s what round here.
I think (what I’m still assuming is) a McCafé has a positive contribution to make from the perspective of improving the street frontage of the premises. I don’t object to McDonalds being on O’Cll St, but rather it existing alongside three other similar establishments, right on the introductory terrace of the street.
Any decent improvement has to be welcomed – although the likelihood of the shopfront being replaced is not very high considering internal fittings have already been installed directly inside.
I think Supermacs is really the truly offensive one of the four, occupying a prime corner site, with its cheap nasty horrible, horrible white framed doors & windows, dated slanted profiles, posters pasted all over the windows, cheapo internal fixtures for the world to see though its picture windows, and not to mention the smell from the place. And the pink paint on the panels of the upper floors looks cheap and jarrs with the red brick further up.
Lovely windows upstairs though – ah the olden days, when everything was perfect 🙂I agree Devin re the corner building, there is a difficult toss-up there between retaining the lovely cornice and window dressings, esp the one facing into the street, and attempting to restore the brickwork and making the terrace work as a unit.
It’s terrible to see the cills sliced off in the way they are on the other building, and the paint slapped over the brickwork.
I think if preliminary findings suggested it would be possible to reveal the bricks on the rendered ones it should be done, as it would make a greater contribution to the whole, similar to the revealing of the ambulatory of City Hall (allbeit on a more modest scale :)) Either way, there is no way the corner building should be painted I think, just clean it and retain that sombre 20s look.It’s interesting you mention the brick colouring of D’Olier St & Westmoreland, I’ve always wondered which street won the battle to have ‘their colour’ displayed on the prestigious corner building facing onto the bridge at the apex of the two streets – was it Westmoreland’s red or the stock bricks of D’Olier?
It’s so frustrating as I’ve only ever seen black & white engravings of it 🙂
