GrahamH
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This pic really shows it at its worst – the view from Liberty Hall.
If Liberty Hall is purchased and the viewing deck reopened, Hawkins really must go.
For anyone who’s seen it recently can confirm, it is abominable from up there – really really awful:
Hello,
You say there are practically no houses left with originals on your street – even if there is just one, that alone can be all you need to find out the design.
I’ve passed so many terraces where there’s nothing but a single house left with originals, and you think thank goodness for that, but at the same time if the owners are exposed to the allure of PVC, then the last remaining record is gone!In your case, it’s more than likely single pane sashes were used – ‘one-over-ones’ as it were, were standard by 1880 or so.
A good indication of the original design is often the replacement windows themselves – if the aluminium frames are divided into two panes, then it’s likely this is what they once were in sash form, likewise if ‘two-over-two’, with a total of four panes.
You could also take a peek around the back of the houses on the street and see if there’s any originals there.
Alternatively you could find out what developer built your house, and find other developments by them in the area. They more often than not used the same windows. The developer’s name may be on the deeds of the house.
If you cannot find anything, or don’t have any info, the joiner making up the sashes will generally have a good idea – although this still isn’t as good as having accurate frames!Don’t be afraid to ask neighbours who may have originals if you can measure up their frames for copies – this is the best way of getting accurate frames made up, and most people who have originals are those who appreciate them & are willing to ‘share’ them with you.
(As an aside, there should be lots of places in Dublin at this stage to recycle the aluminum frames)
Congrats on making the big backwards step forward 🙂
Hello what?, haven’t seen you in a while 🙂
I agree that pastiche is more suited to other art forms than to architecture in that you can choose to disregard or simply ignore certain genres if you don’t like them, in a way one cannot with architecture. Whatever about one-off projects, building pastiche in urban areas can help define the nature of places, and if so-called ‘theme park’ building is not agreeable to you, and it is used in helping to shape a place you value, it can be hugely offensive, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
With regard to it simply not working as a form I’d have to disagree. The ‘mud-hut arguement’ always crops up, but that is not what is in question here – it is the strictly limited use of pastiche in areas where it may ‘generally’ be considered appropriate – or more to the point, where contemporary would not, in most cases, street terrace infill locations.
It is not about whether contemporary architecture can or cannot imaginatively adapt to a sensitive location, it is not about an apathy with contemporary design, it is not about being nostalgic. The use of pastiche as I see it, would be for the purpose of re-inforcing the character of specific locations (mostly streetscape in-fill) rather than just accepting via convention that an out of place contemporary design must be built.I acknowledge that this is the key point – can you or can you not accept comtemporary architecture amongst older architecture, i.e do you think that modern design is ‘out of place’?
In most cases I totally agree with using contemporary architecture alongside older buildings; the contrast generated can be spectacular and very satisfying, and not just in the case of classical masterpieces etc.
But I think that the ‘pastiche issue’ mostly arises with streetscapes – if an overwhelming majority of an area is of a certain nature, I think this character should be reinforced – in most cases – every situation is different.It really boils down to whether you think you are being patronised by replica buildings. I agree that large scale statements that are false are nothing but wallpaper and are totally unambitious. I can think of the perfect example in Dundalk, where it is still proposed to rebuild from scratch a large 18th/early 19th century Market House on the central square in the town that was demolished in about 1967. If rebuilt, it would involve demolishing the Arts Centre there, for people who know it, and the creation of a proper square to the front, no doubt with heritage lamposts and hanging baskets to match, while the building, complete with limestone arcades to the ground floor and brickwork above (similar to Dublin Castle) would straddle the whole west side of the square.
This is actually a serious proposal – it’s not gaining much momentum though, but not on the architectural merits, but on cost grounds.
This is a blatent example of what gives pastiche a bad name, and generates the apathy with contemporary design argument.Ironically, I cannot see Elvery’s surviving out there on the prairie – perhaps they will, but thus far Atlantic & PC World don’t appear to be doing overly well. Maybe they just need to get established – Harvey Norman is doing a bomb – why is beyond me at those prices…
Places like Franks are moving out not just because of rents, but also for easier access.
That company in particular spent a fortune only fairly recently on a carpet showroom to the rear of their store in the heart of the Georgian town, yet have moved out to the ‘by-pass’ anyway. And it’s not as if it’s to make it easier to lug stuff home – most carpets & furniture sold are delivered anyway! It’s just so people can sail up in their cars. The fact they’re now only a couple of minutes from smug nouveaux riche Blackrock is no coincidence either 🙂Diaspora – Elvery Sports are as I speak moving into the Coes Road Park beside Harvey Norman…
Not that I don’t agree – I despise these places at the best of times, but mainly when non-bulky traditionally urban-centred establishments move out to these places.
These parks have a role to play though; the range and value and convenience offered by bulk stores, whether they be selling tiles, carpets or kitchens, are increasingly needed.I note with interest that ‘Frank’s Furniture’ (that sells flooring) in Dundalk in such a similar roadside scheme, are now advertising on telly to Dubliners – “Only 50 minutes from Dublin!”
Even walking down Henry St with a telly or Hi-Fi is a flippin nightmare!
But to get Dublin people to use public transport & get the stuff delivered is the primary aim – and it’s often handier than trying to shove half a kitchen into the back of a Micra anyway.Ah sorry, inspectors rec – pretty obvious graham! 😮
Think it’s something that should have been followed through on thoughAt the very least there should be free delivery within their catchment areas, 30 miles or so. Even Argos offers that in the capital.
By definition Ikea is a car-dependant ‘experience’, so if we could alter that here by allowing people to get there via public transport & have the stuff delivered then that would be fantastic. We could ‘lead the way’ in this respect.
Ikea are going to make a fortune out of us – we should set the highest standards of sustainablity with this store (including packaging, of which this store generates vast quantities)
I don’t blame people for shopping here, esp in this country with the price of housing. There’s little money left to furnish new homes.There’s a press conference at 4 o’clock in Govt Bldgs, so more info should emerge this evening.
“On completion of the scheme 145 semi-mature trees will have been planted – more than double the original number”
That argument is akin to the health service logic of throwing more cash in – ‘it has to be better’
How the trees are used is what counts. (Promise not to mention trees again for at least 2 days :))Otherwise the Plaza is fantastic, and the use of black asphalt on the roadways I think works particularly well for O’Cll St. Although conventional, I think it is more appropriate than other paler colours that may have been considered, which would have led to a bland beigey overload on what is a very sombre, almost washed out street in places.
In contrast, I think a sandy shade would look particularly good on D’Olier St, matching the colours of the WSC shopfronts and general tones of the upper floors.Did they?
12.12: “I do however have some reservations about the bulk of the proposed tower and in particular of its proportions. As stated earlier it has a width of 30m and length of 50m and height of 67.5m -71m. As such even when viewed from the narrow side, it does not have the ¼ width/height ratio which makes a tall building elegant”
Condition:
“The footprint of the proposed tower block shall be reduced by reduction of its width and length by 10m each”Reason: “in the interest of visual amenity”
I’d go along with this, proportionally, the building is too bulky to adequately distinguish itself from the rest of the scheme – a problem one can see in many similar schemes on the outskirts of Birmingham etc.
I find a tall building necessary for a scheme such as this (not that the one proposed is anything fantastic), but as the report points out:“The employment zone buildings by necessity are bulky structures, with similar heights (13-17.5m), and are usually surrounded by large expanses of car parks. As a result they usually create rather monotonous and sometimes windswept urban-scapes, inhospitable as pedestrian environments. In this case location of bulk of the car parking underground, provision of pedestrian links and hard and soft landscaped open spaces, help improve the general layout, and the quality of the space”
“The tower building with a height of 67.5-71m and located within a relatively large open space and as a vista at the end of pedestrian routes would in my view provide a much needed relief from the monotony referred to above”
Every time I see the title I just think of that song…
If someone’s witty enough to compose a send-up, the words are here (think the Diana version offers greater potential for humour):
http://www.eltonography.com/songs/candle_in_the_wind_1997.htmlThe winner recieves a shiny new propeller pencil 🙂
(also please excuse that rubbish written in my last post – no not the content, just the 1st line)
Nope – had a scour through the ‘archive’, not a thing. Hardly surprising, the only place it appears is in ‘Ireland – The Land of Heart’s Desire’ touristy type publications! (which incidently thinks the Custom House is 19th century and describes Liberty Hall as a skyscaper :))
Should be able to get some pics in a few days.It part of the heritage of the city’s heritage at this stage!
But unlike other more quirky or streamlined ‘monsters’ from the 60s, Hawkins is just horrendous in every respect, esp the steel windows, which are an interesting giveaway as to the age of the building – vestiges of 1950s construction.Whatever about the architecture, it cannot be nice to work in the place – apparently many of the windows won’t budge at this stage, true to form – do people ever maintain steel windows…?
Often laughed at the Dept of Health being sited in the most unhealthy looking building in the state – and when you see it on the News in grim dusky light it’s just embarrassing (and very scary looking)
The Minister’s office is funny too – a bog standard room (with manky steel windows), but tarted up with happy happy brightly coloured sofas and other suburban nick nacks to keep the depression at bay 🙂By far the worst view of the building is looking south down the tunnel of Marlborough St. With the rest of the city skyline out of sight it just dominates – it turns the city into Kruschev’s Moscow 🙁
Must take that pic before it disappears…LOL 😀
It think the nature of the issue in this country is perfectly summed up by the fact that the Taoiseach’s very own constituency office is fitted out with PVC. The fact that it’s a charming 100 year-old Edwardian suburban house makes it all the more pertinent.
Heh heh – I wouldn’t enter that development if you paid me. Considering Zoe’s recent change of heart, the least they can do is install a Prozac dispenser at every front door.
Irish summer sun makes everything look pretty Frank – everything…:)Modular Man, I think the opposite is the case regarding the design/use aspect of this dev. Rather than the design dictating the interiors, it was in fact much easier to to cloak the crappy accomodation in Georgiana than more contemporary designs.
It is the interiors that govern the external appearance.Must check out the Thing Mote Stephen – not sure I want to though.
Or is it just something you dreamed last night?!
If the Abbey decision falls in favour of Hawkins, and Liberty Hall is sold, we could see plans emerge for the removal/alteration for two of the city’s most notorious buildings in the same year.
So, when are the ESB moving out to Leopardstown? 🙂
4/1/2005
An Ormond splurge from one of many travel site links:
“The Ormond Quay hotel is one of the city’s oldest and best known hotels. Purpose built in 1900, The Ormond Quay Hotel is steeped in history boasting a proud tradition with some of Dublin’s most famous characters, most notably, James Joyce, who wrote his Sirens chapter of Ulysses whilst resident in the hotel.
The Ormond Quay Hotel lets you discover the past and experience the present. As one of Dublin’s oldest hotels we have evolved with our fair city, remaining true to our historical links while adding to that all the modern comforts and conveniences of the 21st century”
Funny that…
A centrepiece building is not needed here at all – the whole length of the quay must be taken into account.
