GrahamH
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GrahamH
ParticipantThat is a good point – it’s more than likely the interiors, not least the once-retail spaces on the ground floors, are probably non-existant now as a result of the blocking up & ‘conversion’ job.
I don’t know – if the interiors are in tatters, a replacement superstructure still wouldn’t detract from the facade’s contribution to streetscape which is the primary concern. Of course the buildings’ integrity is what’s at stake in such a case – but if the interiors are thoroughly unremarkable or are in bits, while the buildings could be put to a productive new use with a new structure to the rear then perhaps…it’s always tricky to know where to draw the line. If part of the original structure could be incorporated into the new section to offer a connection and a sense of coherence with the external facades, then I suppose it would become more acceptable. Exactly how you’d do that now…I’d hate to see these buildings demolished, I pass them every couple of days and they really help define this part of Pearse St – not just by forming the street, but their architecture give the place a unique identity. The terrace as a whole is quite unusual, there’s nothing else to compare it to in the city centre; it’s almost like a Victorian version of a Wide Streets Commission development, more intimate in scale being only 3 storeys and of red brick, but featuring regular window placement and an unusually level parapet. It’d kind of remind you of the doomed York St terrace for some reason…
It also works in tandem with the three storey brown terrace across the road, and the other unusual William IVish houses next to the Trinity Capital.
To chop em off at the end diminishes the terrace’s impact, and undermines the established character of the street.
Yes there’s some black spots on this stretch of the street already, but no major ones, and none on this side.
What does the terrace no favours is that it’s manky dirty and north facing, giving the buildings an intimidating appearance. That brickwork could glow red if cleaned.Does anyone know what these shop-like units are under the the bridge next door?

They’re one of those features you just always wonder about but never get round to finding out about 🙂
Were they an 1890s version of these regenerating coffee kiosks, popped in by the Loop Line builders, maybe in an effort to earn some cash from the acres of otherwise untouchable land they created? The railings appear to date from around then.GrahamH
ParticipantAnd front onto the river?
If using the Hawkins site, it goes without saying that An Post’s (do they still occupy it?) College House be demolished – to the extent that there would be little point in using this location unless that happened. It is this that would make the site workable and make the building impressive – a striking piece of architecture sited between D’Olier Chambers and Pearse St Station, also surrounded by Trinity’s accomodation block, the Lord’s portico, and the lovely stock of College St – what a setting, in the heart of the city.
@phil wrote:
Does anyone know what the interior condition of [the Carlton] building is like? Has it been gutted?
I’ve wondered this too – did it/does it have a decent interior? When was it closed does anyone know, and why? (or is that kinda obvious…)
It says on the link there that it was built in 1932, but in RTÉ’s ‘100 Years’ book it is claimed the cinema opened on the 16th of April 1938 and there’s an accompanying picture of the cinema based in the 3 bay Georgian townhouse it first opened in. I’ve a feeling it opened in it in 1932, but the new building in 1938 and the latter’s what the book refers to – with the wrong picture…GrahamH
ParticipantHave to laugh at the contractors working on the Boardwalk – they’ve just covered the most recently erected handrail in sheets of plastic and parcel tape to protect it from The Attack of airborne detritus 🙂
GrahamH
ParticipantWould the State have had to stump up millions though for what would have been ‘prime dvelopment land’?
Not that it shouldn’t have been protected in the first place, either via zoning or otherwise.The estates encircling Celbridge are really awful, rows upon rows of semi-ds, all laid out along those ubiquitous mini dual-carriageways with the little roundabouts for accessing the next row of housing – as boring as I don’t know what, it really has to be seen to be believed, whatever about the many other implications of such development.
And it’s a shame because Celbridge is such a lovely historic town at its centre – it’s only when you move further out that it gradually gets worse.GrahamH
ParticipantHmmm – I wonder who’s to believe 😉
Was the Hawkins deal done and dusted before the Abbey relocation even arose but was just announced recently, or is it just a recent development full stop?I’m still not sure the Carlton site is suitable for the Abbey – certainly it would be great from the image perspective; to have the national theatre on the main thoroughfare, but the Carlton is still only a lacklustre, mid-terrace location. If it was to be the focal point of the street like the GPO then fair enough, but it’s not.
I just find it somewhat unambitious, from use, prominence and architectural perspectives.
Also presumably some sort of plaza area outside would also be created, however minor, further detracting from the street’s layout.
A self-contained city centre site I’d still find the most suitable for the Abbey, Hawkins being almost perfect I think…GrahamH
ParticipantOoh I’d give my right arm to climb up there (probably do so in the process anyway). Never actually seen the Folly up close 🙁
As the symbol not only for Castletown, and the IGS, but for the conservation movement as a whole in Ireland, it deserves better treatment than this, let alone on its own merits.
It’s such a hauntingly beautiful structure it’s a pity more people don’t get to see it, but it’s going to be some years before it’s finally made a bit more accessible with the estate walks etc that I believe are being planned.Anyone know anything about this development – from last week’s IT Property:
476 homes for site near Wonderful Barn
Fiona TyrrellA plan to build over 450 houses in the vicinity of one of Ireland’s more unusual historical landmarks has been lodged with Kildare County Council.
Developer David Daly’s Albany Homes is seeking to build 476 houses on lands at Barnhall in Leixlip in the grounds of the Wonderful Barn, a stone grain store, dating from 1743 and Barnhall House dating from the 17th century.
The wonderful barn is a folly built by Lady Laura Catherine Connolly as a poverty relief project during the Famine. Based on the design of an Indian rice store, the seven-storey structure had a practical use as a grain store.
Visible from the M4 motorway, the grain store is one of only two in the country, according to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage. It is located on a 90-acre site which was rezoned for housing in March 2002 by Kildare County Council. Under a local area action plan, the council decided that 48 acres of the site would be dedicated as parkland and 42 acres would be developed as low to medium-density housing.
A landscaping plan for the site includes provision of a bank of trees to screen the new housing from the historical buildings. Plans for restoring a walled garden have also been made. The transfer of the Barn complex – including Barnhall House, the Wonderful Barn, two dovecotes and walled garden and the remaining parkland – is being negotiated by the council.
Albany Homes, which purchased the land from a consortium of landowners in 2004, is seeking permission to build 122 four-bed houses, 12 three-bed houses, 136 two-bed houses, a crèche and two shops on the site. All proposed residential units are two-storeys in height.
The council’s area action plan for the site was described as “disastrous” by the Hon Desmond Guinness, former president of the Irish Georgian Society. Lands surrounding the barn, he said, “should be kept free of housing development” to protect its setting.
© The Irish Times
GrahamH
ParticipantWonder if the open ones are doing any decent trade – I passed them today and the man in the newsagent one looked bored senseless; then again staff tend to in most stores so maybe that’s not the best indicator…
Agreed about the boardwalk kiosks, they do work well – just being flippant earlier – however the wood cladding is in an very poor state on both of them and requires immediate attention – they look so tatty.
GrahamH
Participantheheh
Nah, fridges is still the more accurate term, even if less humerous 🙂Here’s hoping their offspring won’t crop up on O’Connell Bridge as part of plans for there; their breeding like rabbits along the boardwalks is quite enough thank you very much, albethey the more fashion-conscious wood-clad generation 🙂
GrahamH
ParticipantHere’s the Irish Times article about the pavilion from last week, sums it up very well – you probably got it via e-mail anyway…
Dail’s simple security box conceals complex structure
The new security pavilion outside the Dáil has a calm presence, deftness of touch and displays confidence, writes Emma Cullinan.
The simplest objects can mask the complexities in their making.
This is the case with a building which is so transparent that passers’ by may not even notice it at first, despite its prominent position.
The new security pavilion outside the Dáil in Kildare Street, Dublin 2, is a glass box tucked in behind the traditional railings, whose roof line barely peeks above the iron uprights.
The complexities came in both the design and the bureaucracy involved.
“It took a lot of persuasion and consultation to get this building here,” says monitoring architect Angela Rolfe, “because a fine 18th century building demands an excellent contemporary building in its grounds to enhance the space rather than detract from it.”
It certainly takes some structure to stand in front of the Georgian mansion that is Leinster House, designed by Richard Cassels in 1745, and the wings that house the library and museum, by Thomas Newenham Deane and his son, Thomas Manly Deane, which were added in 1890.
The new “Welcoming Pavilion” could be considered as phase two for architects Bucholz McEvoy, which created the two glass pavilions for the Department of the Taoiseach at the other side of this building complex on Merrion Row a few years ago.
In her search for a dynamic young practice to design this, Angela Rolfe was told about Bucholz McEvoy who were then working on Fingal County Hall (with BDP), a building that gave Irish county council office design a shake up. Now many local authorities are commissioning good architects to create their HQs.
While those manning the entrances to visitor attractions and car-parks the world over are often confined to timber or plastic boxes, it was always the intention of the OPW to have a splendid pavilion for their security staff to sit in.
“We absolutely set out to have a beautiful structure,” says Rolfe. And they’ve achieved that.
Glass buildings are the rage for many good reasons, not least their ability to sit lightly beside older buildings.
Here the structure achieves the gentler security presence the OPW wanted, rather than assaulting visitors with a fortress-style box.
As you approach you feel you are being watched, actually, you know you are being watched because you can see the security staff looking at you.
The new pavilion is designed to control the movement of people. In the past visitors would stroll in through the vehicle entrance and wait to be spotted by a security guard.
Now cars have their entrance; TDs and other staff have a quick walk-through in which they just have to give the nod to security staff; while the general public enter via a ramp for proper processing.
This includes parties of school children who can be kept in the “holding bay” at one end of the building, with handy timber benches for them to slouch and slide on.
But the glass also allows visitors and passers by to see into the courtyard beyond, which ties the trio of history, politics and learning together: the National Museum, Leinster House and the National Library.
No clumsy columns obscure the view through, instead the building is supported by slender steel legs and in the roof great, no-nonsense glulam Siberian x-beams take care of the lateral forces (at the tops of the columns steel brackets rotate slightly to allow for lateral movement).
The architects worked with engineer Niccolo Baldicini, who specialises in aircraft engineering.
The aviation industry can’t have tolerances of 20mm here or there – as is possible in many buildings – such stresses might cause wings to fall off.
The colour of the beams was chosen to complement the shade of the stone on the museum (an excellent example of Irish decorative stonework), which can be seen through the roof.
There are more deft details. At the point where the larch beams cross, the strips of timber interlink, like fingers in a clasped hand, in such a way as to negate the need for bolts which would “interrupt the flow”.
The various elements in this building connect well: the structure was made by an Italian firm, Polar, and shipped to Ireland.
“They are good at glass, steel and timber,” says Karen McEvoy. “While many people may specialise in each of these materials, this company is good at combining all three and takes great care with the junctions between them.”
While some of these junctions slide discreetly together others are more extrovert in their expression with fat Frankenstein-like bolts securing slabs of metal. It makes for a good mix of sleek and chunky throughout.
With few places to hide in such a transparent building, the finishes and joins are important, as is the concealment of support mechanisms and everyday equipment.
The wiring for the building runs up behind the steel columns and sits on top of the larch beams, while other electrical equipment and anything that needs storing is held in the long countertop that runs along the centre of the building.
Made by Ross Furniture, this comprises upright oak slats topped with a busy green Connemara marble that shows how natural materials can get away with flourishes that synthetics just can’t carry off: this would look gaudy in plastic.
Green Irish marble seemed such an appropriate material with which to adorn the entrance to Ireland’s parliament building, says Merritt Bucholz (although Italians actually quarry and cut the stone).
It also works, along with the salvaged teak floor, as a counter to the sleekness of the rest of the structure.
“With such engineered details we wanted to add in materials that have the ability to speak,” says Bucholz.
One jarring element is the X-ray portal, which is more slender than most, but until all companies follow the likes of Apple in turning everyday objects into designer items, we will be lumbered with the devices on offer.
The interruption of nature, both outside and inside the pavilion, does contrast beautifully with the highly engineered simplicity of the box.
At one point the building draws inwards to accommodate a tree and beneath one of the benches a glass wall, filled with wood chips, bends in to make way for a tree root which couldn’t be cut.
Plane trees that were planted just over 100 years ago, in an arc, dictated the shape of this building, as did the outer railings and entrance road.
So the building performs acrobatics around the set points to create a trapezoid through tree trapeze.
Yet the building doesn’t look as if it has struggled to gain its shape.
It has a calm presence, deftness of touch and displays confidence.
Everything’s here for a reason and the various elements have been balanced beautifully.
© The Irish Times
GrahamH
Participant‘The Fridges’ – so the title’s official then 😀
O’Connor Crowe Architects don’t appear to have a site which is strange…are they imaginary too? 🙂
On the issue of the older western bridges, their paving is often in appalling condition, esp at the corners with the quays. Certainly this needs to be improved for pedestrians – bit cheaper than any bridge too.The chq bridge is exciting – it’s great the way bridges take so little time to go up after planning; this one is taking shape quite fast.
Is there a need for that ped bridge at Hawkins/Marlborough Sts, esp so close to O’Cll Bridge? More clutter, not least when combined with the new Boardwalk. Even if Marl St is improved as per the IAP, there’s still not going to be the attractions to make people go there. Perhaps in light of the Hawkins redevelopment though…Good news about the DDDA huts.
GrahamH
ParticipantYes – any decent pics anywhere?
This is a highly highly sensitive location – it is Dublin, the image of the city presented to the rest of the world, whatever about our own enjoyment of the location. It is more Dublin than Merrion Square or the Custom House or the Spike will ever be.
That classic river view with O’Donovan Rossa & Fr Matthew bridges and matching balustrading along the quays ought not be touched with a bargepole.
Whereas it is generally accepted now that striking modern architecture works well next to older structures or locations, this should not be an excuse to build anywhere, supposedly because we’re so ‘enlightened’ now.Leave the location alone. I know it’s a typical reactionary response but really, what is wrong with the existing bridges? It seems to be something of a CC hobby now to litter the riverscape with ‘striking’ new structures…
GrahamH
ParticipantWow – that’s interesting to see the GoR in plan view. Wonder if such a symbol would be ‘acceptable’ if built today…
The timescale for the Square works is impressive – I think it’s the eastern side though rather than the west that needs the fastest attention – the public domain there is really awful, so windswept and barren. The Georgian fakes are also depressing…
The stepped terrace of houses on the western side always looks great, despite their delapidated condition. Some decent landscaping here is going to make such a difference, but esp on the eastern side.
GrahamH
ParticipantYes – there were a great many. Indeed they reflect something of a different midset – a time when things were often just done by convention, such as surrounding monuments with railings and lampstandards and even putting bollards around just lampposts such as infront of O’Cll Monument or on St. Stephen’s Green and countless other places.
Kind of pointless in a way, although some probably did have defensive purposes.The trees in the pic probably are Christmas trees – interesting that there appears never to have been a Christmas tree on O’Cll St itself until 1966. Here’s an extract from the 2004 CC press release (they publish the same one every year, just juggle the words round a bit :)):
“Traditionally located opposite the GPO, a Christmas tree was erected for the first time on O’Connell Street in 1966. The tree this year was supplied by Coillte Teoranta,. It is a 60ft Norway Spruce, grown in Athy Co. Kildare and is the biggest Christmas tree ever erected in Ireland. It weighs 3 tonnes and is approximately 56 years old. In previous years trees were 25-30 feet. This year there are over 1,200 white lights decorating the tree.”
The kerbstones on the bridge median are extraordinarily large, easily the longest in the city: they must be original as they’d have been prohibitively expensive if put down in the 70s or so. The lanterns along here have always looked decidedly temporary on that tarmac since going back in – they don’t sit on it properly and even look a bit lopsided at times. The restoration in 2000/2001 was magnificent, with the ones on the balustrades done a bit earlier in 1999. As mentioned before, the median ones were pruned down to 3 arms and the wall ones chopped down to single lanterns in April of 1919 due to safety concerns, whatever they were. The new white bulbs used (read they’re 150 watt) are very effective. Pity they were dumped down on such a rubbish surface.
Have any more sites been acquired for the Carlton scheme since the court case began or was the site already fully assembled at that point?
GrahamH
ParticipantWhere’s that judgement!
Nothing can happen til then…Here’s a spooky pic of the bridge from around the late 40s – what are those yokes? :confused:

GrahamH
ParticipantAgreed – at this stage it is in a way as much a commemoration of those who died as it is of the 1966 commemoration itself.
There’s a sense of history in there nearly moreso from 1966.
It is of it’s time and it’s something of a novelty to have a piece of 60s landscaping and architecture in such immaculate condition. Short of the whole square being redeveloped I think it should be left alone.GrahamH
ParticipantYes the setback is nothing short of a disgrace. Look at it here from Westmoreland St, clad in all-singing red brick. Whatever about its architectural qualities, the way in which it merges in the eye with the Irish Permanent on the corner (indeed actually overrides it), esp when you move a few feet closer from where this pic was taken, it completely changes the relationship between the quay and O’ Connell St.
The setback looms over the quay in such a way as to make it appear like another storey along the quay at facade level.
How was this allowed? I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to describe this building overall as monsterously overscaled.
GrahamH
ParticipantThere’s a huge ‘dam’ just gone down on Eden Quay recently, wider than any of the openings in the walls on the older Boardwalk.
Here’s the lovely nerw wood going down – the craftmanship in laying the timbers is superb – from the cutting to the joining to the bolting down, very impressive.
Unfortunately it looks like there’s going to be a rather nasty problem with this new stretch of Boardwalk – over the past few days most of the brand new, unfinished handrail has been covered, and I mean covered in seagull droppings 😮
Never seen anything like it – whether it was just a one off or not I don’t know (not exactly an expert on the bowel movements of sea birds) but if this this is going to be the state of affairs along here on a permanent basis I’d gladly stick to Eden Quay, warts and all (yes it’s that bad :))
I pity the the person who has to sand it down for finishing…GrahamH
ParticipantI thought from the title of the thread that parking was planned for the square 🙂
Good to finally see things happening up there. Where will the plans be on view – the CC Offices?So has Coláiste Mhuire site has been officially shelved then or is the article induging in a bit of journalistic license?
GrahamH
ParticipantAh out comes the copper like clockwork – it’s become the new polished granite 🙂
The corner glazing is interesting, but that flat pararpet is as boring as I don’t know what, and is reminiscent of the worst 1990s apartment schemes in Dublin.GrahamH
ParticipantReally – works well well all the same 🙂
Seems they consumed most of the road here – more swanky glass crops up further down too behind a couple of Victorians.- AuthorPosts
