DubinCork
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@Pug wrote:
1. I completely agree with the first part so the only way to get rid of Martin is by giving a gesture to Fianna Fail i.e.dont vote for them.
2. We dont take it for granted at all. I personally think its a basic right and you cannot compare what Cork should be to Dublins miserably failed transport. The amount of money wasted is only phenomenal. Let the politicians make the policy so they feel they are doing something, then send in a private company on a fixed price contract with bonus scheme to finish early, penalties if they finish late and see what happens. Cork is an excellent sized city that could have transport sorted out very easily. If we “whinge” its because the only way it seems to get a redult is to complain loudly enough.
Cork has been failed on
1. Airport Debt promise – fail, a project cost over run by none other than the DAA themselves, while on the same day SIX HUNDRED MILLION was to buy out a toll bridge on a acontract signed by Pee Flynn and George Redmond, those bastions of good planning
2. Kent Station redevelopment – fail/farce with no bus/rail integration
3. Kinsale roundabout 9 years late and not on time and under budget as the politicos seem to think
4. Bandon flyover funding pulled – fail
5. Sarsfield flyover funding pulled – fail
6. Fermoy bypass – white elephant
7. Docklands – fail
8. Nightlink – non existent
9. Midleton railway – signed months late, reannounced several times and now will be ANOTHER year lateAnd you wonder why we give out?
Agreed – very good points.
You can easily get in and out of the city off-peak to East/West Cork Kerry whilst you would be stuck in traffic trying to get to Brittas etc. with thousands trying to do the same thing on a sunny Sunday.
Arts funding for Cork ?
See how much West Kerry gets.De-centralisation for the second city ? Nil.
Canvassers fro McGrath F.F. called to me last week and admitted that they are getting a roasting at the doorsteps on the airport debt issue but believe it will be sorted out before the election.
Only last weekend I cycled on an old railway line from Blackrock to Monkstown which probably went on to Crosshaven ?
What an asset for future light Rail / Luas type link picking up Blackrock.Mahon,Rochedtown/Douglas/Carrigaline.If this was Dublin it would be up and running by now given that there probably is a population to support it going through the city to U.C.C/CUH/C.I.T.Ballincollig ?
Strong representation required to the next government by T.D.’s etc
Cork Transport should be re-titled “Figure it out yourself”
@mollox wrote:
How perceptive of you, Angry Rebel. My letter in the Indo (and a variant also published in de paper) was indeed intended to raise the hackles of the citizens of Whingeing Langerland aka Cork. It was inspired by Roy Keane’s latest untimely moan/rant on the eve of a critical qualifier for the national team. The airport terminal was merely a convenient target, lift almost any stone and you’ll find a cork moaner feeling hard done by. Why should the rest of the country have to put up with this schizophrenic superiority/inferiority complex? Incidentally, the Indo edited out the best part of my letter , which originally closed with the following sentiment: “Whingeing langers, the lot of them!â€. Regards, Peter
Your ignorance is profound and can hopefully be due to a juvenile rant based on either ignorance,alcohol or both.
As I have moved here from Dublin 6 years ago which by the way has all the hassles of a big capital city with NONE of the conveniences whilst if the government never ever again invests in the city and county of Cork (we do pay a substantial ammount of tax to the nation ) .The government has messed up transport on a grand scale with the DAA leading the charge for stupidity with Martin Cullen a daily farce.
Cork city has a quality of life that most Dubliners could only dream of and yes they do take it for granted down here.
@Pug wrote:
Theres a terrible low benchmark set in Ireland when it comes to these road projects, I utterly disagree with saying things like its ok that the roads should be delayed until the interurbans are done. If thats the case then the interurbans should have been started and completed by now.
I dont believe a word of it when politicians announce projects as coming in ahead of schedule and under budget Where was the detailed schedule published? where was the detailed budget for taxpayers money? what happens to the money thats saved when its under budget?
Martin Cullen is sitting on the Railway order because FF have NOTHING else to promise Cork except a delayed Midleton railway that they have announced over and over. They are under pressure now with the airport fiasco
They seem to have “dug a hole” for themselves in Cork and anecdotally everyone I speak to sems to be planning on voting Green in Cork ?
Get out the cheque book Bertie or at least get it off Brian Cowan – do they realise that its our money in the first place ?
Fianna Fail have shot themselves in the foot in Cork.
@Pug wrote:
Theres a terrible low benchmark set in Ireland when it comes to these road projects, I utterly disagree with saying things like its ok that the roads should be delayed until the interurbans are done. If thats the case then the interurbans should have been started and completed by now.
I dont believe a word of it when politicians announce projects as coming in ahead of schedule and under budget Where was the detailed schedule published? where was the detailed budget for taxpayers money? what happens to the money thats saved when its under budget?
Martin Cullen is sitting on the Railway order because FF have NOTHING else to promise Cork except a delayed Midleton railway that they have announced over and over. They are under pressure now with the airport fiasco
They seem to have “dug a hole” for themselves in Cork and anecdotally everyone I speak to sems to be planning on voting Green in Cork ?
Get out the cheque book Bertie or at least get it off Brian Cowan – do they realise that its our money in the first place ?
Fianna fAil have shot themselves in the foot in Cork.
@PVC King wrote:
If Bertie didn’t go off on his Abbotstown disaster this Stadium could have been built by now. €100m plus wouldn’t have been wasted on a now abandoned flight of fancy.
I am having problems understanding how there isn’t space for a rotation given that a rugby pitch is 100m long and 50m wide. I know the North terrace is tight but surely a 50m gain would address the deficet?
I thought that sports stadia / pitches etc had to be aligned on an east – west axis ?
@Pug wrote:
plese dont vote for him simply to get him out of cork
your points have already proved he will stand for any side (AGAINST urban sprawl but also AGAINST high rise – maybe he means us to become “the Boat People of the Lee” where we will all reside in floating barges up and down union quay) so theres no point in voting for him if you dont wish to
the man himself came to my door the other evening, said his name, asked me how are things going and said he’d be grateful if I would consider him for a vote. Forgot to tell me he was a councillor and what he stood for, didnt mention Fine Gael and why I should vote for him.
I’m not going to anyway so it dont matter
He also called to my door about 2 months ago looking for a vote in the next election.I told him I thought his involvement with the “Comminities for sustainable development” would make that impossible for me as I thought that an amateur organisation of cranks ( Not Cork City Council B.T.W. ) should have any say in planning policy…….he stared blankly at me for 5 seconds……….and asked me would I consider voting for him !
He is a dolt of the highest order up there with Martin Cullen & Dick Roche.
I can see the Election Posters now “Jerry Buttimer –
No Urban Sprawl -No High Rise
Down with this sort of thing.[/align]
@Pug wrote:
After 5 months it must be the joined up writing
How many broken promises is that? kent station, airport, kinsale road (9 years late), bandon roundabout, sarsfield roundabout and the 100 times announced Cork Midleton railway. Bye bye 2008, hello 2010.
At the opening of the new docklands station in Dublin this week Bertie looked very uncomfortable sitting next to our Governmental Dolt as Mr.Cullen tried to take credit for this latest infrastructural triumph.
I am amazed that the people of Cork are not up in arms over his latest trick ?
@browser wrote:
Ah but they are lovely and white. Martin picked them himself so they’ll be top notch!
They are actually going a mossy shade of green.
What a farce in Cork.
Really.:mad:
@Pug wrote:
well, if that hasnt helped you decide not to vote for FF nothing will. Thats an absolute joke.
Thats the clincher for me not to vore for F.F. again for a long time.:mad:
@Pug wrote:
how about just getting on with it and just doing SOMETHING constructive (pardon the pun), calling on the government to do this and that and writing to the likes of bus eireann to say “we urge you to make the service better” will do nothing, just GET ON WITH IT.
– stop making endless plans
– get Docklands going with light rail/tram to go through it, carriages to be 2 storey like australia, german trains
– sarsfield and bandon flyover
– kent station FULL change around, fully integrated with moved bus station, just make the damn place into a 21st century building
– increase of bus fleet to have smaller more frequent buses in the inner city and suburbs
– at least tripling of buses to carrigaline and crosshaven, at least two an hour being express to cork not winding down a country road to douglas
– night links to ballincollig, mayfield, glanmire,douglas/carrigaline
– car pooling initiatives with in conjunction with the park and ride
– a bus service that goes from frankfield to the LINK road i.e. not driving into douglas traffic at peak hour in the mornings
– cork airport debt to be paid off as promised, plenty of funds for the NDP so obviously theres enough left for Seamus Brennans promise to be upheld (and a few airbridges to be thrown in out of the change)
– multi purpose 40,000 seater stadium at the docklands where the light rail / tram will let you off at the station next to it, U2 to be the first to play but only in support of John Spillaneits election time, theres a change in the air, just do it
Good points – just do it especially when you see the docklands is dragging on for 6 years.
Finish Macroom by-pass & start north ring road.
Cork is slipping further and further behind other centres and about 10 – 15 years behind Dublin.
Theres always excuces her for not doing things.
@rebel_city wrote:
I’ve just heard that O’Callaghans have bought the Bodega. It’s meant to be closing next weekend!A great venue for Cork gone! Although who knows what’s in store for the site! Maybe he’s going to try and buy up that side of the Coal Quay for development seeing as the other side is going to be retail!
Pity he did’nt buy the Coal Quay Bar instead ! Pub business is dying with all the pub sales but the Bodega is a gem.
I’d say there woul be at least 8,000 sq.ft + first floor for retail there.Instore and H&M were being mentioned in the paper this morning.Habitat would be great but they would need about 20,000 sq.ft.and are possibly going into the O.C.P. scheme on Half Moon St which will have 4 large 20,000,sq.ft units ?That giant furniture warehouse next door must be next to go as it is huge and links to North Main St.?
Beth Gali won the competition to re-design Cornmarket st.
@jungle wrote:
It’s not as though Dublin is the only place you can connect when flying into Cork. Heathrow is obviously a possibility and you could always fly Cork-Amsterdam direct and hire a car. It would probably turn out faster than hanging round airports waiting for connections.
The one thing that is annoying with the connection in Dublin is that now that it’s Aer Arann and Ryanair on the route, you don’t get checked through.
BTW Aer Lingus have now started using the only airbridge at Cork Airport.
Our national airline does not fly from the second city to our capital.
Is Ryanair an option ?
Another example how Cork loses out be it North Ring road,Macroom By-pass,Sarsfield & Bandon road roundabouts,New Buses or feasibility for light rail,Airport Debt.Watching Eco Eye with Duncan Stewert the whole programme was about Dublin as usual and 5 seconds on Cork & Galway.Farcical.
Transport 21 does not deliver for Cork.
@jungle wrote:
Central Government will not fund it. It won’t pass any form of cost-benefit analysis. Private Enterprise will not fund it. It won’t be profitable.
Cost benifit analysis can be applied to anything as a reason NOT to do something.Not every cultural / social / investment has to make a monetary profit.As I am only living here 2.5 years the experience at meetings with Corks L.A.’s and developers compared to the Capital is astounding in it negativity and more reasons NOT to proceed with developments rather than encouragement from planners etc.Last week the Examiner published a free supplement of the docklands proposals which was merely City Quarter photographed from every available angle bar outer space.Horgans Quay is waiting 10 years for a planning application ?The Docklands was launched 6 years ago and the future planning delays will add years more even if it gets that far.
I fail to see how a cable car up Patrick’s Hill will encourage people to stay in the city for concerts, sports, events and shopping. Now, if you’d suggested spending the money on a multi-discipline sports stadium or events centre, that is more likely to see government, if not private funding.
Visit any small,medium or large city,in fact don’t bother just read the guide books – All these cities have a list of top ten places,attractions to visit – I would struggle to find ten in Cork city.I have visitors down from Dublin etc for weekend to visit the city and after The English Market,St.Finnbars,Lunch in the Farmgate,Stroll up Shandon (massive potential left neglected) A drink in the Long Valley or Bogega a good 3 -4 hours are taken care of quite well but thats it ! Love Cork but not a lot to see or do thats the impression as the tourism figurs don’t lie to the fact that the city is bypassed by the majority of visitors.Knock in the middle of nowhere is getting trans- Atlantic flights. How about a cost benifit analysis on the inccrease of tourism to the West of Ireland and the loss to the south ? How about move the Opera House & Crawford to the docklands – Brand new and fit for purpose,larger and capable of taking conventions and larger concerts.Unlikely as Limerick will get a 8,000 indoor arena thus making Corks proposed venue ( still at only idea stage) unviable.Killarney has a 4,500 venue and has international acts year round and the knock on economic benifit. Cork airport is a fantastic facility but they have to go cap in hand to Dublin,destinations are actually decreasing.
LUAS cost €]Light Rail for Cork – not a hope I’d say.Where is the political will ? Look at the decrepid Bus & Rail stations getting nothing more than a glorified lick of paint. €32m per km.what a rip-off.Could be done a lot cheaper as per.mainland Europe.Where are the new buses ? Belching out diesel fumes and environmentally nasty.[/B]
It’s closed on Sunday, but that can be changed. Realistically, you’re not going to be able to compete with the Tate Modern or the Musee D’Orsay. Even the last places on your list don’t do this. What I suggested was giving a focus towards building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years. It’s an achievable ambition and would attract in a number of visitors from around Ireland if properly marketed.
Salford/Gateshead has great galleries and no one is suggesting competing with Paris just on a smaller scale.
Building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years ? Most of it is in storage in Dublin and dusted off for various exhibitions in wait for it…….. Dublin ! Again the Crawford is not fit for purpose.Cork has plenty of attractions in limited range of the city. What the city needs to do is make sure it can be a base for people who want to see these while on a short break. People will be able to go to Blarney, Midleton or Cobh, but will base themselves in the city and use the city’s hotels and restaurants. Nobody is going to go on a weekend break to Midleton or Blarney. Cork doesn’t attract many. Put the whole lot into a single package and you have a product you can push.
That depends on whether you think that the city should cater to its inhabitants or tourists first.
It may sound crazy and it happens all over Europe but how about both ?
This is an argument about the cable-car, not all potential projects in Cork. Each one has to be assessed on its merits The money doesn’t come from nowhere, it has to be justified. Have a look at the history of Montreal in the 70s and 80s if you want to see a city that went for a number of grand projects and nearly destroyed itself in the process. There is a limited pot at Central Government level. What Cork needs to do is work out how to get its just share. Proposing projects that won’t get through CBA is not the way to do this.
The cable car is just kite flying and focussing on that is just stupid but its an idea wotrth debating none the less but the point is Cork needs ideas and fast.Only seriously getting to know the city in the past year or so and the overiding impression is lost opportunity with the river and quays,Patricks Quay,Georges Quay and Batchelors quay barely have footpaths up at the quay,no trees or seating ? Cars actually parked right up to the quay by the College of commerce.Would that happen in Amsterdam or Bruge ? Again massive potential neglected and the job of selling Cork just gets harder with the lack of renewal.Cork has this great maritime tradition – where is the museum dedicated to all of this heritage ? The great port of Cork buildings are falling down and the area used for parking yet more cars.Fantastic historical and architectural heritage ignored in Cork
Have a look at Clonakilty and Kinsale – smaller communities who get it mostly right and when the by-pass roads aroung the city are built in a few years why come here at all ? Cobh and Cork City need to pull their socks up.
@jungle wrote:
Where is the money going to come from?
Central Government Lobbying,Private Enterprise,Cork Chamber of Commerce businesses when they realise that everyone in Cork is off to Killarney / Dublin / Thomond / London for concerts,sports events and shopping etc.As is currently the case.
I’m assuming that a cable car is going to cost in the region of E30m to construct and suggesting it could be better used elsewhere.
You are assuming a lot about a cable car for 30m or a funicular railway which BTW were built all over Europe 100+ years ago – its not a new science.Cork actually had an extensive tram system which right now are being re-integrated in U.S. Cities yes the car dependent U.S. is re-introducing trolly busses ah la San Francisco.
Even Houston Texas has a Luas line which is being expanded.You want to spend it on tourism? Try making the Crawford Art Gallery something that people will come to from around Ireland to see.
Is it open Sundays even along with the Museum in Fitzgerald Park ? Is it likely to attract visitors used to The Tate Modern,Musee De Orsee,The Baltic Mills,Albert Dock,Collins Barracks,Royal Hospital ? Hardly.
You want to spend it on the city’s transport infrastructure? Giving the city a workable bus service is a bit more meaningful than spending on something that will transport maybe 100 people per hour up Patrick’s Hill.
Cork has serious trouble getting any money to invest in the city or county, what we can’t afford to do is squander it on projects that are of limited benefit to the city.
You really want to attract tourists to Cork? Here’s a suggestion. Many of the city’s attractions actually lie in towns that are a short distance outside – Blarney Castle, Midleton Distillery, Cobh Heritage Centre, Ballincollig Powder Mills. How about a tourist card that gives people 3 day usage of public transport to visit these places and a reduction on entry when they’re there. It works in Helsinki and Madrid, no reason it can’t be part of the Cork package. It might do a bit more to attract inbound tourists than a cable car, which would probably be unknown outside Ireland anyway,
Exactly most of the county of Corka attractions are outside the city – We are talking abot the city to keep tourists enjoying City atractiojns,pubs,restaurants,shops,hotels,newsagents etc. not send the money West ?
Cork needs attractions,ideas,innovation,excitement not buses and apartments.I don’t lack vision for what can be achieved in Cork, but I do demand that we are sensible in our approach to our vision. Pie in the sky projects will never attract central government funding because they’ll fail on the cost-benefit analysis. Let’s try to get money that we actually have a hope of receiving.
Sensible ? Would Columbus have found America if someone said it was’nt sensible ? Cork is being left behind and no one here does anything about it – its happening slowly and surely.Visit Dublin some weekend,it has the facilities and is getting better facilities ALL the time in every field.Everey weekend ther is something on worth doing be it sport music or theatre etc.Pie in the sky ? Was’nt The Eiffel Tower Pie in the sky ? The space needle Seattle ? The Astrodome Houston ?
The Pompodou Centre Paris ? The Funkturm Berlin ? London Eye ?Cork has massive potential but zero ambition on a european scale not to mention a world scale.
jungle wrote:I’m sure someone’s thrown that out as an idea every year since I was a kid. The worst thing is you hear people throwing around phrases about it attracting tourists. No tourist is going to come to go on a cable car. Spend the substantial amount it would cost turning the Crawfoed into the best gallery for contemporary Irish art and you may attract tourists (and at worst would have saleable assets if it didn’t work), but building a cable car to attract tourists?Realistically,
- There aren’t enough tourists in the city to justify it Chicken and egg situation.
- There aren’t enough people living on top of the hill to justify it Put tourist attraction up there
- There aren’t enough reasons to go to the top of the hill to justify it see above.
With this kind of attitude nothing will ever developed to attract tourists or locals to the second city which lags so far behind other tourist centres,Killarney,Galway & Dublin.
Knock gets U.S.flights and Cork loses its U.K. ferry ?
Cork has a fantastic new terminal with fewer and fewer flights and a shorter runway than Knock in the middle of nowhere.Where is the political will in Cork for the loss of BUPA,Motorola etc.Limerick get Thomond,Dublin and Belfast get IKEA sorry Dublin get everything and the attendant problems afterwards.Cork does not have even a concert conference venue whilst Killarney has the NEC.Cork needs to wake up.
Put a great park like Park Guell in Barcelona up there ?A viewing tower ? A big wheel jeebus anything to get interest in the city which I find hard to sell to visitors as you could spend maximum a day seeing everything.
Cork needs more great ideas not the usual “Can’t because” attitude.As for doing up the Crawford forget it sell it for retail or Hotel use and build a proper modern gallery in the docklands.Its a no brainer.Cork has a vision centre but NO vision.
More great news for Cork.
Fly New York or Boston to Knock 5 times a week !
Well done Cork Airport,Aer Rianta and our esteemed Government.
Knock airport to begin New York services
29/01/2007 – 12:02:07 PM
Tourism Ireland, the organisation responsible for marketing the island of Ireland overseas, has welcomed the decision by Flyglobespan to commence scheduled services from New York and Boston into Ireland West Airport Knock in May of this year.
Chief Executive of Tourism Ireland Paul O’Toole said: “The new services were a huge vote of confidence in the region.
“They will substantially expand air travel options for potential tourists and open up Ireland’s Western Regions even more as a holiday destination to the lucrative North American market.
“Tourism Ireland will work closely with Flyglobespan, Ireland West Airport Knock and the industry both in Ireland and in the United States, to promote and maximise the inbound tourism potential presented by these new transatlantic routes.”
“The additional capacity facilitated by the FlyGlobeSpan from both Boston and New York to Ireland West Airport will play an important role in growing visitor numbers even further from North America following a very strong performance from this market in 2006.
“Numbers from North America topped 1 million for the first time since 2000 (up 11%) and we in Tourism Ireland have set a target to grow this number by a further 5% in 2007.
“The new services announced here today will do much to help us achieve this ambitious target of 1.1 million visitors from North America to the island of Ireland this year,” he continued.
Ireland West Airport Knock M.D. Liam Scollan said: “These new routes will put the West and the North West of Ireland firmly on the tourist trail for US visitors and I am sure this will boost Tourism Ireland’s plans to continually improve visitor numbers to Ireland and extend tourism benefits throughout the regions.”
Tourism Ireland’s recent review of the North American market found that while Ireland has enjoyed continuing expansion of air services to/from the US, current high load factors are frustrating demand and hampering visitor growth.
Paul O’Toole said: “The announcement of these new services is timely and welcome given the findings of our recent research that increased capacity is vital if Ireland is to fully realise its potential from the North American market. We are also totally committed to encouraging new route developments which improve access to the regions,” he said.
The level of interest in visiting Ireland has never been higher and over half (56%) of US outbound pleasure travellers say they are “extremely or very likely to visit or re-visit Ireland”, according to the Tourism Ireland research.
Nearly half of those who expressed strong interest in visiting Ireland say they are likely to make the trip in the next five years.
