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I really don’t think planners are aware of the brilliant opportunity their messing about with here. This may be a first-party ABP job here – that is if OFC don’t withdraw the application fearing a negative outcome and/or list of conditions. I hope City Manager talks resolve this a.s.a.p.
I doubt OFC will withdraw their application to be honest Lexington.. Especially since they’ve put so much time and effort into the whole project. Lets hope the city planners come to their senses. Every appartment needs at least one car space, not a half 😡
I’d say if OFC aren’t successful with CCC, we could see them going to An Bord Pleanála.. Which would be a real pity and so time consuming.. Lets hope they do’t have to go down this road 🙂
Personally, I think the Irish planning process is a complete joke. As a member of the public, I am generally left completely in the dark about these projects, their implications and the possibilities or problems they will create for the city.
Surely city planning should be a very open and public process that engages the population with the development plan. It seems that these planners operate in isolation and impose decisions from upon high almost like some sort of Soviet style design bureau.
As for the track record of planning departments. CCC’s planning department seem to have drastically held up development for no good reason while at the same time have granted permission to some hideous and totally inappropriate developments over the years.
The whole process needs to be opened up and made much more public.
Thanks to all the corruption in the Dublin area leading to the various tribunals our elected representatives seem to be largly shut out of the planning process or afraid to get involved too.
New developments of this scale should be highly publicised, models put on display, articles published in the papers etc etc…
It seems it only happens after the decisions are made.
With regard to Ascon being apparently awarded the tender for the Kinsale Road Roundabout, that was known well before Christmas. Apparently Gama were shocked at this revelation, which I’m not suprised to hear, cos their tender was apparently meant to have been quite low??? Could be wrong though. But I’m sure you would all agree that Gama did a FANTASTIC job of the Ballincollig Bypass and completed it well ahead of schedule. So I wonder, why weren’t they awarded the tender, since they are fantastic are constructing bridges, they have the equipment required to construct the bridge from the Ballincollig Bypass, and their labour is quite cheap.
Also, when are the works starting on the roundabout??
Was also wondering, does any1 have any progress photos of Ballincollig Town Centre to hand?? :rolleyes:i think that between extensive pre-planning, the well-established status of the site in relation to Docklands Strategy, the CCC’s Development Brief, and the Further Information request, the Council have had plenty of time and opportunity to consider the application. It is not, in my opinion, very even-handed – there is something else going on here – I expect they will give a permission – but this type of approach by CCC to what is a high quality and strategic project which goes a long way to advancing Docklands aspirations is very unhelpful – and is being noted im sure by major developers curently looking at the city and who wonder whether the city’s reputation as ‘anti-development + politically-dominated in planning terms’ is true or not.
To be honest, I’m sure u will all agree that CCC request for further information with regard to the Eglinton Street development is a joke. I really believe that because of their lack of ability to see a worthwhile project, it is costing Cork numerous development opportunities.
Poor form on CCC 😡
Some quite interesting stuff in the pipeline then!
Really glad ot see the end of that horrendous prefab thing on Patrick’s Street! What exactly does it do? Is it some sort of club house for bored CIE drivers?
Surely they should provide these facilities at the bus station?Also regarding the taxi ranks: I don’t think they’re an eye sore they’re part of any urban street scape. It’d be nice to see an improvement in terms of the standards of taxis though. They should offer tax breaks for them to upgrade to standardised cars fit for public service. The current fleet are mostly quite OK cars, but they’re not designed to work as taxis. i.e. non-washable seats etc..
And while on a bit of a rant about public transport. Isn’t it about time that Bus Eireann in the Cork City and commuter belt area is seperated off into an independent entity with its own identity? Ala Dublin Bus. I get the impression that Bus Eireann management doesn’t really understand what’s going on in Cork and sit in Bus Aras looking at 1950s maps of the city. The Cork bus system doesn’t hold a candle to the Dublin network yet given the size of Cork, the fact that it’s better planned and less sprawling and has a road infrastructure that actually works it amazes me that we don’t have an efficient and flexible bus system. E.g. try getting a bus to from Glamire, Middleton, Blarney, Carrigaline .. and then compare that journey to a Dublin area of equivilant size and location.. It’s like night and day! Also the complete lack of any form of Nitelink service is nuts. And we’ve no electronic ticketing, no easy to use monthly, weekly, daily tickets etc etc.. it all adds up to making the bus system user unfriendly.
I know that’s slightly off-topic but I do consider public transport as an integral part of city planning and thus relevent to architecture.
No it’s long gone.
There’s a new bookshop (John Smith & Co) located on the ground and lower ground floor of the Student Centre where the Café used to be before the extension. Quite a lot more spacious than the old Waterstones outlet in the boole basement. The entire Boole Basement is now a much enhanced open-access computer centre.
Also, the two banks are gone from the Boole. AIB is no longer on campus (but it did open a new branch on college road) and Bank of Ireland has exclusive on-campus access with a new plush branch in the student centre. They also have exclusive rights to place ATMs on campus. As far as I know UCC let the banks bid against eachother to gain access to the campus. They’re all quite keen to sign up 3rd level students.
Cork and Dublin should really get over themselves when it comes to “high rise” when it’s done well it can look absolutely spectacular.
Have a look at something like the John Hancock tower in Boston from Copley Plaza.. old city scape and a huge glass tower looking really well together.
Brown Thomas – Cork
I was in Brown Thomas for the first time in several months recently and noticed that the store looks really worn out. I assume it’s about to get a minor “facelift” in the next few months?
It seemed to be suffering from the ravages of very very heavy after – christmas sales.
UCC’s recent buildings have generally been really nice.
I’d love to see the Boole Library get a bit of an interior face lift though. It’s becoming increasingly drab and dated, or perhaps I’m just getting too used to it 🙂
Well, the inside of the Science building’s not too bad given its age. But you have to agree it’s hardly what you’d might call attractive looking from outside.
The new lecture theatres look nice but are unfortunately suffer from very impractical seating the desks are extremely high and uncomfortable.
The Anglesea street garda station would look ok if it wasn’t for the incrediably drab pebble-dash finish that was used on it. It would look far better if it were to be faced with stone.
That pebble-dash finish will look absolutely terrible in a few decades time as it starts to deteroriate and gather moss!
Re: Merchants Quay
That centre has to be one of the ugliest buildings in Ireland. I don’t know what was there before but it completely destroyed that entire quay. If it were to be refurbished it would be really nice if they did something about creating more access from the quay itself and at the very least added attractive shop fronts. The red brick finish just looks cheap, tacky and doesn’t fit in with the rest of the city at all.
As for the Quay on the other side. What can you say!? It is a complete and total mess. The back of the metropole is beyond hideous. None of the buildings in Cork, not even the UCC science bulding even come close to the ugliness of that. What makes it even worse is the fact that it’s one of the most prominant positions in the entire city. That entire quay needs urgent re-development.
It could be a fantastic shopping area and a nice extension to the patrick’s street project. If merchants quay was given a rather drastic face lift and a wide pedestrian bridge added half way along they quay.. i.e. at the existing entrance to the shopping centre. The opposite quay could be redeveopled… add some boardwalks, nice landscaping etc.. property prices would shoot up and the mess of tumble down buildings would soon disappear!
Dunnes Stores (North Main Street) and associated Car park..
Again, another absolutely disgusting monstrosity… Who ever gave this planning permission ? The Paul Street Shopping Centre Carpark is pretty bad, but at least it’s now covered up by the developments on the quay side. The Dunnes Stores carpark just looks absolutely terrible.
As for Mahon Point’s traffic problems… give them a little while, the CCC for some inexplicable reason has yet to programme the traffic light system.
They’ve put in a very sophisticated and expensive looking system of high level and low level traffic lights but as yet they’re all still flashing orange!
For traffic coming from the Douglas side of the south ring this means that they have no priority when coming on to the intersection at the end of the off-ramp / slipway and it’s creating very long and even dangerous tail backs back out onto the southlink.The traffic coming from the East side out of the tunnel is moving quite well.
Thos lights SHOULD be on and working at this stage it’s completely nuts that they arn’t…. I wouldn’t be supprised if it has caused several accidents as it’s forcing people to negociate crossing several lanes of traffic.
The recent idiotic tunnel accident hasn’t helped matters either.
Btw: regarding the tunnel : wouldn’t it make a lot of sense to install a large metal structure the same height as the tunnel several meters before the entrance? I know they have automatic over-height detection systems and warnings but surely it would make some sence to hit a large metal pole rather than smash up hundreds of thousands of euro worth of electrical gear on the tunnel ceiling !?
Also re: Mahon Point – Retail mix.
I don’t think the mix of shops is that bad to be quite honest. It’s very focused on clothes retail obviously but I don’t agree that it’s targeting an exclusively female market. The centre has by FAR the best selection of menswear in Cork. The city centre’s absolutely terrible for menswear.
Mahon Point menswear retailers: Zara, Next, Best, Lacoste, Debenhams, River Island, French Connection / FCUK etc.. (these are just off the top of my head).
It would be cool to see a few non-clothing stores open up in the centre e.g. maybe electronics/computers etc.. although I get the impression that we’ll see a “big box” electrical retailer in the retail park. e.g. one of the UK ones.. There’s a supprising lack of a large Curry’s in Cork.
Is Harvey-Norman (Australian retailer opened in Dublin) likely to open here? Little island? Mahon?
in cork city council’s development brief for the patrick st/academy st site, it was clear that they are eager to retain the laneways – faulkners + bowling green and it is proposed that any development would use the lanes as an integral part of a scheme – it also suggests widening of faulkners to make an attractive pedestrian thoroughfare
“There is simply no, logical motive for moving the train station and Bus station together.”
what an amazing statement – so – there is no logic in having a public transport interchange that cobmines rail and bus on the city’s largets opportunity site in a docklands location?? – because bus eireann have stated that 95% of passengers preferred is to stay as it is – that is absolute rubbish – integrated networks within a city centre site (horgans quay) is the optimum scenario for public transport in the city – not a fragmented, second class system where bus and rail systems have no interaction – the shuttle service idea is purely unecessary – the real distance bw the bus and rail station equates toa 5 minute walk! its a bit sad today to see bus eireaan boasting about the half assed effort they have made – and quote european transport ministers as if they even know where cork’s bus station is – the reality is is that horgans quay is city centre, is strategically positioned in terms of the road and rail and bus network, the associated development potential would have paid for a new terminus and it would have been well connected to existing city centre and the future docklands – we really shouldnt accept bus erireann’s warped logic and their emabarassing effort to use a covert public consultation excersise to justify their lack of ambition.
radioactiveman
frinailla’s ladyswell development is in planning as far as i know – it is a mixed use retail-residential-community-office development up to five storeys – vast improvement on th eprevious application, it integrates far better into streetscape, has variety in form -materials and the massing is much more sensitive – also an element of civic space.
the bus station is a vast improvement i agree, it appears to be a more efficient facility. however, it is a half-assed job, it really should have been part of an integrated development, allowing offices/commercial on a number of floors over the bus depot/yard/station building – a developer would have funded this in return for the development opportunity overhead.
however, i think the best site was/is horgan’s quay – approx 3-5 mins walk from existing bus station. radioactiveman – people walk to horgans quay to get a train – they would do it to get a (intercity) bus. all city/suburban services do not need to operate from a station facility – they can use the quays as existing and do not need to call to a station to serve their routes. horgans quay would then become an integrated station hub, connecting bus and rail networks in an accessible location – future docklands area – extension to city centre.
as for retail and the train station and the city’s policies – the city has a culture of fear in terms of retail – the docklands will need retail for it to proceed – this will bolster the city centre because it will act as an extension and not a competitor to existing city centre retail area. patrick st cannot accomodate the demand from potential tenants as it is – and there has been a situation for a long time of retailers trying to get a foothold in cork – but there is no available city centre space. the city centre retail area needs to expand or the city will suffer – as it has in the past – and cornmarket st + academy st will not be enough to cope with demand in my opinion. its a bit ironic that the city council were happy to grant permission for mahon retail but are afraid of allowing a retail destination at horgans quay as part of a large scale mixed use development which would have underpinned the redevelopment of practically all the north docklands
anyone see yesterday’s examiner article by des o sullivan on urban design + architecture in the city? the before and after photos of merchants quay were excellent – merchants quay building is definitely one of my worst. also on maccurtian st. the 4 storey building immediately next to gallaghers – still looks unfinished and terrible-painted pink i think.
i dont understand when you say ‘it looks cheap’ ? in what way? i think that it looks the opposite – its clear that a lot of time and money was spent on design and materials – and is finished to a high standard it actually looks the opposite to cheap. also the site can only be described as being slightly prominent from the western approach along the straight road where the profile is only 3 – 4 storeys, the rest of the building is well screened due to tree cover and the site’s configuration so th etaller parts are not very visible.
the new red brick apartment development on the blackpool bypass by F Sheahan (I Think – PJ Hegarty were the contractors) is in a prominent position – and its beginning to look awful – also a relatively high structure – up to eight i think – anyone hear complaints??? and if you want to see cheap – look there.
agreed on mahon – access is quite bad and the impact on the south ring road will be enormous – already is in fact. as for the shopping centre itself – it is fitted out and constructed to a high standard – the layout and finishing is effcetive – and is a far better ‘experience’ than liffey vally for eg, in my opinion. however, its proximity to the tunnel and the south ring road will be a disaster – a centre of this size should have been north and east of the tunnel (little island/cobh cross area) and i predict that the city centre will be just as accessible as mahon.
i disagree about victoria cross apartments – its become a bit of a hobby in cork to whinge about those the echo have done so and other usual suspects – and if they had been 3 storey mock georgian cheap looking buildings – no-one would have peeped – the building…is a strong and distinctive architectural statement, finished to a v high standard is pretty striking and – is not the same as the majority of the student apartment crap we are used to.
(in my opinion) there should be more like it in the city – we need good high qaulity contemporary design. also there are literally hundreds of TERRIBLE buildings in the city – why is this single structure being singled out?
i do agree about the apartments adjacent to derek tynan’s cinema at the gate – they are shocking. the glucksman is without doubt one of the city’s finest buildings (old and new), pana is the berries and camden quay is shaping up very well – i assume you are referring to the camden quay/knapps square one next to pa johnsons pub and not the one next to the temporary courthouse??
