Devin
Forum Replies Created
- AuthorPosts
Devin
ParticipantSHORT-SIGHTED APPROACH TO LUAS DOES NOT WORK IN THE LONG RUN
Garret FitzGeraldOn several occasions in 1997 I wrote in this column about Luas, Dublin’s light-rail tram system.
I argued that because of the volume of traffic that would be generated by the proposed line from Stillorgan (and eventually from Bray) to Stephen’s Green and onwards towards the airport, it should be designed and built as a full-fledged metro (i.e. underground) rail system through the city centre rather than as an on-street tram.
I based this argument on official traffic projections made in the early 1990s which I modified to allow for the implications of the Celtic Tiger ……..……….. In addition, continuing it on-street to O’Connell Street would greatly congest the difficult Dawson Street/Nassau Street corner and the narrow street between Trinity College and the Bank of Ireland ………
In 1997 there was immediate strong opposition to my suggestion that the Luas project should be reviewed in the light of these facts.
However, after that year’s election, the PDs, returning to government after five years’ absence, grasped the half of my argument about congestion in the city centre. Yet they apparently did not grasp the even more crucial element of my case about traffic volumes.
As a result the new government was then persuaded to adopt a short-sighted, half-measure by stopping the Luas tram at Stephen’s Green instead of converting it into a metro running in a tunnel from just south of Ranelagh and onwards through the city centre.
As I predicted, Luas traffic volumes have already been much higher than planned.
Indeed, despite the termination of the tram service at Stephen’s Green, there have from the outset been problems of capacity shortage at peak hours ……………….. Instead of taking the opportunity to create now a through metro service between south Dublin, O’Connell Street and the airport, the current plans involve spending money on the construction of two almost parallel Luas and metro lines between Stephen’s Green and O’Connell Street.
However, duplicating the new metro between Stephen’s Green and O’Connell Street by extending the over-ground Luas even further into the city will disrupt the whole south city centre for several years and, when completed, will slow the passage of two-thirds of our city bus services.
May 4, 2006 at 5:43 am in reply to: Aren’t the Irish Independent Property Supplement a disgrace? #752510Devin
Participant
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2006/0427/216653315RPBALLYBRITTAS.html
WINNING FORMULA OF HIGH SPEC AT LOW COST
Fiona Tyrrell 27/04/06Housing Trends
Just because no one has heard of Ballybrittas doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve good quality, claims developer Mick Cox whose high-spec development in the small Co Laois village was an instant sell-out earlier this month.Young buyers and retired couples queued from 4am to put their deposit down for one of 77 homes at Graigavern Lodge, Ballybrittas located half way between Monasterevin and Portarlington in Co Laois.
Prices started at €259,000 for three-bedroom semi-detached houses with 119sq m (1,280sq ft) of living space and went up to €420,000 for 175sq m (1,885sq ft) four/five-bed homes.With a cancellation list of 70 names, John Dunne of Hume Auctioneers says they could have sold the development twice over.
The secret of the success of the scheme? “Very good quality at a competitive price,” said the developer, Mick Cox of Boderg, who has been building in London for years. “Just because the houses are not €750,000 houses doesn’t mean they can’t have a good quality fit-out,” he explains.
People don’t want cheap and cheerful anymore and are fed up with small, high density three-bed semis with the creaking door, no storage space and low quality, according to Cox. “We recognise that people are not just buying a house. They are making the biggest purchase of their lives and you have to get it right.”
The UK residential sector is streets ahead of Ireland in terms of finish and quality, according to Cox. Cox transferred some elements of the UK sector to Ireland for the scheme. Site foremen were brought in from the UK. A quality control team flew over once a week to oversee the finish of the houses.
The Irish idea of getting nothing but the house and doing the rest yourself is unheard of in the UK, according to Cox.
“The demand is so strong in Ireland that a lot of developers have taken their eye off the ball in terms of quality fit-out and finish.” The spec at Graigavern Lodge is above average; particularity for homes in the wider commuter belt.
……………..A big player in the UK scene, Cox’s UK company Hollybrook builds around 600 houses and apartments a year in the greater London area, making it the fourth largest developer in London.
………
Cox, who is originally from Rooskey in Co Roscommon and his wife Pauline, from Mountmellick, Co Laois, purchased the site in Ballybrittas just over a year ago.
After the success of the Ballybrittas scheme, Cox is scouting around for more suitable sites and plans to become a big player in the Irish market.© The Irish Times
[align=center:1ti5eeys]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/align:1ti5eeys]
Well this is just what we need to reverse our chronic sprawl and car-dependency!
We’ve realised that the only sustainable way forward is to create compact high-quality urban areas well-served by public transport, but now Mick Cox is going to come here and start building estates of luxury homes 50 miles from Dublin from which the only means of transport is the car!
Dissapointed in the Irish Times’ tone of reportage here!
Devin
ParticipantAre you mixing me up with someone else? I didn’t say Grand Canal Street should be refused. I said that because of the prime office location & vacant houses it was inevitably going to be complete demolition or facade retention, and that I was surprised the trouble was taken to keep the facades in this case.
[align=center:359tybvp]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/align:359tybvp]

Adding upwards onto an older building is fraught at the best of times. This is an example of perhaps where it has been done well.

And, 100 metres away, an example of where it has been done badly (the front). You feel like you could break that brick storey off in your hand!
Devin
Participant@Bren88 wrote:
– Ref.1871/06
Decision : GRANT PERMISSIONYes, Dublin City council has decided to grant permission for the above. There are conditions attached but they appear to be pretty standard. Things like working hours on site, conservation architect and oh a contribution to DCC of €17,000
Everything around there seems to get granted. Not going to repeat comments I made elsewhere about the area planner, but there is an extremely facilitatory attidude towards development.
Consideration of relevant policy for this proposal will now require the expense of an appeal …
Devin
ParticipantHi Jean. These threads might be a bit more specific to your question (this one is only for perverts and obsessives!) :
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3651&highlight=timber+windows
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4846&highlight=timber+windows
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3995&highlight=timber+windows
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4017&highlight=timber+windows
Rationel make nice timber windows and are not too dear.
Devin
ParticipantYes, no one could complain because it’s executed so well: it enriches the city. The close-up view of the steep roof pitches, finials and chimneys of the yellow sandstone building must be great from up there.
[align=center:2dm08o0l]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/align:2dm08o0l]
Cavendish Row might appear somewhat logical on straight-on profile …
Just going back to this for a minute. An additional glass storey on this building is wrong regardless of design imo. But the Parnell Street elevation is actually significantly worse in impact than the Cavendish Row one 😮 :
.Devin
Participant@hutton wrote:
@Devin wrote:
In situations like these you are not retaining the buildings as such]Aah but not quite – a closer examination of the railings shows that they are A) Brand new, B) of cheap quality 🙁
Ah now hutton I think you’re splittin’ hairs. I just put that in so as no one would say ‘actually the steps and railings are there as well’. The main point remains.
The retained brick facade on the quay at Millenium Walk – under discussion in another thread at the moment – is another example of where a brick facade has been retained as a ‘feature’ within a new development rather than trying to pretend it’s a retained old building.
Re: Shelbourne 6-storey over basement Georgian building:
Yeah that was a surprising alteration for the time. Must have been unique in the city …Devin
Participant

Here are the Grand Canal Street (Hogan Place) buildings before & after. Seeing as they were mostly unoccupied and in poor condition and located in a prime commercial area it was always going to be complete demolition or else this. I’m surprised even the trouble was taken to keep the fronts in this case. (Better buildings in Dublin have been completely demolished.)
In situations like these you are not retaining the buildings as such; rather you are retaining the brick fa
Devin
ParticipantHard to believe it’s still happening in Ireland in 2006, isn’t it? It looks like the worst of 1993!!
Devin
ParticipantYou do realise there was a fatal shooting there not too long ago, ctesiphon?! 😮
[align=center:28r90pyl]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/align:28r90pyl]

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000061.html
Just on this ‘SoHo’ thing, there was a recent ‘Times architecture page devoted to all the new development in the Coombe area, which I found to be surprisingly approving in tone.
There is some good, appropriate new development alright, especially at the upper (Dolphin’s Barn) end of the new road. The 12-storey building by FKL Architects (above) looks brilliant – I am sure they are thrilled with it. It shows you how good a mid-tall building can be in the right place.
But the area around the Ardee Street crossroads at the lower end is a complete write-off in terms of the relationship of the new buildings with each other, and, more particularly, the marriage of the new buildings with the old – and needless to say the older buildings have come off worse. Protected Structures have been overwhelmed and dominated by huge new buildings in direct proximity to them. The former industrial brewing and malting character of the area has been all but wiped out by this aggressive new development. The argument of Dublin City Council planner Kieran Rose (as quoted in the piece) that the scale is needed to “contain†the new street is seriously deficient when applied to the sensitive Ardee Street area.
The Department of the Environment issued guidelines to planning authorities a couple of years ago, giving detailed advice on the considerations that need to be made when assessing proposals for new development affecting the curtilage and setting of Protected Structures, but it is doubtful these guidelines were so much as glanced at by Mr. Rose & Co. when processing plans for the Ardee Street part of the Coombe bypass.
I don’t know what the situation was with regard to 3rd party involvement, if any (I wasn’t around myself when most of it went through planning), but I’m pretty sure that the worst of these schemes would not have had such an easy time from An Bord Pleanala, had they been sent there.
If there is an upside to this, Ardee Street will stand as an example of how not to develop a historic corner of the city.

The HKR building at the northwest corner of the crossroads is gone even higher than before. Here it is with its original 6-storey design printed on the banner. But they’ve since gone back for one more storey (doubtless when they saw how monstrously big the KMD 7-storey one across the road was). This extra storey is under construction at the moment behind the scaffolding.
Designing a 6-storey composition then arbitrarily adding one more storey on top because the building across the road is gone up to that does not make good urban design!!
(Having said that, the internal areas and courtyards of the HKR scheme don’t look too bad.)
The new height of it now makes Ardee Court (foreground, discussed earlier) – which is quite a substantial development – look undersized. You can be sure the Ardee Court developers are pulling their hair out now wishing they’d tried to get one or two more floors than they did! Another 4 or 5 apartments maybe? All that missed lolly! 😡
What a mess!
(The Georgian houses on the extreme left and right were once huge in relation to most buildings in the area.)Where having a number of different architects working on the redevelopment of an area should be a virtue – as for example at the West End of Temple Bar – here, it has just resulted in a retarded, uncoordinated mess.

This one right at the very bottom of the bypass is fine; it’s not bullying any historic buildings.

And what of the last undeveloped (southeast) corner of the Ardee Street crossroads? The approved scheme is a sensitive, appropriately-scaled one, and would have been a model for all the new development in the Ardee Street area. But will they be back for bigger heights now that most everything else around is gone so big? – It won’t surprise me.
Devin
ParticipantI’d hoped it wouldn’t seem like I was against any additional modern storeys onto older buildings – that’s not what the thread is about at all! It is about individual buildings and the area in which they are located. There are plenty of cases where it is fine and even desirable. For example 2 extra storeys have been added onto a complex of 4-storey brick and stone warehouses on Pim Street beside the Grand Canal Harbour and it looks great (I will post a picture).
But there are some buildings which you just couldn’t add modern floors onto & I think the Cavendish Row and Thomas Street buildings two such ones.
Perhaps the yoke on the oak is OK as a one-off and because it is tucked into a taller building at one side. But where do you draw the line? You would have to have a general policy of preventing modern storeys being added onto older buildings in the main historic streets of the city centre. (Anyway the DoE Guidelines for protected structures and ACAs do protect against this in Section 9.2.7).
I know the Grand Canal Street one hutton and I agree there’s no problems there.
Devin
ParticipantI would like to see this idea getting the mass thumbs-down like the NCAD idea did.
Re: State of O’Connell Bridge:
Let’s face it though – improvement works to the bridge probably won’t begin until Luas comes across it (and it seems most likely that it will) – there would be no point in starting until then.
The Luas link is going through its red tape at the moment. It could be another year or two years before work begins. In the meantime, fill in the missing baluster with a concrete replica maybe ….!
Devin
ParticipantThat’s it – it’s all about precedent. If DCC have internally referred these two proposals to their Conservation Officer – as they should do, being P.S.s – then they will almost definitely be refused.. But if not, one could slip through and a precedent would be created.
Best to be sure and get a letter in at DCC stage so as to have an appeal fallback.
Devin
ParticipantI was there for the afternoon part of the conference.
Michael Collins (a former councillor?) gave an entertaining presentation on the ‘Sutton-to-Sandycove’ cycle lane around Dublin Bay, saying why it is a good idea and why it is needed etc. But – the million dollar question – he didn’t say what stage it’s at now or when it would be likely to proceed. This project has been on the cards now for years – it’s badly needed. How much more ‘adopting’ does it have to go through?!
When Collins was finished speaking and questions were being taken, some guy erupted from the sidelines. I couldn’t really make him out very well but he seemed to be a Sandymount resident savagely opposed to creating any more promenade at Sandymount (like the 1km stretch that is already there). What was his point? Anyone know? Every city in the world has promenades / esplanades / walkways beside the sea. It is typically Irish that you should just have a vicious road and nothing else right beside the sea.
Sutton-to-Sandycove website:
Devin
ParticipantIt’s fine to demolish the blank Dunnes facade off Henry Street, but the 1917 buildings shouldn’t have been demolished, especially as they were part of a unified terrace.
The Laughter Lounge also did this when they were redeveloping; as well as their blank facade they also demolished a couple (two, I think) of original ‘teens or ’20s buildings on Eden Quay.
Devin
Participant@StephenC wrote:
Changing the name seems such an easy way of covering over the less savory aspects of an area rather than actually dealing with them.
Ever noticed the way areas that are brutalised by traffic have more than their fair share of institutions for the disadvantaged? The two seem to go hand in hand. So in the immediate vicinity of Christchurch you have the Back Lane Homeless Shelter, the Castle Street methadone & traveller’s welfare centre, the Lord Edward Street medical card office and the Merchant’s Quay drug treatment centre. Grafton Street wouldn’t want them anyway!
I am in the area most days and I don’t actually mind the junkies and the winos – they have a humanising effect on the area (the opposite effect to the traffic). The junkies are quite a benign sort – not likely to mug you. But obviously it’s not an ideal way for anybody to be, and it doesn’t look good in front of the tourists.
But I think that the social problems in the area are nothing compared to the traffic problems.
Devin
Participant
The jets flying over look good!
Are they mirroring the plan of O’Connell Street / D’Olier Street / Westmoreland Street here?
Devin
Participant@Graham Hickey wrote:
Above all though, I just cannot believe for a second that Trinity would even think about attempting to do this, in spite of their record elsewhere on campus. These windows are its most prized asset outside of the Library building – it’s akin to cutting the pages of the Book of Kells down to size beacause they won’t fit in the display case.
Hence I remain fairly optimistic that nothing untoward is going on, and that all the glass dates from a variety of periods – however naive it may be…A hi-profile instance of replacement of Georgian sashes/old glass with new sashes and fake-old glass would not be unknown, for e.g. in the rear bows of the National Gallery Georgian house:
(Re Trinity work: an inspection has been made by DCC Conservation Office – that’s all the info I have at the moment)
.Devin
Participant@Graham Hickey wrote:
Some of the Trinity windows below. The majority of the West Front’s old panes, certainly in the non-restored windows, seem to be an early form of cylinder glass, with that typical wrinkled and warped texture like the skin that forms on hot milk:

Yes, most of the remaining old glass in the not-yet-restored windows of the West Front (and its rear, and the east block) is cylinder, with a lesser amount of crown – not surprising as it is a much older method than cylinder.
It would be tragic to lose all of this, but, imo on the evidence of the restored northern block, that’s exactly what’s going to happen unless the situation is intervened upon.(As you say some windows don’t have that much old glass – just a couple of panes – but overall there is a fair bit left, especially in the upper floors.)
Moving inside to the Front Square and the northern block, and again a mixture of cylinder and modern wavy stuff in this restored window:

I can’t agree with you here Graham. As far as I would be concerned the ‘cylinder’ you refer to is ‘fake old’ glass. It’s some type of agricultural glass, used perhaps for greenhouses and the like. It is used because it looks a bit like cylinder glass. It is just rippley]very odd [/I]pane of genuine cylinder seems to be surviving the restoration (there is one in the middle right of the above pic), but certainly none of the rare and more valuable crown.
I’m pretty sure the ‘wavy modern’ or ‘bendy plastic sheeting’ (good description!) glass – which makes up the majority of glass in the restored windows – is also new; it looks new and it doesn’t seem to exist in any of the not-yet-restored windows. As you hint, perhaps it is intended as a (crap) imitation of crown glass?

This also, as far as I would be concerned, is the ‘fake old’ glass.
[align=center:172goc4d]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/align:172goc4d]
So, in short (I think), all of the former very-flat-modern / cylinder / crown glass of Trinity’s windows is being replaced with a combination of wavy-modern and fake-old glass, with maybe a very small amount of genuine old being saved and reinstated.
The reason for this I reckon is – just like so many things in Dublin at the moment – a need for speed … the number of windows to do versus the contract deadline; when they’re dipping the windows, removing the paint, splicing in new wood etc. it would just take too long to remove the old glass without breaking it … easier to just knock it all out and put new glass in when the work on the sash frame is complete …
The job is proceeding apace. As I said earlier, having completed the northern block, they’ve now moved onto the southern block, and in the last couple of days, a load of sashes have come out of the 2nd floor of the square facade to be taken away for ‘restoration’.
I’ve spoken to the DCC Conservation Officer and also a DoE conservation official and the situation is going to be investigated on Tuesday. Will update.
- AuthorPosts
