dave123
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@PVC King wrote:
Would have been a great aspiration Limerick has 4 potential commuter rail lines, Ennis, Raheen, Nenagh & Tipperary which gives great potential for a high quality commueter rail network in the medium term. Stations at Cratloe, Moyross and Parkway would have been great bolt ons in the short term with a very limited capital cost, I wonder could I.E. Cantilever a three coach platform on one side that knits into the plans for Parkway which is as other contributors have said looking very tired at this stage.
Two of which intersect here, the Ennis and Nenagh lines. The actual line borders the whole Parkway site also. A lot of developers were interested in this idea as part of the redevelopment of the Parkway site, but I don’t think it was followed through now, Another real dissapointment for me. Hopefully some sort of Park and ride could be built. Great potential, as you just stated.
Not an opinion, but fact.
Cork has got enough investment in infrastructure in this government, comparing to other regions.
Galway for example growing much faster than Cork has not got one major road built in the last 10 years. With the exception of the Loughrea relief road, which was urgent and was in the planning for many years. Galway is way behind in terms of infrastructure when compared to Cork. The Balinasloe N6 project is the only major road to start in this region for along time.. Look at the Water crisis Galway is having now?
Limerick SSR started in mid 90s and won’t be finished until the end of 2010. Time and length to build this should not take that long, it’s totally unacceptable. And that’s 16 years and will be tolled. There is nothing else in Limerick in terms of transport that is getting any priority after the SRR or will get the go ahead in this government in my opinion. But the interurban like the rest of the regions will be priority obviously.
Waterford they have only just started on its new ring road now the N25 which will be tolled. Cullen has obviously fast tracked the Dublin to Waterford N9 road to get finished in line with the rest of the inter urbans though.
Cork has the Lee tunnel toll free, Ballincollig bypass, Kinsale roundabout flyover, N27 southlink. Watergrasshil and Fermoy bypasses, Blackpool Bypass, Mallow 2+1 schemes, Youghal bypass, Kinsalbeg N25.Mitchellstown relief road. Hourly train service to Dublin, Kent station upgrade, Cork Airport terminal and now they’ve finally fastracked the Midleton rail line. Cork has gotten a lot more than, you’re letting us to believe in this thread. I could go on..
Anyway, Yes I agree that there are many projects to catch up on and delayed etc. yes I agree Cork should get more funding being Ireland’s second biggest city, but we have to be realistic here too.
So stop winging. It’s not just unique to Cork with the problems in this country…:p
Major news.
Liam Carrol (property developer) has secured planning permission for a major increase and redevelopment at the Parkway Shopping centre(one of the oldest malls in the country) on the Dublin road in Limerick.
Carroll had sought to increase the size of the complex by another 15,000sq metres, and has got the go ahead from LCC.
Also in the plan was to have a 10 screen Cinema as part of the complex has being scrapped, for a new multi functional sports and performance auditorium which will be able to accomadate an Ice rink,sports, basketball court and a theartre.There will also be a wellbeing centre, cafe juice bar and a sports injury clinic, 3 anchor units, over 50 shops, 16 restaurants and a creche. There will be at least 1600 car spaces in the plan too.
Carrol recently bought his joint venture partners Michael and Ralph Parkes out of the planned shopping centre which will be develped on Parkway retail park and adjoining lands.
This has been taken from this weeks Sunday business post.
Does must mean the scrappage of the Park and ride and suburban railway station built here:mad: It would seriously get people out of their cars and take the train. With these redevelopment taking places,( which is needed) the infastructure needs major upgrades to cope with the extra traffic, as the Childer’s/Dublin roads are at capacity.
@StephenC wrote:
True but to what end. Its not really suitable for largescale retail use. The competition it faces from other areas for this is considerable…think of Smithfield, Markets and Abbey, Marlborough, Talbot Streets. Residential would be problematic due to the large number of social housing estates off the street and the nature of the buildinsg along the street. There is lots of scope to the north of Pearse Street and this seems to be developing fast but its no help to Trinity.
Maybe so, but land values will increase as a result of the new Dev north of Pearse street etc, I think since the new development adjacent to Pearse station will be a fine example to further dev. on this street.
Worth mentioning the new Macken street bridge, which will also give Pearse street a more attractive location. I can’t see why Trinity wouldn’t make a risk in doing more with it’s piece of the Street.
I’m honing on a complete new topic on this street. 😀
The tacky post modern whachmocalleit buildings along the GPO till the Carlton
I’m aware, that the buildings that once stood here, were victorian and were pre twentieth century and probably replicate the opposite side of the street, where their is fine standing buildings. Sadly they are gone since they were destroyed in the 1916 rsing. Correct me if I’m wrong.Now my point is… will these buildings get a makeover or something, They are even beginning to look dirty, Afterall the street is looking a million dollars, with the new paving etc. the building’s especially on Henry street corner, are revolting.
Is there a plan to do something about them:rolleyes: . It’s a depressing heap of sh!te that seems to spread around most provincial towns etc… 🙁The building on Henry street corner, is detestful.
Rant over.
@MrX wrote:
Cork (and Limerick) cities have seriously tight boundries, much more so than Dublin. The fact that there’s development land close to the city centre wouldn’t actually improve the population statistics. There is practically no land available for development within the city council area that isn’t in some other sort of use. Even relatively close parts of the outskirts of Douglas are in County Cork.
The population decline’s purely a misrepresentation of raw statistics by news outlets.
As for Cork being near Shannon airport ? Where did you get that idea? There’s NO WAY you could link Cork to Shannon in 40 mins, even with 125 mph trians you’d be looking at over an hour.
It’s 75 miles / 120 KM suggesting that using Shannon would be even remotely accessible from Cork is a stretch of the imagination.
Shannon’s 86.6KM from Glaway (an hours drive) and only 20KM from Limerick. So, yes those two places do fall within its catchement area, although Galway’s highly marginal.
Also, Cork doesn’t just serve London… it has a huge range of direct destinations. All that shannon has is a couple of artificially created transatlantic routes which, when open skies happen may well disappear anyway with the end of the Stopover.
Directly serves:
Amsterdam Aer Lingus
Alicante Aer Lingus
Barcelona Aer Lingus
Belfast Aer Arann
Birmingham Aer Arann
Birmingham bmi baby
Bristol Aer Arann
Budapest Malev
Cardiff bmi baby
Dublin Aer Arann
Durham Tees Valley bmi baby
Edinburgh Aer Arann
Glasgow Loganair
Leeds Bradford Aer Arann
Liverpool Ryanair
London Gatwick Easyjet
London Heathrow Aer Lingus
London Stansted Ryanair
Malaga Aer Lingus
Manchester bmi baby
Munich Aer Lingus
Newcastle Jet2.com
Nice Aer Lingus
Paris Aer Lingus
Prague Czech Airlines
Rome Aer Lingus
Southampton Aer Arann
Warsaw Aer LingusAnd just added:
Gdansk – Wizz Air
Krakow – Central Wings
Wroclaw – Centarl Wings
Galway – Aer Arran
Leeds – Aer Arran
Birmingham – Aer Lingus
Berlin – Aer Lingus
Madrid – Aer Lingus
Prague – Aer Lingus
Lanzorate – Aer Lingus
Tenerife – Aer Lingus
Katwice – Wizz Air
Nantes – Aer Arran
Lorient – Aer ArranEasy Transatlatnic access via : LHR, Gatwick, Paris Charles de Gaul and Amsterdam — it takes less time than going via Dublin or Shannon over land!
As for the Cork population, it’s got a metro area approaching 300,000 people.
You’ll see the city’s core population starting to grow a little I think when some of these new docklands developments take off. The simple fact is that Cork city has very limited housing stock within the city bounds itself and what is there is either very mature corporation estates or extremely pricy inner suburbs that are out of the reach of your average first time buyer by a long shot.
I am not getting into the debate that Cork should lose its airport… Nevertheless, Shannon does seem to be more economically located than say, Cork due to greater access to the regions… It is a superb location between all the major centres, to be fair,
Aha mentioned that Tipperary commuters would op for Cork rather than Shannon, I highly doubt that. I would say 99.5% percent of North Tipperary people would use Shannon Airport, for the obvious reason it is closer and is bigger. Likewise, same way that south Tipperary would probably op for Cork as it’s to do with location, so it attracts more numbers from S.T. However, places like Clonmel and Waterford could easily choose to travel en route – Dublin or Shannon. There is not a big difference in mileage for the southeast to travel to any of the main Airports= Shannon, Cork and Dublin, if anything would be more direct going straight up the N24 imo. Alternatively, go to Dublin,
Overall, Shannon is in easy reach to all major centres, Cork is peripheral (edged) to urban centres. On the other hand, Cork does have a large Metro area to have an airport in its own right…, which is a good argument for Cork. Therefore, I think it would be a huge loss to the Cork region if it were to lose its airbase; I would be surprised if it ever happened.
The reality is it won’t happen; Don’t think it would occur to any one’s mind of the likelihood, even if Shannon had a super Airport connected with high speed lines to the cities.
Though, Speaking of Metro regions
Suburban population sprawl between the catchments of either Cork or Shannon airport… If we, take the example of where the most of the growth is happening. Which is Shannon. My reasons.
Look at the population explosion between Limerick and Galway in the last few years,
The population around the periphery of Shannon airport will be served by the local demands easily competing Cork, even when the stopover is axed, so to put it into another perspective. Population is growing faster within an hours drive from Shannon, than let’s say an hour’s drive from Cork and this trend will continue.Southern Galway population is in the catchments of Shannon Airport. Moreover, is growing quite fast and in the direction Of Shannon. In addition, swallowing up towns like Gort. The sprawl is just 35 minutes from Shannon. As we know, Limerick/Shannon is a hub with Shannon Airport located, so we know the Airport is part of the Metro. . So technically, you have two Metros that are approaching Shannon, though Galway on a lesser scale, as its region in its own right.
Cork Airport is closer to Cork, which is a plus, but in recent demography’s of the region, Cork is expanding in a northerly and easterly direction in recent years, more so than south where growth always concentrated around Bishopstown, Douglas, and Carrigaline etc. though there are growing, I’m just pointing out an aspect of change. With the recent upgrades like the Lee tunnel, and N8 upgrades etc, are partly the blame I’d imagine.
Therefore, Movement of Population would also determine the location of an airport.
It would be disastrous if Cork was given authority and status over Shannon IMO, if it came down to one airport. I.e. Cork being favoured as number 1, which I would strongly disagree.
You will have all the large urban centres travelling down to the far south. This would create more congestion and more problems, and wouldn’t make economical sense, so I can see some of Boyle Ideas.Look at the N18 corridor and you will see. The population distribution is obviously going to back up keeping Shannon in the long run. Now with the proposed rail link to the new Limerick to Ennis Line (eventually linking up with Galway by 2011- 2015) and the plans to upgrade the N18, this furthers that Shannon Airport is sustainable.
@CologneMike wrote:
Hello ShaneP. That’s the problem with the CSO Statistics for 2006, in that they can’t be compared yet like for like with 2002. As the townlands listed as Limerick Suburbs in the 2002 census were modified to give the real city population or unmodified as part of the county population. Therefore 99,872 would be too high as the townlands would yet have to be modified downwards to meet the city suburbs criteria. See my % breakdown of figures from 2002 census below.
See census 2002: http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/vol1_entire.pdf
2002 Limerick Suburbs (pt.)(b)
Ballycummin* (12,382) from (13,435) were classified as part of city suburbs. (92%)
Ballysimon* (8,380) from (9,675) were classified as part of city suburbs. (87%)
North Rural* (6,427) from (6,932) were classified as part of city suburbs. (93%)
South Rural* (959) from (980) were classified as part of city suburbs. (98%)
Roxborough* (544) from (1,678) were classified as part of city suburbs. (32%)
Ballyvarra* (432) from (3,740) were classified as part of city suburbs. (12%)
Ballyglass* (3,851) from (4,938) were classified as part of city suburbs. (78%)110,000 could be a more realistic figure within the boundary extension, as Tom Mackey (Limerick City Manager) in a Limerick Leader interview early last year talked of 100,000 population in the greater Limerick area. We have seen since quite a surge of European immigration into Ireland since then.
Hello Justnotbothered. We are in the year 2006, it amazes me how fixed the CSO and OSI are on using old historical townland names instead of the present day names to denote city suburbs! A lovely example is Shannon town in the 2006 Census! It does not appear under name of Shannon town but is denoted under the Ennis rural area as the townland of Clenagh with a population of 9,774!
Hello dave123.
Lisnagry / Annacotty could be either in Ballyvarra or Ballysimon?
Castletroy should be in Ballysimon.
Parteen should be in Ballyglass.
I would say a CSO figure would be lower than a figure of 99,000. See reply to ShaneP overhead.That can’t be right, since i remember god a few years back that the population of Castlwtroy ws eant t hit close to 35,000 by 2006. Just looking at the map there, Limerick is taking very little of Clare, and they are creating up roar over it, consider THE STATE OF PARTEEN etc.. roads and infastructure is disgusting. Though I would say the population of Limerick is well over 100,000 by now. That map is so bloody old to btw..
@CologneMike wrote:
I tried to compare the Census of 2002 with 2006. It is very difficult to compile the real population of Limerick city with the data from 2006. I wanted to apply the same list of suburbs (Townlands) as used in 2002. The problem lies into breaking down these townland populations into city suburbs or pure county areas. I have found the following Townlands (highlighted blue) on the OSI Map below: (051) Ballycummin, (052) Ballysimon, (053) Ballyvarra, (068) Roxborough and (106) Ballyglass / Clare.
Limerick City 2006 (52,560)
Limerick Suburbs 2006
051 Ballycummin (16,279) City Suburb (?)
052 Ballysimon (11,260) City Suburb (?)
053 Ballyvarra (4,139) City Suburb (?)
065 Limerick North Rural (7,248) City Suburb (?)
066 Limerick South Rural (1,423) City Suburb (?)
068 Roxborough (1,608) City Suburb (?)
106 Ballyglass (Clare) (5,355) City Suburb (?)Here a rant about place names (Townlands) used in maps but unknown in every day use!
The Central Statistics Office (CSO) makes an interesting note to their statistics regarding Townlands in Ordnance Survey maps (OSI). I have used The Limerick Street Map and two Discovery Series Maps (Limerick no. 65, Clare no. 58) to try to follow the CSO population trends in Limerick City. It’]Why?[/B]
Townlands
The enumeration of the census is organised, in the first instance, in townlands in rural areas and in streets in urban areas. The townland is the smallest territorial division and was formerly used for administrative purposes.
Population figures for townlands, of which there are about 51,000, were last published for the census of 1911. In many legally defined urban areas – Cities, and Towns – and in most other urban areas without legal boundaries it is no longer possible to compile townland population figures as building development has completely obliterated the physical features by which townland boundaries were originally defined on Ordnance Survey maps.Electoral Divisions (EDs)
The smallest administrative area for which population statistics are published is the Electoral Division (formerly called District Electoral Division). In rural areas each Electoral Division consists of an aggregation of entire townlands. There are 3,440 Electoral Divisions in the State and their populations are given in Table 4 of this publication.Great post…. Is Lisnagry and Annacotty and Castletroy mentioned? and Parteen? are they part of the total Limerick figure of 99,000, note that map is at least 9 years old…
@jdivision wrote:
Cork airport has been a joke for a decade. The new terminal building was badly needed. Shannon’s a hole and was only created for political reasons and despite getting every break going would be losing bucketloads of money if it wasn’t for the US troop landings. The fact that one of them is stopping next year has left it in the proverbial creek without a paddle. DAA can’t relinquish control of it because it’s incapable of standing on its own two feet.
LOL. Yeh it was Cork that was getting more money in the end, and CAUSED more debt for DAA not Shannon, ues shannon had debt but there were also a lot of money taken out of shannon at the same time, which causeed the monopoly at Dublin, which is why before EVER got into the equation Shannon wanted to run as a separate body, your right Cork airport is a joke….. US troop landings is getting a bit old. now since it’s leveling off, and threathned to be move elsewehere. Shannon had more problems going against it than Cork EVER had. Yet Shannon pulled through even with plummeting Transathlantic figues… In the end Shannon has it’s debts cleared.
@mickeydocs wrote:
Use of Cork airport is not just limited to people from Cork, lots of people from Munster much prefer using Cork rather than go to Dublin.
It would be interesting to compare passenger figures for Cork and Shannon if transatlantic flights were also allowed for Cork (as they will be in the not too distant future).
Cork had more passengers than Shannon in 2004, however this trend was reversed in 2005 because of the huge increase in passenger numbers at Shannon due to US Military using the base as a stopover on their way to Iraq.
Twist there mickeydocs, are you done with the polishing….:D
I bet it would since Transatlantic was the main player for Shannon, and due to open skies, American routes going to Dublin, and September 11 (don’t know exact figures but transatlantic hold more than half of all in and outbound flights at Shannon) plummeted. Only for Ryanair it would have being a very bad year for Shannon. While Cork was busy opening new routes to Europe,and I will even say that they did well considering…
Yes I will agree about Millitary passing through, but its still was static due to less Americans flying, so either way it was balancing.
Shannon over the years and done better finacially than Cork, DDA was more sympathic to Cork If I can remember.
Also I must say, It’s a new phenomenon for shannon to have European flights into the airport.
I think it would be better in the long run for many reasons to scrapp Cork airport and merge it into shannon. I can see how threathned the cork people are, but you don’t want to see the positive.
@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:
Newlands Cross is pretty bad & there are no plans to resolve it.
It will be the only remaining junction once the Naas Road Flyovers are finished (this September) & the Red Cow removed by 2008 …
It will be horrendous when not only the The Naas and M50 is upgraded but the entire N7/N8 which will be average 110Kph into a set of red lights and a busy junction! surely there is someone planning to do something about it.
Sdcc. are really make sponge cake out of the road network. they spends millions on the QBC through already conjested Naas road, but leave the rest of the Naas road in tatters including the Newlands junction:eek:
Is there any architects that could upload a photo of their ideal interchange at newlands cross?? just a suggestion.
Dunkettle give me a break. It’s not that bad the N25 underneath moves perfectly the roundabout itself has traffic lights of course but nothing worse than it’s made out to be. Afew free flowing slips added on all lefts will greatly ease congestion. Even putting a cloverleaf interchange would actually bring ever faster traffic hitthing the lee tunnel which will not help in the long run.
Red cow/. Parkway in Limerick, Kinsale is bad but it’s being upgraded at the momeent.. most of our roundwboute are bad, every new road with a junction is provided as one. why do we have these bloody things built everywhere these days. All the new ones on the old N7 between Monasterevin at Portlaoise. I’d rather automated traffic lights as the side roads are minimul in traffic and IMO are much safer than steep roundabouts on wide national routes.
There is no harm in having a few traffic lights here and there. Imagine Newlnads cross and Newcastle N4 getting roundabouts? which will not happen when the N4 and N7 will be upgraded.
Bedford row between Henry street is currently being revamped and changed into a new pedstrian street. Dunno about this being relevant to the thread, but there were plans for another new street near by. it’s on the Limerick thread a few pages back. Again don’t know the ins and outs of this since the new propasals for Arthurs quay has sparked interest.
@jimg wrote:
You’ve just described Shannon. I think they are trying to change it at the moment by building a “town centre” but that’s what was there the last time I visited the place,
I don’t know much about Shannon apar t from it being what it’s described above. The new SC is trying to change it but it seems to me it’s still shite… as it’s just replacing the mall. the Lidl store is still beside it, it’s bloody awful… I just hate the stupid idea of calling strategic malls town centres. it wrecks my head. like Liffy vally and Tallaght and the new Shannon town centre, they all consists of malls and retails sprawling ware houses.
A town centre should have a number of streets with a square with mixed developments that a town centre should have like residental,retail, commericial, industrial, recreational etc…
Wasn’t shannon a planned town to have at least 30,000 in it’s height. but it’s only around 11,000. The new shannon road is fantastic and has made the gateway into the town much more attractive.
@PoxyShamrok wrote:
Yes the buildings may be ugly but the majority of people in Limerick enjoy the shops that are in them and to get rid of the buildings they are in would damage the shops business and damage the city!
The plan is to rebuild them and possibly make them bigger, there at leasr a 10 acres of land left derelict and unused… that could be used etc… I don’t think the developers will delay the redevelopment. Some risks have to be taken in order to reap the benifets.
Take Dubai for example:rolleyes:
@PoxyShamrok wrote:
I hope that Arthurs Quay, the Dunnes Block and the Penneys/Burger King Buildings are here to stay for a long time!
Reality check, you have named some of the ugliest and most obstructive buildings that were ever built along with Borwn thomas, which have all being built around the same periods. It is crappy and cheap. Serioulsy are you for real?:eek: :confused: The red brick is kind of old and not cool at this stage too.
@PoxyShamrok wrote:
I have to admit I am quite fond of Arthurs Quay Shopping Centre and if they were to knock the Penneys Block they would be getting rid of Penneys Clock.
Ah why? Its not feasible or practical to keep it in it’s current state. I mean they would be better in the long run to knock and build a solid building with more spaces underground for car parking, thus with the demolition of the ugly Burger King too, this will allow a plaza or square this city has forever being wishing for! If this is the plan. There is a lot of unused space there including the opposite side at the tourist office area, it just not working anymore:(
If anything it should all get a total revamp and should be done to the highest standards, The building itself is just going to look out of place when the Opera centre comes on, so there is wise ideas coming through in this plan.
What does one think of a plaza at the type plan, at Arthurs quay centre, just big enough to fit the purpose and it wouldn’t need to be the size of Eyre square etc, just something distinctive and in charactor for this city? Great idea? This would be a diamond for this city, and give something that this city lacks a “centre” not on the edge where there is no footfall i e Arthur’s quay park.
I’m sure the developer would occaisonly browse these pages;)
@PoxyShamrok wrote:
To be honest i think its too much of a development and if it ever happens while the development is under construction it will be dreadful for the city! it will be just a huge building site!
Sure isn’t that what Ireland is at the moment? Dublin Docklands? Port tunnel? etc..
I’d put up with it, It would finally put the final piece of the city centre’s jigsaw together. This part of the city is and has been crying out for revamp,and IMO being neglected. Brown Thomas will have no choice once the plan is drawn up and finshed, bear in Mind the opera centre will be here too, Limerick will be a truly modern, central,clean and european look.:) Brown thomas is too ugly to stay.
I’m going to keep an eye out on the plan. It’s remarkable given the amount of revitilsation that is going on in this city at the moment.
@J.P wrote:
Great idea Mike. From above I love the way the Park would snake along the city streets something akin to Central Park in New York all be it a little smaller. Im sure the city could work out a solution to that segament of Edward Street being used by the park. Either the city takes on board your suggestion or Bus Eireann will finally cop on to what you suggested.
Since the Apartments have caused some controversy, It would be great for the Park to expand a little into the island part which is left idle. Out of bad come’s good:) The joining of this would create more people to come and that extra room to roam is perfect!!!!!
The road between the park is not needed much, if they widen the opposite side by a few metres it would meet the traffic demands, afterall it’s the cars we want to get rid of. also if it were expanded the shape would be quite distinctive.
Great idea btw…..
@justnotbothered wrote:
Has anyone seen the design for the proposed apartments by Thomond Bridge? Awful, absolutely awful. I think it’s a great idea to build the apartments and bring some life ot the area but these are incredibly ugly. Such potential on that site, it would be a shame to waste it.
Are you talking about the Domed roofs with grey cladding and bricks? just after thomond bridge heading out of the city. If I’m right I don’t think they look to bad.
The port land sell off will be very promising indeed, 100 of millions of Euro in value, let’s see if the plans turn out as good as it bargained for, Of course it would be exhilerating to have another tower soaring beside the Clarion and this would make Limerick a towering riverside metroplis with land values one of the highest in the country, who said property will be cheap in Limerick over the coming years..
