DARA H
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Compared to some of the super crap that came after them and their age – i think they;re not doing too bad at all.
At least the mosaics show some attention to detail.I could be wrong but… didn’t Calatrava say on one of his visits over here that the Harp on the back of one of our coins helped to ‘inspire’ his design of the Macken St. bridge.
Maybe he was half telling the truth – the harp inspired him to pick theat particular standard type of bridge from his portfolio?!I was very happy myself and very suprised too that the scheme has got the go ahead. I’m especially happy as it will serve a major train station – public transport tying into high intensity uses and all that crack! (Guess my profession?!)
I also think its a nice design and could prove a good contrast to Liberty Hall – in fact, maybe between the Liberty Hall, the Georges Quay? buildings and the Tara St. proposal that Dublin could end up with an interesting cluster of different buildings in that location. (as long as dublin doesn;t end up with reams of c.60m only buildings on one side of the river to match in ways the clusters of c.5 storey (squat) only buildings on the other side)!
We may even get that ‘gateway’ effect on the Liffey that the arhcitects mentioned i.e. between the Liberty and tara st blocks.Greg F… Please! leave the poor loopline alone! Its not the prettiest of bridges but (and i’ll add my own subjective opinion here) i think it is interesting as a bridge, giving a bit of variation from the predomently stone, large bridges in the city centre – its very much of its time and i think even its covering of singage has something to say for itself – i.e. just showing that its part of a busy city and is moving along with it. also, I wouldn;t want to fill the city with Calatravas’ and, as i think i’ve said here before – i have some reservations about inserting more than one large cable stay type bridge in a low-rise and narrow river city like Dublin.
just for proper comparison sake, the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff is located in Cardiff city centre and is 2-300m down the street from Cardiff’s main train station and bus station. and of course, it can count on its huge (population) neighbour England to attend games i.e. arrive by train and bus (there is also a civic/ adminsitrative district area within walking distance of the city centre where dozens of coaches park for the really big events).
Of course this can mean that you can get an influx of ‘yobbos’ coming into the city but i only saw problems like that twice in my year there.What documents are you refering to kenny when you say that planning dept.s are advocating ‘twee architecture’ for towns & villages?
It is important to note that planning authorities (and i presume you mean through development control when you infer plannings influence on design) cannot force people builders etc to produce well designed & or modern/ stylish houseing.
Another thing to consider is that its easier to keep most people happy with a twee style house i.e. ‘Vicwardian’ ‘Tudorbethan’ ! then with very modern & contemporary units.
Housing & planning authorities however, do often try & produce good quality public housing nowadays – generally not cutting edge, but a cut above your average pattern book pastiche housing estate.
Did you see the article in last weeks IRL. times property supplement about a new modern looking, housing scheme for Dublin city council – in Cherrybrook i think, & by a firm of architects.Pre-planning meetings between planning departments & architects (and skilled technicians etc)to find out departments attitudes to modern designs in different sites could be a way of achieving more modern looking developments – i’d say a lot of planners would be happy with this too (if they can spare enough time!?).
p.s. how is it that you are a senior member after only 12 posts?!?
[This message has been edited by DARA H (edited 10 May 2002).]
It looks quite impressive, but i’d say more because of its scale then its design….i’m sure that i have seen something very, very similar in Britain – i just can’t think of where! Still, a couple of statements here and there would’nt hurt.
Devil in the detail…
Would i be the only person that thinks that the traffic lights plonked right in front of the building looks pretty awful & cheap? I think even a simple measure such as painting the grey pole in a gloss, black paint would make it look more visually palitable in its position. An all-black pole/lights may even look like an interesting ‘oddity’ set as it is in front an (all white)contrasting building. This gallery is meant to be ‘national’ building so, the protection/ enhancement of its appearence should not stop at its front door.[This message has been edited by DARA H (edited 03 April 2002).]
Nope, didn’t know about Winey Mass etc but thanks for assuming i did!
Nothing wrong with being critical and nothing wrong with importing foreign styles, adds to interest and diversity, possible new ideas if mixed with the vernacular and so on.Ummm, so ‘pop architecture’ is the name of one of the types of architecture i like then. Nice to get a name to it. Would i be wrong in presuming that ‘pop’ is better then, ‘pastiche’ architecture?
Thinking back to some nasty looking, partially gable-fronted offices & appartments i’ve seen, and similar ‘Vicwardian’ and ‘Tudorbethan’ houses, i’d think so myself. What is the other Netherlands arhcitecture – MVRDV – your talking about MK?[This message has been edited by DARA H (edited 07 March 2002).]
I have to say, i really liked this building when i saw it myself. I particularly like the colours and shapes used in the structure and even the way it sits comfortably with the large railings to the front. I noticed when i was in the Netherlands last year that many of their very contemporary buildings used different coulors and materials to great effect – i think it lends buildings a more organic, less bulky and more interesting appearence – if that makes sense! i.e. i don;t see why very modern buildings more often then not seem to comprise of one colour, material, and are very boxy/ bulky. I suppose Le Courbousier style modernist – nice, but not all the time. Is think the type of (modern)architecture i like, and i think this building is, is what Shane O’ Toole refered to a ‘slow modern’.
As a matter of interest, there is a small and quite old cemetery in the the middle of Boston city centre – it was strange to see an antiquated graveyard sandwiched in between many very large buildings. Of course, being an american city there really wasn’t much else man made that was particularly old which added to the strangeness.
Blain,
I presume your talking about the ‘Residential Density Guidlines, 1999’ by the Dept. of Environment. I had to do a bit of research on densities myself & i can tell you that some county councils etc. especially in the country, did not seem to see them as relevant to them, some did not really seem to be farmiliar with them & one planner told me (from a more rural council) that they pretty had much binned the guidelines & went on as before (i’m not sure that this was by their choice though). Some councils i.e. Dublin region ones, would be a lot more familiar with them & at try to a least have regard for them. On the ‘other side’… Developers and architects etc. will sometimes quote parts of the guidlines to support their proposals. Some professionals are unaware of the document.
As to the effect the guidelines are having… I think maybe they brought the possibllity of higher densities into the development arena but seeing as bog-standard, cul-de-sac, semi-d/ detached housing estates are still the residential developments of choice (of developers & pretty much the public too – the quiet cul-de-sac suburban ideal – which isn’t so bad as long as you have a car) notmuch has really changed. Still, there seem to be more duplexes about!
One planner lamented to me twice during a conversation about higher densities that they were ‘still wating for the design’ i.e. good design, that are required for higher densities and this is mentioned specifically in the guidelines.
I had thought myself that this question might be worthy of starting a new topic – do people thing that standards of design have improved in higher density developments since the guidelines came out???Jack, why did you include ‘the environment’ as one of the areas of expertise of architects. Surely, you can’t be claiming that architects are somehow environmetal experts too? (unless, do you mean within building envelopes).
Well, i had an opportunity to see the place on Thursday and now that i;ve seen it with my own two eyes, the place seems not too bad. On closer inspection the cladding isn’t quite as plain as i was expecting and the whole structure was not as ‘blocky’ as i was expecting either.
Approaching from Grafton Street end, i liked the view of pyrimid?-shaped rooflights on one part of the structure.
Was inclined to give the place a thumbs neutral to a thumbs down – now i think i’ll give it a thumbs neutral to a thumbs up.
People interested in this topic might be interested in the Greenwich Millenium ‘Village’ on the Greenwich Peninsula in London – yes the place where the millenium Dome is located.
Greenwich village is a British ‘Urban Village’ concept that is not meant specifically to be ‘sustainable’ but they do make a better crack at it then most developments.
Green vill. plans: – 6,500 workers, 7,500 residents, high residential densities, 80% reduction in primary energy consumption, 50% reduction in embodied energy, 30% reduction in water usage and construction waste, cycle lanes, new very large ‘Tube’ station, new large bus station , CHP (combined heat and power) for the village element for water heating and space heating in homes as well as electricity generation)
12,000 trees planted etc, etc,Ummm, not sure about that building at all. There’s really not much to it is there. Simplicity in general can be beautiful but it is hard to pull it off in Modernist/ minimalist architecture. I also wonder how it will wear in the future. The problem with minimalist architecture it seems to me is, is that once they’ve lost their ‘pristiness’ they look even worse then an ordinary dirty building because you know they are meant to be super clean for the effect (e.g. all white Modernist buildings). On top of that, once they’ve lost their ‘clean, big, blank surfaces’ which is one of their features all you’re left with is Dirty, big, blank walls’.
I think that’s why classical-style architecture was popular c.2, 000 years ago and is still popular today – because there is detail and decoration to look at and admire. No matter what culture or time period you look at jewelry (a form of decoration) has never gone out of fashion. Its as human condition, people like ‘stuff’ to look at to engage their interest.
Minimalist architecture is at times fashionable but they go out of fashion and, as often as not are enduring/interesting enough in detail or form.
Even a manky dirty Victorian or Classical-style buildings have their details such as decorative stonework or brickwork to look at underneath grime and pollution.
Some modern architecture like busaras or the Guggenheim do look good and have details i.e. colours and shapes that can engage the eye from a distance and close up.From what I can see from the photo of the library there is not a particularly interesting form/shape and no colour or decoration either. At least the slit windows break up the façade a bit – I think if it was all blank facing into Nassau street it would really be a disaster. It’s a shame really that the building appears the way it does behind what is an impressive stone wall & decorative iron railings. I don’t think the tourists will be too impressed. Maybe if even the slit window’s glass were different colours e.g. one red, the next navy etc. so that at least as you approach they become apparent and they might look o.k. contrasted to the white of the façade to make it a little more interesting. I’ll reserve my last judgement until I’ve seen the finished product with my own eyes though.
P.S. brevity was never my strongpoint.
I passed by this builing recently and i thought it looked odd but kind of nice and impressive. Not sure it will look quite so hot if it is allowed to become black with grime.
I hope that the bottom right corner of the facade as seen on the photo above uses a lot of glazing ‘cos i think it would be a nice contrast to the rest of the building. If it were all plainish wall like what can be seen now however, it would look as if a box had been dropped into the terrace which would not look very nice streetwise.[This message has been edited by DARA H (edited 25 September 2001).]
I’m looking forward to the bridge going ahead, it should look very impresive ( as a one – off).
Suprised it didn’t get a little more coverage – just a tiny article in the Irish Times and the 9 o’clock news didnt exactly give much detail i.e. a good picture of what it would look like on-site, its actual size or comparison to neighbouring buildings and, how many lanes etc. Is there going to be provision for bikes lanes, public transport???
Will it become a new benchmark for height of new buildings, will developers etc say things in the future like “x new building proposed will only be one storey higher than the Macken st. Bridge”? It is meant to be as tall as Liberty Hall isn’t it? Will the bridge encourage higher buildings along the quays?
RE: James’s 2nd post.
Yes, i think i must be the ‘plonker’ who sent the email (unsigned) about Smithfield!!!!!
There is no need to be insulting really, i thought i had sent a fairly well reasoned letter to you on my thoughts. My name was not important to my arguments/comments. I did not include my name for two reasons 1. One of my relations is in your organisation so, i don’t want to cause them any hassle because of the views of myself, and i don’t want to argue with them. 2. I’m not really in the postion (job) were i want my opinions to be known either way.At least now i know the letter was read, no matter how dismisivly. I also remember that like Paul above, i suggested that your organisation might not seem such a party pooper if it did things like laud builings that it thougth were good e.g. the ‘Green’ Fingal Co.Co. offices in Swords or something anyway, to shed a more positve light on your organisation.
On the whole though, i fully support the aims of An Taisce (as long as it is reasonable in its pursuance of its aims e.g. not objecting to a building solely because it is a floor taller than its older neighbour).
All the best,
DARA ‘the plonker’ H!!
[This message has been edited by DARA H (edited 03 July 2001).]
