Forum Replies Created

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Author
  • in reply to: Shopfront race to the bottom #776305

    @davidarthurs wrote:

    The idea that ‘oh its the recession’ doesn’t hold water if the streets and surrounding streets are dragged down as so clearly has happened in O’Connell Street and surrounding streets like Westmoreland Street and is being allowed to spread out as a general policy.

    Perhaps a group should get together to report illegal banners to avoid the problems of reports coming from an individual.

    I’d be generally interested in what the Councils reply is to as to why they aren’t enforcing things, and allowing banners to run amock across the city.
    Saw a big banner in Rathgar covering Superquinn only yesterday.

    That’s a good idea. We could start a blog to catalog (with pictures, much like has been done here) each offending shopfront on O’Connell Street and Westmoreland St, update each post with a copy of all correspondence with DCC, and then do quarterly updates on what exactly has improved/disimproved/stayed the same. It could even be fun.

    in reply to: The Park, Carrickmines #739480

    I missed this until now!

    Irish Times Monday, May 17, 2010


    Carrickmines designation case in court


    A direction by Minister for the Environment John Gormley overturning the designation of The Park Village lands in Carrickmines as a “district centre” will cost 1,500 jobs if it is not quashed, a developer has claimed before the Commercial Court.

    Tristor Ltd, which wants to develop the Park Village as a district centre, is seeking leave to challenge the Minister’s decision in judicial review proceedings before the Commercial Court. Tristor claims the failure to designate the lands as sought will cost some 700 jobs in construction of the scheme and another 800 jobs in the completed scheme.

    The proceedings were transferred to that court’s list today by Mr Justice Peter Kelly who directed that the leave application be heard with the full judicial review proceedings in a telescoped hearing on July 27th.

    Tristor, with registered offices at the Herbert Building, The Park, Carrickmines, has brought the action against the Minister, Dún Laoghaire Rathdown County Council, Ireland and the Attorney General.

    It wants an order overturning the Minister’s direction, issued to the Council on March 9th 2010, to delete the Council’s earlier decision designating and zoning the Park lands at Carrickmines as a district centre in the council’s draft development plan 2010-2016.

    The Minister instructed the council to delete the “village centre” designation and to revert to the previous zoning objective of the Dún Laoghaire Co Development Plan 2004-2010 – a “neighbourhood centre” development at Carrickmines to provide for economic development and employment.

    A neighbourhoood centre designation allows for a considerably lower level of retail floorspace than a district centre and involves a development of small groups of small shops of a local nature serving a small, localised catchment population.

    Tristor owns some 3.14 hectares of lands at The Park Village, and those lands make up the majority of the designated lands with a lettable retail space of some 25,000 square metres. It secured planning permisison in April 2008 from the council for a mixed-use development on those lands of some 88,790 square metres of mixed, retail, office, leisure and residential uses.

    It secured that permission around the same time as the council began its review of the earlier development plan. Tristor claims its planning permission cannot be implemented until the dispute over the Minister’s decision is resolved. It claims some 1,500 jobs are threatened and, while a major retail anchor tenant is already committed to its proposed village development, other potential tenants are refusing to commit because of the uncertainty.

    in reply to: The Park, Carrickmines #739464


    Proposed district centre at Carrickmines, by Henry J Lyons Architects

    Dublin site plan more complex than crony capitalism


    Plans for two competing shopping centres in the south of the county are at the heart of a dispute between councillors and the Minister

    IT HAS been described by Ciarán Cuffe, the new Minister of State in charge of planning, as an example of “crony capitalism” and a reversion to the highly-questionable rezoning practices of the 1980s.

    But the determination of a majority of councillors in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown to upgrade a site in Carrickmines – owned by Michael Cotter’s Park Developments – from neighbourhood to district centre status is a more complex story about where new shopping facilities should be located.

    The Park in Carrickmines is a large housing scheme developed over several years, which already has a “retail park” with the usual range of outlets, but no supermarket to serve the estimated 18,000 people living in the catchment area, which includes Ballyogan, Glenamuck, Kilternan and Stepaside.

    Park Developments got an uncontested planning permission in 2008 to develop a neighbourhood centre at The Park, consisting of a supermarket and a small number of ancillary retail outlets as well as almost 300 apartments. It also has approval for a major office scheme, of which two block are already built.

    In 2008, after Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council published its latest draft development plan, Park Developments and Tesco made submissions requesting that the neighbourhood centre should be upgraded to district centre status, given that the planned population of its catchment is put at 35,000.

    The initial response from the planners – in an August 2008 report to the council by county manager Owen Keegan – was quite open. They recommended that the council should “reassess possible reclassification within the retail hierarchy of Cherrywood, Sandyford Business Estate and Carrickmines”.

    Later, however, the planners recommended that no change be made to the existing neighbourhood centre zoning at The Park. Their rationale was that, if it was reclassified as a district centre, it would take business away from the proposed district centre at Cherrywood, where the council itself has an interest.

    The “new town” planned for Cherrywood is embryonic at this stage. Like Carrickmines, it has a projected population of 35,000. But unlike Carrickmines, there are very few people living there so far. The biggest landowner is Dunloe Ewart, which is controlled by Liam Carroll, the now debt-laden property developer.

    Last July, Mr Keegan said in a High Court affidavit that the county council was very concerned that the €57 million it had put into a 1997 joint venture agreement with Mr Carroll’s companies to develop the Cherrywood lands for a science and technology park was “in jeopardy” because of their insolvency.

    “One would assume from those publicly expressed concerns that the reality is that the council knows full well that there is absolutely no possibility of any significant development of any kind happening out in Cherrywood for a very long time,” said Tim Crowley, project director for Park Developments.

    Noting that Cherrywood had been designated as a strategic development zone (SDZ), he forecasted that it could be up to eight years before this planning process would be completed – as had happened in Adamstown, near Lucan.

    It was thus a long-term project compared to The Park in Carrickmines.

    But Mr Cuffe strongly defended Cherrywood, saying a huge public investment had already gone into providing infrastructure there, including a new terminus for the Sandyford Luas line. “Now is the time to make it happen, not to threaten its viability with another shopping centre a mile down the road.”

    To him, the site in Carrickmines “bears an uncanny resemblance to Liffey Valley in terms of its location at the edge of where people are living, rather than in the heart of a community”. By contrast, the proposed Cherrywood district centre was “very well-placed in terms of its future population”, he said.

    A spokesman for Minister for the Environment John Gormley, who directed Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown councillors to reverse their rezoning decision on Carrickmines, speculated that the development of Cherrywood would be “top of the list for development” when it falls into the hands of Nama.

    Planning consultant John Spain, who advises Park Developments, said “there was a concern [in the Department of the Environment] that councillors were acting against the manager’s advice.

    “But the planning rationale for ministerial intervention is not there, because this is not an ‘out-of-town’ shopping centre.”

    Tesco obviously sees the value of having a large supermarket at The Park, given its location in a relatively affluent catchment area.

    Under the deal it has signed with Park Developments, the British-owned multiple would contribute €70 million to the construction costs in return for becoming the anchor store.

    Mr Crowley said that the proposed centre had been “consistently supported” by Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Independent councillors on the basis that it was “entirely sustainable in planning terms” and that schemes of this kind “in the midst of large areas of new housing” were in line with the Greater Dublin Area retail strategy.

    He noted that councillors from both the Green Party and the Labour had, in contrast, voted against the inclusion of a district centre at Cherrywood in the 2004 Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Development Plan and had also previously voted against the Dundrum Town Centre, which opened in 2005.

    In terms of public transport access, The Park at Carrickmines would be served by the Ballyogan Woods stop on the extended Sandyford Luas line, which would be located some 200 metres from the proposed district centre. Cherrywood would be better served by Luas, with a stop directly in front of its proposed centre.

    To avoid a further confrontation with Mr Gormley, the councillors who support the Carrickmines rezoning have proposed capping the size of the proposed centre at 20,000sq metres (215,280sq ft), rather than the 25,000sq metres (269,100sq ft) originally proposed.

    It remains to be seen whether this will satisfy the Minister.

    in reply to: The Park, Carrickmines #739463

    Thebig C, if you were referring to me when talking about people who are against new development and highrise then I just want to let you know that nothing could be further from the truth.

    Carrickmines is an awful development that no one would want to live beside or walk around. Sticking extra retail out there, to compete with the already struggling retailers in our local villages makes zero sense.

    I would much rather see Cherrywood developed as an SDZ. Would it not be better to create a high density neighbourhood for 30,000 people or more, with the shops within walking distance. FG and FF are trying to take the shops of this potential neighbourhood, and stick them over in Carrickmines instead.

    For what reason? A few jobs. Penny wise and pound poor.

    in reply to: The Park, Carrickmines #739451

    Hutton I completely agree with you.

    Just on the behaviour of Fine Gael councillors, I really don’t hold any political allegiances but I’ve recently been noticing some really bad stuff going on.

    Here is shocking stuff from one of the pro-Carrickmines zoners above, John Bailey (FG), and his daughter Maria Bailey (FG).

    Donations had ‘no bearing’ on planning decision, says FG councillor

    John Bailey says planning objection ‘went missing’
    Mark Hilliard
    Janury 24, 2010

    (Image added so you’ll know which faces not to vote for at next election!)

    A FINE Gael councillor said that thousands of euro in donations from two companies behind a controversial development had no bearing on his failure to object to its go-ahead.

    John Bailey told voters he had objected to An Bord Pleanála over the controversial redevelopment of the old Dun Laoghaire Golf Club, but the appeals body later confirmed it had received no such correspondence.

    It has since been revealed that Bailey, who sits on Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown Council with his daughter Maria, received financial donations from both the developers in question and its estate agent ahead of his unsuccessful 2007 general election bid.

    Bailey said he now accepted his objection had gone missing, but that when contacted by the Sunday Tribune, he re-sent the documents as an observation. The deadline has passed for objections. “These things can happen in the post but it’s most unusual,” he said.

    Bailey also enclosed a new submission cheque but said his bank was still looking into whether or not the initial one to An Bord Pleanála had ever been cashed.

    Cosgrave Developments and Hooke & McDonald, both of whom are behind the contentious development, gave Bailey donations of €2,500 each ahead of the general election.

    However, he denied that this in any way compromised or affected his ability to object to the project.

    “I am totally independent and totally impartial. I am there to represent people,” he said. “Everybody has to do fundraising for the elections. I have never shirked from whatever I have had to say. I am not bought or beholden to anybody.”

    Bailey was unclear as to whether he had sought the donations directly or whether he had been approached by the companies.

    “I can’t tell you off the top of my head but you do whatever you can during elections,” he said.

    Bailey circulated leaflets to around 100 constituents, local to the golf course site, stating that he had filed the objection to An Bord Pleanála.

    The objections would also have been also flawed in that Bailey made reference to two separate planning applications in the letter, which has been seen by the Sunday Tribune. Such a move is prohibited by An Bord Pleanála rules. “If I did that I made an error,” he previously conceded.

    The plans for one of the two developments in question is still with the local authority and so an appeal to An Bord Pleanála was premature.

    The development currently before the board relates to 605 residential units on the site off the Glenageary Road Upper and Eglinton Park, Dun Laoghaire. The application, still with the council, refers to a separate but related development at the old bowls club.

    I have more examples but I don’t want to get too off topic.

    Back to Carrickmines. I have been reading back through other articles over the past month about the rezoning. Here is one where Ciaran Cuffe gives some reasons why zoning Carrickmines is contrary to good planning.

    Minister stresses importance of new town before vote on rezoning


    Monday, April 12, 2010

    PROPOSALS TO develop a new town at Cherrywood, south Dublin, are to be brought to Government within weeks, the Minister for Sustainable Transport and Planning has said.

    Green Party Minister Ciarán Cuffe said the proposals would ensure proper facilities would be developed side by side with homes and businesses at Cherrywood, a 361-hectare site between the M50 and the N11.

    He made his announcement before a controversial rezoning motion comes before Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council today to reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood and increase it at Carrickmines, also off the M50.

    If the motion, tabled by six councillors, is passed, it will initiate a variation of the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council Development Plan. It will also countermand an order by Minister for the Environment John Gormley not to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines.

    Mr Cuffe said yesterday that developer-led zonings were running the danger of undermining millions of euros in infrastructure investment and the creation of thousands of new jobs over the next decade.

    He said the Strategic Development Zone (SDZ), the planning framework that will create the new town at Cherrywood, would provide the bedrock for sustainable economic development and job-creation. It would also allow for fast-tracked planning.

    Mr Cuffe said the new town, when fully developed over 10 years, would provide 12,500 homes and 18,000 jobs.

    “The proper infrastructure – including a new Luas line with five stops in Cherrywood which will open later this year – has been put in place. It has the potential to create a vibrant, dynamic new town in south Dublin.”

    He was concerned the SDZ would be undermined by the Carrickmines motion, on which councillors will vote today.

    “I have deep concerns that, because of the employment situation in Ireland at present, councillors and politicians are falling victim to the old claim of jobs being promised as long as a zoning takes place,” he said.

    “Trading a zoning for a promise is not good planning and is consistent with past practices of light-touch regulation and pure and simple cronyism that got our country into its present difficulties.”

    Councillors have also come under pressure from the developers of both Carrickmines and Cherrywood, who wrote to them on Friday.

    The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, has promised 800 jobs, a “guaranteed” anchor tenant as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

    The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, has threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it has already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.

    At this moment, all I can say is thank god we have a Green as Minister for Environment to stop these braindeads from destroying south county Dublin.

    Just who are our councillors working in the interests of? I would like to see if any of the councillors listed by Hutton have received donations from Park Developments. As I pointed out, John Bailey has previous in that kind of thing.

    in reply to: The Park, Carrickmines #739449

    This caught my attention today


    Rebels pass D18 shops rezone plan
    By Maeve Galvin

    Wednesday April 14 2010

    COUNCILLORS have defied the Environment Minister in moving to rezone a shopping centre development in Carrickmines.

    The move to extend the retail development at The Park, which is just off the M50, goes against the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council’s development plan, which was signed off on last Thursday.

    Following a debate at last night’s council meeting, councillors passed the motion to vary the development plan and provide for a district centre by 15 votes to 13.

    This flies in the face of Environment Minister John Gormley’s orders last month that directed the council not to rezone the Carrickmines land.

    Several councillors spoke out against the move. Labour councillor Richard Humphreys, a barrister, told the chamber that the move “wasn’t a lawful motion”.

    He said: “There is a legal obligation to comply with the minister’s regulation.

    “In addition this would undermine the Cherrywood development and negatively impact on this council’s interests. I feel that it would be ludicrous and making a mockery of this council for us to pass this.”

    Fine Gael’s Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward, John Bailey and Maria Bailey, and independent councillor Gearoid O’Keeffe put forward the motion, which aims to extend the retail land in Dublin 18 by 10,000sqm.

    It also proposes to reduce the retail land at the Cherrywood development by the same amount.

    Proposers of the motion said that they had been approached by developers who want to put in amenities such as a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant, which would create 800 jobs.

    Councillor Jim O’Leary said that the move was in the interest of creating jobs for the county.

    Council management now plans to seek legal advice and report back to the council on the issue.


    Council votes to rezone land at Carrickmines for retail

    COUNCILLORS IN south Dublin have voted to begin a variation to rezone land for retail development in Carrickmines despite a ministerial order directing them not to increase retail in the area.

    Minister for the Environment John Gormley directed councillors on Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council not to rezone land at The Park, Carrickmines, off the M50, to increase its retail space when they created their county development plan last month.

    Councillors complied with the Minister’s direction order, but yesterday, following a heated debate, they voted to effectively overturn it.

    Fine Gael councillors Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward and John and Maria Bailey, along with Independent councillor Gearóid O’Keeffe, tabled the motion to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines by 10,000 sq m and simultaneously reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood, also off the M50, by 10,000 sq m.

    Councillors had come under pressure from developers at both centres.

    The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, had promised 800 jobs and a “guaranteed” anchor tenant, as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

    The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, had threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it had already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.

    Speaking in defence of the motion, Cllr Tom Joyce said he had been contacted by a delegation of business people who said they would like to put in a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant at The Park.

    “These people are ready to start operations immediately,” he said.

    He believed the development was sustainable.

    Cllr Jim O’Leary questioned why Mr Gormley “interfered” in the county development plan.

    Cllr Barry Ward put on the record that he was “beholden to no one”. He was satisfied rezoning Carrickmines was the right thing to do.

    However, Labour councillor Aidan Culhane said the motion was “utterly shocking and appalling”. It was a plan to build another shopping centre on the side of a motorway. “I find it staggering that councillors would do this . . . in Carrickmines of all places after all it’s been through in planning terms.”

    His Labour colleague, Cllr Denis O’Callaghan, said he detected “a palpable smugness, arrogance and contempt” for the work carried out by the council in the last two years.

    Cllr Richard Humphreys said there was a legal obligation to comply with the Minister’s order and increasing retail at Carrickmines would “emasculate” Cherrywood and damage the financial interests of the council, which owns some land at Cherrywood.

    Cllr Victor Boyhan said whatever councillors did the Minister would invoke his powers under the legislation and was entitled to do so.

    Councillors voted 15 to 13 to accept the motion.

    County manager Owen Keegan said he would take legal advice about the decision, and return to councillors with a report on how they could proceed with the steps to vary the development plan.

    I don’t know what to make of this situation!

    I can’t understand why the council would be looking to change their own development plan, which is only a week old!

    What is to be gained by zoning in Carrickmines (Google Map)? Is it not the antithesis of proper sustainable development. The Luas will run near by but the whole area has been designed for the motorcar. There’s a time and a place for retail parks, but I really don’t think Dublin needs any more of them right now!

    Considering that in the past year DLR councillors have re-opened Dun Laoghaire main street to cars in a bid to help the struggling businesses there, the fact that they are now looking to zone new out-of-town retailing doesn’t make sense. And it’s not just Dun Laoghaire; Sandyford and Stillorgan are in an awful state commercially as well.

    On top of all this, these councillors are trying to push development at Carrickmines at the cost of Cherrywood (Google Map), which apparently is a project that the council itself has an investment in.

    I watched a little bit of the debate (video here) and I did not see anybody in favour of the Development Plan contravention speak about the urban design or sustainability merits of the proposal. The attitude seemed to be that we should zone it because there’s a few jobs in it.

    I’d love to hear some opinions on this. Particularly on Cherrywood VS Carrickmines.

    in reply to: Dublin Airport Metro to have unconnected terminus? #749701

    @constat wrote:

    Don’t know if many of you have been on the Washington DC subway…..lots of bare concrete on certain lines, I wouldn’t call it ugly though!

    I’ve used that subway a few times and its great! It would be lovely to have large spacious stations like there (http://community.iexplore.com/photos/journal_photos/metro-3.jpg), however it seems our stations will be more tube-like (platform in tunnel).

    It can sound a bit silly asking for more spacious and attractive stations when we so desperately need the infrastructure to be put in place, but this line will last for 100 years and it would be nice to have no regrets about how we designed it. We’re not poor!

    @shamrockmetro wrote:

    and in the uk they spend 800 million pounds on one station…

    Exactly. Also in NY the new transport hub at ground zero will be something special. Grand projects like these can improve the reputation of the whole system.

    in reply to: Dublin Airport Metro to have unconnected terminus? #749692

    @Cute Panda wrote:

    The purpose of mass transit is to move people from points A to wherever they want to go in a fast and reliable manner. They do not exist to provide an aesthetic experience. Once the thing does the job who give a toss.

    Surely one of the ultimate aims of building the metro is to persuade people to use public transport rather than the private car. With this aim in mind it makes sense to spend a few bob making the stations nice places to be rather than cheap or shabby looking.

    I think that it seems likely that the stations will end up like the boardwalk – full of junkies and bums.

    in reply to: Vertigo? U2 tower to be taller #750578


    Ok point taken. I misunderstood the accusation, sorry.

    There are no daytime renderings of what the energy center will look like on the inside, do you feel it will take away from the attractiveness of the building? Does anyone know of any examples built elsewhere with such a large proportion of its height donated to turbines?

    am I mad or do i remember an energy center located at the top of the Freedom Tower in New York as it was originally proposed?

    in reply to: Vertigo? U2 tower to be taller #750575

    What did he doctor? The image he used is on this page: http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/cbd/1cbd4MCO.htm

    It’s #039

    A quick google and you’d have seen it. How about we stick to attacking architecture rather than each other, eh?

    in reply to: Dublin Airport Metro to have unconnected terminus? #749640
    PVC King wrote:
    Lets not get distracted The Airport Metro will connect to nothing other than Luas or the Maynooth Line]

    Maybe I’ve misunderstood you but:

    The airport metro will connect to both Luas lines, the interconnector (Hazelhatch – Malahide line) at Stephens Green, the Bray – Maynooth line at Drumcondra, and Metro West at Ballymun.

    Its true that it doesn’t go directly to any of the mainline stations, but at the end of the day, its only 1 change away from the commuter/mainline stations, i.e. Heuston, Connolly and Spencer Dock.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)

Latest News