Forum Replies Created
Look it’ll be years and years til built but I hope this gets planning now. Its a start if/when things do pick up.
anyone have any info on developments that have some chance of getting of the the ground in the next 12-18 months in this area such as ocp andersons quay site and albert quay or the two sites across from city quarter?anyone know either what ever happened to treasury holdings plans for a site on patricks quay(next to penrose wharf) or plans for water st next to kent station, that was a bad refusal at the time that could of been a kick start for the docklands. any one hear did anyone bat an eyelid in dublin recently when there was calls for kent station to be finally redeveloped? this really is the project to get the docklands off the ground and im surprised ocp have not been involved in trying to develope the site as he does genuinely seem to have an affection for developing in his home city and the site has massive potential if turned around to face the river to incorperate a station square (as seen in previous plans) and could be the iceing on the cake for him personally when he retires!
Just a slight clarification – the development you talk of by Penrose Wharf was called the Treasury Building but had nothing to do with those charming, polite and all round nice guys, Messrs Barret and Ronan of Treasury Holdings. It was a proposed Kenny Homes development.
From today’s Examiner….
“Planning green light for bridges set to kick-start Cork Docklands project
By Eoin English
Thursday, April 15, 2010
PLANNING is expected to be granted today for three bridges over the River Lee to help kick-start one of the stateâ€™s most ambitious regeneration projects.
An Bord PleanÃ¡la is expected to give the green light for the bridges â€“ one of which will be the largest swing bridge in Europe â€“ as well as the development of several major roads to facilitate the multibillion-euro revamp of the cityâ€™s 166-hectare docklands.
The decision comes almost two years after Cork City Council submitted its plans for the iconic Eastern Gateway bridge, linking Tivoli and the south docks, the Water Street bridge and the so-called spine roads, including Centre Park Road and Monaghan Road.
The board held three oral hearings in December after the Port of Cork objected to certain aspects of the bridge plans.
The cityâ€™s Lord Mayor, Dara Murphy, said he understands todayâ€™s decision will be positive. “The time has come now for the Government to fully back this major infrastructural project, which is not just critical for the greater Metropolitan Cork region but for the country as a whole. We donâ€™t expect a cheque this year but we must be looking at this over the next three to five years as the country moves out of recession.”
An economic study on the benefits of Government investment in public infrastructure in Cork Docklands showed that the regeneration could create 15,000 jobs and generate â‚¬610m per annum for the greater Cork metropolitan region.
Most of the infrastructure was priced several years ago â€“ the Eastern Gateway Bridge had a price tag of â‚¬80m â€“ and it is hoped that certain savings could be made.
Several major docklands planning applications have been lodged recently, including for the redevelopment of the R&H Hall site and the Topaz site.
It is hoped securing planning permission for the public infrastructure today will give certainty to landowners considering projects.
City manager Joe Gavin said about 20% of what is planned for the docklands can proceed without the infrastructure, but credit must begin to flow again. He said despite the current economic conditions, planning applications are still being processed so that projects are ready to go when the economy picks up.
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, April 15, 2010
Yeah, a lot of the businesses in the airport business park really should be in the city / docklands eg. Amazon, Citco, Hibernian, etc. I thought there was some rule that you can only get planning for headquarter operations in the city centre? Wasn’t there a lot of controversy on this issue viz the Rev Comms move to Blackpool?
If you had these sized operations in the city centre it would greatly improve the post work atmosphere on weekday evenings (the city is a ghost town from 6pm to 9pm most nights), would lead to more city living and would in turn better justify Cork’s claim to have light rail etc.
I read on another forum that ACC also provided the funding for the building to start with.
Think that is right having researched it.
Would this be the same council that reputedly sold Navigation House to Owen O’ Callaghan with the proviso that he provide a multi storey car park so the city hall workers and councillors can park for free?
That is a class of joined up thinking I suppose (however lamentable)!
I see something is being done on Seveso sites in the Finance Bill (see below). While I’m no fan of this Government, and whilst you would like to see action on tax incentives and infrastructure, is the Seveso issue the most pressing and is this measure enough to keep (get?) things moving in the docklands? Would be interested in hearing views.
Tax incentive a step to kick-starting docklands
By Eoin English
A TAX incentive scheme announced in the budget has been described as a small step towards kick-starting the multi-billion regeneration of Corkâ€™s docklands.
But opposition parties and business leaders demanded further action and commitments from the Government to get the ambitious project, which has the potential to create thousands of construction jobs, off the ground.
Cork Chamber also criticised the fact that State supports for a crucial piece of infrastructure â€” the Eastern Gateway Bridge designed to open up the south docks â€” were not included in the budget.
Cork City Council has drafted ambitious plans for the transformation of the 400-acre docklands region site into a waterfront urban quarter with thousands of apartments, offices, hotels and an events centre.
The Cork Docklands Forum, set up by the Government last year and chaired by former UCC president Professor Gerry Wrixon, has said the Exchequer should fund hundreds of millions of euro worth of infrastructure, including bridges and roads, to kickstart the development.
Its report said the potential of the project â€” the biggest proposal since the International Financial Services Centre in Dublin 20 years ago â€” is huge.
However, developers have baulked at paying the cost of basic infrastructure to the area. And much of the docklands is unusable because it has been occupied for decades by oil tanks and other high-risk operations â€” so-called Seveso sites.
Finance Minister Brian Lenihan announced plans yesterday to introduce a new tax incentive scheme to facilitate the relocation of Seveso sites.
There are three such sites in Corkâ€™s Docklands owned by Topaz Energy, the National Oil Reserve Agency and Gouldings Fertilisers.
â€œThis scheme will be subject to clearance by the European Commission from a state aidâ€™s perspective,â€ said Mr Lenihan.
The Docklands Forum said offering grants to these companies to move operations would not breach EU state aid rules.
Cork Chamber chief executive Conor Healy welcomed the Seveso move but said a whole range of further measures are needed.
â€œWe would hope to see additional support in the Finance Bill,â€ he said.
Fine Gaelâ€™s innovation spokesperson Deirdre Clune described Mr Lenihanâ€™s announcement â€œas the one bright spot in an otherwise bleak and bad budget for everyone in the countryâ€.
â€œOne obstacle holding up the docklands project has been removed and that is good news,â€ she said.
Fine Gael senator Jerry Buttimer said he is disappointed that there was no clear commitment to funding the overall docklands project.
â€œThis was promised before previous budgets and has not been delivered,â€ he said.
â€œThe Seveso tax incentive is a small step and is subject to approval from Brussels.â€
What’s the latest on the Howard Holdings application for the Arena etc? Surely a decision is due soon?
i was just in the elysian for a look, the 1 beds are a bit cramped but the others are fabulous – prob still a little pricey but the show apartments are seriously good especially the dual aspect for 545k and ones in the tower for 1.35m – if you have that kind of money why not
Which of the two are you shelling out for Pugmeister me old china? Or are you buying one of each.
Isn’t the Atlantic Quarter planning decision due from Cork City Council today ?
Anyone any news on this?
The Health and Safety Authority submission states:
â€œOn the basis of the information the Cork City council has supplied to the HSA, and the information obtained from Alleyquay Investments Ltd. the HSA ADVISES AGAINST the grant of planning in the context of major accident hazardâ€
(capital letters as above used in HSA submission)
As I understand it this Seveso situation will only really be sorted out once the City (or County?) Council nominates some poor god forsaken place as the future location for Seveso developments. Is this right?
Think we are at cross purposes. When I say rail I mean light rail and trams (ie. Luas types). What I am not in favour of is these glorified buses that are described as bus-trams. They are buses full stop in my opinion. These aren’t what you find in eastern europe methinks.
The tram bus things are unlikely to work, because to make proper use of them you need at least a skeleton cheap version of tram infrastructure. I.e. you need longer bus bays, adaptation of junctions to avoid turning problems, bus lanes, automatic ticketing and ticket spot checks (to allow use of rear doors and avoid queues of people buying/validating tickets on-board).
I can pretty much guarantee that Bus Ã‰ireann are unlikely to do anything beyond use bustrams as higher capacity buses, either through lack of will on their part, or no resources for them to follow through even if they like the idea of the above (admittedly, despite not regarding BÃ‰ that highly, I would suggest they probably would like them to work and would like proper infrastructure, but aren’t going to get it). Bustrams would therefore have much longer and more problematic loading/unloading at stops and so will probably result in a degradation of service (although on routes where people are left behind at stops currently they may give people a journey at the expense of travel time overall).
Thanks for clarifying that. Glad to hear it too, Bus trams will not work. If people have rail they will ditch their car for it (or at least many will). Buses, no matter how frequent etc, can never achieve the same level of use. Call it a snob thing or whatever but i think that’s a well proven fact the world over that rail/trams attract far more users than bus. I suppose the reliability of journey time and departure time is the key thing.
Rather scary alright that that whole article in the Examiner with quotes galore from City Hall makes no reference, even long term, to light rail.
Didn’t John “Without Bertie’s kind offer of a Mercedes I’d be nothing” Gormley and his cohorts claim to have negotiated into the programme for government something about studies into light rail in Cork (and Galway?) within a year (?) of taking office? Any news on that? I’d say John Gormley will pull the plug on the Government if it is not done in time as he is all for principles and wouldn’t put keeping his own Merc (or Prius presumably) ahead of any other consideration. Not his style at all.
Incidentally, didn’t Gormley look lovely perched there behind Bertie the Hounded when Bertie gave us his “I’ve done the State some service” speech? Dan Boyle is going to have some fun explaining that image to Green voters in Cork South Central come the next election.
I would vote for it. Anyone want to start such a party!
@Saucy Jack wrote:
Remarkably quiet on the Cork Docklands tax designation missing from the budget also.
I’ll say it again, we get what we vote for. Equally, we don’t really give out enough. If Limerick was due to get something in the budget and didn’t get it there would be marches. I didn’t see anything about the omission of the tax breaks until the Cork Independent yesterday (which in fairness has a good editorial line). The Examiner and Dublin press didn’t utter a word.Leesider wrote:stop fighting over a decision that’s not due til 2nd Nov and answer my questions ]
Leesider not sure if this is any help but the Kenny group is splitting up with Paul Kenny taking the cork business. I suspect this is the delay at treasury building. I doubt commencement is imminent.
And how can that get permission if their last application was premature in not tying in with Kent station redevelopment?
In law, a case taken can be struck out at its very beginning if it is frivilous and vexatious. Is there such a concept as a frivilous and vexacious Planning Application? If so, we are looking at one.
Anybody who didn’t know the (very well organised) Cork City Marathon wasn’t going on needs more help than the City Council can give them!![/QUOTE]
I agree in general with your post but specifically re the marathon, while it was indeed superbly organised, I do think the publicity was poor. As I said, I ran in it and I remember that when seeking sponsorship the week before it less than half the people I encountered knew it was on. Moreover most of them had only just heard of it. If you want a big field in a marathon you need big publicity months in advance as you can’t just turn up on the day and give it a lash. I know its much bigger, but the Dublin marathon in October is widely publicised from March onwards every year.
I know its not stricly about developments in the city (more the use we put them to) but am I the only person very frustrated at the City Council’s record on
a) organising, and
City Centre events?
By way of example of the former, Limerick City council has garnered lots of (badly needed) publicity for that city by putting up big screens last year for the European rugby final and this year for the All Ireland hurling final. Thousands attended and thus the city centre got a more tangible financial benefit also (not to mention that the populace, whom a city centre should serve, were delighted with the set up). For a city that can virtually set its watch by its regular appearance in (of not results of!) such finals, it beggars belief that we in Cork don’t offer our populace a similar facility. Indeed this is all the more galling as the necessary big screens and crowd control barriers would have to put up the day after the match anyway for the traditional homecoming. Nor is this idle speculation. When Cork were going for the hurling 3-in-a-row last year I e-mailed lots of addresses in the City Council (I got the addresses off their website) urging such a set up. In fairness the Lord Mayor and two individuals (an events manager was one I think) replied saying what a great idea it was, how they had to hire the big screens for 3 days anyway so there was no extra cost, etc, etc. Of course the day came and went without anybody doing anything more and that seems to me to be typical.
What frustrates me even more is that when the Council does pull the finger out and does organise anything (ie. city marathon, ceili mor, ocean to city race, European car free events, etc) there is virtually no publicity for same which in turn means they risk being flops (or at a minimum are not the huge successes they should be). Indeed I suspect the lack of turn out at some such events (which itself is entirely the by product of City Council laziness) is used by some in the same City Council to justify not putting on further such events as “nobody bothers to go to them like”.
By way of illustration, for the ceili mor event earlier this month, I am told there were loads of stalls in town on the sunday but there was no one at them – largely because no one knew they were there! Similarly there was a huge crowd on Patrick’s St at the marathon last June but speaking to many of the crowd there they just happened upon it and had never heard it was on! In fact for the city marathon they had 1,600 running the full course but over half of these were last minute entrants. The City Council couldn’t figure out why – could it be that no one knew about it? I ran in it and from the blank expressions I got in the weeks running up to it when I mentioned the race to people thats what I would put my money on.
In short, my sense is that within City Council there are people now thinking properly about how to use civic spaces (hence all the new events) but they are totally let down by the publicity arm (is there such a thing?) of City Hall. There is no point putting on an event if you don’t tell anyone about it. Moreover the City Coucil still lacks the drive to set up really large, all inclusive, Civic events to showcase the city as evidenced by the big screen example above and even more so by the shameful decision last year to hold the Freedom of the City event for Roy Keane and Sonia O’Sullivan behind close doors.