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  • in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773488
    apelles
    Participant

    Another excellent piece of video here from the highly informative Andrew Graham-Dixon…In this one hes managed to wangle his way into the Sistine Chapel of all places…How did he manage that?

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773487
    apelles
    Participant

    NEWS UPDATES FROM ST. MEL’S

    15th January 2010 – 3 weeks on from the Christmas Day Fire

    Staff from the National Museum of Ireland continue to sift through the debris from the Museum and have found various pieces in differing states of preservation. Among items recovered so far are the 13th Century copper Crozier from Limoges in France; the Wheery Bell originally found near the ruins of a monastery in Ferbane in Co. Offaly; and the Shrine of the Book of Fenagh which dates back to 1536. These have been cleaned and removed for safekeeping by the Museum staff. They will continue to search for other items over the weeks ahead. Work is ongoing at ensuring that all internal walls are sufficiently supported and in due course a temporary covering will be put in place to roof the Cathedral and protect the inside from the elements.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773486
    apelles
    Participant

    Letter from Bishop Colm

    To the Priests and People of Ardagh & Clonmacnois

    The fire that destroyed all but the portico, bell-tower and main walls of St Mel’s Cathedral has caused material damage which is, at this time, inestimable. The loss of so much of our Diocesan heritage is truly beyond the scope of any form of calculation. The pain caused by this tragic event is like a dagger in the heart of the Diocesan family. It has brought grief to many outside this circle too as is testified by the great volume of correspondence in the form of letters, emails, text messages and telephone calls that have come to Father Tom Healy Adm and to me. I want to add that some of the very kind messages received came from minsters of other faith communities, especially the Church of Ireland and the Methodists.

    I am now writing the kind of letter that I never dreamt I would need to write. I must do so, since I wear a ring that Cardinal Tomás Ó Fiaich placed on my finger as a reminder that for my time as Bishop I am bound to the Diocesan family in a bond that, like marriage, is for good times and bad. I write this letter to acknowledge that we must stay together in this time of sorrow and bewilderment. I also write to bring some solace to the many who are quite truly heart-broken.
    Firstly however, I must advert to the death of my predecessor, Cardinal Cahal B. Daly. He heard of the fire on Christmas Day and had left a message for me to return his call as soon as possible. I say with great sadness that hearing of the full extent of the damage done left him shattered. There is every likelihood that this news hastened his end. May his prayer for us help us through difficult days ahead and may the Lord reward him for his life of generous service, fifteen years of which were lived here.

    Since Christmas morning the priority for the priests and pastoral team in Longford has been provision of suitable accommodation for the needs of the Parish community. This is now being put together in a way that will be satisfactory for the time required to achieve the restoration of the cathedral. The cooperation of certain bodies has been readily forthcoming to enable us to make these provisions. I want to recognise the excellent level of support given to the Church by the Local Authority. I must acknowledge, in particular, the manner in which the Principal of St Mel’s College has cooperated with us in offering to make the School’s facilities available.

    When the Gardaí completed their investigations into the cause of the fire, they declared it to be accidental. No precise cause for the fire has been identified as yet. Furthermore, I would like to add that all renovations and all ongoing maintenance on the fabric of the cathedral were carried out to the very best standards. The care with which the sacristan carried out his duties has been meticulous beyond praise. Whatever may have caused the fire let no one attach blame to the faithful stewards of St Mel’s Cathedral.

    Once some degree of normality has been restored to the life of the Parish here in Longford it will be necessary to commence the serious work of planning for the restoration of our cathedral. I want to repeat in this letter the commitment that I have made as early as Christmas Day. St Mel’s Cathedral must be restored. To do otherwise would be unthinkable. Looking at the front of the cathedral now we still see its “grand portico”, the iconic image well known to local people, visitors and passing traffic since its completion in 1893. I consider that we are blessed in the fact that the Cathedral façade looks as it did before the fire. I believe this view will continue to call us to press on with the work of restoration. No one can say how long that work will take but the best calculation suggests five years or so.

    The main walls of the Cathedral are generally solid and safe. However, when restored its interior will inevitably have to look somewhat different from what we knew and admired so much. Yet I believe that its neoclassical elegance need not be lost. St. Mel’s Cathedral was the flagship of Irish cathedrals in its time and can again show the way forward in this new time when the Church seeks to be renewed and restored.

    I write now to seek the support of the entire Diocese as we face a challenging task in the coming years. All that I am hearing about the reaction of people throughout the Diocese inspires confidence in me and gives great hope. You will be kept informed about the next steps that must be taken and more specific suggestions for ways in which the support we need can be given expression. I would expect that people with good judgment in design and in liturgical correctness will make constructive suggestions about what will be planned. Most importantly I ask for your prayers that we may all have the strength and the courage to face the future with hope.

    Yours sincerely in Christ,

    + Colm O’Reilly
    Bishop of Ardagh & Clonmacnois

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773476
    apelles
    Participant

    My thoughts & prayers at this time are for the people of Haiti.. the terrible images on the news showing the devastation of the earthquake & the suffering of so many people.

    It makes ones concern about the restoring of a cathedral in Longford seem quite insignificant & futile…

    Port-au-Prince Cathedral before the earthquake:

    After the earthquake:

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773475
    apelles
    Participant

    San Crisogono is a Basilica in Trastevere dedicated to the martyr St. Chrysogonus.

    The church was one of the tituli, the first parish churches of Rome, known as the Titulus Chrysogoni. It was probably built in the 4th century under Pope Sylvester I (314–335), rebuilt in the 12th century and again by Giovanni Battista Soria, funded by Scipione Borghese, in the early 17th century. The tower dates from the 12th century rebuilding. The interior of the present church is the result of the rebuilding in the 1620’s of the 12th century church. The 22 granite columns are ancient. The floor is Cosmatesque, but most of it is hidden by the pews.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuppini/2448242821/

    The confessio in the sanctuary area is from the 8th century. The high altar is from 1127, with a baldachino from 1627 by Gian Lorenzo Bernini. The painting in the middle of the Baroque coffered ceiling is by Gian Francesco Barbieri, and depicts the Glory of Saint Chrysogonus. It may be a copy, in which case the original was taken to London, but it might also be vice versa. On the left side of the nave is the shrine of St Anna Maria Taigi. She was buried here in the habit of a tertiary of the Trinitarians. You can see some of her belongings in the adjacent monastery, where they are kept as relics.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimfore…7612694892485/

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773468
    apelles
    Participant

    Some more on Santo Spirito Florence.

    The current church was constructed over the pre-existing ruins of an Augustinian convent from the 13th century, destroyed by a fire in 1471. Filippo Brunelleschi began designs for the new building as early as 1428. After his death in 1446, the works were carried on by his followers Antonio Manetti, Giovanni da Gaiole, and Salvi d’Andrea; the latter was also responsible for the construction of the cupola.

    The Angel

    Unlike S. Lorenzo, where Brunelleschi’s ideas were thwarted, here, his ideas were carried through with some degree of fidelity, at least in the ground plan and up to the level of the arcades.[1] The Latin cross plan is so designed to maximize the legibility of the grid. The contrast between nave and transept that caused such difficulty at S. Lorenzo was here also avoided. The side chapels, in the form of niches all the same size (forty in all), run along the entire perimeter of the space.

    The Nave

    Brunelleschi’s facade was never built and left blank. In 1489, a sacristy was built to the left of the building and a door was opened up in a chapel to make the connection to the church. Designed by Simone del Pollaiolo, it has an octagonal plan. A Baroque baldachin with polychrome marbles was added by Giovanni Battista Caccini and Gherardo Silvani) over the high altar, in 1601. The church remained undecorated until the 18th century, when the walls were plastered. The inner façade is by Salvi d’Andrea, and has still the original glass window with the Pentecost designed by Pietro Perugino. The bell tower (1503) was designed by Baccio d’Agnolo.

    Thanks to Pincio for this info.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773463
    apelles
    Participant

    Another stunning building bishop William O’Higgins must of seen & admired is Sant’Andrea della Valle.

    Sant’Andrea della Valle is a basilica church in Rome, in the rione of Sant’Eustachio. It was initially planned when Donna Costanza Piccolomini d’Aragona, duchess of Amalfi and descendant of the family of Pope Pius II, bequeathed her palace and the adjacent church of San Sebastiano in central Rome to the Theatine order for construction of a new church. Since Amalfi’s patron was Saint Andrew, the church was planned in his honor. Work initially started around 1590 under the designs of Giacomo della Porta and Pier Paolo Olivieri, and under the patronage of Cardinal Gesualdo. With the prior patron’s death, direction of the church passed to Cardinal Alessandro Peretti di Montalto, nephew of Sixtus V. By 1608, and banked by the then enormous endowment of over 150 thousand gold scudi, work restarted anew with a more grandiose plans mainly by Carlo Maderno.

    ArtWorks

    The interior structure of the church was finally completed by 1650, with additional touches added by Francesco Grimaldi. The fresco decoration of Sant’Andrea’s dome was one of the largest commissions of its day. The work was disputed by two Carracci pupils, Giovanni Lanfranco and Domenichino. In 1608, Lanfranco had been chosen by Cardinal Alessandro, but the Ludovisi papacy of Pope Gregory XV favored the Bolognese Domenichino. In the end, both artists were employed, although Lanfranco’s lavish dome decoration (completed 1627) set the model for such decorations for the following decades. The Lancellotti Chapel, the first on the right was designed by Carlo Fontana in 1670, while the sculptural marble relief depicting Angel Urges Sacred Family to Flee to Egypt (1675) is work of Antonio Raggi. The second Strozzi Chapel has a Pietà, Leah and Rachele (1616) copies in bronze by Gregorio De Rossi from originals by Michelangelo. In the right transept is the Chapel of S.Andrea Avellino with Death of a Saint (1625) by Giovanni Lanfranco who also frescoed the impressive Glory of Paradise [1625-28] in the cupola, with figures by the evangelists in the spandrels (1621-8) by his rival, Domenichino.

    The Nave

    The presbytery decoration is by Alessandro Algardi. In the apse half-dome the History of Sant’Andrea and Virtues are frescoed by Domenichino. In the apse walls are a Crucifixion, Martyrdom and burial of Sant’Andrea by Mattia Preti (1650-1651). In the left transept, the Chapel of S.Gaetano Thiene has statues of Abundance and Wisdom by Giulio Tadolini. Over the entrance to the left circular chapel is the tomb of Pius II (1475) finished by a follower of the Andrea Bregno. In the third chapel on the left “S.Sebastiano” (1614) by Giovanni De Vecchi, while the second chapel houses the tomb Giovanni Della Casa, author of Il Galateo. In the first chapel is an Assumption and a Lucia collects the body of S. Sebastiano by Passignano. In the niches to right is a statue of Santa Marta (1629) by Francesco Mochi and San Giovanni Evangelista by Ambrogio Buonvicino. The Baroque facade was added between 1655 and 1663 by Carlo Rainaldi, at the expense of Cardinal Francesco Peretti di Montalto, nephew of Alessandro.

    Details of the ceiling

    In the church are present the cenotaphs of popes Pius II and Pius III, whose corpses are buried somewhere in the church. In 1650, Mattia Preti painted three frescoes regarding the martyrdom of Andrew with his Crucifixion in the center[3] in the apse, as commissioned by Donna Olimpia, sister in law of Pope Innocent X. The church contains a Saint John the Baptist by Pietro Bernini (Gianlorenzo Bernini’s father). Plan of the basilica.The first act of the opera Tosca by Puccini is set in Sant’Andrea della Valle. However, the Cappella Attavanti used was a poetic invention. The Cardinal Priest of the Titulus S. Andreae Apostoli de Valle is Giovanni Canestri. Sant’Andrea della Valle later became a model for the construction of other churches like the St.Kajetan church in Munich. On the square in front of the church stands now the fountain of Carlo Maderno, placed until 1937 at the center of the destroyed Piazza Scossacavalli in Borgo.

    The ceiling, frescoed by Domenichino

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773462
    apelles
    Participant

    Lets go back to the beginning & have a look at the buildings that are said to have greatly influenced St.Mel’s in the first place. In the conception of his plans for the cathedral, it is said that Bishop O’Higgins was inspired by the Madeleine Church in Paris, the Pantheon in Rome and St. John Lateran’s plus many of the other great basilicas of Rome.
    It took 53 years, three bishops O’Higgins, Kilduff & Woodlock & three Architects, John Benjamin Keane, John Bourke, & George C. Ashlin..
    Keane from Dublin had already worked on the St. Marys Pro Cathedral, Christ Church, Gorey, Co. Wexford, Church of St. Francis Xavier , Gardiner street upper, Dublin, St Patrick’s Church, Ballyshannon & this is St. Mary’s Church Irishtown, Clonmel Co. Tipperary.

    St. Mary’s interestingly was also completed by Bourke with a portico by Ashlin …Its now seams plausible that Ashlin was also responsible for the some of the interior furnishings at St. Mel’s & may have even employed Oppenheimer for mosaic works to the floors.

    The Madeleine , Paris.

    The Madeleine is built in the Neo-Classical style and was inspired by the Maison Carrée at Nîmes, one of the best-preserved of all Roman temples. Its fifty-two Corinthian columns, each 20 metres high, are carried around the entire building. The pediment sculpture of the Last Judgment is by Lemaire, and the church’s bronze doors bear reliefs representing the Ten Commandments.

    Inside, the church has a single nave with three domes over wide arched bays, lavishly gilded in a decor inspired as much by Roman baths as by Renaissance artists. At the rear of the church, above the high altar, stands a statue by Charles Marochetti depicting St Mary Magdalene being carried up to heaven by two angels. The half-dome above the altar is frescoed by Jules-Claude Ziegler, entitled The History of Christianity, showing the key figures in the Christian religion with — a sign of its Second Empire date — Napoleon occupying center stage.

    The main influence from the Pantheon here must have been the Portico.

    The building was originally approached by a flight of steps. The ground level in the surrounding area has risen considerably since antiquity.

    The pediment was decorated with relief sculpture, probably of gilded bronze. Holes marking the location of clamps which held the sculpture suggest that its design was likely an eagle within a wreath; ribbons extended from the wreath into the corners of the pediment.

    The Pantheon’s porch was originally designed for monolithic granite columns with shafts 50 Roman feet tall (weighing about 100 tons) and capitals 10 Roman feet tall in the Corinthian order. The taller porch would have hidden the second pediment visible on the intermediate block. Instead, the builders made many awkward adjustments in order to use shafts 40 Roman feet tall and capitals 8 Roman feet tall. The substitution probably resulted from logistical difficulties at some stage in the process: the grey granite columns actually used in the Pantheon’s pronaos were quarried at Mons Claudianus in Egypt’s eastern mountains. Each was 39 feet (12 m) tall, five feet (1.5 m) in diameter, and 60 tons in weight. These were dragged more than 100 km from the quarry to the river on wooden sledges. They were floated by barge down the Nile when the river was high and transferred to vessels to cross the Mediterranean to the Roman port of Ostia where they were transferred back onto barges and up the Tiber to Rome. After being unloaded near the Mausoleum of Augustus, the Pantheon was still about 700 meters away.

    In the walls at the back of the portico were niches, probably for statues of Caesar, Augustus and Agrippa, or for the Capitoline Triad, or another set of gods.

    The large bronze doors to the cella, once plated with gold, are ancient but not original to the Pantheon. The current doors—too small for the door frame—have been there since at least the 15th century

    Basilica of St. John Lateran

    An apse lined with mosaics and open to the air still preserves the memory of one of the most famous halls of the ancient palace, the “Triclinium” of Pope Leo III, which was the state banqueting hall. The existing structure (illustration, below left) is not ancient, but it is possible that some portions of the original mosaics have been preserved in the three-part mosaic of its niche: in the centre Christ gives their mission to the Apostles, on the left he gives the keys to St. Sylvester and the Labarum to Constantine, while on the right St. Peter gives the papal stole to Leo III and the standard to Charlemagne.
    Apse depicting mosaics from the Triclinium of Pope Leo III in the ancient Lateran Palace.

    Some few remains of the original buildings may still be traced in the city walls outside the Gate of St. John, and a large wall decorated with paintings was uncovered in the eighteenth century within the basilica itself, behind the Lancellotti Chapel. A few traces of older buildings also came to light during the excavations made in 1880, when the work of extending the apse was in progress, but nothing was published of real value or importance.

    A great many donations from the popes and other benefactors to the basilica are recorded in the Liber Pontificalis, and its splendour at an early period was such that it became known as the “Basilica Aurea”, or Golden Basilica. This splendour drew upon it the attack of the Vandals, who stripped it of all its treasures. Pope Leo I restored it around 460, and it was again restored by Pope Hadrian, but in 897 it was almost totally destroyed by an earthquake— ab altari usque ad portas cecidit “it collapsed from the altar to the doors”— damage so extensive that it was difficult to trace the lines of the old building, but these were in the main respected and the new building was of the same dimensions as the old. This second church lasted for four hundred years and then burned in 1308. It was rebuilt by Pope Clement V and Pope John XXII, only to be burned down once more in 1360, but again rebuilt by Pope Urban V.

    Through these various vicissitudes the basilica retained its ancient form, being divided by rows of columns into aisles, and having in front a peristyle surrounded by colonnades with a fountain in the middle, the conventional Late Antique format that was also followed by the old St Peter’s. The façade had three windows, and was embellished with a mosaic representing Christ, the Saviour of the World. The porticoes were frescoed, probably not earlier than the twelfth century, commemorating the Roman fleet under Vespasian, the taking of Jerusalem, the Baptism of the Emperor Constantine and his “Donation” of the Papal States to the Church. Inside the basilica the columns no doubt ran, as in all other basilicas of the same date, the whole length of the church from east to west, but at one of the rebuildings, probably that which was carried out by Clement V, the feature of a transverse nave was introduced, imitated no doubt from the one which had been added, long before this, at Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls. Probably at this time the church was enlarged.

    Some portions of the older buildings still survive. Among them the pavement of medieval Cosmatesque work, and the statues of St. Peter and Saint Paul, now in the cloisters. The graceful baldacchino over the high altar, which looks so utterly out of place in its present surroundings, dates from 1369. The stercoraria, or throne of red marble on which the popes sat, is now in the Vatican Museums. It owes its unsavory name to the anthem sung at the papal enthronement, “De stercore erigens pauperem” (“lifting up the poor out of the dunghill”, from Psalm 112).

    From the fifth century there were seven oratories surrounding the basilica. These before long were incorporated in the church. The devotion of visiting these oratories, which held its ground all through the medieval period, gave rise to the similar devotion of the seven altars, still common in many churches of Rome and elsewhere.
    Alessandro Galilei’s façade.

    Of the façade by Alessandro Galilei (1735), the cliché assessment has ever been that it is the façade of a palace, not of a church. Galilei’s front, which is a screen across the older front creating a narthex or vestibule, does express the nave and double aisles of the basilica, which required a central bay wider than the rest of the sequence; Galilei provided it, without abandoning the range of identical arch-headed openings, by extending the central window by flanking columns that support the arch, in the familiar Serlian motif. By bringing the central bay forward very slightly, and capping it with a pediment that breaks into the roof balustrade, Galilei provides an entrance doorway on a more-than-colossal scale, framed in the paired colossal Corinthian pilasters that tie together the façade in the manner introduced at Michelangelo’s palace on the Campidoglio.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773454
    apelles
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Do not even think about it. The destruction of this church was a black comedy of errors even to the extent that the idiot in charge could not find the keys to let in the fire brigade when it arrived.

    Longford deserves better that this. Start thinking in terms of the Frauendom in Dresden.

    Dear oh dear..of course the Diocese of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise deserves better that this. I probably didn’t make myself clear enough in that this is just an example of the kind of thing that could happen & has happened. If you take your eye off the ball, things can go horribly wrong…certainly.. not I, or anyone I know, would like to see this kind of thing in Longford.
    ….(Down with this sort of thing)

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773449
    apelles
    Participant

    Lets have a look at another cathedral where something similar happened in 1996..Only here it was arson.

    St Patrick’s Catholic Cathedral Parramatta, Australia.

    In 1792 five Catholic lay people (four men and one woman) who were resident in Parramatta petitioned Governor Philip to appoint a priest to minister to them and in 1803 it was announced by Governor King that Fr James Dixon was to fill the role. The first Mass in Parramatta was celebrated by Fr Dixon on 15 May 1803, but his appointment was revoked after the “Vinegar Hill Rebellion” at Castle Hill in 1804.

    Fr John Joseph Therry arrived in Parramatta in 1820 and set about obtaining a grant of land for a Catholic church, while establishing Australia’s first Catholic school in Hunter Street, Parramatta. In 1836 the foundation stone for a church was laid by Bishop Polding, the building being opened in 1837. In 1854 a new church was commissioned, based on a design by A.W.N. Pugin, although the tower was not completed until 1880, with the spire following in 1883.

    In 1936 the building was totally rebuilt to accommodate a larger congregation, although the Pugin-designed tower and spire were retained. With the growth of western Sydney the Diocese of Parramatta was created and in 1986 St Patrick’s was designated a Cathedral.

    The first organ in St Patrick’s was built in 1852 by J.C. Bishop, of London, for St Benedict’s Broadway – it possessed two manuals and 12 stops. It served St Benedict’s until 1892 when it was installed at St Patrick’s by Charles Richardson. This rare instrument survived largely in original condition until the early 1960s, when vandals removed much of its metal pipework, resulting in the instrument’s dispersal. In 1981 St Patrick’s acquired yet another second-hand organ, this time from the Grand Masonic Lodge in Castlereagh Street, Sydney. Built in 1923 by Holroyd & Edwards, of Sydney, the organ (of two manuals and 10 speaking stops) had been electrified in 1970 by Pitchford & Garside, who also undertook some tonal modifications.

    St Patrick’s was gutted in a fire that was set by an arsonist on 19 February 1996 and the Holroyd & Edwards instrument was totally destroyed. There began a lengthy process to raise funds and develop designs for the rebuilding of the 1936 church (to serve as the Blessed Sacrament Chapel) and the provision of a modern new cathedral to adjoin it. The state government provided a multi-million dollar grant to assist the project. The firm of Mitchell, Giurgola and Thorp (best known for its design of Parliament House in Canberra) was successful in being awarded the design contract and the completed building was opened on 29 November 2003. The Pope’s special envoy for the occasion, Cardinal Edward Cassidy, presided at the Mass.

    The old church is no longer used for regular masses. A modern structure has been built beside it. Still called St Patrick’s Cathedral, this is where regular church services are being held.


    I’m unable to find any photos of the original interior of St. Patrick’s, but I’m sure it was way better than whats there now.

    The fire at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Parramatta (Australia) in February 1996 left only the exterior walls standing.The property damage came to US$ 4.3m.The arsonist was arrested the very next day after the inferno.
    It was only when flames were seen shooting through the roof that the fire was discovered. By this time the cathedral was beyond saving, because just ten minutes later the entire roof was ablaze.
    In spite of the massive fire-fighting effort – involving six teams on the ground and two aerial units – it was only possible to prevent the flames from spreading to a neighboring school.The cathedral burnt down to its exterior walls.
    As the spire was threatening to collapse, fire fighters and construction workers removed parts of the structure that very night.The following day, the police succeeded in tracing a 21-year-old man who during the subsequent questioning confessed to starting the fires in the church. Previous fires in the vicinity of the church were also his work.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773444
    apelles
    Participant

    @james1852 wrote:

    REPOSTED PHOTOS as previous were not that clear.

    Thanks their way better.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773442
    apelles
    Participant

    Terrific Stuff James1852… My goodness look at the gap distance between the planks on the scaffolding up top..no safe-pass course’s back in 1925 then!

    Ties & overalls…Brilliant…Of the twelve pictured here, I wonder would any have been employed locally to help?

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773431
    apelles
    Participant

    It’s the idea of ‘all this & then nothing’ that makes me belive in ‘something’.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773425
    apelles
    Participant

    @johnglas wrote:

    You keep hoping this was not arson, but – even if it wasn’t – can the diocese be uncensuerd because of what appears to have been criminal neglect of even elementary precautions (e.g. a smoke alarm, for God’s sake – literally!)? Where were An Taisce and the Heritage Dept? Did nobody in Longford even care about this building?

    Look John…no one wants to go round pointing fingers & accusing people of incompetence or criminal neglect just yet…we have to wait & be patient… to ascertain exactly just what happened & let the Garda forensics team finish their conclusions before speculating as to whose to blame..We certainly don’t want anymore bishops resigning !
    Your very lucky in Scotland to have society’s & groups set up with the care of Church buildings in mind… I’m sure you must be familiar with some of the buildings featured here. http://www.maintainyourchurch.org.uk/ .this site is excellent.
    We should be following that example for sure.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773414
    apelles
    Participant

    @Fearg wrote:

    In the photos, most of the floor seems to be gone – is the space which has now been opened up the crypt proper, or is that located at a deeper level? The bishop said in one report that the crypt was intact..

    Well Fearg the bishop has obviously surveyed the ruins & was right about the columns in his radio interview so hopefully he must be correct about the crypt as well. I’m not sure if the void we can see in the photos might show that the crypt has been breached but not actually fire damaged.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773412
    apelles
    Participant

    @Paul Clerkin wrote:

    Due to the scale of the destruction, I’d be more inclined to built modern within the ruins like at St.. Boniface in Winnipeg – completely destroyed in a fire in late 1968
    The original was so big, that it has provides an internal courtyard as well as a modern church – the remains are a huge draw for wedding photography

    I dunno Paul..there are dangers involved with bringing priests & church ceremonies ‘outside’ of their comfort zone..

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773407
    apelles
    Participant

    @GrahamH wrote:

    Dear oh dear, the fire damage is much more severe than I had imagined. It looks like many of the columns are indeed beyond reuse. Questions really do have to be asked about how the fire got such a hold and so quickly over the building – what detection measures were in place?

    Well ‘none’ might be the sad yet obvious answer to that question Graham…Considering that the initial alarm was raised by a passer by at 5am..Unless of coarse they’d just forgotten to change the batteries..We still have to wait & find out the conclusions of the garda forensic team to discover whether the fire started in the cathedral itself or in the building to the rear where the oil burner was located or whether it was in fact arson. But yours does raise another question..Should all historical buildings like St. Mel’s not have state of the art fire detection & sprinkler systems mandatorily installed?
    BTW would yourself & Gunter not throw your names in the hat for the job..Devin could be your gofer.:D

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773404
    apelles
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    The most obvious choice of architect for the restoration of St Mel’s is Duncan Stroik of the school of Archicture at Notre Dame Uniersity, South Bend, Indiana. Praxiteles will be glad to supply a telephone number.

    Agree that he’s definitely done some stunning work however, is there no one closer to home? Are there not lots of extremely talented Irish architects who could surely do a perfectly good job on restoring St. Mel’s to its former glory?… given the time & the money.

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773403
    apelles
    Participant

    @johnglas wrote:

    Unfortunately, I can’t upload any photos, but there’s agood set at

    Is anyone else having trouble uploading images from their computer?

    in reply to: reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches #773399
    apelles
    Participant

    Thanks engstu & welcome to the thread.


    OK we can now see the columns are gone beyond repair…They’re dangerous & will have to be demolished…what a terrible disappointment that is.
    I also now fear for the original high altar & pulpit which were in the crypt below the floor, this looks to have been critically damaged

    Maybe I’m wrong but the columns appear to have been built on rubble..


    At least the rear sanctuary wall can be saved. Some of the statuary has also survived due to being somewhat protected in their niches.

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