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@gunter wrote:
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen photographs, new or old, of the Custom House interior.
I don’t think they rebuilt anything on the site of the long room.
Shots of the interior are quite hard to come by ! i presume because so little of the original remains and what exists now not really significant …
I did a bit of looking around and this is all I could find …
North Entrance
(Conservation & Restoration of North Entrance by Quilligan Architects)
Two shots of the dome, not the upper drume & dome i presume, which was completely destroyed & rebuilt by the free state and is painted a fairly garish yellow if i recall ??
The shots are from the DK image library of Dublin, probably the most extensive collection on the web.
@BostonorBerlin wrote:
:D:D:D
If your designing buildings as badly as your calling the bottom for financial stocks then that explains a few clangers i see on the urban Irish landscape .
Maybe you didnt see the market meltdown yesterday . bye bye Lehman… S&P hits 52 week low and fallingI’ve never designed a building in my life but I do use architects who I invest in to deliver superior returns. The enjoyment you are getting from 28,000 losing their jobs is unbelievable; Fuld lied to the New York Fed about the scale of the crisis and took down a lot of honest hard working people with him. People like him are luckily not around very often and the scale of his egotistical failure to do a deal 2 weeks ago when there was still time is shocking and tragic. Luckily for me I was able to leverage a little of the volalility available today are kept my loses to less than 10% since last Friday.
I will be back in the market tomorrow acquiring bank shares because luckily those that profit from crisis like these book their profits and realise that to rape us again we need to make at least some of our money back.
To think if you played your hunch you could have bought Lemen puts for $2.50 when the shares were at $12; thankfully you are too bitter to pay a broker and prefer to whine on about buildings, infrastructure and anything else that comes into your view.
Bank of Ireland at €4? I’ll have a few thousand please
@johnglas wrote:
PeterFitz: interesting to see your picture and generous comment on the Scottish Parliament bldg]
I probably should have qualified my comments about the Scottish Chamber – ‘probably the finest modern parliament chamber to date’, its not so hard when all your contemporaries seem to specialise in bland surfaces with lashings of royal blue upholstery :rolleyes: it is a pretty impressive space nonetheless.
Graham is spot on about the tours, its not so easy unfortunately – your best bet is to see if you can tag along with another – i’d email the event desk – eventdesk@oireachtas.ie and play the innocent tourist. More info on:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/FAQ/document2.htm
@GrahamH wrote:
Personally I think both the house and parliament would benefit from the removal of the Oireachtas away from the main house in favour of a new build on the Lawn. I’m in two minds about the Dail Chamber itself however – it’s really of such quality and iconic status to warrant full retention at its present location. The potential for a dramatic contemporary roof structure encasing the historic furnishings however is a concept I find very appealling. This would also serve to highlight the original fittings, a rare example of 1920s furniture design in Ireland, and the last gasp of the classical school and indeed that of large scale mahogany installations on a European level.
Now I’d settle for that 😉 The upper half is desperately crying out for a complete re design – your contemporary roof suggestion could be stunning.
So perhaps a new home for the Seanad & other facilities in a signature building on Leinster Lawn, while allowing the main house itself to be completely restored, uses for some of its fine refurbished rooms anyone ?
Our Senators would also have to justify their existence before any such investment on a new Seanad was made. They need to be directly elected, at local election time, and the numbers appointed by the government of the day significatnly reduced – basically some chance that they might actually return a bill & be more than a rubber stamping operation.
@fergair wrote:
Regarding Leinster House, yes it’s pokey. Ridiculously so. But it’s the home of the parliament of an independent Irish state and I get goosebumps every time I walk past the Kildare St entrance and see the tricolour flying above it. It’s also the indisputable symbol of Irish democracy.
Architecturally,. the Seanad is housed in probably one of the finest legislative chambers in Europe. The room is exquisite, always the highlight for me of the mundane tours of the building. And the Dail chamber is a very handsome one, as another thread here has briefly expounded upon. The upper deck, so to speak, is a bit ould looking but the House of Commons looks very peculiar when you see the galleries above it too.This all being said, the naive little patriot inside me is biased when it comes to rooms as “sacred” as these, perhaps
But give us the Kildare St forecourt back!!! The Museum and Library have had their entrances robbed from them for the last 80years. It always feels like you’re sidling into them when you go in the main doors – and these are two of Dublin finest Victorian buildings that we’re talking about.
I’d tend to agree with you fergair.
I’m not too sure what to make of modern parliament chambers, they generally leave me a little cold.
Aside from the Bundestag’s impressive dome & the thinking behind it, the chamber itself seems to follow a fairly generic format that is almost standard across europe, little to distinguish one from the other in many cases.
The dutch lower house, fairly depressing and also quite typical
Scotland – probably the finest modern parliament chamber to date
I think the heavy tiering in the Dail chamber creates a particular atmosphere (ok ok, when full) – something i’d like to see borrowed by modern interpretations.
In general i’d be loathe to start from scratch & would prefer to see parliament housed in a building that is steeped in our history. The Bank of Ireland is the only altermative for me, the first purpose built parliament house in the world, its not the place for a faceless bank.
Adjoining buildings on Foster Place / Dame Street & Westmoreland could be utilised if additional office space etc. is required. The main issue imo would be the distance from Government Buildings on Merrion St.
Again, no government here would get away with spending the likely 200m+ to relocate, i’ll bet a refurb of Lenister house, which will cost a fair few quid in itself, is all that will ever happen.
@jimg wrote:
IProperty index derivatives in the UK are currently pricing a 40% drop over the next 3 years.
The property derivative thing was only set up at the end of 2007 through IPD and JLL capital markets; it was believe it or not set up so that commercial property funds that had difficulties sourcing product over the previous 3-4 years wouldn’t miss out on the boom and could bet on further yield compression without the problem of having to find a building with blue chip tenants.
The same people are now telling us that prices that have already fallen close to 20% will fall another 40%; I don’t believe it and maybe I am sitting on that proverbial deck chair as I am exposed to some pretty risky plays working in property and holding bank stock.
There is no question that banks feared loss of market share to rivals and lent on property deals which were predicated on future growth levels which have now moved in the wrong direction. With the contraction in supply that is being witnessed prices cannot continue to fall once there is a regular supply of credit in the market. Banks quite simply having made mistakes in past years aimwed at maximising shareholder value are now in a position where it is difficult for them to sell any mortgages because the asset backed securities sector is closed; they in effect unable to perform their societal function for the first time in 30 plus years.
The problem here is that as the economy slows deposits will fall back and without access to international wholesale markets banks will have an ever dwindling supply to lend to anyone other than key commercial clients. By selecting very strict criteria the NTMA can secure very high quality loans at what are in the medium term very attractive prices; when the market recovers the asset class will become too expensive and they will be outbid at which time astability has clearly returned they could either hold the securities as high quality assets or liquidate the position moving the money back into index based equity or back to government paper. Critically in the short term it puts a safety net in place to ensure that the construction sector can remain open for business at say 40 – 50,000 units a year and not collapse to the 20,000 its heading for next year.
Staircase to the Dail Chamber, with its manky carpet
really manky carpet
and the chamber itself …
I wouldn’t be quite as harsh as Graham, but agree that the upper reaches generally not visible on camera, need some serious work, the glazing and lighting are dreadful.
and the ‘auld curtain concealing the electronic voting panel doesn’t help either.
The seldom seen panel … installed during 03/04 i think
Even so, there’s something I quite like about the chamber & given the appropriate intervention, it could make a fine home for the lower house.
GrahamH wrote:It is a crying shame to see the house –]I beg to differ with you young man !
well i don’t really, just wanted to say that 😉Of course much of what you say is true. The house itself is not an ideal host & the parliament has essentially been shoe horned in there, but the primary issue here is one of long term neglect. Successive governments have been simply afraid to inject the resources necessary, while heavy use & some shocking 1980’s decor has clearly taken its toll.
For those not too familiar with the interior, some shots from oireachtas.ie
The Lobby from the Kildare St. entrance
and its impressive ceiling
The entrance from Leinster Lawn, with its dreadful carpet
The Ceann Comhairle’s office, prior to the installation of some very expensive curtains costing 12,000 euro.
The Library, one of the finest rooms
The Seanad Chamber
and its Ante Room
The unfortunate visitors staircase Graham referred to
More to post, will have to leave it till later.
@tomcosgrave wrote:
Hi all – long time reader, first time poster.
Not sure if anyone here has spent any time working in Liberty Hall. I have – and it’s a lousy place to work. Most of the floor space is taken up by the lift shafts, and the offices are very cramped. It’s not a great place to spend any time in at all. The staff working there had to be moved out because the electricity cabling went awry a couple of years ago, and I believe the basement flooded as well. It’s not really fit for purpose any more.Commercial landlords will refit every 15-20 years renewing all mechanical and electrical services; I do sympathise with you having to put up with those conditions but it is felt that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the solution.
Think Treasury building on Grand Canal Street where the interiors were replaced and cladding replaced but all based around the original structure and it didn’t even have a cute roof!!
I was struck by the poor state of repair Darthmouth Square is falling into it is starting to get very overgrown due to a complete lack of any real attention. The railings of the park are deteriorating badly with sections of coping subsiding into the park; rust on many sections of railings which must pose a health and safety risk.
@SunnyDub wrote:
My point was that this recession will be a lot shorter if we take it on the chin and don’t try and prop up the housing market. If we do try and prop it up, we’ll get a ten year recession instead of 3.
I agree that subsidising the property market would not help but it is clear that the problem is not property specific which if it were would be a lot more worrying. Therefore gimmics such as as stamp duty moves on residential property should be resisted.
There is however a clear rationale for the govenment to assist liquidity in the banking sector at the current time as this crisis is entirely finance related. A purchase by the NTMA of asset backed securities would be welcome once loan to value ratios were respectable say 75% maximum and be limited to properties that have environmental outperformance.
The last thing that should be done is that unsellable 3 bed semis in the wrong locations should be bought as social / affordable housing. The recent pausde for breath should be taken as an opportunity to update development strategies and prevent a prolonged slump. When you see a republican government renationalise something you know there is no other alternative; the do nothing option is not an option unless you want to see the best construction workers back to Kilburn and Sydney
Agreed it is dull but is a welcome addition given the previous buildings/surface car park on the site. I see the adjoining plot got permission from abp a month or so back.
@johnglas wrote:
reddy: absolutely – however, some of our younger colleagues have a memory span of three weeks and can’t wait for a city of high-rises and glass fronts; so cool, man.
Totally agree and there is no better example of a building representing a particular era both at the time and as a symbol of modernity for the next 30 plus years.
It is shocking that this building which only needs an internal refurb and external recladding is facing the chop; you could understand if this was a property play but its a frickin union imitating those they caricature.
Get it listed
No doubt your aware the minister is considering what way to proceed with a national post code system, and has some sort of report in front of him – i’ve heard before that An Post already has a system that has assigned a unique identifier to every single building in the state, if so, surely an extension of their seemingly very specific system would be the way to go ?
Quite like this shot posted by GrahamH on another thread.
Obviously don’t agree Shane. However if we are to get some sort of bloated replacement, i would prefer to see the quay line reinstated. It could have made a good location for the new Abbey though, pivotal corner site with river frontage & near enough to the original too !
All dream stuff though, siptu always unlikely to give up that site & both decisions long since made. Will be very interested to see what Gilroy McMahon come up with.
@massamann wrote:
The boom may well be over but until we take some element of personal responsibility for our choices – instead of blaming everybody else – then we’re just going to end up making the same mistakes again the next time an upturn comes along. 🙁
Agreed the last upturn was like an 1880s Gold Rush and it became politically impossible to stop development based on local need; once you were local somewhere that was enough; once you could sound like a local in Quinns in Drumcoundra on thursday night.
What about planning in a sustainable way around accepted transport and municipal service provision efficiencies. Emotionally intelligent polititians such as Martin Cullen and Dick Roche trying to do Bush still folksy we’ll look after everyone type spin. When one looks back at one off housing, the now abadnoned decentralisation programme based on late late toy show principles. There are many lessons to be learned.
When you look at what the opportunity was Boston Scientific in Galway, Intel in Leixlip, Pfizer in Cork, Goldman Sachs in Dublin you couldn’t have done a better job in providing a sound economic provision to roll out world class infrastructure, sophisticated architecture and cultural projects gallore.
The Greenspan years delivered so much investment in positive technological advances, the internet moved from its Cern geekdom to the rest of the World, pharma never before or since delivered so many new blockbuster drugs and fund moved from a very small number of centres to new ones like Luxembourg, Panama and Dublin. It was a very exciting time which slumped for a two year period before banking and property lifted the malaise in mid 2003.
yep keep the fingers crossed thats a very rational response to the fact Lehman posted 4 billion dollar loss for the last quarter. lets let the CEO know , that we have our legs crossed as well, in fact lets all cross fingers and stop being pessimistic and looking at the bottom of the balance sheet and the CSO figures, thats a much more rational repsonse. What did you cross when Fannie and Freddie Mac were nationalised
18 hours after Fannie and Freddie were re-nationalised I sold all my banking stock bought the previous Thursday at a good profit; 12% on an opening bell is unsustainable; I bought them back today between 5 and 8% lower the 4% is sustainable. The effect of moving 8% of top 30 banks balance sheet assets from ailing mortgage lender junk bonds trading at 250 bps above t-bills has increased which is what the Fed has done by gauranteeing the assets of Fannie and Freddie; it has increased the value of these institutions massively at a time when their tier 1 capital positions were heading in the wrong direction. After another 40% fall this evening Lehman will be rightsized by KKR and another couple of private equity firms; my fingers remain crossed for all that work there it is tough environment to look for a job if you are in your late 30’s or older.
The low point was 14 July 2008 – it gets better from here for finance, in a year for retail and 2 years for property
@dave123 wrote:
Building will pick up again.
- Once oil and world markets stabilize.
- When the war is over, MEANING with get that bush bas**** out and into jail
- Pick up of the European and US economies.
- And when People stop panicking.
Irelands has a large economy now, are infastructure(improved a bit) we have population growth. We as a country has great attraction still for job creation. Today Ireland is well recognised. What this country is experiencing is a dip, not a downturn like the 80s. Our national debt and state of our country was nothing compared to the 80s
So would people stop f**** been so petty, negative. and so bloody gloomy.
This thread has been annoying me for a while; BoBs latest drivel has tipped me over the edge 😡
The building boom is as the title says over; but this will if someone sticks it in their calendar to reopen this in 3 years time I’m betting that this phase will be correctly diagnosed as a pause and not a destination in itself.
To quote the great man “Wall St got drunk and now it has a hangover” but as Greenspan was quoted in the FT as saying the irrational nature of markets means that we move from a mindset of total euphoria to total dispear in a second for short periods whilst the truth lies somewhere in between.
The commercial market will pick up in Q3 2009 with residential growing by Q2 2010; no Irish bank will fail and higher charges will result in sufficient profitability to sustain the next irrational bout of euphoria.
Hopefully in the next incline planning considerations will be more prevalent than the irrational fear of people not being able to enter the property ladder.
In the interim I’m looking to add the the PV 3
1 Quintain Estates and developement QED:LSE – Share price <50% of net asset value
2. Whitbread WTB:LSE – great numbers last week costa up 14.3%, Premier Inn are doing well from corporate travellers being nailed with crap hotels by senior managememt cutting costs
3. Anglo Irish Bank ANGL:ISE – one of the most shorted stocks in Europe; unfairly it has excellent management
Fingers crossed Lehman survives and 28,000 jobs are saved and that a line can be drawn in the sand that the last major European / G8 bank is in danger of collapse by rumour; no matter how bad a bundle of mortgages are 80% will never default yet this is what is causing the current bout of irrational psychology.
He pretty much said there would be no further interference in the housing market on the late late last friday – remember he did not want to change stamp duty at all last time round, he was forced to do so under pressure from Bertie.
Not so sure meeself.
Now that the ECB have raised the standard of bank notes he hasn’t much to do.
Way off topic has anyone seen the Bushmills bank note done by Bank of Ireland – talk about a world class marketing campaign.
The structure of local authority in London has seen very many changes over the past 20 years and depending on what borough you live in your views would differ between the fierce defence of specific local authority independence if you are in a well funded borough such Camden or RB Ken & Chelsea to the discredited efforts of the General London Council to lessen the powers of the individual member boroughs and make wide ranging decisions at Metropolitan level.
The key difference between Dublin and London is the funding structure and the ability of well funded authorities such as Westminster to generate huge revenues from Council Tax, on street parking and business rates. Compare this to Fingal where there is limited parking a declining industrial base and no council tax but is largely funded by stealth taxes on waste which is notoriously expensive to collect and motor taxes which should when public transport improves fall as people use their cars not as essential transport but for discretionary weekend use to out of town retail parks or long weekends in the provinces. Such a shift to continental / London car use patterns would in most households see a decline from 2 plus to 1 car and as the system is based on engine size and not usage these revenues will shrink further due to lower emissions levels.
Whilst much of the above is clearly way off topic it is strongly felt that Local Authorities should concentrate on how they will fund themselves over the coming decade and not what they are called or how their principle and viable settlements are clasified as.
The real success in London of the last 5 years and Frankfurt for the previous 20 years has been the role of the regional structure of govenrment in particular the stategic view on key issues such as transport and specific targeted policy interventions in tackling deprivation etc where local authorities must compete to secure funding for projects which is paid by the more affluent boroughs and filters down to the more challenged boroughs in South and East London.
