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@alonso wrote:

it’s not an either/or situation – it’s a construction impact… jaysus. We’;ll get the Green back. It may no longer conform to it’s suddenly granted utopian status conferred upon it here, but it will remain an open space. Only far more conveniently accessibel to far more people

You won’t get the Green back for at least 50 years; the genisis of the Green is that it is a mature space that has developed a random quality put together by generations of park keepers. What you would get is a steralised version of a heritage park such as the interior of Merrion Square at best or Mounjoy Square at worst; you would also lose the main access to the space for a considerable period of time.

I see a lot of people complaining about buildings getting knocked that would not be preserved in any other serious capital but the alterations proposed to the premier innner city park would not happen in London, Paris or any other City with attitude.

A beautiful park is little cosolation to countless suffering commuters and a waning economy. The green is a great asset, but this line is a necessity.
Replanting trees is easier than attracting FDI. Then again, this has all been said before.

I totally disagree that linking the airport to St Stephens Green by rail or retaining a fine Victorian planting scheme is an either or. The options to avoid destruction are

1. Link the airport to the interconnector by 4 tracking between Fairview and Portmarnock; the Dart upgrade to Malahide future proofed bridges on that section to accomodate 4 tracks.

2. Build the metro if the price becomes realistic in light of falling tax revenues and falling construction costs in major economies. But close Luas from the end of Harcourt Street i.e. 300m of track and surface on the existing track bed.

What is proposed is really the last thing you would want to do on the grounds of reinstatement costs if nothing else; the costs of things like draining ponds, taking down stone arches, sourcing semi-mature plants all very niche and very expensive and given the furore over medical cards how do you think this type of expenditure will play out in rural constituencies?

I think planning has moved on a lot over the past decade; all major schemes involve a significant planning gain for local communities; much of this started in Tower Hamlets in the mid 1990’s phases of development and most local authorities worth their salt have secured much for local stakeholders.

When you look at master-planned towns such as Adamstown you start to see entire communities created with vital societal elements a definite pre-condition. Of course developers feel resentful for these measures when they are introducde as they represented at introduction a ‘new business cost’ but in time these measures have been built into development land pre purchase viability analysis as are another costs such as stamp duty which is a tax that gives nothing to local stake-holders.

This is not the forum to debate macro-economics but save to say interest rates will be slashed into nextr year with both Euro and UK rates at 2.50% this time next year. This will happen not to line the pockets of anyone but because inflation will be at less than 1% this time next year and because there is no incentive for money to become productive when mega-rich people can take no risk and acheive a return of 6% for holding cash.

Missarchi I like the Garda station can the RPA be charged with not introducing integrated ticketing and ripping off the Irish commuter for the 3 years since they ignored their instructions to do so and simply introduced a single system prepay system only for their own network of 2 disconnected tram lines. We can’t afford excess baggage in a recession

Not a bother I’ve had a number of threads ransacked by people off on an ideological tangent; I’m sure our politics are very different but I’m clear we can find common ground on many aspects of an issue without having to concentrate on the baggage we bring to that issue.

@the hawk wrote:

yes, that sounds reasonable. Do you think he will go for it? worth a try eh.He might agree to pay you in installments. What was that about deluded fools? Gormley has gone quiet again. No doubt he is still redrafting the constitution with the crayons fianna fail gave him. Bless him.

Why single out Gormley on this as the opposition to NoG had all party support as does anyone who is proud to represent the unacceptable face of capitalism in this case no planning for property development.

I’ve heard Argentinian bonds are yielding 48% – want a prospectus?

If any kind of cost benefit was to be done of metro north v the interconnector, i’m quite sure which project would come out on top.

The airport spur from the northern line was always an attractive idea, but capacity of the line itself is an issue, really the line needs to be 4 tracked, and thats a nightmare of a job.

If it ever gets built; in a boom you could ignore that the cost of €6bn for a 15kms light rail line and it could be justified by the sheer insantiy of the amount of tax being generated year on year and the lack of any meaningful non-private car connection to the airport. Given the new fiscal backdrop it is time to review all infrastructure investment with a pricetag exceeding €250m and subject all of them to a thorough cost benefit analysis.

The more you look at it building 5 or 6 light rail lines each at a cost of €200-400m each and doubling track capacity between Connolly and Malahide with a view to building mainline services to Dublin Airport and extending it to Swords (and down the line further into North County Dublin or even Ashbourne) would deliver a far superior return on investment and open up North County Dublin to develop at far more sustainable densities and cost half what a single Metro would cost.

What progress has been made on integrated ticketing?

@johnglas wrote:

johnnny21: doesn’t the fact that you can’t ‘see’ ncc from where you suggested just demonstrate what an uncoordinated mess it all really is? If anybody thinks this is what passes for townscape in a prestige area, then it’s not just a financial crisis we have. Whoever proposed that mis-shapen lump behind those period buildings should be done for sub-prime design!

It confirms that STW paid no attention whatsoever to what would adjoin their PWC fortress. That building is absolutely devoid of context.

@Morlan wrote:

I don’t buy the whole “duplication” argument. I want to get a tram direct from Sandyford to O’Connell St.

Morlan, why not connect the green line with line F and save the city from the bx mess ? the walk from College Green to O’Connell St. wont kill you 😉

Absolutely agree with jimg, though never bought in to the notion of continuing metro north on the harcourt line axis, given the derth of public transport options elsewhere in the city, dubs in the south east of the city can get by with their luas & dart.

For now, metro north should continue to portobello/grand canal area & utilise one of several green or state sites in the area so that the inevitable calls for it to be extended can be facilitated with minimal disruption, imo from there it should continue on to serve rathmines, harolds cross, terenure, tempelogue, knocklyon, old bawn & terminate at tallaght. Population density along such a route would far exceed that of the harcourt option.

Terminating metro north at the green, and lets face it this is what is going to happen, will proove to be a massive mistake – we’ll just have the green back and they’ll have to plough it all up again, madness.

@SunnyDub wrote:

Well, I read the news today oh boy…sorry!

I’m no fan of metro north for so many reasons but postponing it sends such a bad signal for infrastructure investment.

I disagree and given the increased tax burden and swinging spending cuts I think it is high time the project was shelved until the market settles and there is some idea what damage has been done by recent economic changes.

I have no doubt that a rail link to Dublin airport is 30 years late already but the type of numbers in discussion are entirely off the beam for a 15-20kms light rail network. In hindsight the shoestring approach suggested by CIE and castigated for its hairshirt approach for 3 of the last 4 years since its launch really was a more sustainable one.

Medical cards are really what drive the body politic and public opinion; if a decent number of klingon’s who have designed excessively specified and gold cost schemes survive this difficult fiscal environment then ministerial paycuts are not just painful for those taking them they are a wasted sound bite that has the civil service as bloated and overpaid as ever.

As John Fitzgerald of the ESRI said so brilliantly on newsnight last night Ireland was never a Celtic Tiger it is more akin to a wind up mouse that will start to move as slowly as the rest of Europe by 2020. Money needs to be spend carefully on targetted public transport interventions. The roads programme needs to be curtailed as well; in three years there will be scope for some form of underground in Dublin which will I hope reflect true cost and not cost €1.90 to the airport but a more realistic €5-€6 per journey; why not sort out the aircoach priority buslane in the interim and put a letting board in a certain Parkgate Street building until the public finances are back to their usual rude health?

Yes he can, not likely though.