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@Morlan wrote:
It´s an awful extension and it has ruined the symmetry of this once fine, unmolested building. Very evident in GrahamH´s pic here.
Can´t anyone see how wrong this looks? It´s fucking awful.
It wasn’t set back far enough, its almost flush with the main facade and that was the primary mistake imo. Had they kept it 3 or 4m back & and not gone for the crazy tinted glazing, it could have been as discreet as i presume was intended.
I’ve often heard it said that mckee as we have it in Dublin was actually intended as a barracks for the Indian army, in, well India – some mix up supposedly occurred and the design was built in Dublin. I presume thats just a myth.
@ihateawake wrote:
Borrowing for current needs – bad, capital – shiny and good.
no dispute there 😉
i presume it will proceed in 2010.
well they are borrowing 8.2bn this year for capital expenditure, and whether government wants to or not, they will have to continue to borrow at least 8bn per annum to invest in infrastructure as it is one of few remaining crutches propping up the economy, they just can’t turn off the tap, a gradual decline in that level of investment is the only way government can proceed.
All of which actually makes it more likely that other major projects like metro north & (please god) the interconnector will go ahead once the motorway network is completed in 2010 and a significant chunk of that 8bn is released.
thanks for the info Rory, thought as much.
I drive and cycle by that area regularly and never noticed that monument in the middle pictures above:rolleyes:
This concern was echoed by the department’s chief archaeologist, Brian Duffy, in a letter to the design team in July 2007, when he wrote that the proposed road – originally conceived in 1978 – would “cross through the heart of the historic city of Kilkenny”.
“We object to the proposed scheme proceeding because of the severe impacts on the archaeology of one of Ireland’s premier historic cities”, Mr Duffy said
He added that the department was “surprised” that no alternatives had been put forward for consideration.
It is entirely shocking that the Department’s own chief archaelology can be over-ruled by the Department for Transport.
We would recommend that the department reassess the sustainability of and justification for the proposal in the first instance, and address the wider severance impact on Kilkenny’s urban environment”, said An Taisce’s heritage officer, Ian Lumley
It speaks volumes that Lumley felt compelled to comment himsrlf in the context of a strong local association.
How can a scheme conceived in 1978 possibly be considered relevant 30 years later?
Strengthening the outer orbital links surely would have made a lot more sense.
@Fergal wrote:
Why should it have to break even in operational terms? Almost no public transport in the entire world covers its operational costs. The DART doesn’t, .
The Dart did make a profit operationally until an election promise of extending Dart to Greystones was implemented post 1996
@Fergal wrote:
the London Underground doesn’t,
Excluding fleet replacement for rolling stock built pre 1960 LUL turns a profit; the wider TfL loses money however most of that is due to running buses in Greying suburbs reminiscant of most of the proposed route for metro.
@Fergal wrote:
and the New York Subway doesn’t come within an asses roar of covering even half its operating costs.
Funny that a google search for New York Subway subvention or operating subsidy doesn’t reveal a figure beyond the overall ‘mass transit subsidy’ of $770m p.a.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE0DF173DF93BA25756C0A963958260
That is a total subvention of $38.50 per citizen per year for all forms of transit combined; on that basis to extrapolate these figures the total subsidy in New York for commuter rail, subway and bus totals $38.5m total assuming a population of 1m people i.e. Dublin / North Kildare / South Meath North Wickla.
You point to build it and they will ocme at a time when global purchasing managers indexes are averaging 35 or a 30% decline in year on year output. The financing costs on this project at government bond rates would be €200m per year assuming that it even broke even.
You propose a subvention of 5.19 times the overall subvention per citizen in New York for all transit networks inluding subway, commuter rail and bus just to build a single line.
If that’s what passes for viability I’m glad I pay my tax elsewhere
@RoryW wrote:
Re: Newlands cross. Well I only know that there’s hordings all along the golf club and some clearance work has been done – so if the NRA are going to leave things static for a year that’s their perogative.
The Dublin/Cork Gas pipeline is being shifted in preparation for the junction upgrade (behind the hoarding) it looks like government has pulled funding, the nra were ready to go.
Agreed all sides in this have become entrenched and as disputes go this one has been as fractuous as these things get. It is fair enough to say that all DCC wanted from day one was to secure the best deal possible for the rate payer hence the long drawn out negotiations with the Darley estate.
It is equally fair to say that all O’Gara wanted was a quick buck from a project that he considered the demand side from a rising land market but ignored the context of the subject plot and the input costs of running the asset.
Ordinarily I would agree that a lease would be the way forward in these situations as it would generally give both sides what they want i.e. the occupier would have quiet enjoyment subject to covenants to maintain in good repair whilst the freeholder would secure an income for a specified period of time.
However in this case I am opposed to such an arrangement for the following reasons; firstly all freeholders hold land not only as an asset but also subject to statute and regulations whether Regional, National, Municipal or Local. This implied contract with the state and relevant local government ensures that freeholders behave reasonably and are subject to numerous laws and potential sanctions when they don’t.
Secondly the nature of the interest given the scale of tenants improvements previously carried out and required to be carried out periodically needs to be long term of no less than 40 years to justify expending public money to ensure that an interim dilipidations claim cannot be served at any time by what is known to be a litigious freeholder.
Thirdly fixing a rent would be difficult, one suspects the rent payable on comparable plots would not satisfy the freeholder as this land will always be held purely for a recreational purpose which given the tree preservation orders would make the annual upkeep prohibitive for all but one potential lessee. The guidance in Point Gourde on valuing special interests is particularly relevant here as I can’t see anyone other than the local authority expending the €100,000 a year required to keep the plot and fittings thereon secure, clean, in good repair and not littering the surrounding area with tonnes of garden matter.
I agree that a discussion needs to be held but that a final solution would be best for all parties concerned; it does however need to be on a realistic basis which would involve a windfall for the current freeholder and give a final certainty to the proposed purchaser. €50,000 – €75,000 would constitute a very good return on €10,000 or say €25,000 including legals.
The Pulham Rock and associated features were constructed here in the 1880’s. The survey will be carried out, in conjunction with detailed historical research and materials’ analysis to help devise the best system for removing and later reinstating the Island which is necessary to build the metro stop.
It has far from been proven why this area needs to be removed to build a metro stop; indeed it is far from proven that this project can even break even in operational terms let alone service a debt mountain of c€4-5bn.
What is required is that the emperor prove that he is wearing clothes and that if found to be wild fowl that he be relocated to CIE or FAS.
its a quirky diversion, i’ve always liked it …. the contrast between it and the college of physicians couldn’t be more stark, probably just as well we have the georgian to bridge the two !
@jpsartre wrote:
colognemike
The renovation of the Patrickswell to Charleville section of the old Great Southern will probably appear in the next NDP if not before. In addition to reducing the journey time on the Limerick-Cork line to just 1hr by some accounts it would also mean rail access to Limerick for Charleville, Bruree & Croom. The City Council would prefer people not to commute at all and to move to the city centre to work but I believe ‘total journey quality’ is the way to go wtih quality intercity/regional rail links serving train stations in cities, light rail networks serving the main spine(s) of cities and a range of buses from imps to double deckers radiating out from the centre and other strategic locations serving all the other neighbourhoods and areas of the city. Well planned quality public transport is imo the only way to attract owner occupiers esp. families into the c/cs because cars aren’t really an option in the middle of a city, at least not 2 per family. Many Londoners don’t have cars and don’t miss them.
I had a look at the city centre strategy yesterday and in fairness to the council they do recognise the land in the Hyde Park area is underutilized and ripe for development. What they intend doing about it to attract developers in is another thing. It ought to be a priority imo. The right sort of development there could also stimulate regeneration of the Georgian quarter .(v. important). It will need to dovetail in with the planned regeneration of B.Weston & Southill aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauban_(Freiburg)) ).
Dan
Interesting plan. Nice to know there’s somebody else in Limerick seriously thinking about this. I guess you’re opting for a tram-train solution. I’m not sure if that’s the right way to go. The existing rail alignments skirt round the city and don’t really penetrate the heavily populated areas so I’m not sure if you’d get the ridership to make it viable here. Also I’m not a big fan of single track and passing loops (even though I suggested employing them myself) because they’d slow the system right down. Trams every 15 minutes! No other trains, like freight trains or future Cork intercity trains could use this piece of track with that kind of burden on the line. And you don’t have any route for the north of the river either. Why not?That said I certainly agree the route must come into contact w/ Colbet station and the city centre. There’s no way of avoiding Charlotte’s Quay either which is a pity because that pinch pont at Baal’s bridge won’t accomodate 2 lines of track (my plan) and heavy orbital road traffic as well.
My idea is that the route should follow areas that would then be designated to allow for higher density development. To create the local population nodes that would make the service viable. Also while some of the route does go over existing train lines, those lines are not in use in many cases.
I’ve been messing around with a route for a light rail/electric bus system for a while.
Link:
I must admit to finding the proposals from the cllrs about having the bus lanes moved quite odd. Shouldn’t they first be proposing that the routes move and then look for the new lanes in those areas? They won’t of course because they would be opposed to the routes changing, so we were to follow their logic we would end up with bus lanes with no buses.
I left the last hat I owned a cheap cap wioth Che Guavara on the front in a converted hi-ace in southern Bolivia about 7 years ago. I don’t wear hats but I have respect for all that seek to differentiate themsleves from the pack in ways that enrich visual amenity as opposed to those that seek to deplete it for ham fisted gain.
We are not talking about enough garden matter to hide two snails we are talking about c100 trees oversailing public footpaths; each tree presumed to produce 100 kgs of wet leaves over a 2 month period. The costs of keeping this area clean would involve
1 man 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 9 weeks at €12 per hour including employment costs comes to €4,320; ten tonnes of waste at €120 per tonne comes to €1,200 plus transport of say 9 trips at €200 per trip of say €1,800 this is a cost of €7,320 p.a.
Why should tax payers subsidise a private citizen to make 400m of footpaths unsafe?
Particularly this one
It would be interesting for the state to buy this site back to replace the vetinary college for a similar price to what they sold the former college for.
You are correct that RBS and HBoS opted out of the government scheme as the cost of the finance is not cheap and unlike the Irish banks they had the choice to weigh it up with the UK package which has more generous terms for political reasons.
It will be interesting to see what happens next and my guess is that nothing will happen until ABP make a decision; the ownership with a full grant possibly retained by SD; and if SD can’t find development finance in the event of a grant the intention of all potential buyers will be based purely on what guidance is given as to preferred land use for this site.
Worst case scenario from a property point of view is that the site contains two very successful hotels albeit managed with the short term in mind of late which if they were the subject of a modest investment programme would have a substantial value per bedroom plus a large valuation for the conferencing facilities.
If the permission were granted that would really take the banks off the hook and possibly give SD some of his equity back; this whole saga reads like a certain shopping centre in 1981 minus the speech in the BoI boardroom after a certain inheritance.
How different the outlook has become generally 🙁
A couple of years ago all battles were simply between consultants and the conservation movement / wealthy residents now the credit squeeze is hurting all sides. 🙁
I always thought the purpose of a medieval City was to keep people out rather than allow unimpeded access; take names like London Wall, Aldgate, Bishopsgate. To anyone who has studied Medieval street patterns it is clear that the market square was at the centre and that single use districts for the various guilds radiated outwards depending on their individual importance. This continued to the walls from where wide open roads allowed carts to go onwards.
To claim that a medieval city could in any way be reinforced by a wide fast open road displays a complete lack of understanding of two things; firstly what makes urban spaces of any style or period attractive and secondly what attracts tourists.
Kilkenny attracts tourists in large numbers because it is a very pleasant safe place with a lot of character and some great historical buildings. To build a road through the town would remove the intimate street grain and make the town a lot less attractive to tourists on the basis of it no longer being a special medieval place.
Tourists don’t care about the last 10 minutes of traffic from the ring road in or the extra 5 minutes in a taxi from the station as it is a tiny proportion of their overall journey which probably involves a train to an airport, 2 hours checking in, 1- 3 hours flight time, 1 hour to get off the M50 and 1.5 hours to the ring road.
This is a very bad plan and is especially obscene in the context of some people being denied medical cards.
Respect is an alien concept to people like NoG Hats have you not noted that Noel is not the type to have tastes like nice hats or follow any other vestiage of decent days past.
If Noel is running a campsite albeit without planning permission surely he would be liable to produce public indemnity insurance as his customers no doubt are owed a duty of care. Aren’t there Bord Failte regulations for the operation of same.
It is further noted that significant garden matter is littering the pavements in the vicinity and such garden matter has the potential to render the interefere smooth operation of the local drainage system.
I trust the local authority shall protect the rate payers and recharge any costs to the owner of the subject park at the very least and issue litter notices for the extensive garden matter which constitutes a significant slip hazard and could lead to the local authority being sued for allowing their pavements to be in an unsafe condition.
Athy is well documented; personally if the locals want to wreck the place let them its their not very special town; good luck to them getting funding to do so in the current medical card free climate
Kilkenny is more serious it is a genuine Medieval town of world importance and after Galway the best decent scale weekend destination in the country. Again funding comes into play two choices build a destructive road predicated on people’s irritance with now yarded cement trucks or counter the following
UK visitors down 17% in September
Wednesday, 19 November 2008 11:51
Overseas trips to Ireland fell by 10.8% in September 2008 compared to the same time last year with a 17% fall in the number of visitors from the UK accounting for much of the decrease.The latest figures from the Central Statistics Office show that trips from other European countries and North America were also lower in September.
The CSO says that Irish residents made a total of 726,300 overseas trips in September, which was down slightly from the same time last year. This was in contrast to an increase of 14.5% in September 2007 compared to September 2006.
AdvertisementToday’s figures also reveal that in the first nine months of 2008, the number of overseas trips by Irish people rose by 4.4% to a total of 6,241,600 compared to the same time last year. However, the number of trips taken to Ireland fell by just over 1% to 6,174,000.
Advertise gems like Kilkenny media buy is cheap right now; Ryanair and Aer Lingus a bit like cement companies have a large proportion of their fleet grounded
Please move to Ireland forum
2 choices on how to spend €4.5bn option 1 build an underground Luas line or double the capitalisation of the three largest banks?
result 1 build a white elephant that services 4 square miles of city centre, 8 square miles of urban sprawl, 2 square miles of airport / ancillary carpark and 6 sq miles of suburban sprawl and a town centre (Swords)
result 2 get the banks lending and let the economy recover over time.
