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@Seamus O’G wrote:

PVC, as you note, we’ve been through this before. As I recall from the last time, your focus was very much on the financial managers and their lawyers, and their preference for St. Stephen’s Green as a location for the interchange. Unfortunately, many of them would be – by European norms – quite remote (if they’re on Adelaide Road or Fitzwilliam Place, for example, around 1 km) from the proposed interchange, and would realistically have to look at extensions of the network to bring their public transport experience up to the standards enjoyed in most western European cities of a similar size.

Seamus living and working in London’s West end and with most clients I’ve worked with being based in the City of London I understand mass transit. Most work places IN London are 5 – 10 minutes walk from a tube station. To get Adelaide Road you would simply interchange with Luas at Stephens Green and alight at Harcourt; for Fitz Place a pleasant 10 minute stroll through the Green and up Leeson Street; from College Green it would be a trek or a longer tram journey.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

On the other hand, my logic was, and is, that, when building the highest capacity line, the city needs to focus on delivering the largest number of commuters – whether they be the financial managers or lawyers that you favour, hairdressers, architects, civil servants, waiters, university lectures, whatever – as far as possible to their optimum location. And, according to the available figures, the optimum location seems to be in the centre, somewhere around College Green,

As a network is developed, these commuters can then change, if need be.

So, nothing really to do with the tourists

Could you at least cite some arguments based on plot ratios or something; listing a kitchen sink of professions is not helpful. You haven’t stated why it is the centre; I see College Green I see magnificent architectural treasures designed for aristocrats to strut around like peacocks with loads of wide open spaces; not commercial buildings ergonomically squeezing staff into chicken coop scale work stations; concealed behind modern shiny facades with generous meeting rooms to look opulent to clients but masking just how intensively they are used.

It looks like Metro North will have a railway order granted 15.5 months after applying. That would make mid October 2011 for Interconnector to get permission and a further year to sign a contract. Perhaps they will have learnt from metro north and the process will go faster. Both projects really need to be signed by the current administration to have any chance of proceeding.

It won’t happen in my opinion within the life of this parliment and certainly won’t happen until markets start move away from sovereign debt fears and start concentrating on corporate earnings again. The interest rate to service Irish 10 year debt is now twice that paid by Germany with the ratings agencies watching expenditure very carefully. One more downgrade……..

That is why it is absolutely vital that Interconnector is allowed to face public scrutiny via ABP prior to any project that has the potential to take up so much of the capital budget as to defer it; the debt cycle moves in 10 year cycles it is therefore likely that if a project is defered it is for a ten year period.

Build Luas to Swords – the SS-Bahn

Indeed, one of the weaknesses identified for a potential station at nearby Tara Street was that any line through there would have “no station at St. Stephen’s Green”. Well, of course it wouldn’t – it would be an east-west line, so it clearly couldn’t be built through both St. Stephen’s Green and the busiest parts of the city centre. You can’t have it both ways.

This has been discussed before; there are two types of busy; tourist busy and commercially busy; College Green is the former and Stephens Green the latter.

Building Luas BX with a third rail to give a rapid connection for those not wanting to take the 5-7 minute walk from a choice of Christchurch, St Green or Tara St stations to any point within that triangle will create a perfect on street solution for those with mobility issues.

And he might even give us a few ideas as to what we should do with the Digital Hub.

Assist homegrown global players such as Havoc to continue to be leaders in their niche fields and keep creating high value jobs that are recession resistant.

You are totally right the Historical Civic Core of the City is having its largest intervention in many decades through the Luas link up. Clearly a step needs to be taken back to get a sophisticated urbananist solution.

The Bordeaux third rail idea is from an urbanist perspective the only solution that will preserve the most important vistas in the city. In addition the ridding of cars from that area will create an area of real value; the leisure potential is vast.

What needs to be done to acheive it?

Stop thinking like engineers and start thinking about the user experience, as tourists, as commuters and as shoppers; on street Luas from Sandyford to Swords and a third rail from Stephens Green to Parnell Street paid for many times over from the billions saved by ditching a metro that no one knows the cost of and the passenger loadings don’t exist to justify; what could be more pleasant than getting on a tram in DCU and getting off into a pristine wire free College Green with no steps, escalators, CCTV cameras etc?

Interconnector will be less user freindly but as a workhorse it is more a system fix than designed to be user freindly…

I am prepared to pay for a submission on BXD if Graham is prepared to write it…. More to the point the interim dividend from my CRH holding will pay for it….

@ac1976 wrote:

I’m not so sure PVC, I think its missing the vehicular access.
It’s similar in size and mix to the likes of Sandyford Industrial Estate, but without any parking, buses or Luas. Of course it will have the DART station.
I’m not so sure companies or residents would be so attracted to Sandyford without the ability to park there, or get a bus to it.

Inchicore Works will be easier and quicker to access from the Docklands, Pearse Street and Stephens Green than from Inchicore village and this is a bit strange and isolated for an Urban Quarter.

This can all be addressed, perhaps by levies as you suggest, but these levies could be used to build the Lucan Luas line passing through the site, perhaps with some extra stops to maximise the benefit to the Inchicore Site since it would be paying for it.
It just seems that there is something missing here.

Another extra-ordinary thing is that although the only way in and out is walking/cycling or the DART Irish Rail are proposing a whole 30 Bike parking spaces to be built at the station!
Thats really low as the catchment around this station for pedestrians is very very low, this could be supplimented by a larger cycle catchment but not with just 30 bike spcaes! Are they as ignorant of the needs of cyclists in their other stations?

30 bikes does not seem to indicate that CIE were aware of the fantastic restoration of the Grand Canal and building of a cycle track that Peter Fitz posted a few weeks back.

There may be some merit in building a loop on Luas Red from Bluebell close to Inchicore Works and reconnecting with the Luas line at the end of Kilmainham Lane; the benefit to interconnector would be that if there is a pasenger incidient that Luas could have most service re-routed via Inchicore works and turn DARTS back at both Spencer Dock and Inchicore ensuring that commuters at each end could switch modes to Luas. No doubt people in Drimnagh and Fatima would not be pleased but on balance there are more commuters further out….

The Bordeaux system uses ground level power in the centre but the trams switch to overhead in the suburbs. I assume they haven’t proposed ground level supply because the cost might sink the project.

So save on the third rail and build a bridge and divert twice as many utilities instead…………

The piece on Bordeaux states that the costs of third rail are 300% those of conventional suspended wires; the question is how much does conventional suspended wiring cost? What is the top slice that suspending as invisibly as possible from Grade 1 protected structures in a sensitive area in heritage terms cost? I would not be surprised if the additional costs for a third rail on BX to the top of O’Connell St / Parnell Square were manageable in the context of a direct route being adopted and vastly reduced utility diversion costs and complete elimination of the bridge saving… The project as it stands is another timewarp back to the ‘Boom just got Boomier’ Era it needs to reflect current fiscal realities.

I have to say the local cllrs haven’t covered themselves in glory with this, it seems like they didn’t really think this proposal to close off the access through at all. Or maybe they weren’t paying attention to the detail of the plans at all.

@Morlan wrote:

It was reveled yesterday that the government has axed many of Transport 21’s projects due to no cash (quelle surprise!).

It would appear that Luas BXD will not go ahead any time soon, HOWEVER, Metro North will, and enabling works for BXD will go ahead alongside the construction of Metro North – no point digging up College Green twice.

Seems Dempsey remains in a different reality to the rest of the World; no Luas link up but Metro North and a Motorway now extended from Waterford to Letterkenny are prioritised. Ireland is doomed with leadership like that……..

Nobody is suggesting for a second that the owners are in any way involved in the arson; however it would be interesting to see if failure to comply with the set of ‘risk improvements’ issued by the insurance company led to insurance cover being withdrawn. (i.e. They couldn’t afford to carry out the works required or keep the site manned 24*7)

There is an urgent need for local authorities and or fire departments to be notified where important protected structures become unoccupied; regulations should be passed requiring owners to comply with risk assessments prepared by LA’s / Fire Departments in situations where owners do not have the working capital to implement compliance on foot of notices then the state should invervene.

With 425,000 people unemployed it is extremely wasteful that the state can’t use people crying out for work to guard or carry out urgent repairs to secure sites of this importance and enter a superior first charge on the underlying folio to prevent a vaccuum developing and repay the costs whenever the market bounces back in the medium term.

I wonder what the costs of retro-fitting a battery system to store enough juice to get a tram from St Green to Parnell Sq would cost and what amount of passenger space would be lost to accomodate same. I’m not conviced on a third rail as if you leave accessible it will become a suicide magnet and if you sink it into the ground say 18 inches to prevent people touching it; then it would be lethal to cyclists who could get there wheels jammed. A very tough balancing act resolvable by the same technology in Nice but at a cost….

The railway order documents are complex and I havent even looked at the EIS yet but the urban design statement makes me seriously wonder what the fuck is going on in this banana republic (excuse my French). What an astonishingly poor document! This is meant to be the vision for the transformation of the city centre. It is meant to redefine all the great spaces of the city for ever! (or at least for many years to come). I challenge anyone to really consider this document and really consider how it will impact the quality of the city centre. What strikes me:

Who are the architects who are “transforming” the city;
Where is the input and direction of the many over paid officials of Dublin City Council who are paid and given responsibility to manage the city – I mean you John Tierney, Dick Gleeson, Michael Stubbs and Ali Grehan et al;
How has this design been assessed in the context of the existing and new development plans;
How has it been devised in the context of the soon to be published “Public Realm Strategy” for the city centre;
How after all the “public consultations” which have taken place has this design been arrived.

Dontget me wrong: I completely support a Luas link. But not on these terms.

Interested parties have 5 weeks to consider this mess and make their views known to An Bord Pleanala. Do you care enough?

If the route were ammended to a traffic calmed OCS and College Green with the wirescape done in a similar manner to Harcourt Street; what would your views be?