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I wonder how cllr Byrne would react if Bus Eireann did the sensible thing and simply removed all the bus stops along O’Connell Ave. and ran the service purely for those who want to get in and out of town. How many along O’Connell Ave would be complain about the lack of a bus then.

Tommy as always on de money..

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not sure what you mean here, although I note that you cut only a small section of my argument (a statistician’s move there!). 8 of the 23 DCC decisions were upheld by ABP. Of the other 15, 5 of the inspectors recommended upholding the decision – giving 13 upheld decisions if the inspectors were correct. By your logic above, the 5 of ABP’s own inspectors who recommended acceptance of DCC’s decision were equally as professionally incapable of assessing the schemes to a standard acceptable to ABP as DCC themselves – which kind of makes a mockery of the process don’t you think?

The bottom line is that i8 cases the decisions were so heavily conditioned by the Bord as to not resemble the applications passed by DCC; in a further 15 cases the decisions were overturned. There have been some horrific buildings errected in Dublin n over the past 10 years; all of which were on DCC’s watch.

The current system suits no-one; developers are encouraged by architects to apply for more than they will get and paying a multiple of the professional fees they needed to, planning resources are wasted looking at sites on multiple occaisions, banks are funding a process where there are no clear outcomes, occupiers are paying inflated rents and capital values because only some schemes are getting Bord permission and parts of the City have been wrecked.

Please do not try to be clever by raising red herrings such as inspectors reports. I have never voted for Gormely despite having many opportunities to do so but on this he needs to get a result.

I thought it was highly ironic that Sean Fitzpatrick’s last poker game was over a Nigerian Oil Field, clearly games without rules were an environment he was very familiar with and as the primary financier behind the boom and bust in this local authority his risk gauge was very indicative.

According to your logic ABP got it right twice as often as they got it wrong; but we all know you don’t accept the current planning system structure of first instance local, second instance An Bord and third instance High Court etc.

After the JC Deceaux advertising fiasco and now a failure to fess up to their planning record under direct ministerial enquiry; you do wonder if DCC realise that they in fact at first instance level and subject to oversight. If I were John Gormley I would be having a conversation with the elected body of the City Council informing them of the loss of their powers should he be required to develove more power to the new mayoral office to remove certain functions due to a potential to acheive a better fit with national standards.

Bank costs to swell deficit – ESRI
Wednesday, 14 July 2010 15:33
The Economic and Social Research Institute says the cost of providing extra capital to Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide will have to be included in the national accounts, and will push the government deficit from 11.5% to 19.75% of economic output – by far the highest in the developed world.

The report indicates that 120,000 people will have left Ireland in the two years to next April.

Read more detail on the report here

Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund has praised the Government’s moves to support the banks and tackle the budget deficit, saying they had helped stabilise the economy. Read more on the IMF view here

Spend on training, urges ESRI

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EVIX

LONDON (ShareCast) –

LONDON (Dow Jones)–A consortium of City investors is close to seizing control of a third of Britain’s trains for about GBP1.7 billion, said U.K. newspaper The Times on Sunday citing sources close to the situation.
The investors, 3i Infrastructure PLC (3IN.LN), Morgan Stanley Infrastructure and Star Capital, have teamed up to buy the rolling stock leasing business owned by HSBC Holdings PLC (HSBA.LN).
It owns 4,000 U.K. trains, including several distinctive fleets such as the Intercity 225 trains, that run between London and Edinburgh and the Javelin high-speed commuter trains that provide services between London and Kent.
The business was one of three created and sold off when British rail was broken up in 1990s.
The private consortium has been given a period of exclusivity to finalise the deal and a price of GBP1.7 billion has almost been agreed with the deal expected to close by the end of the month, said the newspaper citing sources close to the situation.
3i, Morgan Stanley and HSBC were not immediately available to comment

Can we take it that the rolling stock would be leased; cutting the costs of the capital project but swelling the ongoing overhead? i.e. That the figures quoted do not pay for the entire project?

@micky_p wrote:

When we lodged initially an Taisce made an observation that we should be refused, on location on site and house design. My client met with the person from an Taisce and we basically changed everything they wanted.

How did the member of AT request the changes you assert that they wanted?

@micky_p wrote:

My client had to do site improvement works which cost about 3,000 and the prick from an Taisce knew this, let her go ahead and still objected after we consulted them.
I had outlined all this in our response to the Bord but no joy.

After the Citywest saga I’m amazed anyone in the profession commited resources to anything other planning applications in the absence of a full verified planning consent. You can’t blame an objector for your client for taking a risk by spending money before they had secured full consent.

Bank costs to swell deficit – ESRI
Wednesday, 14 July 2010 07:00
The Economic and Social Research Institute says the cost of providing extra capital to Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide will have to be included in the national accounts, and will push the government deficit from 11.5% to 19.75% of economic output – by far the highest in the developed world.

The ESRI also says money to tackle long-tern unemployment is better spent on training schemes than on building infrastructure.

In its latest quarterly survey of the Irish economy, the ESRI sees little difference to its previous outlook, with the economy broadly flat this year and modest growth next year.

But what has changed is the announcement in March of E12.9 billion of extra capital for Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide. This injection is by way of promissory note – a type of IOU under which cash can be drawn down over a ten-year period as the institutions require.

The ESRI believes the EU statistics agency Eurostat and other international bodies will want that liability written into the national accounts in full this year. That would have the effect of increasing the government deficit from the department of finance target of 11.5% to almost 20%.

The ESRI also cautions against using infrastructure spending as a job creation mechanism, saying its research suggests that money is better spent on improving workers’ skills through training programmes for long-term sustainable results.

Time to look at a bad bank split for Anglo; it is ludicrous that Anglo bonds are trading as junk and yet the government continues to pump new money in with a presumption that all bond holders will receive 100% of their money.

With NAMA the main banks such as AIB and BOI took significant write downs on the value of their property loans; why shouldn’t the bond investors who are now buying these bonds well below face value not face same as opposed to tax payers being burdened with paying for their short term profit the majority of which accrue only well after the crash resulting in taxpayers paying for this for decades to come. As BOI and AIB are now perceived to have made significant progress the downside risks appear dramatically reduced. A Nigerian Oil Field is very indicative of the approach to risk……………

Not convinced if Inda is to get elected he like Garret in Nov 1982 will win a swathe of seats in Dublin; if Inda has one skill it is understanding populism; if he understands the implications of unpopularity he will not condemn commuters in North and South Kildare, East Meath, Louth, Wicklow East, Dun Laoghaire, DSE, DNE, Dublin North, DNW, Dublin West, Dublin Central, DSW to crush loaded unconnected rail for a prolonged period. If he were to consider Metro he’d definitely bin it other than serving his old sparring partner Richard Bruton’s DNC and Swords it doesn’t hit much else….

Beyond political considerations building Luas North from Swords to DCU as planned minus the elevated section/tunnel at Old Ballymun and going on street to Botanic Road into a tunnel to the dried out canal bed before continuing on Steet from Constitution Hill to O’Connell Street and integrating Green BX with its third rail technology represents an affordable and workable solution that balances connections the need for connections to Swords, the Airport and Ballymun with a set of public finances that will consign the electorate to revolving Dails for the next 2 decades such will be the unpopularity of each government elected should they stick together for a five year set of austere budgets. Should the fiscal position not be as bleak as the bond hawks would lead you to believe and should Luas North not be as efficient as it should be then there is the option of building a line underground from DCU to Ranelagh to deliver a completely segregated Luas Green from Cherrywood to Swords by connecting the bit in the middle with a larger inner city tram network.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

I disagree, and I am very familiar with the object of the interconnector.

To a very large extent the city is starting with a clean slate in that there are currently a number of number of disparate elements in existence but also large parts of the city which are very remote from anything other than the bus. The interconnector helps to link these disparate elements together but should also, if the development of many other cities is anything to go by, be a starting point from which other public transport developments (particularly to areas currently served only by the bus) could eventually take place.

This route is almost the final piece of the jigsaw there are no proposals for other new rail lines; it is designed purely to funnel capacity from existing elements of the system into a mix areas some fully developed such as Stephens Green and Christchurch, some half completed such as the North and South Docklands and some seriously underdeveloped such as Heuston and Inchicore. Yes there will be additional expenditure on electrification of the Kildare and Maynooth lines but make no mistake as far as underground goes this is the end game for at least another 10 years.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

In fairness PVC, just because the city boomed in those circumstances is irrelevant. Dublin should be aiming to build a decent public transport system, not one where we see a DART station at St. Stephen’s Green as “serving” locations like Adelaide Road, Fitzwilliam Place, Harcourt Road, etc. As you said yourself, people wishing to get to Adelaide Road would probably change onto the Luas, I’m saying that people who wish to get to Fitzwilliam Place probably would eventually do the same (unless the weather’s very nice).

As stated above Stephens Green is a walk but College Green a trek from all these locations.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

I’ve said it before that there is no point building a longer, more expensive route if the reasons for making it longer will have to be superseded by other developments (such as a Luas line heading in the direction of Leeson Street or Baggot Street Bridge) which will need to happen if Dublin is eventually to have a decent transport network.

With your points about crush loaded trains I get the distinct impression you are trying to persuade me of the merits of the interconnector. I don’t need to be persuaded of that, and never have. I just don’t see the merits of St. Stephen’s Green as a location on the route. It has its part to play as a position on the eventual network, but there are a number of very serious problems with it.

The cost implications of using Stephens Green and not College Green are not large; there would be a similar length tunnel as any tunnel has to surface North of Newcommen Junction (East Wall) to acheive physical seperation between the Northern and Maynooth Lines; the number of stations would be identical i.e. Stephens Green substituted for College Green, Pearse for Tara St and Spencer Dock for Connolly.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

Chiefly, demand to get to the most notable areas of Georgian Dublin and places like Adelaide Road dies completely after about 9:30 a.m. on weekdays and is non-existent at weekends. Demand to get from those areas, also non-existent at weekends, really comprises just 2-3 hours in the late afternoon/early evening. So for the lion’s share of the week it is effectively like the southside DART line, with no catchment area on one side of the line.

On the other hand the area around College Green would appear to be busy all the time, with a nice wide, consistently busy catchment area on both sides of the line.

In other words, the direct route, seemingly busier, and thus far no figures to justify deviation from it.

Look at an Ariel shot of Stephens Green West and compare same with College Green The urban grain clearly shows that the land around Stephens Green is significantly more intensively used following redevelopment. Public transport is not about counting drunks at 3am it is about getting commuters to and from work to pay their mortgages.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

Sorry PVC, where did I assert that longer pedestrian journeys will assist commuters? I’m puzzled.

You’ve got to remember that the capacity of the interconnector is vast and, in comparison, the capacity of the Red line is effectively irrelevant. The interconnector is a rapid rail line which will be capable of delivering large amounts of people rapidly into and out of the city. There is, in my opinion, no point building the wrong route for the interconnector just because a more central route might in some way interfere with what is going on on a fairly slow, low-capacity tram line.

Simply because you seem to think that journey times to Adelaide Rd / Fitz Place are so important; if you are right then what is wrong with building Metro North as planned in as far as DCU; going on street from there and if in the highly unlikely event that delivery of the ‘sacred elements’ of the Dublin Transport plan as per their geographical footprint were not successful then building the construction of the second part of one element Metro North i.e. the expensive phase to connect DCU and Luas Green could be acheived in a much more meaningful way i.e. meeting the Green line at say Ranelagh in 10 – 20 years time via College Green , Stephens Green, Fitzwilliam Square done at Wilton Place on Heritage grounds and to bring it closer to Upp Baggot St, Burlington Rd etc. I have no doubt that IC will work perfectly but by deferal of the outsized cost sections of MN then insurance is created for your doubts.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

And no, I’m not saying a third one will then be built. Why would it?:confused: Dublin’s not such a big city that a central east-west interconnector in combination with the existing DART and a few Luas/Metro lines running broadly from the northside to the southside shouldn’t be able to cater for most needs.

The red line might have a role to play in such a scenario, but as a form of rapid mass transit – largely irrelevant.

Any capacity is relevant and to concentrate all capacity in a narrow corridor that would be a mere 500m apart for the entire routing from Heuston to Connolly would be a very narrow view and to the detriment of offices areas further south.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

Figures, please.

I have at least referenced the bus route figures and the O’Reilly Consultants metro report.

You’ve produced no figures, but then, in fairness to you, neither have any of the organisations involved in this project.

But I’d certainly like to see them. And not the figures for this mythical extended St. Stephen’s Green about which most proponents of the circuitous route seem to be talking about, i.e., all of Georgian Dublin between the Green and the Canal, Adelaide Road, Charlemont Street, Harcourt Road, Harrington Street, etc.

I’d like to see figures for an area within, say, 500 metres of all the entrances of the proposed St. Stephen’s Green interconnector station – as I’ve pointed out, places beyond that will need to be served by other public transport developments (such as Luas extensions) in the future, if Dublin is to have a decent transport network on a par with other cities.

So, to reiterate, not figures for the extended St. Stephen’s Green.

When the reality on the ground in terms of development patterns why do a Metro West in terms of spending taxpayer funds to examine the obvious; development patterns exist in south Dublin 2 they never did for Metro West. As previously posted; there are a long list of large commercial buildings in the vicinity of Stephens Green taking just St Green SC and the BoSI office building which in itself probably provides as much commercial space as a 3 minute walk of college Green excluding the Central bank which is itself a punishing 5 minute walk from the Luas Red Line.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

Well, you’re saying that there is no dispute. But we’re dealing with the highest capacity line ever to be built across Dublin.

So, figures, please.

And do remember, that as a central interconnector route would have a role to play on both the northside and the southside, given the catchment area around College Green (or a location in its vicinity), when you’re working out stuff about office cores, retail cores, tourist cores, etc.

As for development, the only development which I am advocating is an underground interchange in or near, but preferably in, College Green.

Something similar to the interchange in, for example, Munich’s Marienplatz. Dig it up, put in the interchange, cover it over, then it can be nicely tucked away under a splendid pedestrianised area but still capable of delivering vast numbers of people right into the centre, and distributing them to areas in the centre and non-central areas.

The city centre is already there, it doesn’t really need to be further developed.

Lets have 2 portals on in the BoI banking Hall at 2 College Green and the other in TCD; this is not an area to dig up; Luas BX with a third rail versus suspending wiring would be a sufficient intervention. Anything else would be problematic.

@Seamus O’G wrote:

This is all very well for what the situation should be when other public transport developments, such as the Luas link-up, have happened. The An Lar mentality arose because they didn’t, or haven’t, and the bus figures I referred to were based on a city where the necessary public transport developments hadn’t – and largely still haven’t – happened. The situation should of course be changed when they do.

You have a lot more faith in DB to change than I; I largely agree with your analysis of the origins but see that it will take a very firm hand to shake DB up into a team player versus a self interest group.

I would go to the planning department check the file and look at the landlord’s consent on the file; with many buildings it may be that the ‘management company’ of the flats above retains all upper parts and that notwithstanding the planning consent that there may be alternative remedies available to you; should this be the case then flat owners like you would need to have granted consent. Should they not have valid landlord’s consent then it may also invalidate their application as they would not have secured the ‘valid title’ for what they applied for. If the restaurant is owner occupied and if they are in effect your landlord then you are sunk with this avenue as they would control all areas of the building not demised (on lease) to all other occupiers in the building. Should the building not be controlled by the restaurant owner then whilst I am not advocating that you stop paying either ground rent and or service charges if the property is managed by an agent I would advise that you express your complete displeasure and ask for justification on the grounds of ‘good estate management’ and ask for confirmation that the installation is fully compliant with the terms of their occupational lease.

What I would do regadless of planning is take a photographic survey of the installation and take close up photos of the installation as it is possible that the additional imposed weight load may cause repairing issues down the line which you do not wish to pay for down the line in terms of higher service charge contributions. To fully evidence your position I would ensure that you take photos of the equivelent area to the other side of the door and at any point into the building where any pipework associated with the plant enters their unit.

I’d also contact environmental health to ascertain if there are any additional regulations pertaining to the installation of commercial ventilation equipment within specific distances of residential units in mixed use schemes.

@Cathal Dunne wrote:

When are they breaking ground on this project? It should be a great addition to the city given that it will boost capacity on the Dublin rail network. That should encourage more people to use trains and ease traffic congestion around Town further. Hopefully the Phoenix Park Tunnel is developed so that we can have a northside line on the new Dublin Underground.

Not convinced of the strategic value of the PP tunnel once IC is completed; totally sure that de Nartcide will have four DART lines to the Southside’s 2 once the Maynooth/Pace Sections are electrified. More critically the ability to run 5 minute or lower frequencies at peak time on the Maynooth/ Pace sections (post where they merge) will be real progress and allow much higher densities and vastly reduced door to door journey times.

I also favour a fifth Northside Dart line; a spur to the North bank of the liffey at Lucan; less than a mile in length it would probably be about roughly €950m cheaper than the proposed Luas alternative.