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@Devin wrote:
Yes PVC, but the ‘detail’ is not really the problem; it’s just a symptom of the actual problem which is the shocking, abject failure of the authority to have overall management of the area in place; that no one is in charge.
But that assumes that one would have a ‘Paving Tzar’ or at least a heritage officer with adequate resources or clout. This clearly is not the case and as such it is important that those with authority to rule between competing objectives need to be aware of the consequences of them not heeding conservation issues in relation to paving.
What one does not wish to see is the continued drip srip loss of original kerbing, paving and cobbles over time with a sudden realisation in 10 years time that it is then time to give up on many streetscapes that can now be salvaged at the mere cost of co-ordinating work permits for utility and paving contracts. What would be a good start would be if the conservation officer had to sign off all works permits for paving/utility works within agreed specified locations.
@tommyt wrote:
Apparentley DCC shell out a fair few quid in compo each year for damaged cycles (and people!) from poorly maintained cobbles. I remember an aquantaince wrecking his bike and breaking his ankle on loose cobbles covered in grease from a poorly emptied wheelie bin. They payed out a sizable sum without so much as a blink.
Lucky for DCC that the claimant in that particular instance was honest enough only to claim for damage to his bicycle and a modest sum and not an extended loss of earnings or exaggerated personal injury. Given the amount of grease that gets poured down drains and spilled on streets there may be some milage in enforcing restuarants to fill out additional waste transfer paperwork on all cooking oils; particularly given that it can now be recycled.
BTW – Good thread a lot of silly stuff going on in Temple Bar; if the area is ever to move up the food chain and away from lower quartile UK stag weekends which are decimated as an underlying trade basis once sterling falls then the Devin school of thought on public realm must trump the road engineering approach in what is pretty much the only small urban grain type tourist spot left in the City. Time for a second edition of Dubinspirations; the problem here is not intentional damage its an important ‘detail’ factor that has unfortunately slipped from the consciousness of more than a few stakeholders……
@tommyt wrote:
PVCK ; You know you’re in trouble when Kevin Myers starts agreeing with you:o:o:o
Outside of the cost/benefit purgatory of this thread it’s gone somewhat unnoticed that there is a PQQ out at the minute for CIE to redevelop their East Wall shunting area for mixed use to include a new bus interchange AND retains the rail link down the Alex Road to the Port. If this grows legs/credibility at a sufficient pace an express coach link exploiting the tunnel and Dart Uground/LUAS linkages must surely be the final nail in the coffin for MN.
Indeed, never known Frank and Kev to see eye to eye before, whats next John Waters and Eoghan Harris joining them for an IT love in!!!!
CIE should have done this as soon as the Port Tunnel was green lit; you can just see the NAMA number crunchers adding €5 per square foot on the rental values (finished product) for the massive holdings of office development land they have down there.
Adding you to my ignore list isn’t the point; firstly I usually like your posts and might want to read them on topics and second, the posts you make here prompt a response which I would end up reading.
Again, my problem isn’t with your Metro opinion and I amn’t dreaming, the point I’m making is that repeating the same arguements again and again and with the full force of sarcasm and stern language creates a ranty atmosphere! The fact you used my post as an excuse to repeat your view of the Metro North and again end up at the end of the thread, well, all I can say is aaaahhhh.
Anyway, I tried.
Patrick Kavanagh was a very astute observer one of his better quotes is “In all the World money is important, in Ireland nothing else is important”
I have always respected your posts you have a good eye for the visual and no doubt contribute a lot to TCD in your field. I just want to see TCD grow along with all the other educational institutes to get the country out of the mess it is in by developing knowledge; get out of the mess and there is the next 1,000 years to plan infrastructure.
Just add PVC to your ignore list and carry on dreaming.
Couldn’t agree more.
Notjim
If you want to start another thread extolling the virtues of a project that I see as symptomatic of how the boom was blown and why the International community just doesn’t get Ireland Inc. just now; then be my guest; I undertake not to post one single character; I add only one condition you must be the thread starter.
But if GPs were allocated funding per patient they would need to go to a lot of meetings.
The UK experiment of attempting to remove the ‘professional management layer’ and have doctors manage patients is clearly untried but may produce a clearer answer as to who is best to manage health outcomes. If successful it may have very interesting architectural consequences as GPs agglomerate to provide 24 * 7 cover in purpose built facilities.
@vca wrote:
TOO EXPENSIVE
Answer: This is law and is necessary. While there is a cost, there is nothing extra being charged.
Assessment of those not having architectural qualifications, as a once off exercise, is necessarily a complex process with the need for a whole range of checks and balances, audit trails etc. A detailed report on costs has been submitted to the Minister as all costs have to be approved. The cost being proposed, of the order of €6,300 is the actual cost to the RIAI as the Registration Body. RIAI receives no State funding; the process is required to be self-funding. The costs have been investigated and audited by an independent firm of Accountants experienced in forensic work and this has also
been submitted to the Minister for his decision.I take issue with this; I recently qualified in another built environment profession. The examination process cost £275; I worked very hard for 2 years to get through this and with a lot of experience I was lucky enough to pass first time; to prove it is not a doddle all fellow candidates had relevant professional undergraduate or masters conversion course degrees; the failure rate is still 40%.
€6,300 is an unfair restraint on trade in my book; the RIAI should be performing this function not a private body.
@Peter Fitz wrote:
I could live with Ruairà Quinn as Mayor, though in truth the office holder will have little more power than the existing office holder.
Ideally the role of the new Mayor & Dublin City Manager should be subsumed, but the City Council seem determined to hold on to their coveted trophy post. God forbid the people of Dublin should determine who actually runs their city.
Your only hope of getting real action from the elected mayor is to elect someone with a high enough media profile to be larger than the office. One only has to look at Mary Robinson in a role with no real power whatsoever; it would have been a very foolish politician or civil servant that would have tried to oppose her such was her ability to go right through the grey area to the edge of the line on any issue she wished to promote; despite her lack of statutory power.
With Pauls endorsement it seems that the bid seems to have near universal support on the board.
The meeting on the motion re: the Bus lanes is this afternoon at 4pm. Due to a change in plans I will be heading along. will update when I can.
I could live with Ruairà Quinn as Mayor, though in truth the office holder will have little more power than the existing office holder.
Ideally the role of the new Mayor & Dublin City Manager should be subsumed, but the City Council seem determined to hold on to their coveted trophy post. God forbid the people of Dublin should determine who actually runs their city.
@Cathal Dunne wrote:
The 20% of GDP deficit point is irrelevant on three levels. The first is that it relates to this year and this year only and is inflated by once-off payments re. the banking situation. It will be resolved over the course of the Government’s austerity programme to 2014. The second is that the Government capital programme has already been adjusted to reflect the new reality. Planned capital expenditure is down 40% on previous levels. MN is part of the 60% which the Government decided to continue with. We have to have a capital programme of new projects in this country otherwise when the economy is back to strong growth, the same infrastructural deficits which caused havoc during the boom will crop up again. Finally, if you’re worried about our bank-bloated deficit, I would be much more bothered by the €4 billion we’re spending on Irish Nationwide than Metro North. At least MN will be something useful when its built rather than the black hole INBS is proving to be.
The deficit for 2009 was also in double digits and amongst the highest in the OECD. The 2011 situation will also be horrendous as will 2012.
This is true if you’re coming from Heuston via Phoenix Park Tunnel or Connolly. However, if you are from Ulster and travelling, its of no use. Instead you could park at Lissenhall or Dardistown and get Metro rest of way. If you are returning to Town from a match to celebrate in city centre pubs, it’s of no use. Instead you can get Metro to OCS/Stephen’s Green and there you are. If you are staying in the Shelbourne and have a conference at Croke Park, you can take MN from Stephen’s Green to Croker. This is also true if you are a tourist and you want to go to the GAA Museum from Town.
That view of Ireland just about sums your views up; people who do conferences at Croke Park don’t stay at the Shelbourne; the country does not need another €2bn – €5bn in debt to design a transport system that facilitates a number of two hour sporting events.
Well international financiers who deal with billions in their own and clients’ money have made the decision to buy Irish government paper in such volumes that we have been able to finance our borrowings well ahead of time so I choose to believe them over you. Ireland has had several brushes with becoming like Greece – the closest being last April – however we have avoided that fate and, with our austerity programme ongoing and an international recovery, we could avoid it entirely.
The spread over bund was well over 100% in price terms last week; one pays 5.37% and the other pays 2.27%, the market is speaking and if the government had listened 2 years ago instead of granting a full amnesty to the public sector on
1. Meaningful wage readjustment
2. Staffing level realignmentas well as culling white elephant projects such as MN and the Tuam Motorway then and only then can the deficit and public finance bill be brought back into some form of normality. What people like you fail to grasp is that any modern economy thrives on credit; if the government pays x price, then the corporate companies in the economy pay x plus risk. If x = 5.37% in Ireland and 2.27% in Germany how do you expect the employment creators to compete with foreign companies and create employment.
There is no way around tacklling the deficit and as the Interconnector is the must have project; MN as an underground project must go; for all your whining about a few road works; the only way such a project could be justified would be if the entire car-driven sprawl were gridlocked, which it is not bus times from Dublin Airport to the CC are 30 mins; as Green Luas has shown; Luas is more than adequate at clearing traffic and getting passengers from A to B.
I’m not convinced that Joe Higgins could work with anyone other than Joe Higgins; CC has undoubted qualities but his skill set although similar in background is far less well developed than Ruairi Quinn; envisage a scenario where CC goes to Europe for information on a particular municipal provision; Hi I’m CC a former Junior Minister in the Irish Government that oversaw financial armageddon.
Compare that to RQ; HI I’m RQ current VP & Treasurer of the European Socialist Party, Former Finance Minister during the sustainable phase of the boom and former chair of ECOFIN.
RQ is probably the only chance the City will get for a European weight politician with a built environment background and economic credibility.
@OisinT wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with you… but lets not talk about getting banks involved in this mess. FFS we can’t even get visa/mastercard debit cards that will actually work online or outside of the country.
The reason I suggest banks to run it is that the competitive advantage a single bank would gain through having THE CARD of choice would ensure that they would pay a large premium; this premium should pay for a far superior ticket barrier system and reader system than what is currently in use. As funds are tight this basically raises private sector funding and a potential premium in excess of that at a time when funds are tight. A study of the Octupus experience would be a very good start….
I note a number of contributors suggesting that you cut cost; the multiple between material costs and the cost of constructing/fitting materials rose to unsustainable levels of double digit multiples during the boom as those with the track record could get massive premiums for reputation. There are now a number of contractors who have over-corrected and offer good value just to keep key staff employed for an upturn they perceive as occuring in 2011/12.
If the cottage is somewhere like Rush or Skerries then I’d say (as an ex-pat) that in the long run values will come back as they are really pleasant places to live. I’d suggest not compromising on the materials but try to squeeze the contractors under the supervision of an architect to enforce quality and sit on it as a buy to let investment. If your yield is 2% or greater over your finance costs then subject to getting an architect who will get you the original design at 2010 construction prices then that you have a very attractive opportunity to take a long view if you have access to finance.
@cheebah wrote:
I attended the consultation process for this. The south circular option for cycling is definitely off the agenda, cyclists are expected to use bus lane going inbound and outbound the narrower traffic lane is a safer option for cyclists according to city council. Research shows this etc etc. :). In that regard, i’m surprised that local green rep James Nix has embraced the plan so much. I think the plans should have been tweaked to accomodate cycling more.
As I said before lost opportunity.
Dan’s suggestion regards removing bus stops has got coverage in Limerick Leader. Someone should be talking for the residents- probably in the region of 20-30 % who actually do want bus lane.My suggestion got somewhat garbled in the Leader but it was basically correct, if the Green route is rejected and it is seriously suggested that the Green lanes come into the city via the Dock rd. then Bus Eireann should give immediate notice to change their route and to remove all bus stops after the Crescent, and go down the SC, and Ashbourne to the Dock rd. And plan to run the route purely to service the suburbs and the city centre. If people along the route don’t want the bus then let them do without it.
That sounds like the only viable alternative route as there is no other means to access the Dock rd from the main artery into the city that would be able to take the buses without major works being required, and also only by avoiding the Crescent (if you were to go down Father Russell to get to the Dock road. Note it would be the county that would have to make those road modifications. Do they realise that the county and city councils won’t exist in their current form in a few months time?)
The rather bonkers response from the Mayor is that it is Expressway buses that are causing on congestion on the O’Connell Ave., Ballinacurra stretch of road into the city. How many buses per hour would Bus Eireann run down that route? Given that buses going south (to Kerry and the like) out of the city go down Hyde road these days and the buses to Cork head to the bypass to get on the dual carriageway ASAP.
When was the last time the Mayor got an express-way bus, I wonder? So a dozen or so buses per hour are causing congestion, but many hundreds of cars aren’t a factor at all.
I also noted the argument made by a business person from the area about people going by his premises in buses at 50 mph! First up, it’s pretty damn hard to do 50 mph on that stretch of road at the best of times, 2ndly it would be illegal to do so, and 3dly how does making the buses go more slowly help his business?
I’m not saying these people are thick but they’ve giving us little evidence that they’re using their brains at all.
Fair point; one group has gold plated pension provisions and inflated salaries and perform a function that the private sector have no interest in; the other group has the same benefits but perform a function that the private sector may have an interest in.
Ultimately neither group would enjoy a similar remuneration package if same were decided by the market; both groups should act in the public interest and to get back on point; CIE and the RPA should be capable of providing a single ticket that is predicted on
1. Season/Monthly/Weekly tickets being the majority ticket type
2. That is based on touching in versus loading tickets through a reader
3. That has ancillary payment options such as the OctupusI have no doubt a bank would pay for the right to run such a service; think about it you buy a season ticket in December (to avoind the annual rise) and the bank gets the use of your money to be paid to the transport company over 12 months; not like there is a shortage of bank staff around at the moment.
No intergrated ticketing almost 6 years into Transport 21 is simply unacceptable…..
Please don’t talk about Hong Kong; it makes me want to cry thinking about Dublin when you consider the Octupus card not only lets you use all public transport by touching versus loading tickets through a reader; but the coffee in your left hand was probably paid for with the cash balance on your card.
Why can’t a deal be done with a bank to handle all transport payments on a card that can handle any puchase from participating retailers up to say €10 in the City as well?
This technology has been around for years, might it be that the various arms of CIE and the RPA who are all civil servants simply cannot be forced to do what is in the public interest?
A circuitous route which is a lot longer than the one possible with MN. MN links up the airport, DART, Luas, Interconnector, buses and cars (via Park-and-Ride facilities) and transforms the public transport network on the Northside.
In addition to this, once MN is completed, it will be possible to upgrade the Luas Green line to a Metro South and provide Dublin with a high-speed north-south underground corridor.
Metro North is about re-shaping the face of Dublin and making it a city in which public transport works.
7 mins to pearse, 2 min interchange and 2 mins to St Green is cumbersome?
The deficit is almost 20% of GDP…….
Where did you get the 50-60% discount from? I said that due to the recession tender prices had fallen 20-30%. This is reasonable considering the fall in demand generally. Using the €5bn figure as a guide, this puts the gross cost of MN at about €3.5-4bn. Allow for the PAYE, PRSI, Income levies on the wages of builders and the VAT on materials and the net cost could easily be €2bn or lower. For a major piece of public infrastructure, that would represent a bargain.
It is a Luas line…… The original costs floated were €4bn-€5bn, costs don’t tumble by 50% – 60% and then present opportunities for further savings… Dublin Central would create as many jobs and wouldn’t cost the state anything on the balance sheet.
We’ve already got €500m from the EIB, the PPP aspect of the project will raise further funds and the Government can meet the rest.
We’ll come back to the PPP element
Quite easy indeed. We raised all our borrowing requirements for 2009 by September of that year and we now have raised all our borrowings for 2010 this week. We can now proceed to funding 2011 requirements and continue the process. This is all in an environment in which our fiscal situation has been as parlous as Greece’s. The fact that the IMF and EU are in Athens now rather than Dublin speaks volumes of NTMA’s ability to chart a safe course through turbulence for us.
The Greeks got nailed for their off balance sheet tricks of trying to disguise PPP loans, their bond rates are now north of 11%, keep behaving like nothing has changed and the IMF won’t be long coming in to sort out the national household. Just build it as a surface Luas line to the Airport and assess the options when the IMF are sorting out Mali on 10 years time.
Sounds like it might possibly be an instance of arse covering; far too many pi claims flying about these days.
If you get on Dart at Drumcoundra and change at Pearse you can get off at Stephens Green; you have travelled South; for O’Connell St change at Connolly for Luas.
The cost we are led to believe has fallen from €4bn – €5bn to €2bn; a discount of between 50%-60% that line is dry if it were ever credible.
Over the pre-development and development stage €500m or 25% or cost could have been raised, during the first decade of operation another €500m or 25% of the cost could have been raised. I would hardly call 50% of the funding source an issue that can moved on from; it is fatal and only a credible replacement of these levies will get MN out of ‘Un built Ireland’
Now we move to the replacement funding; Bund 2.37% Irish 10 Year Paper 5.38%, J-Bills 0.95%, T-Bills 2.65%, Easy to raise money you are having a laugh.
