a boyle
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ok yes they do spend a lot, but we should think carefully before we sink our money. The uk did run all parts of the world which have ever produced any wealth. That has allowed them to build up fantastic transport . (But note not as good as germany as they wasted a lot ).
We have only had money for twenty years (since we enter the eu). All things considered we are not doing to badly, the motorway network is moving full steam ahead. There are two tram lines built.
And a complete set of trains have been bought.I would caution you corkonians to be wary of greeks bearing gifts! look over what i have suggested a dedicated ,segregated bus service could work. If decent buses (airconditioned) were bought they could be comfortable. As the roadway is in place all that is needed are some decent platforms with perhaps architect designed bus stops. After that some political will to remove roadway from other users.
Our tram cost 750 million. We took so long to build it that now it is already full all the time. as a result we are building a loony metro , instead of more trams to spread the load. We will sure find ourselves in a vat of debt , and no country to colonise , which all our european neighbour had the advantage of.
good point reargding shannon subsidies.
I still don’t think it is fair the debt be moved just because previously shannon received handouts.
exactly how does the 48a route relate to what i propose ?
The 48a bus comes every twenty minutes, shares the same road space as cars vans trucks etc. etc. It also doesnt have priority at traffic lights. Because the prepaid tickets are difficult to get and unreliable , almost everyone pays when boarding.
Trying to compare this with a double articulated airconditioned bus which is segregated from traffic sitting in the center of a road, with bus stops in the center of the road (like a tram), and using the same ticketing system as the luas is beyond retarded . Dim in fact.
As the aircoach is successful, it points to you being tottally wrong about people refusing to use buses.
People will use what works .
With respect to cork airports debt. If this new terminal is so rooted in economics sense and not a pure piece of government pork , then why oh why does my irish times repeatedly tell me that i will have to pay for cork airport debt, through higher landing charges ? Could you please explain that one to me in one sentence.
for disagreeing with you thomond ? hardly .
The good people who use the new ashbourne road should pay for every penny spent , with a nice juicy toll .
regards buses , your defeatist attitude, while unsurprising , is depressing. Aircoach seems pretty popular to me. I think you have misconstrued ,current shoddy practise with potential.
With respect to a transport connection between cork airport and cork city.
Reserving the two central lanes on the south link road , and segregating them from the other lanes through the use of those little plastic bollards, would sort out any encroachment problems.Regards comfort (stigma) the use of airconditioning would sort that out.
Regards capacity. have a look at http://busexplorer.com/PHP/MidPage.php?id=870
http://www.vanhool.com/products_bus_detail.asp?TabID=3&ID=13&ProductCategoryID=1The second link shows a vehicle with potential for doorways on both sides of a bus.
This opens up the prospect of in effect building a service very close to that of a tram (with faster times , as buses are permitted to go faster). With stops in the center of the road and at the edge of the road.
I would also point out that much of the discontent that exists with any public transport is due to the lack of airconditioning (luas included).
Finally trying to maintain that buses don’t work because there are too many bus stops is retarded. Nothing works if there are too many stops , be it tram train or bus.
fine no problem , build a tram (you don’t need it – a airconditioned bus network would be a better idea) , but don’t ask dublin to pay for it.
And moreover pay for your own airport terminal , thank you very much
@A-ha wrote:
😡 I mean, like, who would even consider closing three airports so a train line can be built to Shannon.
The germans would . They would build a 200 km/h route between cork limerick shannon and galway, with four stops only. the trip time would be 38 minutes. Then they would build a 300 km/h train between dublin and shannon. They would close the lines between galway and dublin and cork and dublin. Every one would save time overall.
And yes in fact the best idea is to build one single airport in the center of the country with four independant terminals. Set up a seperate government owned company to auction of each time slot to each terminal, thus minimizing the monopoly.
The advantage of this is huge , you would no longer need to go through heathrow AT ALL to go to different places.
Of course people like thomond park run this country , thinking that you provide infrastructure where people want it. While this sounds nice it is in fact the worst thing you can do . It is why there are traffic jams on the m50.
Instead dublin cork and shannon will all remain provincial and the country will continue to suffer the expense and time of having to go through heathrow, in order to get to many destinations. But clearly you all know better. what we have at the moment obviously works so well .
you have mixed up does with could.
vis a vis other first world countries having good rail link. let us keep some perspective. have a look a france’s network and you will see that ours is a lot more comprehensive with regard to smaller towns.
Now to repeat if you closed cork and built a proper high speed rail connection shannon would have a much bigger catchment area , thus supporting more routes.
better again is infact closing all the airports and build a new one in the center of the country
i think i shall have to object.
Is one allowed to object on the basis of poor architecture ?
I cannot understand this proposal. This spot has potential to please everybody: the planners the public the developer the architect (and us losers !). What i mean is trade quality for height. I would have no problem with a very tall slender structure , like the one pictured earlier on this thread.
Just don’t get it . looks like a duplo building.
mickey docs is spot on. one single airport in the center of the country would be a great idea.
There are two things that might make the idea falter (possibly!).
One you are creating a monopoly. so we could all end up gouged. however if four terminal were built and indepentantly owned and operated then you could be onto .
The second reason why it is a good idea but a diificult one to implement is that it would require a huge amount a air traffic to pass over populated areas. in shannon and dublin are close to the sea.
Of course if a high speed rail connection existed between cork and shannon , then the logical next step would be to create a high speed dublin / shannon / limerick rail link . Then decommision the dublin to cork line.
scrapping cork is the correct thing to do. instead of investing in cork airport , investing in a new direct rail link from cork to limerick and on to shannon is the best thing you could have done with the 180 million euro invested in cork airport.
That way you would have a rail link between cork and ennis (with a real chance of it continuing to galway) AND an airport with an catchment population comparable to dublin.
Intead you have a provincial airport which will never bring the same choice of destinations as shannon could.
However if shannon and cork can both survive then all the better , but if there is a choice it is quite clear that shannon is preferable.
a planning enforcement has gone out a few weeks ago on eurocycles (south william street). obviously nothing has happened . is there something else i need to do ?
the relative cost is not that important to my point . What is am trying to get at is that it is the interest of the whole western side of the country to have an airport that is in the middle , that way all three cities are within range.
As i said a good bit of money spent on a top notch rail link would mean the the airport was closer to all three cities than charles de gaul is to paris.
Having a large airport nearby means that there will be a greater variety of routes on offer. This is only a good thing. You gain from the demand from the three cities. You would expect a high frequency route to develop to london and a regular routing to america.
I have included two pictures which illustrate france and germanys approach to road building. The difference could not be starker. france built motorways where people currently wanted to go , while germany ignored current needs and decided where were allowed to go. You will notice that germanys grid approach means that more people can go more places faster. Paris in the mean time has ridiculous traffic problems .
I don’t really want to talk at length about all this because i reckon we will just disagree. So if there is a good retort then post it , otherwise let’s just agree to disagree.
you need to look at this on a national basis. cork has enough to support a small airport . but if shannon was connected with a railway line to galway limerick and cork it could no doubt support 20 million people a year.
you would need to have two track the whole way between cork and galway. If you built them to 200 km/h spec. it would only take about 40 minutes. That is no skin off anyone’s nose. It take much longer to get to dublin airport from parts of dublin.
but if you had it in shannon it would be within reach of all the people on the eastern side of the country , a big number.
the reason i say that the hundred and eighty million (a number that appears to be in dispute , but even if it cost only 80 million it doesn’t matter). Yes say it cost eighty million. Well ryanair built on in germany with the same capacity for 18 million. I understand that what is built in cork has plummeted the airport in debt , which the ‘company’ is petrified of. So i think i can safely say the money was squandered.
If you wanted to spend 180 million on cork , having built a railway line to galway, you could build a short light rail route which passed by the busiest parts of cork. That would be better for everyone.
In is a bit obnoxious but germany did it and they have no traffic jams. You do not build roads trains airports where people are currently going or would like to go. You built these things where you want people to go. !! So if you look at a map of the german motorway system there are almost no direct motorway connection between cities. It is a tough idea to get your head around but it is the right way to do things (it just pisses off a lot of people until it is done —> of course that is how you know you are doing the right thing!!)
i am sorry thomond , but i cant agree. cork airport is has barely a few million , simply not enough to justify such an investment.
There is huge dishonesty on the part of all politicians as to what is needed and appropriate for ireland. I would argue forcefully that cork limercik and galway would be much better served by an eastern railway shuttle service and one single airport at shannon. cork has already burned sackfulls of money on a beautifull white elephant of an airport terminal , please don’t compound the problem!!
Closing cork airport and introducing a fast shuttle service to shannon would be overall a sustainable answer. Such a trainline could be built with a short travel time. cork to shannon is only 128 km.
Instead of squandering 180 million on this terminal , that would have gone some way to building a 200 km/h trainline from cork to shannon. Then the travel time would only be some 35 minutes or so .
the plain and simple fact is that the whole current terminal need to be demolished. It has been extended and extended too many times.
If you look at the airport in google map , it really shows up how wastefull the entire airport is. The is ooodles of fresh minted grass waiting to be built upon on the eastern side of the airport. What is simply needed is a long straight building running parallel to the main runway, not this hodge podge.
Indeed the airport development plan seeks to change the whole organisation into an east west system. We should be putting a long term car park to the east of the M1 and another to the north east of of the finglas m50 junction. then run a spur from the belfast train line. east west.
So whole thing would go something like this: finglas m50 junction -> long term carpark West –> short term carpark West —> east terminal –> underpass —> new west terminala (reorientated to be parralel with the runway) —> short tem carpark East —> M1 over pass (taxi rank)—> long term carpark East —> belfast train line.
Then remove all car acces from the airport —> that’s how you get things moving.
It is worth noting that the development plans points out that the reason for the second runway is that the terminal is too inneficient to make full use of the current runway. This is why i think we should avoid letting the Daa talk about the airport as a crisis, because it just lets them add little bits to the terminal, and reinforces the lodsided development, instead of sorting it out once and for all!
that is a large building , and as such extremely valuable . You would have to get a petition going now , or at least the support of some tds (suspect that fianna fail would be more usefull 🙂 🙂 🙂 )
Other wise it is unrealistic to expectic to become a museum or gallery or anything but appartments. You would need to secure a half decent amount of art in the first place. (almost all the museum/and galleries are bursting with stuff, they are in the pale however —- good luck !!!)
I have to say that odlums buildings does not get the pass mark from me , tear it down . (it is possible that is looks better in the flesh ! )
