what’s going up in Cobh

Dont get me started on the Cobh Town Council 😀

I find it very odd that when the great and good of Cork were calculating the commercial profits deriving from “culture”, at Cobh, a mere ten miles down river from the city, a serious and concerted effort to vandalise one of the most important cultural monuments in the State was well underway -indeed with the wholehearted support of some of the Corkonian good and great – and the whole affair did not as much as generate half of an inch of comment on the “cultural” columns of the quondam Cork Examiner. Indeed, I am not at all certain that the merchantile approach to “culture” displays anything of a cultured mind – certainly it would not be representative of a maecenas like Nicholas V or Sixtus IV or Julius II or Leo X or Lorenzo dei’ Medici or even Guidobaldo da Montefeltro. Somehow, I do not see the name of J. Gavin joining that elite pantheon. Are we seriously expected to believe that Cork’s committment to “culture” is not more than merely mercenary?

Has anyone heard or seen anythiing on the Cobh Marina project. word on street is that it awaiting court decision in Oct.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I find it very odd that when the great and good of Cork were calculating the commercial profits deriving from “culture”, at Cobh, a mere ten miles down river from the city, a serious and concerted effort to vandalise one of the most important cultural monuments in the State was well underway -indeed with the wholehearted support of some of the Corkonian good and great – and the whole affair did not as much as generate half of an inch of comment on the “cultural” columns of the quondam Cork Examiner. Indeed, I am not at all certain that the merchantile approach to “culture” displays anything of a cultured mind – certainly it would not be representative of a maecenas like Nicholas V or Sixtus IV or Julius II or Leo X or Lorenzo dei’ Medici or even Guidobaldo da Montefeltro. Somehow, I do not see the name of J. Gavin joining that elite pantheon. Are we seriously expected to believe that Cork’s committment to “culture” is not more than merely mercenary?

WHat monument is that?

Cobh Cathedral!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Cobh Cathedral!

Oh that? They are merely completing work that should have been done after Vatican II. If some people had their way the priest would still have his back to the congregation.

The loudest complainers are also those who would not set foot inside any place of worship apart from perhaps their own funeral.

@goldiefish wrote:

Oh that? They are merely completing work that should have been done after Vatican II. If some people had their way the priest would still have his back to the congregation.

The loudest complainers are also those who would not set foot inside any place of worship apart from perhaps their own funeral.

Ah Goldiefish, that really is too much. Take a look at the BBC World Service link kindly added by Corcaighboy on Sunday 12 September and it should clarify a few things.

I think its fair to say that had the building of the Cathedral in the last century(and before) been subject to current planning legislation it would never have been built.

That is a rather striking statement, especially when you consider that not even the most intransigent anti-Catholic bigotry of the time objected to clearing the slums that occupied the site of the Cathedral and regarded the project as a typical Victorian “improvement” scheme not only for the town but also for the country. Given the way Cobh Town Council functions, it would not surprise me that they would refuse planning permission for an “improving” measure.

@Praxiteles wrote:

That is a rather striking statement, especially when you consider that not even the most intransigent anti-Catholic bigotry of the time objected to clearing the slums that occupied the site of the Cathedral and regarded the project as a typical Victorian “improvement” scheme not only for the town but also for the country. Given the way Cobh Town Council functions, it would not surprise me that they would refuse planning permission for an “improving” measure.

Queenstown was a relatively prosperous town when work commenced on the Cathedral. The local inhabitants were doing quite well servicing the Royal Navy. The site of the Cathedral was anything but a slum – we would now consider it to be a national monument – but in the Realpolitik of the day it had to give way to Pugins handsome erection.

A bit weak on the old history Sirius!! Read it again…and we might learn something!

Social Welfare office in Cobh. Was posted here. Rofl.

@descamps wrote:

Kyte

Who got commended for designing the TV box?

The building was “highly commended” by the Opus Architecture Annual building awards sponsored by Bank of Ireland

@descamps wrote:

Who are/is the “we”? You are expressing a personal opinion and nothing else. Others including myself find this contributor most interesting and informed. It’s people like this “we” need to keep the likes of Cobh UDC on its toes.

I am sure that Cobh UDC are logging on here waiting with baited breath for our o.t.t. comments and observations..

@lawyer wrote:

O.K. I withdraw the ‘we’.
I have stated before that I do not live in Cobh nor do I know anybody on the Cobh Urban District Council. I do visit Cobh 2 or 3 times a week.
However, I think it is beyond the bounds of humour to make disparaging comments about individuals here. Personally I dont care a jot how many days holidays or when the gentleman referred to has taken.
I do think it would be stupid to build a water tower anywhered other than on high ground. The Garda Station was opened in April 2002 – 4 and a half years ago.!!. I agree the Social Welfare Office is horrid but I assume this was a Board Of Works construction that does not require planning permission.

You are a luck man not knowing anyone on (or in) the Cobh UDC.

No disparaging comments were made: anything said is a fact that can be verified under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

Just look at where they allowed the last water tower to be built. As for the other obtrusions, it takes time to get around to them – after all, Rome was not built in a day.

In a democracy, why should the Board of Works or any other state agency be above the law? Surely, all are equal under the law. And, as other have pointed out on this thread re what has been going on in Cobh, there is not an even pitch in operation when it comes to planning permission. Someone else pointed out that had he submitted plans to build the Telly-Tubby Box in exactly the same palce and to the same specifications, he would not have received permission. So why the BoW?

After all, the garda commissioner pays motor-tax on patrol cars as does the army.

@kite wrote:

The building was “highly commended” by the Opus Architecture Annual building awards sponsored by Bank of Ireland

Are the results available on the web?

@Spinal Tap wrote:

I am sure that Cobh UDC are logging on here waiting with baited breath for our o.t.t. comments and observations..

Nahhhhh. I doubt that they would have the imagination.

But, ar eagla na heagla, if they are, I hope they doing so on private rather than public time. After all, they get so little done on public time that we would not want to waste a second of it – just remember, the manageress could only spare 4 (FOUR) hours to read 214 objections. Try calculating the amount of time devoted to absorbing and ruminating the contnts of each submission!

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Names should not be mentioned as prixiteles post got a bit personal.

BTW we are all fed up with Cobh UDC rants as they are getting more obscure and longwinded paragraphs of bile.

I could not agree more. Reading the minutes of the UDC meetings is a sorry chore and one not calculated to edify. Something should be done to put a bit of order on the Cobh UDC so that the ranting they come out with can be curtailed in favour of something more constructive.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Are the results available on the web?

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000276.html

@Praxiteles wrote:

Are the results available on the web?

Not sure Praxiteles, they are on tonights evening Echo

@kite wrote:

Not sure Praxiteles, they are on tonights evening Echo

Kite

Paul Clerkin came to the rescue and produced a link to the results of the Opus awards. Under “Heritage”, I find the following:

“Heritage Award

Highly-Commended: Cobh Social Welfare Office, Cobh, Co Cork.
Office of Public Works / Cumman Construction.”

If we are talking about the TV box, are we expected to believe that this is a piece o “heritage”?

Could it possibly be anything else?

Kite!

Here is the panel of judges for the 2006 Opus Awards:

“The 2006 judging panel with chairman Ciaran O’Connor were: Noel Dowley FRIAI; Roger Dunwoody, md emeritus of Dunwoody & Dobson; Eugene Cleary, joint managing director, Cleary Doyle; and Pearse Sutton, founding partner of O’Connor Sutton Cronin Consulting Engineers”.

Now, just to be clear about it -in case I have missed something – this is what was highly commended for a HERITAGE entry in the Opus Competition. Has THE_CHRIS seen this?

So, this O’Connor chap is the assistant principal architect with the Board of Works….

The Heritage award was given to a television box in Cobh on the recommendation of the O’C chap….

The Television Box in Cobh was designed by the Board of Works….

If this is what is called HERITAGE then I would call on all self respecting architects and builders to return their Opus Awards!

(But, are we sure we are not talking abut the refurbishing of a previous location or something?)

I wonder to if the award was for the refurbishment of the old Customs House which was derelict for years. This the the red bricked south facing building. But it had a large yard at the back of it and it is to to they have latched on the TV set….
So the two are linked and public access would seem to be via the Telly….. what the plans are for the remainder of the building are I’m not sure. did hear a rumour about the Post Office moving but not sure if here…
Regardless this TV set in this location is awful.

If anyone had wording of award am sure it would clarify whether award for all or part of the ex Customs House

@Praxiteles wrote:

So, this O’Connor chap is the assistant principal architect with the Board of Works….

The Heritage award was given to a television box in Cobh on the recommendation of the O’C chap….

The Television Box in Cobh was designed by the Board of Works….

If this is what is called HERITAGE then I would call on all self respecting architects and builders to return their Opus Awards!

(But, are we sure we are not talking abut the refurbishing of a previous location or something?)

Opus Awards;
“Heritage Award”
“Highly-Commended: Cobh Social Welfare Office, Cobh, Co Cork.
Office of Public Works / Cumman Construction.”

The TV box has a sign declaring itself the Social Welfare Office so i am assuming that this pile of vile got the award?:confused:

Even in my wildest scepitcism I cnnot imagine that this got a HERITAGE award. there must be a mistake somewhere – I hope, but given the level of laziness and incompetence in Cobh Urban District Council anything is possible!

@Praxiteles wrote:

“Heritage Award

Highly-Commended: Cobh Social Welfare Office, Cobh, Co Cork.
Office of Public Works / Cumman Construction.”

Could it possibly be anything else?

That is the exact wording as published in the link cited above.

@Praxiteles wrote:

Even in my wildest scepitcism I cnnot imagine that this got a HERITAGE award. there must be a mistake somewhere – I hope, but given the level of laziness and incompetence in Cobh Urban District Council anything is possible!

I would be amazed at his award as well if it was not for the fact that Victoria Mills got the Opus highly commended award for 2005, the “beautiful gateway to the city from the West” according to the City Manager Joe Gavin and the former Lord Mayor and sex shop opener Colm Burke and possible MEP for Cork if double jobber Simon son of Hugh gets to be a Minister under Enda Kenny.:eek:

@Praxiteles wrote:

Now, just to be clear about it -in case I have missed something – this is what was highly commended for a HERITAGE entry in the Opus Competition. Has THE_CHRIS seen this?

It looks like a widescreen telly

Seriously though, are they going to paint it or is that the finished job? 😮 It’s terrible!

Although I do feel that this development is good and is needed, I nonetheless accept this delay because lets face it, the lobby group were thrown out on what was the most ridiculous technicality Ive seen in a long time.

That said, build it and stop wasting time 😀

Needed..badly needed, Cobhs last chance …. I reckon… heavy industry all but gone, tourism related business about all thta is left and the evidence is out there that boaties…spend…
spike a non starter and will most likely be a working super prison….

Courtesy of Alan, a young Cobh photographer, we are able to bring you these views of Cobh from the Harbour. It gves you an idea of the spectacular siting of the town of Cobh and of St. Colman’s Cathedral. It also gives you an idea of the stupidity of Cobh Urban District Council in allowing eye-sores like grotty water towers, phoney river-boats, and make-believe telly-tubbies to be built into this unique environment:

ANd some more of Alan’s shots from the harbour:

Looking at those photographs again, I notice a large new building in the lower righ-hand corner. Just what is that, how high is it and does it dominate the surrounding buildings?

These are Apartments built about 4 -5 years ago, horrible and block daylight from the street behind, Harbour Row, which some occupants took a few bob for the loss of their view but unfortunately many of the Harbour row premises behind this block where rented flats etc. so actual owners had little care of what was built.
It was probably the first new buildings of any form in the town area at the time and replaced many derelict
falling down properties so many believed any developement there would be an improvement. This was short lived it is awful, agian I have to say from sea it looks so out of place…but it got approval…….

A ha!

As I suspected, another example of the Cobh Urban District Council’s idleness and laziness. Are we to suppose that the town architect checked the heights of these awful things before they were built? Can it be that no more than a couple of minutes of Denis Deasey’s waking hours were available to go through the plans for this monstrosity. Can anyone explain why Cobh Urban District Council is bloody determined to sink the town by systematically eliminating everything characteristic about it commencing with the wrecking of the Cathedral, continuing with the building of ugly water towers where they will be noticed, never objecting to the permanent docking of the Mississippi Show Boat nor the dumping of a disused television set in a historical terrace and I also notice in the new photographs a large mast built further up the hill from the Cathedral. Does anyone in the Cobh Urban District Council -including the manageress – making these decisions actually live in Cobh any more?

Decision makers NO…. councillors ….YES………
Did you notice the lovely restored red bricked custom house/old mercantile marine office upriver of the block… its to back of this old building / yard they stuck on the telly tubbies set…..

Well now, that is very interesting. Madame Manageress, the town architect (to date) Denis Deasey and the efficient Town Clerk, P. Lynch do not live in Cobh and hence only have to deal with consequences of their enlightened decisions on a Monday to Friday, 9-5 (if even that) basis. In what leafey galdes, might we enquire, do these devoted servants of civil society live?

@samuel j wrote:

Did you notice the lovely restored red bricked custom house/old mercantile marine office upriver of the block… its to back of this old building / yard they stuck on the telly tubbies set…..

Yes I did. And, if I am not mistaken the ugly square box even manages to project itself above the roofline of the houses to intrude on the vista of the waterfront houses. Just what kind of eejits operate tha Cobh Urban District Council?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Well now, that is very interesting. Madame Manageress, the town architect (to date) Denis Deasey and the efficient Town Clerk, P. Lynch do not live in Cobh and hence only have to deal with consequences of their enlightened decisions on a Monday to Friday, 9-5 (if even that) basis. In what leafey galdes, might we enquire, do these devoted servants of civil society live?

😮 deja vu…we have the same problem in the city in that the city of culture directors 2005 live in;
Joe Gavin, Dunraven, Blackrock, Cork.
Deirdre Clune, Blackrock Road, Cork.
Joe Kennelly, Bridgestown, Inniscarra, Co.Cork.
Theo Dorgan, Baldoyle, Dublin.
Liz Meaney, Ros Barra, Friars Walk, Cork

None of these geniuses live within a scud missile strike of Victoria Mills.
How has D. Clune the neck to canvass the area? (oh yea, she is part of the brass neck Barry clan):rolleyes:

Kite!

Do you think that it would be a good idea to introduce a law requiring public “servants” such as (over) populate the local government apparatus to live within the jurisdiction of the local authority they “serve”?

If nothing else, it might go some way towards ensuring a more equitable distribution of the kind of intelligence and brain power only seen among the apparicks of the local councils!!

Those photos by Alan are excellent and serve to show just how stunning Cobh can look from the sea. The place has a great architectural heritage what with the Cathedral, the ‘deck of cards’ houses on the hill, and the Crescent (modelled on the famous one in Bath I believe). Alas, we have had some turkeys in more recent times. Whatever about the Garda show boat, at least there was some thought put into it. The same cannot be said for those ‘slum to be’ apartments.
The old US consular building looks well. Does anyone know what is it being used for these days?

us consul building – ground floor cobh town council ex cobh udc and top floor is a ladies gym both only tenants. building was gaelschoil for some years, then derelict until local cornerstone construction bought it, renovated and rented to the above. meanwhile old udc building aka the town clock remains empty….went for auction but failed to make reserve. now idle for over a year while council decide …..

@corcaighboy wrote:

The same cannot be said for those ‘slum to be’ apartments.

yeap……

@Praxiteles wrote:

Kite!

Do you think that it would be a good idea to introduce a law requiring public “servants” such as (over) populate the local government apparatus to live within the jurisdiction of the local authority they “serve”?

If nothing else, it might go some way towards ensuring a more equitable distribution of the kind of intelligence and brain power only seen among the apparicks of the local councils!!

😀 Based on the belief that people are less likely to s**t on their own doorstep, my answer would have to be yes.

@corcaighboy wrote:

Those photos by Alan are excellent and serve to show just how stunning Cobh can look from the sea. The place has a great architectural heritage what with the Cathedral, the ‘deck of cards’ houses on the hill, and the Crescent (modelled on the famous one in Bath I believe). Alas, we have had some turkeys in more recent times. Whatever about the Garda show boat, at least there was some thought put into it. The same cannot be said for those ‘slum to be’ apartments.
The old US consular building looks well. Does anyone know what is it being used for these days?

CB!

Here is a picture, again courtesy of Alan, showing the full sweep of the Crescent in Cobh:

@corcaighboy wrote:

Those photos by Alan are excellent and serve to show just how stunning Cobh can look from the sea. The place has a great architectural heritage what with the Cathedral, the ‘deck of cards’ houses on the hill, and the Crescent (modelled on the famous one in Bath I believe). Alas, we have had some turkeys in more recent times. Whatever about the Garda show boat, at least there was some thought put into it. The same cannot be said for those ‘slum to be’ apartments.
The old US consular building looks well. Does anyone know what is it being used for these days?

Alan’s photographs are excellent, I lived in Bath, Avon for a few years..what a gem of a city. Cobh has the potential to surpass Bath if proper planning is observed.
Imagine some quack suggesting raping the integrity of Bath Abbey??:eek: He would not pass go, he would not collect 200 euro, he would be sent straight to the gallows (after been flogged in the streets) 😀

That bit of Cobh always looks nice. I do think that the Marina plans (if they ever go ahead) will add to it even more.

Yeah those new apartments are a joke. They replaced the old run down cinema that had been closed for 20 years, if I recall correctly.

I would beg them though to stop the atrotious development of estates in the back of Cobh. Rushbrooke has been DESTROYED, and the area around Ticknock is being ruined. Crappy, crappy planning.

And if memory serves me correctly, they’ve got 93 acres rezoned for more houses.

They’re also planning MASSIVE development of new estates around Ballymore in the next few years – hundreds of houses. The entire community was up in arms about it, Cllr John Mulvihill was at the meeting and was a hopeless sack of shit. And rude too. He more or less told people he was washing his hands of the whole affair and that the houses would be built, like it or not.

So, people, if you want to see Cobh, see it now, because its started to go downhill, and it aint gonna stop.

Can recall something fishy too in Cobh about planning for Lidl or Aldi being up in the air due to an objector
close by …… this is where the new supervalu is…… I wonder……

I heard Lidl AND Aldi both put in planning, on two sites just north of Super Valu. One was refused, one outline granted. Not sure which got it, And I’d also heard rumours that Mr Miskella was thinking of selling Supervalu to Tesco, but thats just rumour.

@samuel j wrote:

Can recall something fishy too in Cobh about planning for Lidl or Aldi being up in the air due to an objector
close by …… this is where the new supervalu is…… I wonder……

supervalu..Musgraves…major food giant…:eek: ??

@kite wrote:

😡 It looks almost certain that Lidl are in trouble with their proposal to locate in Churchfield.
Intense lobbying on behalf of a major food giant in Ireland (Cork) has it seems “paid” off in that tonight’s Planning Committee meeting in City Hall saw a majority of Councillors vote against the rezoning needed.
If the vote is put before a full CCC meeting next Monday night ???? :rolleyes:

Amazing what a bit of lobbying can do……..

wonder how cobh will get on down the line…. meanwhile half of cobh heads to Lidl in Midleton to spend their hard earned cash……

@samuel j wrote:

Amazing what a bit of lobbying can do……..

wonder how cobh will get on down the line…. meanwhile half of cobh heads to Lidl in Midleton to spend their hard earned cash……

😀 Cash (money) is king, always has, and always will be.

And a little bit of Carry……..

/

Just in case anyone misses it, some interesting news on St. Colmans Cobh….
Refer to thread : reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches for further updates on this case

“Originally Posted by descamps
Descamps was in Cork to-day and quite unexpectedly ran into a group of clergy from the diocese of Cloyne who were having a liturgy meeting with Fr. Danny Murphy, Fr. Sean Terry, Fr. Denis Reidy and architect Alex White. Bishop Magee was also there and spoke to the group.

He told them that he had been to Rome and had spoken to the Pope. He said that he had shown a new set of plans and photographs for Cobh Cathedral to the Pope. He insinuated that the Pope told him to go ahead with them – though he allowed himself sufficient room to back out of this should awkward questions be asked at a later date (Readers will remember that at the Midleton hearing he was badly caught telling fibbs on a similar heading).

More interestingly, he said that when he had spoken to the Local Planning Authority (Cobh Town Council) and he was given to understand that they would be “cooperative” and try to help in any way possible with whatever he might want to do. They told him to bring back a new set of plans to them, he said.

The driving force in this initiative seems to be Fr. Denny Reidy of Carrigtwohill. Curiously, there was no sign of Tom Cavanagh from Fermoy who was a staunch supporter of the last project.

The bold bishop announced that he was going ahead with another reordering scheme to gut the interior of Cobh Cathedral no matter what the people of Cobh or the diocese of Cloyne think.

Has the FOSCC heard of this?”

We shall all be keeping a very close eye on Cobh Urban District Council from now on!!

@kite wrote:

:confused: With regard to the planning process in Cork, does anyone share (or care about) my concerns that some planning applications that have gone through the process including the appeals board only to come back so many times for changes to the original application (some as many as 20-30 changes per application) that people cannot figure out what is going on?
This undermines genuine planning applications in Cork.

If I can be so bold as to quote Kite as above from another thread.
I have seen this process time and time again in Cobh. Know of one development that had so many amendments it was next to impossible to figure out what was the final version. Know one developer who use dthis tactic and got away with many changes that no poor citzen could have kept up with, unless he/she sat for a day each week in the udc and compared drawing by drawing. Makes it impossible for anyone without professional help to mount any decent objection.
and it still goes on…… a quick browse of current plans and you will developers at it again and again.
I don’t know a solution expect some format of very clear logging in a single sheet viewable in the planning file and/or clear stamping of superceeded drawings as nul and void.

@samuel j wrote:

If I can be so bold as to quote Kite as above from another thread.
I have seen this process time and time again in Cobh. Know of one development that had so many amendments it was next to impossible to figure out what was the final version. Know one developer who use dthis tactic and got away with many changes that no poor citzen could have kept up with, unless he/she sat for a day each week in the udc and compared drawing by drawing. Makes it impossible for anyone without professional help to mount any decent objection.
and it still goes on…… a quick browse of current plans and you will developers at it again and again.
I don’t know a solution expect some format of very clear logging in a single sheet viewable in the planning file and/or clear stamping of superceeded drawings as nul and void.

😉 Would you think that a set charge of say 250,000 – 500,000 euro per change of application for what Planning Departments class as large developments would concentrate the minds of engineers and architects to get it right first time out?

@samuel j wrote:

….logging in a single sheet viewable in the planning file and/or clear stamping of superceeded drawings as nul and void.

My Sam, but you are in an optimistic mood this evening. Do you not know that the purchase of a Null and Void stamp will cause a major crisis in the Cobh Urban District Council…..someone will have to get off his b.o.t. tom and go out and buy it. How could you possibly expect that level of public service from Cobh Urban District Council?

@Praxiteles wrote:

My Sam, but you are in an optimistic mood this evening. Do you not know that the purchase of a Null and Void stamp will cause a major crisis in the Cobh Urban District Council…..someone will have to get off his b.o.t. tom and go out and buy it. How could you possibly expect that level of public service from Cobh Urban District Council?

Must be getting to close to Christmas….

Seriously though, for someone to come off the street to see the plans of some monstrosity being built next is a nightmare. Know 90% wll come out worse than they went in and probably missed the amended drawings that would have shown them it is a missle silo…..

In reality it means that Joe Public has little or no choice but to seek profesional help, which of course advisable but this costs, so many an objector will backdown/drop out.

The developments in cobh with Rushbrooke above the Dockyard and Ballynoe between Ferry and downriver.
As you can see many cleared areas ready for further phases. All photos compliments for Alan taken from Monkstown and Glenbrook

Shameful, utterly shameful. They’ve ruined that side of Cobh completly.

As far as I know, the story with the 3 storey ones is like this –

Apparently, the developer wanted to put more houses on the site by increasing their density. He was refused this, but managed to get the same number of appartments in by adding an extra storey on top of them.

@THE_Chris wrote:

Shameful, utterly shameful. They’ve ruined that side of Cobh completly.

As far as I know, the story with the 3 storey ones is like this –

Apparently, the developer wanted to put more houses on the site by increasing their density. He was refused this, but managed to get the same number of appartments in by adding an extra storey on top of them.

did you notice the big cleared area between ballynoe flemings developments and above the dockyard copperfields again flemings. Think this cleared bit in CCC area as CCC/UDC border somewhere around here.
won’t be long before this gap fills in….
then Behind Copperfields (new large er house above dockyard), planning is in old nuns field for another 60 or so houses….

would not surprise me if we later see more in Ballynoe developments in the remaing field sjust above the ferry pier. you can see them below
aobve old Maritem sheds . By the way there are due to be knock soon and apartments going in…. saw soil test rig in there..

@THE_Chris wrote:

Shameful, utterly shameful. They’ve ruined that side of Cobh completly.

As far as I know, the story with the 3 storey ones is like this –

Apparently, the developer wanted to put more houses on the site by increasing their density. He was refused this, but managed to get the same number of appartments in by adding an extra storey on top of them.

Now now The_Chris, you should know the rules i.e. the thirty year one where we are not allowed to discuss Ansbacher accounts, the bail out of Bewley’s Café, the droping of AIB loans etc. etc. until its too late or until these dudes are too old to receive a fair trail !!
😉 Great news for city and county managers, planners etc??

some close-ups

@THE_Chris wrote:

Shameful, utterly shameful. They’ve ruined that side of Cobh completly.

As far as I know, the story with the 3 storey ones is like this –

Apparently, the developer wanted to put more houses on the site by increasing their density. He was refused this, but managed to get the same number of appartments in by adding an extra storey on top of them.

And probably on a 2nd or 3rd amendment of drawings and serial planning apps, so no one would spot or object as we were discussing earlier on this thread.

I too would like to extend to Mr. Cacciotti the warmest welcome to Cobh and I wish him the very best in his new position. With the splendid Victorian canvas of Cobh now in his portfolio, I sincerely hope he is given the time and resources to give this canvas the attention it so bady deserves. I genuinely look forward to this expertise in this area bringing about a fresh methodology to planning and planning enforecment in Cobh and that we have seen the last of some of the planning travesties we have to live with (see below).

Once again wishest you the best and welcome to the Great Island.

@samuel j wrote:

I too would like to extend to Mr. Cacciotti the warmest welcome to Cobh and I wish him the very best in his new position. With the splendid Victorian canvas of Cobh now in his portfolio, I sincerely hope he is given the time and resources to give this canvas the attention it so bady deserves. I genuinely look forward to this expertise in this area bringing about a fresh methodology to planning and planning enforecment in Cobh and that we have seen the last of some of the planning travesties we have to live with (see below).

Once again wishest you the best and welcome to the Great Island.

😎 Agreed, some Italian flair should shake the cobwebs out of the dinosaurs in the planning section.
I was going to suggest that he would embarrass the dinosaurs but I feel they have embarrassed themselves to the limit with their carry on in Cobh.

This is the plan in for the old maritem sheds just next to the Cross River Ferry slipway on the Cobh side

File Number: 059006
Local Authority: Cork County Council
Date Received: 06/12/2005
Type: PERMISSION
Submissions By: n/a.
Due Date: 05/07/2006
Decision: CONDITIONAL
Decision Date (MO): 05/07/2006
Application Status: APPEALED
Grant Date: n/a
Initial FI Request: 07/02/2006
Initial FI Received: 22/12/2005
Number of Appeals: 1

Applicant Name: Bob O’Leary
Correspondence Address: C/o Richard Rainey Architects
Granary Studios
The Glen
Kinsale, Co. Cork
Development Description: Demolition of 5 no. sheds/warehouses, construction of 2 no. apartment blocks comprising of 72 no. apartments (Block A consisting of 44 no. apartments and Block B consisting of 28 no. apartments), underground car parking and associated site works
Development Address: Ballynoe
Cobh

That one Im in favour of, assuming the appartments look ok. The sheds look terrible as it stands. They should do something cool with the waterfront access of it tho, like have a little marina for the appartments.

@THE_Chris wrote:

That one Im in favour of, assuming the appartments look ok. The sheds look terrible as it stands. They should do something cool with the waterfront access of it tho, like have a little marina for the appartments.

Couldn’t agree with you more. for about 10 years there were rumours of all sorts of plans for there but nothing happened. At last something on the cards as the shed are a real eyesore.

A pontoon upriver/downriver arrangement would enhance it but it is quite close to the actual channel so not sure of anything wider would be allowed. can get lumpy/nasty there in stong northerlies so would have to be a decent weight of pontoon.
But overall hope it goes ahead as derelict sheds just awful

Here is an aerial shot of the area in question….alas, the view is more of the Monkstown side and not the Rushbrooke side. Still, gives an interesting view nonetheless.

corcaighboy]Here is an aerial shot of the area in question….alas, the view is more of the Monkstown side and not the Rushbrooke side. Still, gives an interesting view nonetheless.

Excellent shot, you can see at the bottom the sheds in question which derelict for years and the yards
which in a bit of a mess, so anything has to be better than this as the first thing many a tourist sees if coming on the ferry to Cobh.

What you are not seeing in the little lodge across from the sheds – angle too steep. I wonder if that is where the objection is coming from.
I have to say I am torn on this question. While I would be delighed to see the eyesore eliminated, in my heart I cannot get excited about more apartments.
One has to wonder if that is all we can think about anymore. Surely given the wonderful location we could come up with something a little more interesting and communal than appartments.:confused:

@Gianlorenzo wrote:

What you are not seeing in the little lodge across from the sheds – angle too steep. I wonder if that is where the objection is coming from.
I have to say I am torn on this question. While I would be delighed to see the eyesore eliminated, in my heart I cannot get excited about more apartments.
One has to wonder if that is all we can think about anymore. Surely given the wonderful location we could come up with something a little more interesting and communal than appartments.:confused:

There is indeed a lovely cottage there and you could be right. as to communal use, I think this opportunity is long gone.. I recall years ago that after the Trawler/fishing boat yard closed this land ended up in county council or UCD ownership…… so some public owned it or had the opportunity at soem stage in its history.

Problem is now is that it has been left go to rack and ruin so appartment or not something has to happen, the chance was there for something public
….

If I remember correctly, Maritem closed down before Verolme, sometime around 1985? (last vessel built was the trawler “Fr Oliver”) It is shameful that it was allowed remain derelict for so long.

I remember well the bow/stem of newbuild vessels protruding from the larger hut onto the main road. Their Launching framework still remains on the foreshore, though much of the offices were knocked to make room for the Ferry slipway.

However, they continue to build houses, houses houses all around Great Island with little in the way of other facilities. The one road in and out of the island gets worse daily. Not even a cinema. The “old” town centre still has unoccupied frontage, boarded up awaiting new occupants. The majority of the new residential areas access the main Cork-Cobh road on wat is possibly the worst T Junction in the country, Not far from the Maritem site. Nothing resembling an industrial park of any sort. The Dockyard remains the only major industrial land on the Island, but there have been many efforts in the past to Knock it too and build houses on the site.(Premier Homes are currently located there, which ironically holds its place as an industrial site for now).
The entire Island is becoming one big dormotory, with no community spirit, no industry, even its famous drinking establishments are in decline (the Holy Ground is not what it used to be).
Apartments, in the modern sense also usually restrict parking spaces to the bare minimum, forcing the occupants to use the already at full capacity public transport, to commute to the city, or other “Mainland” locations.

I still can’t understand how they get away with it.

@goldiefish wrote:

If I remember correctly, Maritem closed down before Verolme, sometime around 1985? (last vessel built was the trawler “Fr Oliver”) It is shameful that it was allowed remain derelict for so long.

I remember well the bow/stem of newbuild vessels protruding from the larger hut onto the main road. Their Launching framework still remains on the foreshore, though much of the offices were knocked to make room for the Ferry slipway.

However, they continue to build houses, houses houses all around Great Island with little in the way of other facilities. The one road in and out of the island gets worse daily. Not even a cinema. The “old” town centre still has unoccupied frontage, boarded up awaiting new occupants. The majority of the new residential areas access the main Cork-Cobh road on wat is possibly the worst T Junction in the country, Not far from the Maritem site. Nothing resembling an industrial park of any sort. The Dockyard remains the only major industrial land on the Island, but there have been many efforts in the past to Knock it too and build houses on the site.(Premier Homes are currently located there, which ironically holds its place as an industrial site for now).
The entire Island is becoming one big dormotory, with no community spirit, no industry, even its famous drinking establishments are in decline (the Holy Ground is not what it used to be).
Apartments, in the modern sense also usually restrict parking spaces to the bare minimum, forcing the occupants to use the already at full capacity public transport, to commute to the city, or other “Mainland” locations.

I still can’t understand how they get away with it.

I think that I may know the answer to that!!

@goldiefish wrote:

If I remember correctly, Maritem closed down before Verolme, sometime around 1985? (last vessel built was the trawler “Fr Oliver”) It is shameful that it was allowed remain derelict for so long.

I remember well the bow/stem of newbuild vessels protruding from the larger hut onto the main road. Their Launching framework still remains on the foreshore, though much of the offices were knocked to make room for the Ferry slipway.

However, they continue to build houses, houses houses all around Great Island with little in the way of other facilities. The one road in and out of the island gets worse daily. Not even a cinema. The “old” town centre still has unoccupied frontage, boarded up awaiting new occupants. The majority of the new residential areas access the main Cork-Cobh road on wat is possibly the worst T Junction in the country, Not far from the Maritem site. Nothing resembling an industrial park of any sort. The Dockyard remains the only major industrial land on the Island, but there have been many efforts in the past to Knock it too and build houses on the site.(Premier Homes are currently located there, which ironically holds its place as an industrial site for now).
The entire Island is becoming one big dormotory, with no community spirit, no industry, even its famous drinking establishments are in decline (the Holy Ground is not what it used to be).
Apartments, in the modern sense also usually restrict parking spaces to the bare minimum, forcing the occupants to use the already at full capacity public transport, to commute to the city, or other “Mainland” locations.

I still can’t understand how they get away with it.

Cobh has massive potential and could have eclipse Kinsale which 25 yrs ago was in a poor state apparently.
Cobh has great architecture,fantastic setting at mouth of harbour,facing south and ther should be thriving restaurants,bars,tourist related industries etc.The lack of moorings for yachts does’nt help,neglected and empty shops,too many awful bars,rubbish new housing,the main road is just dangerous and neglected.
A tourism plan must be drawin up and implemented which has to include Cobh,Crosshaven and Roches point a part of the Spike Island shheme if it ever happens.Cobh people need a few more options like cinema,sports,employment facilities,social facilities etc.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Cobh has massive potential and could have eclipse Kinsale which 25 yrs ago was in a poor state apparently.
Cobh has great architecture,fantastic setting at mouth of harbour,facing south and ther should be thriving restaurants,bars,tourist related industries etc.The lack of moorings for yachts does’nt help,neglected and empty shops,too many awful bars,rubbish new housing,the main road is just dangerous and neglected.
A tourism plan must be drawin up and implemented which has to include Cobh,Crosshaven and Roches point a part of the Spike Island shheme if it ever happens.Cobh people need a few more options like cinema,sports,employment facilities,social facilities etc.

I couldn’t agree with you more.
We have at last a decent Pool and Gym akin to one out by CIT in Cork. It took time but there at last. Cinema
kills me to drive off the Island to Mahon, Douglas or Midleton with da kids to see latest kiddies movie.
We had one for years, down by the baths. I and all my pals grew up with one…one we walked to and walked home…not a car in sight…..

I still feel the key is a marina (I am biased I admit as keen yottie/boatie) as based on what I’ve seen in UK
Scotland and other Irish ports, all pubs and restaurants got their act together once the punters started coming by sea and very often families to join up with boat by land. Everyone benefits.

Three years ago I went up Cobh Cathedral on a beautiful day. The pics of the inside of the Cathedral are in the other thread, here are the pics of the views. A lots changed since these were taken but its some nice views of Cobh three years ago 😀

West, towards Convent ->

West, towards Bishops House ->

East – Cathedral Carpark and Mount ->

Slightly North of that ->

East again ->

Plenty more pics to come 🙂

once again brillant stuff, thanks for sharing them…..really great stuff to study..

Social Welfare Office cobh

This is from theOPUS Assessor’s Report 06 6/11/06 10:56 AM Page 2
Bank of Ireland Opus
Architecture and Construction Awards 2006
Assessor’s Report
“Highly-Commended
Project: Cobh Social Welfare Office, Cobh, Co Cork
Architect: Architectural Services, Office of Public Works, Dublin
Contractor: Cummor Construction, Blarney, Co Cork
The old Custom House in Cobh, once boarded up, has been carefully
restored and
extended. Its new life as a social welfare building brings an interplay of
continuity and
evolution between the restored old building and the carefully-inserted
new building.
Significant street level differences are boldly bridged, breathing new life
into an important
town. The quality of restoration, research, design and building are of a
high standard.
OPUS Assessor’s Report 06 6/11/06 10:56 AM Page 10

In case we forget the following shots show the beautiful restored south facing old Custom house
and the 2nd shot is the telly tubbie tv they have ‘carefully-inserted’ on back or north facing towards Harbour row..

What do you think..?

If this is the kind of judgement used by the Bank of Ireland in minding your hard earned shillings for you, I think I would advise you to go before closure tomorrow (Friday) and draw out everything. It might not be there after Christmas after having been carefully inserted into a stupid investment! Do not say that you have not been warned! The Telly-tubby says it all.

Albeit that this thread is called ‘What is going up in Cobh’, of interest lately is what is coming down. There have been two landslides in the town recently.
The first involved the garden of one of the houses in the Crescent landing down in the yard of the hardware store at the bottom of West View. It was miraculous that no one was hurt. A car and a forklift were buried. Apparently there was a second slide near Bellevue School but I do not know the details.
Seemingly the council have been trying to get money from the Government for this problem, but so far nothing.
I suppose someone will have to die – ( one young man had a lucky escape in that he had just vacated the above mentioned forklift when the slide occurred) or they will need an EU directive banning hills.

As far as I am aware the Irish government used to maintain a fund called The Cobh Subsidence Relief Fund. What has happened to it?

And BTW I understand that works are going on at Cathedral terrace to secure the foundations of one of the parochial houses. I wonder has it crossed any one’s mind to to have an engineer check the foundations of the Cathedral platform for subsidence problems?

@samuel j wrote:

In case we forget the following shots show the beautiful restored south facing old Custom house
and the 2nd shot is the telly tubbie tv they have ‘carefully-inserted’ on back or north facing towards Harbour row..

What do you think..?

Whilst I always find it hard to judge buildings based on photos alone, I certainly wouldn’t rush to criticise this building as much as it has been by other users of these forums. It seems to fit comfortably in the site in which it has been located. The restoration of the other building looks good also.

@phil wrote:

Whilst I always find it hard to judge buildings based on photos alone, I certainly wouldn’t rush to criticise this building as much as it has been by other users of these forums. It seems to fit comfortably in the site in which it has been located. The restoration of the other building looks good also.

It is hard to judge form photos alone and you are right the restoration of the Custom House/Mercantile Marine offices is splendi. It was derelict for years as a few different ideas were looked at by the OPW. At one stage there was talk it would become the new garda station.
Anyway I fully agree the restoration fo this building and section is excellent work but (and I know the photos don’t give the full impression) the back building they inserted/linked to the custom house, now opening out to
the junction by Harbour Row, looks terrible when you see the buildings surrounding it.

Strangely enough it breaks many of the points the Town development plan recommends as criteria for in-town developments.

Page 11 of Volume 2
“All developments must be designed to complement the existing
architecture, townscape and character. Where a new building is to
be inserted into a street or an existing building is to be altered, the
character and integrity of the street facade is to be maintained.
Development must respect the proportion and character of the
existing streetscape including architectural features such as
plaster surrounds to windows, quoins, etc. In general large sheets
of plate glass should be avoided.
As a general rule, flat roofed buildings, single storey development
or bland facades, will not be permitted on the street frontages in
this area.”

Would I be right in saying that this development is at the end of a terrace of shops/houses which front straight on to the street at? If this is the caseI think it works well in that it merges the terrace with the rest of the road without taking away from the existing structures. It would seem that they would have had difficulty if they had decided to go more than one storey due to the amount of windows on the gable of the building beside it. As I say, it is hard to judge without seeing it in the flesh, but I think it looks quite positive from the images presented.

@phil wrote:

Would I be right in saying that this development is at the end of a terrace of shops/houses which front straight on to the street at? If this is the caseI think it works well in that it merges the terrace with the rest of the road without taking away from the existing structures. It would seem that they would have had difficulty if they had decided to go more than one storey due to the amount of windows on the gable of the building beside it. As I say, it is hard to judge without seeing it in the flesh, but I think it looks quite positive from the images presented.

Yes and light to windows next door would have stopped 2 storey, however that attached photo might give you idea of whats straight across from it. It would be on the bottom left of this photo.
Will try to get more shots over Xmas

Have a good Xmas

@phil wrote:

Would I be right in saying that this development is at the end of a terrace of shops/houses which front straight on to the street at? If this is the caseI think it works well in that it merges the terrace with the rest of the road without taking away from the existing structures. It would seem that they would have had difficulty if they had decided to go more than one storey due to the amount of windows on the gable of the building beside it. As I say, it is hard to judge without seeing it in the flesh, but I think it looks quite positive from the images presented.

I am afraid that I have to disagree with this view. I can see no inherent aesthetic quality in this development which detracts from the environment into which it has been imposed without any consideration or sympathy for the period buildings on the street. It is basically a bit of crap: one part looks like the back of an old-fashioned outside jacks; another like a discarded television box, and the third element looks like a stupidly placed flower box. It might work were one to demolish the rest of the street – a proposition not entirely beyond the Cobh Urban District Council!

@samuel j wrote:

Yes and light to windows next door would have stopped 2 storey, however that attached photo might give you idea of whats straight across from it. It would be on the bottom left of this photo.
Will try to get more shots over Xmas

Have a good Xmas

Thanks for posting that image Samuel. There is something very subtle about that small building at the centre of the shot. It connects the two streets beautifully. The steps are also a nice feature.

Thanks for Christmas wishes. Have a good one yourself.

Phil

More 2003 pics from up the Cathedral –

Looking north –

West, Bishops house again –

Southeast –

South, Oil Refinery across the harbor –

East, the mount and the road next to it –

Once again The_Chris great photos, rare views to get ..thanks for sharing.

I think I liked that view of the Mount –

East –

Northeast, towards the water towers –

North –

West –

From latest Great Island Newsletter 24/12/06
“NEW TOWN ARCHITECT APPOINTED
Our new Town Architect was officially welcomed to Cobh at the monthly meeting of the Council last week.Mr. PierAngelo Cacciotti from Rome was welcomed by Mayor Noirin Doyle and the members who wished him well in his new position and assured him there would be an abundance of work to be done.
Mr. Cacciotti told the members Cobh was a town with the biggest potential in the Cork area and assured them he intended to work to improve its image.“ The architecture here in Cobh is most interesting to me. I cannot understand why Cobh is not developing as it should”. he added.”

Loosely translated, he wondered what the hell they were doing all along.

Kinsale c1980 was far inferior to Cobh either then or now. I hope that the local interests can drive the town back to its former greatness.

@goldiefish wrote:

Loosely translated, he wondered what the hell they were doing all along.

Perhaps Pierangelo is finally about to bring some italian flare to the drab drab set-set up that is Cobh Urban District Council?

@Praxiteles wrote:

Perhaps Pierangelo is finally about to bring some italian flare to the drab drab set-set up that is Cobh Urban District Council?

A few trips out on the harbour won’t do him any harm, where you can really see the beauty of the town, the potential and alas some of the travesties inflicted upon it by by some others.

More views from up the Cathedral in 2003 –

South, across the harbor –

West, cant remember the name (Belmont place? ). Rushbrooke church too.

A little bit more south than that –

Across to the Steelworks. This has been demolished now, at long last.

South, over the main town. A view into the shops ‘back gardens’ –

@samuel j wrote:

A few trips out on the harbour won’t do him any harm, where you can really see the beauty of the town, the potential and alas some of the travesties inflicted upon it by by some others.

I will be prepared to pay the ticket for Signor Cacciotti’s trip around the harbour – proviced Noreen Doyle is left at home (we would not want her to get wet)!

A Post from America

Source Quinnipiac University http://www.quinnipiac.edu/other/abl/etext/irish/pictures203/p367.html

QUEENSTOWN, FROM THE HARBOR. -The general view of the handsome city of Queenstown presented above, gives a good idea of how it strikes the traveller who first beholds the famous Irish seaport from the waters of its spacious harbor. The noble pile on the right of the picture is the Catholic cathedral which, when entirely finished, will be one of the grandest temples of worship in Christendom. Owing to the high formation of the ground on which Queenstown is built, the houses rise in terraces, with a back ground, at most points, of umbrageous trees and green slopes. It is admitted to be one of the healthiest municipalities in the world, and, notwithstanding the large sea-faring element-usually “wild” after long ocean voyages-one of the best ordered in Great Britain and Ireland. Indeed, one of the practical arguments in favor of Irish autonomy is, that the Irish cities and towns, which possess local government, as they all do, are quite as well governed as English cities and towns, and are, besides, much freer from crime and disorder. In many of the Irish countries and burghs recently, the judges have presented “white gloves” to the grand juries to indicate that there was no criminal business to come before them -something without parallel in England.

Nice one 😀

Cathedral looked better without the spire. Lets return the frontage to the way it was in the 1800s

@goldiefish wrote:

Cathedral looked better without the spire. Lets return the frontage to the way it was in the 1800s

You’re not the Bishop by any chance…are ya…..

Heres a few more –

West, Convent –

South, mouth of the harbour –

South, the main streets of Cobh –

West, Elegant pic of a no parking sign –

North –

Holidays are over, so I wont be around Cobh for a few months. Will still be online tho 😀 So heres the rest of the Cobh pics, or I’ll only forget to post them.

West – Bishops house –

Southeast, town hall –

Zoomed out from that –

South – He doesnt know hes famous 😀

Zoomed out –

West – Wider angle than before –

South –

Again –

East –

Slightly north of that –

Town hall again –

Northeast, towards water towers –

And thats it folks, hope you enjoyed 😀 Interesting to see how things have changed in the three years.

Thanks, The_Chris.
I really enjoyed those photographs.
Have a Happy New Year.

How Haulbowline has changed since those photos were taken.

@goldiefish wrote:

Cathedral looked better without the spire. Lets return the frontage to the way it was in the 1800s

You must be a nut and three quarters!!

I will recommend you for membership of the Cloyne HACK.

Great thread guys.
Some photos from the area of the proposed Marina west towards the town.

Perhaps a side to the original title of the thread to “Whats coming down in Cobh”.
The following photos are of the area below the Crescent, where the recent landslide took place.

Wow.

If you look at the second of those pics you can see a crack in the house. Say hello to land subsidence 🙁

@THE_Chris wrote:

Wow.

If you look at the second of those pics you can see a crack in the house. Say hello to land subsidence 🙁

Rumor has it the lady of the house was evacuated for some time initially as it was felt the house was shortly to follow the cliff.

Great shots Istigh of the whale watching beach…..:(
Following is one of THE_Chris photos that I put on where marina should go… SHOULD…. being the operative word…. we’ll literally miss the boat… Courtmacsherry and Schull both now trying to develop Marinas…they have well understood that a lot of business is passing them by and going on to Co. Kerry where they are well organised..
Also see in shot, the derelict old Cobh TC building or Town Hall….
Anyway know what latest cunnign plan is for it… heard that many clubs/organisations made submissions to UDC to rent but have not heard any outcome. It was decided by the council to sell it but understand reserve price was never reached or even closely touched. Seems a shame it is not put immediately to some club or organisation use.
The old council are great at pointing fingers at derelict retail units etc. along town….. would they not get their
own house in order first…..:mad:

Yes the old town hall is a fine building, its disappointing they never followed through the plans for reclaiming the land and creating a park from the old town hall east along the shore front there.

@Istigh wrote:

Yes the old town hall is a fine building, its disappointing they never followed through the plans for reclaiming the land and creating a park from the old town hall east along the shore front there.

I agree, anyone who trys to do a modicum of change to a building in Cobh gets lumped with a charge
for a parking fund or suchlike. Runs in 4 figure sums very quickly … and for what….. this collection has been going on for years and as you say there was a plan to sheet pile outside of old pier (which no boat can even tie up to for fear of it collapsing) and infill. Would have made a lot of sense but god only knows what bottom drawer that plan ended up in.

Building itself, is quite small inside but would make a fine clubhouse for water based sports…. be it rowing, sailing, whatever…. or some organisation. Won’t be long before lack of maintenance on it will start to show with the good old salt air….

Photo shows condemned section of pier

My understanding is the old town hall has been in use temporarily since the end of the summer last year by the youth services from top of the hill, until there plateau premises is renovated. I could ofcourse be wrong.
I agree entirely that the area has huge potential, we shall await further developments and comment accordingly.

@Istigh wrote:

My understanding is the old town hall has been in use temporarily since the end of the summer last year by the youth services from top of the hill, until there plateau premises is renovated. I could ofcourse be wrong.
I agree entirely that the area has huge potential, we shall await further developments and comment accordingly.

I saw that mentioned in council meet minutes on cobh.ie but have not seen any life there… very quiet youths perhaps. Think I they, cove sailing club and many others made submissions to rent , was some mention that library would go there but in end it went up for auction.
pier next to it in limbo, don’t think it Cobh TC property but port of Cork, however both the wooden piles which are condemned and the fixed wall/pier behind it (under line of green fence) need work. I believe sale is buildling and part of pier to green fence but anyone buying would have to consider some longterm expensive work to stone wall/pier, not too mind the wooden piles.

@samuel j wrote:

I saw that mentioned in council meet minutes on cobh.ie but have not seen any life there… very quiet youths perhaps. Think I they, cove sailing club and many others made submissions to rent , was some mention that library would go there but in end it went up for auction.
pier next to it in limbo, don’t think it Cobh TC property but port of Cork, however both the wooden piles which are condemned and the fixed wall/pier behind it (under line of green fence) need work. I believe sale is buildling and part of pier to green fence but anyone buying would have to consider some longterm expensive work to stone wall/pier, not too mind the wooden piles.

Yeah i had a suspicion the quay is the property of the Harbour, obviously they have no interest in it. It has been deralict aslong as i can remember and The port of cork is afterall a business, the only way to get them to do anything about it or the pier head is for them to some how believe they have something to gain from it, Clearly Cobhites feel there is alot to gain from a shorefront which is not in a shoddy run down condition as it is now in most areas. You would be pushed to find a safe overnight bert to entice tourists.
Perhaps we can suggest a developer revamping the quay and the pier head with pontoons and access and run gondola between both;)

Theyd want to put 200 apartments there though, and in Cobh they’d probobly get permission 🙁

@THE_Chris wrote:

Theyd want to put 200 apartments there though, and in Cobh they’d probobly get permission 🙁

True…. you saw the crap aparts just along the quay`backing onto harbour row….maybe okay inside by terrible from the sea…..in keeping with nothing to be frank.

problem with making the actual pier (condemned wooden section at moment) is that is does not provide any shelter to boat to tie up. Wash alone from traffic makes berthing a fender nightmare and if anything blowing from SE with ebb tide… no thank you unless a breakwater of some sort if fitted and evne the floating type costly. Can see why POC have not done anything with it as needs a lot in invest to make it really usable.

I feel sheet pile/infill to make more parking would be best use, combined with the actual marina proposal which does have an outer heavy pontoon/floating breakwater arrangement.

@samuel j wrote:

The Fishermen came up with plans a few years ago to re-do the pierhead or kennedy pier.making it more a small harbour with access from west side only. remove the middle leg and make an L s such with even more car park space in the Centra/east side. Would have made a safer berth as only getting really nasty with swell when strong SE running with long fetch all the way from Aghada. Think it died a death with Dept. of th Marine but cannot confirm this. It had a few floating pontoons on inside legs for visitors.
At moment 99% of visiting yachts come up for a look at the spendid Cobh, go as far as Whitepoint and bugger off back to Crosser or East Ferry if space but he chocka in summer (has plans to extend but reckon berths so scare it will fill overnight…reckon is too soft..know it will as big waiting list as it is).
An awful pity as know loads of boats/non nationals who would love to call in overnight…and spend money…… go to Cork for a day evne on train…changeover crew via Airport,bus and train…

I remember that plan, i dont think it came from the fishermen, my understanding at the time was that its part of the whole sewage pumping station plan. The L shape you mention i believe was to encompass a larger parking area as you mention at the centra end, and i believe under this parking area is where the pumping station is meant to be positioned for the sewage link up to the treatment plant in Little Island. So i dont think the plan is gone as such, perhaps to be submitted for planning prior to start up of the project.
I seem to remember reading something last year about funding for the passage, monkstown, crosshaven and cobh link to the treatment plant being granted.
Have always liked the idea of the pontoons in the summer as outside the clipper, myself felt infront of the promenade would be good, then come up the steps (if you could slow down the DOD ferrys)

@samuel j wrote:

True…. you saw the crap aparts just along the quay`backing onto harbour row….maybe okay inside by terrible from the sea…..in keeping with nothing to be frank.

problem with making the actual pier (condemned wooden section at moment) is that is does not provide any shelter to boat to tie up. Wash alone from traffic makes berthing a fender nightmare and if anything blowing from SE with ebb tide… no thank you unless a breakwater of some sort if fitted and evne the floating type costly. Can see why POC have not done anything with it as needs a lot in invest to make it really usable.

I feel sheet pile/infill to make more parking would be best use, combined with the actual marina proposal which does have an outer heavy pontoon/floating breakwater arrangement.

There are some quite nice plans for that area, encompassing parking and a park going out as far as you mention to the edge of the quay and then tapering all the way down to the hump back bridge at the entrace to the old baths. Perhaps you should stick your head into yee olde town hall and have a glimpse at them.
No doubt there is many a plan in there gathering dust.

@Istigh wrote:

I remember that plan, i dont think it came from the fishermen, my understanding at the time was that its part of the whole sewage pumping station plan. The L shape you mention i believe was to encompass a larger parking area as you mention at the centra end, and i believe under this parking area is where the pumping station is meant to be positioned for the sewage link up to the treatment plant in Little Island. So i dont think the plan is gone as such, perhaps to be submitted for planning prior to start up of the project.
I seem to remember reading something last year about funding for the passage, monkstown, crosshaven and cobh link to the treatment plant being granted.
Have always liked the idea of the pontoons in the summer as outside the clipper, myself felt infront of the promenade would be good, then come up the steps (if you could slow down the DOD ferrys)

It was indeed all part of the greater sweage plan as did see plan again 4-5 yrs ago making pumping stations etc
undergound in a revised pier/bigger centra cark park. Maybe larger L plan was part of this but can recall fishermen were in favour of it or were part of some consultation on it.
At same time can recall plans for sub treatment plant in old gasworks/congo berth by castleview but this not on as pebble beach apartments/housing in progress there with showhouses opening soon.
so not sure what ultimate plan was/is to get up to the Carrigrennan/little island plant.

Biggest snag for any pontoon and you can see this at much improved and welcome berth by the Quays pub is traffic, commercial and pleasure and the good old weather itself. The commercial we have to accept and this will not change (Ringaskiddy may well be the new port of cork but traffic perhaps even more will still pass Cobh).
But when it comes down to it, its the long distance a sea can building from the East/Aghada etc. right up to Cobh with any winds from East or South East. In the UK many areas with similar fetch for sea building use
floating pontoons, each 14 or 20 tonne each. IN fine weather inside and outside on the fingers can be used with many day visitors on outside but overnighters safety on inside out of boat wash and the local elements

Cobh Marina have got this right with a decent outer breakwater.

Does anyone know what is the final plan (if there is one) on Cobh Sewage treatment. As mentioned by Istigh and myself there were many plans/rumours being put about a few years a go but this was before the carrigrennan/little plant opened. any know if we are somehow going to link up there and if yes when and how… what route…. underwater pipeline say from marino point to carrigrennan ,,?

anyone know anything…

So the urban sprawl is by no means finished…..
From Dept. of Envirn website

“Minister Roche clears way for Cork County Council to invite tenders for sewerage scheme to service new housing in Cobh

Mr Dick Roche, TD, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, announced today (4th December 2006), that he had approved Cork County Council’s Contract Documents for the North Cobh Sewers Scheme. The scheme is being funded under the Serviced Land Initiative measure of his Department’s Water Services Investment Programme 2005-2007. The estimated cost is €4.9 million.

The objective of the Serviced Land Initiative is to provide serviced residential land to improve the local housing supply. “The North Cobh scheme will provide new foul and storm sewerage systems to serve zoned development lands in the Ringmeen, Rushbrook and Ballynoe areas to the north of Cobh,” the Minister said. “This will open up 227 acres for housing development and service almost 2,800 new houses in the long term”. He said that the scheme will make a very significant contribution to the stock of sites available for new residential development in Cobh for many years to come.

“My approval of the Contract Documents allows Cork County Council to invite tenders for the approved works and advance the scheme to construction at the earliest possible date,” the Minister concluded.

ENDS
“

2,800 MORE homes in estates????

Fuck that, Im leaving Cobh.

@THE_Chris wrote:

2,800 MORE homes in estates????

Fuck that, Im leaving Cobh.

can recall seeing in some study (think in relation to Cork-Cobh train) that it was expected Cobh population
would rise by 23% by 2020…..

I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.

@Eirl wrote:

I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.

Eirl!

You are not by any chance a nun? Have you not noticed the level of “acceptable” language on RTE?

The Chris is a valued contributor and entitled to let the hair down now and again.

@Eirl wrote:

I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.

More than acceptable to me as an honest reaction to news that Mr. Roche sees it fit that another 2800 homes
will be built in Cobh.
Many posts in past have highlighted the various sprawls we have on the island so far, some good, some bad
but with them little sight of the associated infrastructure requirements to cope with extra population.
One hopes this will get better but must say I too was shocked to general plans for another 2800 houses…

This should a forum for open and frank, discussion and reaction to whats going on around us and I do hope you might help this discussion with posts of your own on snippets you glean from your daily life.

Reading the prelim 2006 census: http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/2006PreliminaryReport.pdf

It would appear Cobh has in 2006 :
Cobh Urban pop of : 6,517 down 3.7% on the 2002 census
Cobh Rural pop of : 6,370 up 38.10 % on the 2002 census

OVERALL 12,887 up 34.40% on 2002

With another possible 2800 houses to come…. Can recall a railway report by Faber Maunsell from Oct 2004 mentioning Cobhs population would increase by 23% to 2020…..

Time for a re-think ……as i hope the Rail/roads/services will be able to cope…

@Eirl wrote:

I came here to seek information on the statement by Mr. Roche . However I am rather taken aback at the language ,seemingly accepted ,in the forum. Perhaps it is an isolated incident ,will be deleted and the discussion continue in a more adult manner.

Welcome to the Internet 🙂

Readers might recall the cockup on the Marina development whereby it ended up in court when APBs refusal to accept that the objector group had lodged a valid appeal, was challenged in judicial review proceedings by Margaret Murphy, described as a member of the action group.

In his reserved judgment granting Ms Murphy’s challenge, Mr Justice MacMenamin noted a “curious procedure” by Cobh Town Council in using “minuscule font size or typeface” only for the purpose of dating its letters. This unusual date procedure had not been explained, he said.

The dating procedure of the letters from the council to the group was “unwittingly” a “trap to the unwary”, especially in view of the general similarity of the letters in layout and in substance, although there were some distinctions.

The letter of January 11th, 2005, sent by the group to the board was given within time and included the relevant information necessary for the board to proceed

And now from the Cobh Town Council website council meeting minutes
from 19/12/06 from the town manager
“She advised that between the date that the Draft Budget had been forwarded to the members and the date of the meeting, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government had announced the Local government Fund Allocations for 2007. The increase for Cobh Town Council was higher than anticipated at 7.82% which would result in additional income of €47,000. She stated that she was proposing that this extra income be used to pay for the legal costs incurred by the Council in relation to the recent High Court case concerning the Marina.“

What a cockup and waste of money and still no marina…..the boat is sailing by us……

full minutes at : http://www.cobh.ie/preview.php?fileName=minutes&id=48

And council meeting on 11/12/06 first time Mr.Caciotti attended, wonder what he made of all of that….or what has he got himself into – the minutes : http://www.cobh.ie/preview.php?fileName=minutes&id=49

@samuel j wrote:

And now from the Cobh Town Council website council meeting minutes
from 19/12/06 from the town manager
“She advised that between the date that the Draft Budget had been forwarded to the members and the date of the meeting, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government had announced the Local government Fund Allocations for 2007. The increase for Cobh Town Council was higher than anticipated at 7.82% which would result in additional income of &#8364]. She stated that she was proposing that this extra income be used to pay for the legal costs incurred by the Council in relation to the recent High Court case concerning the Marina.“]

Word has it that the Cobh Urban District Council paid out a similar sum for the legal representation at the Midelton Oral Hearing to save their bacon from the cock up they made in relation to the planning application for the “rerdering” of the Cathedral.

And this is why the islands roads are in bits.

@THE_Chris wrote:

And this is why the islands roads are in bits.

Got that one spot on!!

Another little snippet from the CTC minutes
“She advised the members that as a result of the various measures in the Budget she was proposing that the increase in the Rateable Valuation Multiplier would be 4%. She stated that the proposed Rate of 67.11 was substantially lower than the rate of 71.30 adopted by Cork County Council”

And what do businesses get in return.. parking fines… they might as well close down the town to businesses as I cannot for the life of me see any incentive to have one there.. meanwhile the extra 47k they got from local govn goes to pay for legal costs for their cock ups…
We hear again and again the town is dying..with people shopping etc. outside more and more…. so what do they do up the rates and make it even harder for businesses there…..

Have they ever heard of don’t bite off the hand that feeds you…..

But that is exactly the problem: the dog is not feeding Madam Chairman and the over-holidayed time servers in the council administration. They do not have to face re-election to office by the inhabitants of Cobh and so can continue to up the rates as much as they like.

Ridge Developements have just announced details of their Marinegate development at the top of East Hill
Following from their website http://www.ridge.ie

They also mention a forthcoming development of 167 Residential units and creche at Ballyleary,Cobh

Meanwhile details on the Old Gas Works site/Congo berth development to be called pebble beach should be available soon on selling agent site : http://www.cdacork.com/index.cfm?action=pages.listnewdevelopments

@Praxiteles wrote:

But that is exactly the problem: the dog is not feeding Madam Chairman and the over-holidayed time servers in the council administration. They do not have to face re-election to office by the inhabitants of Cobh and so can continue to up the rates as much as they like.

Very true, in fact have heard that two councillors Noirin Doyle and John Mulvihill are very annoyed about the legal fees that swallow up badly needed funding for 2007.
Both openly very dissapointed….so hope they give the admin a good talking to…. and not let the admin get away with penalising the towns people and businesses for the cockup by rate increases and over zealous car parking fine etc.

New for sale sign gone up on Old Town Hall…. so guess it ain’t going to any community group or club…
From Savills/Hok website :
The Old Town Hall, Cobh, Lynch’s Quay, Cobh. This attractive 19th Century single storey building with clock tower has a waterfront location on the eastern side of West Beach in the Town Centre.

NEW YEAR MESSAGE FROM MAYOR NOIRIN DOYLE
It gives me great pleasure to wish all the people of Cobh, at home and abroad, a very peaceful and happy New Year. It is an exciting time to be Mayor of Cobh as there are many positive things happening in the town.
Even though the outlook for 2007 is positive we are facing a number of serious problems including securing an extension to our town boundary and the lack of government funding to enable us to work on our acute landslide problem which is unacceptable and continues to put lives at risk.
The biggest disappointment for me this year is to see the increased allocation of local government funding for 2007 being swallowed up by our legal fees for the challenge to the Marina project.
This money could have made a considerable difference in upgrading our town There is no doubt that the lack of a marina is having a negative impact on our economic welfare but we have to wait, once again, for the result of yet another hearing.I hope that we will see the members of Cobh Town Council, Cobh & Harbour Chamber, the Tidy Towns and other interested bodies all working together in 2007 to make Cobh a better place in which to work and live.
Guim ath bhliain shonasach dibh go leir. Mayor Noirin Doyle
From Great Island Newsletter – 14/01/07

She forgot to mention that something in the region of Eiro 40,000 was also consumed by the Cobh Urban District Council’s solicitors and barristers at the Midleton Oral Hearing into the proposed plans to re-order the interior of St. Colman’s Cathedral. On that occasion, legal representation was needed by Cobh UDC to extricate themselves from their own incompetence and negligence. Is Noreen disappointed about that and the performance of the town manageress at the same Oral Hearing?

I must repember to send in a freedom of information request to ascertain exactly how much Cobh UDC itself squandered on the Cathedral re-ordering debacle – which the good Mayoy was in no great hurry to obviate in August 2005 when representation was made to her by the FOSCC – a matter, I expect, that will be coming up again at the next elections.

An interesting tit bit I came across today. Some of you who live in Cobh may remember some years ago there was a landslide just above Leonards Lodge. Cllr. Stella Meade has a house up there and has been trying for some time to sell at a price c. €200.000. The only access to her house was via 67 steps up from Leonards Lodge. Well lo and behold when the work was undertaken to shore up the land below her house a new private road was build to service 3 or 4 houses and suddenly her house is on the market for €700,000. Not sure if it sold but it is interesting that the tax and rate payers in Cobh should be funding a private road which just happens to benefit one of the councillors to the tune of half a million euros.

Dail debates from 12/12/06 – further to landslide issue being brought up by Deputy Stanton

“Reply from Mr. S. Power.- standing in for Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche. following a fatality caused by a landslide in 1980, the Department has given considerable financial assistance towards remedial works undertaken by Cobh Town Council to strengthen areas
susceptible to landslides. The assistance takes the form of 100% grants subject to prior approval of
the remedial works by the Department. Since 1980, grants of more than 4 million have been
paid to Cobh Town Council. I assure the Deputy that while the Minister shares his concern about the situation in Cobh, he must also be satisfied that works to be undertaken from public funds are cost effective and
properly prioritised. The existing Department of Finance sanction allows the Department of the
Environment, Heritage and Local Government to recoup expenditure to a limit of 4,285,366.
As there has been an ongoing programme of works during almost a quarter of a century, periodic
review is important. It is now desirable to quantify the number of projects left to be completed,
the estimated completion date and the potential final cost. Cork County Council will
take the lead in this review. I understand that a draft brief for the engagement of a specialist
adviser in connection with the review has been endorsed by the Department subject to some
adjustments. Cork County Council has also been advised that if it is of the opinion that immediate
remedial works are essential in the interest of public safety, the Department is prepared to consider
a proposal from it.Cork County Council is free to commit its own resources to meet such works as it considers
necessary. In this regard, the Minister has announced increased local government fund allocations
of almost 948 million in general purpose grants to all local authorities, including Cork County Council and Cobh Town Council. Next year, Cork County Council will receive 54.8 million from the fund, an increase of more than 6%, while Cobh Town Council will receive more than 1.3 million, up almost 8% on its 2006 allocation. The Dail adjourned at 11.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 13 December 2006.

@Gianlorenzo wrote:

An interesting tit bit I came across today. Some of you who live in Cobh may remember some years ago there was a landslide just above Leonards Lodge. Cllr. Stella Meade has a house up there and has been trying for some time to sell at a price c. €200.000. The only access to her house was via 67 steps up from Leonards Lodge. Well lo and behold when the work was undertaken to shore up the land below her house a new private road was build to service 3 or 4 houses and suddenly her house is on the market for €700,000. Not sure if it sold but it is interesting that the tax and rate payers in Cobh should be funding a private road which just happens to benefit one of the councillors to the tune of half a million euros.

I would say that Stella’s star is set to dim quite a bit at the next elections!!!

Reports call for planning body to control urban sprawl
17/01/2007 – 10:02:46

A new body should be created to control planning in the Dublin region after a report highlighted continuing urban sprawl and unstable housing development, it was claimed today.

An independent study revealed housing is not being developed in line with the National Spatial Strategy and Regional Planning guidelines.

I guess areas like Cork, Cork County and god forbid Cobh….don’t matter at all..

I assure the Deputy that while the Minister shares his concern about the situation in Cobh, he must also be satisfied that works to be undertaken from public funds are cost effective and properly prioritised.

Ouch 😀

Quercia Holdings have been given planning permission by Cobh TC to build 62 houses on the Old Nuns Field
in Rushbrooke, near the Convent/School etc. with entrance through the convent just by Norwood Primary school current entrance. There were many objections, including schools parents council etc.
Regardless they have been given permission…

I was in the Links estate the other night and I was struck by the fact that in spite of the what must be close to a thousand houses in the many developments, there is only one road in and out of the estate.
And that exits on to a narrow winding road which in turn exits to a blind junction near the ferry. Great planning there!

Nowhere like Cobh for planning!!

@goldiefish wrote:

I was in the Links estate the other night and I was struck by the fact that in spite of the what must be close to a thousand houses in the many developments, there is only one road in and out of the estate.
And that exits on to a narrow winding road which in turn exits to a blind junction near the ferry. Great planning there!

Oh build away I think is the over-riding plan, if existing infrastructure is already bursting at the seams….nope consideration of that must on some real long term cunning plan…as so far not much evidence of it being given much thought…….

Only time I see them acutally applying rules and regulations is to a single dwelling applicant….. God forbid someone has the audacity to seek planning for the addition of a Velux window….oh no…

Want to build 100 houses with boreens as only access,,,,work away…

Perhaps something to do with fee/levies or suchlike…

Said it before…. a very level playing field indeed….

The roads in Cobh are a shambles – they were barely good enough to cope with the population BEFORE all this new housing mess. Now they’re woefully inadequate.

@THE_Chris wrote:

The roads in Cobh are a shambles – they were barely good enough to cope with the population BEFORE all this new housing mess. Now they’re woefully inadequate.

Road Junctions that were once tolerable (and gave a soul some chanc of crossing) are now bedlam.
The junction by Ballynoe, under the railway bridge and close to the Ferry entrance. At rush hour god help
the residents coming down from the numerous estates off Ballynoe and trying to get on to the main road.

Even Belvelly anyone coming from East side, have to give way to those coming along by the seafont….nice little tail back building there some mornings……

Just some examples but many more…. seems we have an anti traffic light Town Council as anytime lights are brought up at their meetings, the town engineer always says not suitable..or so the meeting minutes state.

And with most of the Island under County Council area, guess no one ends up responsible

Just keep taking the fees and levies from developers…..

It looks as though further congratulations are in order for Cobh’s recently appointed Town Architect, Pierangelo Cacciotti.

It looks as he was successful in his written exams for a certificate to practice as an architect held in Rome on 28 November 2006 – see no. 34 in the first list below; and n. 23 in the second list (scroll down) is called for Oral Examination next week on 12 February 2007 in Rome.

We are glad to hear that Cobh Urban District Council is moving towards having the services of a competent architect at last and we will all have our fingers crossed for Pierangelo and wish him the best of luck!!

http://w3.uniroma1.it/Vallegiulia/Allegati/copia_pubb(1)._sito.xls

@Praxiteles wrote:

It looks as though further congratulations are in order for Cobh’s recently appointed Town Architect, Pierangelo Cacciotti.

It looks as he was successful in his written exams for a certificate to practice as an architect held in Rome on 28 November 2006 – see no. 34 in the first list below]http://w3.uniroma1.it/Vallegiulia/Allegati/copia_pubb(1)._sito.xls[/url]

Hmmmm…….. we and undoubtedly Cobh Town Council will have all parts crossed……

@Praxiteles wrote:

It looks as though further congratulations are in order for Cobh’s recently appointed Town Architect, Pierangelo Cacciotti.

It looks as he was successful in his written exams for a certificate to practice as an architect held in Rome on 28 November 2006 – see no. 34 in the first list below]http://w3.uniroma1.it/Vallegiulia/Allegati/copia_pubb(1)._sito.xls[/url]

:confused: I had to take a second glance at my desk calendar to make sure it was not April fools day when I read your post.
What would happen if the “architect” was called to give expert evidence in a court case next week?, would he be committing perjury if he styled himself as an architect under oath?
I would love to have sight of the CV he submitted at the time of his interview.

@Praxiteles wrote:

perhaps this should have been listed under the thread entitled “The delicate question of the title of architect”?

And I though that we were in for a bright new future…but helas!

Is that information available under the Freedom of Information Act or is it Reichesgeheim ?

So did I but we’re off to an ominous start…… I wish the man no ill-will and genuinely wish and wished him well but it does require some clarification from the Town Council.

The “Town Architect position” is a position of great importance to everyone on the Island, one that has to be above reproach as he/she has the power to make decisions that effect us all, in pocket, in mind and in legacy to the next generation…….

I hope some reader or lurker with any further insight to the situation, could assist as I for one find these revelations very disconcerting.

There was a very interesting meeting of Cobh Town Council last night. Under AOB Cllr. Sean O’Connor (Independent) asked Mare Noirin Doyle (Labour) what her involvement had been in meetings about further proposals for the interior of Cobh Cathedral. These meetings have been taking place with “concerned” locals, amny of them of closely connected with Denis Reidy, parish priest of Carrigtwohill. Mare Doyle replied that she had no comment. When Cllr. O’Connor repeated the question -and asked the town clerk to minute it – he was interrupted by Cllr. Whitty (Fine Gale), and another friend of Denis Reidy who demanded to know if the question had been directed to the Mare in her capacity as Mare or as a private person. Cllr O’Connor replied that he was merely asking a simple question in the hope of receiving a straight answer. At that point, Mare Doyle replied that she refused to answer the question. Cllr. O’Connor then asked the Town Clerk and the Town Manager if they had been involved in any meetings with the Cathedral authorities about changes to the interior. They replied that they had not been involved in any meetings though they had been asked to have have one some nine mionths ago but nothing had happened. Observers believe that Mare Doyle’s involvement with the Cathedral issue will be likely to have political consequences in Cork East for the Labour party and on the possibilities of electing Mr. Mulvihill to Dail Eireann. Obserevers are somewhat surprised that the Labour party has been so keen to espouse such a deeply unpopular local issue as wrecking St. Colman’s Cathedral. The Town architect, Pierangelo Cacciotti, was not available to be asked a question as he had to be in Rome yesterday for his repeat examinations. Just what the devil is going on in Cobh Town Council?

Watch this space.

Excellent report Descamps…. WATCH we cetainly will

And well done Cllr Sean O’Connor…….for asking a simple question in the hope of receiving a straight answer

You and many more are asking “Just what the devil is going on in Cobh Town Council?”

@samuel j wrote:

So did I but we’re off to an ominous start…… I wish the man no ill-will and genuinely wish and wished him well but it does require some clarification from the Town Council.

The “Town Architect position” is a position of great importance to everyone on the Island, one that has to be above reproach as he/she has the power to make decisions that effect us all, in pocket, in mind and in legacy to the next generation…….

I hope some reader or lurker with any further insight to the situation, could assist as I for one find these revelations very disconcerting.

Are you sure there is such a position as “Town Architect” for Cobh. Did we not initially inherit the services of one Denis Deasy of the Architects Department in County Hall as Planning Officer. His function as an architect with Cork Co Co being also provided to Cobh for such projects as the redesign of the Promenade.
Pity what should have been his legacy of a laudable design for the Promenade is lost beneath his other legacy of a litany of atrocious planning decisions. Nevertheless I think we should count ourselves lucky that we have the services of our flegdeling Architect in planning as so many Town Councils have unqualified people filling the pivotal roll

@SirNorman wrote:

Are you sure there is such a position as “Town Architect” for Cobh. Did we not initially inherit the services of one Denis Deasy of the Architects Department in County Hall as Planning Officer. His function as an architect with Cork Co Co being also provided to Cobh for such projects as the redesign of the Promenade.
Pity what should have been his legacy of a laudable design for the Promenade is lost beneath his other legacy of a litany of atrocious planning decisions.

Nevertheless I think we should count ourselves lucky that we have the services of our flegdeling Architect in planning as so many Town Councils have unqualified people filling the pivotal roll

Now that Pierangelo has his exams behind him we hope that he can concentrate on the work to hand and plough a new furrow from that of his predecessor. We eagerly await his approach to the question of Cobh Cathedral – which would not seem to be out of the woods yet with the bold bishop set to make another attempt to wreck the interior and leave the rest of the place fall down from neglect. It has been said that the brave Denis Deasey, although not having any responsibility for Cobh, still wants to keep his “finger” in the Cathedral pie – or at least when he is not on holidays.

The Nuns Field, Norwood, Rushbrooke where 62 have will be built with access through the convent exiting by current Norwood School gate – planning recently given to Quercia developments

Another estate in Cobh. Who’da thunk it 😀

Argus’ eyes are fixed on Cobh Town Council!

@samuel j wrote:

Excellent report Descamps…. WATCH we cetainly will

And well done Cllr Sean O’Connor…….for asking a simple question in the hope of receiving a straight answer

You and many more are asking “Just what the devil is going on in Cobh Town Council?”

Last night’s meeting of the Cobh Town Council saw some fine rearguard action brought up by the Myaor Noreen Doyle when difficulties arose over adopting the minutes of the last meeting. As recorded Noreen was was supposed to have made a statement in response to Concillor Sean O’Connor’s (FF) question if she had been attending any meetings with the cathedral authorities to plan the next stage of the wreckage. It should be recalled that Noreen had no comment when asked the fateful question. But in the minutes she was recorded as having made a statement – possibly the one in the Great Island News. A heated discussion ensued. In the end Councillor Crowley (Labour) suddenly recovered his memory and remembered that Noreen, his fellow Labour councillor, did make a statement. A move obviously to consolidate a Labour’s expected plebisidal-landslide in Cobh and East Cork in the next elections.

But this was merely foreplay on Councillor O’Connor’s part. When Noreen sailed through the “correspondence” item on the agenda with great equinimity, she was asked by Councillor O’Connor if the Town Clerk, P. Lynch, had received and correspondence from An Taisc concerning the lack of maintenance of Cobh Cathedral. Well, a red-faced P. Lynch coyly admitted he had received such correspondence (which he was not going to mention to the Town Council). When asked by Cllr. O’Connor what he intended to do about it, P. Lynch replied he had passed the correspondence to the Town Architect – Pierangelo Cacciotti – who is now preparing a report on the matter. This will be Pierangelo’s first foray into the cathedral affray and it will be interesting how he approaches it. All eyes are now fixed on Pierangelo Cacciotti.

excellent reporting deschamps……… all eyes fixed firmly……

@samuel wrote:

all eyes fixed firmly……

Ah yes, before he sets out with his copybook and pencil, perhaps someone should explain to Mr. Cacciottii the meaning of the Cork custom of whipping the herring.

God they’re a competent bunch arent they 😀

Wonder if Mr. Cacciotti is now realising the mess he’s got himself into 😀

The Old Gasworks down by Casteview, Rushbrooke
Latest development nearing completion…details on :

http://www.jamesgcoughlan.com/res_prop.php?action=view_record&housenumber=581;

@THE_Chris wrote:

God they’re a competent bunch arent they 😀

Wonder if Mr. Cacciotti is now realising the mess he’s got himself into 😀

I’d say he is……..:D 😀

Concerning Mr. Lynch’s memory loss regarding ‘recent correspondances’, one wonders what else has been omitted in this area over the years.
It would appear that Mr. Lynch (Town Clerk) and Ms O’Halloran (Town Manager) decide what the Council should be told; take minutes which reflect what they wish to be recorded; and have total and complete contempt for the democratic process.
No wonder permission was granted for the wrecking of Cobh Cathedral as well as the wholesale destruction of the environment on Great Island.
Do any of you remember the breach of planning law which occurred this time last year during the ABP Oral Hearing, when some of participants took core samples of the mosaic floor in the Sanctuary of the Cathedral and then produced same at the Oral Hearing,without either Planning Permission or a Declaration. The silence regarding this law breaking has been deafening and guess who was involved in ignoring this crime – yes, none other than Mr. Lynch.
Someone should inform the people of Cobh that they need not waste their time voting for anyone on the Town Council as they have no say in anything and even if they had, the Council are sheltered from any inconvenient issues by Mr. Lynch and his side kick Ms O’Halloran

Some welcome visitors to Cobh
The 313m “Navigator of the Seas” berthing at Cobh on 3/6/07.
Combined with the pipe bands concerts going on the same day, the town was thronged with visitors, good to see it and may there be many more days.
A badly needed boost to the local economy

That is just 😎 . Childishness is taking over:)

With the Cathedral dominating the landscape and the numerous Victorian buildings, I know the visitors arriving by sea just love the place…. Tourist related business is about all that Cobh has left and it can do it… a few vessels like this (the biggest they can safely handle) not just draw on local services but also draws many people from shoreside, crowds were all along the quays, 5 foot way, And if they bought just one ice cream..that would do nicely,
Combine this with the possible Marina, ABP due to make a decìsion on this on the 9th of June and Cobh could well drag itself out of the ashes….

That first pic is insane 🙂

I just hope there wasnt a fleet of buses there to whisk people off to Blarney 🙁

@THE_Chris wrote:

That first pic is insane 🙂

I just hope there wasnt a fleet of buses there to whisk people off to Blarney 🙁

there was but with so many people came to see her..the place was buzzing.. on land and sea…

Some more news form Cobh. The Town Council in their wisdom intend selling off the land they have next to the old Town Hall/Lynchs Quay Area.
However this contravenes their own Development Plan 2005 to 2011 (Page 86)
In fact in 1998 the Town Architect prepared a plan and map of the area which they had then earmarked for use as an amenity and car park.
They must not be allowed sell this land off and all steps should be taken to ensure they go ahead with the plan
and give the East end of the town a badly needed lift and more importantly address the car parking issue which they themselves indentified as one of the chief weaknesses to attracting tourists to the town

Photos are of the 1998 plan

Ugh… expect to see a wall of apartments appear.

Short notice I know, but if anyones interested, I have heard that there is a public meeting in the Sheraton Hotel (New one on Fota Island) about a proposed upgrade of the Fota Road.

Its open till 830 tonight, 21st June if anyones going to run down there.

Will hopefully have copies of the documentation in a few days.

Dont quote me on this as it was read out over the phone and could be misinterpreted, but from what I gathered, there are 13 or 14 possible route options and some of them involve dual carriageway between Fota Sheraton and the island. Some involve an entirely new bridge crossing, others involve a smaller bridge to carry traffic onto Cobh with the current bridge used to take traffic off Cobh.

I’ll see if its scanable once I have the documentation in my hands.

Dont get too excited though as in my experience, its usually ~6 years between the first public consultation and the start of construction.

Fota – Would be great if you managed to a scanable post.

Got the paperwork 😀 Will post over the next few days 🙂

Apologies for the delay, but heres a .zip file containing detailled scans of the Fota road brochure.

Route option 5a looks the most likely to me from experience at these things, balancing cost, environmental concerns and sanity.

I dont have webspace and its too big for an attachment so I’ve had to put it up on a free server. Its clean, but there are ads.

Active for seven days from this post. I’ll re-up if necessary 🙂

LEFT CLICK – http://download.yousendit.com/C3F6DE4E7F90D712

Here is an ironic laugh:

The sign reads: “Welcome to Cobh Heritage Town”

Yeah and a few hundred metres to the West of sign is the wonderful sight of the Heritage inspired Garda Station…

just noticed from samuel j’ s pic…..

since when did 3845 m2 change to 3.75 hectares when converted????

is this a new Cork thing….

@henno wrote:

just noticed from samuel j’ s pic…..

since when did 3845 m2 change to 3.75 hectares when converted????

is this a new Cork thing….

Yeah they have it at 0.375 hectares….. not 0.3845 hectares

Guess it a Cobh Town Council thing…. as this was prepared by them back in 1998….:D

Sums were nevere a strong point with Cobh Urban Council!! Remember the 214 objections that the town manageress managed to read in 4 hours?

ABP have made a decision on the Cobh Marina Development, but no details unitl 3rd of Oct.
However rumour on the street is that is has been shot down….

In my opinion a pity as would have been a great opportunity to put Cobh on the tourist map..

The front page of today’s Echo says it was refused.

Yeap it has indeed been refused.
I think Cobh has really lost its final chance and its a shame. Really could
have put Cobh on the map. I know it from Marinas all over that I have visited (was in Southampton last week up the Hamble River… thriving) the associtated industries that follow are a boon to any area….
You name it, pubs, restaurants, chandlers, repair services….
Take Dingle, Fenit and Cahirciveen… all got Marinas and the shore side bonus to all towns can easily be seen.
Was in Scotland this summer and up the Clyde the place is dotted with Marinas, the amount of visiting boats was incredible and sums being spent ashore…….ah well we had our chance

Why the hell was the marina development refused???

I understand that the heights of the apartment blocks were the main reason for refusal, but as others have said it’s a terrible loss. We have such amazing natural areas for watersports, yet so few marina spaces.

One of the greatest natural harbours in the world and Cobh has a prime setting in the centre of it.
Sailed around the harbour yesterday evening and we had to moor at Clippers Bar as there is nowhere to moor a yacht.The run down and negelect visable in Cobh is shocking with boarded up shops etc and massive potential left untapped.

Monkstown has been approved for a new marina.

Cobh takes yet another step backwards.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

One of the greatest natural harbours in the world and Cobh has a prime setting in the centre of it.
Sailed around the harbour yesterday evening and we had to moor at Clippers Bar as there is nowhere to moor a yacht.The run down and negelect visable in Cobh is shocking with boarded up shops etc and massive potential left untapped.

Monkstown has been approved for a new marina.

Cobh takes yet another step backwards.

A Big Step Backwards…… I know Marine orientated service businesses that hoped to expand and even some startup businesses that will now dropped all plans. Some will undoubtedly move/base themselves elsewhere
but yet again another loss of potential jobs to Cobh.

Monkstown, yes they have and I for one wish them every success with it.

Why cant they just apply for a marina without a ton of residential blocks? Thats daft.

Apply for a nice big marina with some reclaimed land with shops and restaurants and be damned to residential areas of it.

Jeez, Cobh is hopeless sometimes.

I take your point THE_Chris but alas for any developer the capital expenditure on a Marina alone makes very little business sense. There was a time when structures could be put in place without too much additional costs, but these days the costs exclusive of the actual pontoons,piles etc. have rocketted… Namely the initial foreshore lease and it annual fees thereafter to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. Rates will apply if the structure is attached to land… which may sound stupid as of course it does..or how due to get on to it… if you have to do any dredging to increase depths for boats.. then god help you… this opens up a veritible pandoras box on costs, licences etc., archeology…..
Now this should end up with the price you charge a guy to leave his boat there or per metre, but without shoreside development in conjunction, the berthing costs will be so high….. no one will use it.
Take the marina developement going ahead in Bray/Greystones http://www.greystonesmarina.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Development again you can see that the shoreside development vital to make the project viable.

The Cobh marina case dates back to 2003 when Cobh Town Council granted planning for a 120berth marina, a 87 bedroom hotel 126 apartments and 12 retail units. However this was overuled by to An Bord Pleanála.

In 2004 Ascon resubmitted a revised application. The hotel was removed from the plan. The plan now incorporated a 200 berth marina ,150 apartments, restaurant and bar a waterside promenade and three retail units. Cobh Town Council gave permission for the plan however another objection to An Bord Pleanála.

This was subject of a high court case due to dates etc. but in end it was sent back to ABP and we now have the outcome of this……..

The ABP reports are now available online :

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/220852.htm

lol what on earth is going on here – one of the grounds for refusal

Applicant is not the owner of the site and does not have the consent of the owner to apply for planning permission.

Hmmm.

Strange one alright. Gather the majority of the site would have been reclaimed land and the remaining beach is up or grabs so to speak. Many galvanised sheeting sheds on top of beach which I gather have been there for years in various states of repair and in their day were ‘just built’. however owners have come forward of these sheds..presumably now with some form of claim of title over each.
Undoubtedly a civil matter as to actual title of these….

I know people both sides on the Cobh marina debate, but would be biased more towards the resident’s view. I’ve been meaning to post for a while on this so excuse the length.

A brief history – residents were in favour – delighted in fact, when it was first announced. The developers slowly but surely turned them against the plan and barely spoke to the residents. Relations got so bad after the first plan that the councilors didn’t even really canvass there during the local elections. The councilors exhibited typical old style Irish gombeen thinking that it’s all about jobs. It’s not – nowadays we have the opportunity to think about quality rather than quantity. Given the general view on this board of the people who run the town, you have to appreciate the local’s lack of trust. Very little has been done with this side of town and what has been done has been done largely by the residents. Look at “the batteries”/bishop Roche park, a great opportunity basically handed over to night time drinkers.

The quality and design of the buildings is lazy, but improved. The original one CUDC granted permission for was awful. Even a cursory examination of the proposal would lead most people to believe that it’s a Trojan horse for apartments, not a marina at heart. You also have to remember the long, and tragic, history of this area and land slides. There is just no way it’s safe to bring serious amount of infill and construction traffic. Given Irelands woeful reputation on enforcement, there was little belief that everything would be brought in by sea once construction started. Can you imagine what the town would be like with all this heavy traffic.

I am very surprised at the reaction of people here who come across as a group very much for improving Cobh and enhancing its heritage. My own personal favorite would be to develop Mitchell/Davis/Meagher (Camden/Carlisle/Northumberland) with a ferry route linking them.

Given the general opinion on this board of Cobh council, people here have let them off lightly. The high court case taken by the residents just to be allowed to appeal to ABP was because the council tried to prevent the locals from appealing. The judge was very, very unimpressed with what the council did. Remember, yet again it was your tax money the council was donating to the legal profession.

It became very clear from early on that the marina was an elitist (no part V tenants for example) development and repeatedly tried to minimize if not eliminate any public access. It was handled badly from the very beginning. If you are asking people to forgoe their fine views of the harbour, extra traffic, serious noise-dust-traffic during construction, remove their parking, etc. you try to get them on board. This was not how it worked. Notice in the ABP report that the public noticed incorrectly stated the height of one building (making it smaller). This kind of stuff really gets people suspicious and after a first failed attempt, surely you try and do things right the second time. Note the last time something was built here, the people on harbour row were told that the houses on the old cinema site would not obscure their views. Just look at the chopped off roofs on those to see how much attention was paid to that promise.

I’m also very unsure as to the location of the marina in relation to the main channel. Who’s to say what the port of Corks view would be once construction began.

I would have loved a continental type marina and so would the residents, but that’s not what was planned.

Cobh…a lost cause I am afraid. What should be one of Ireland’s premier tourist towns is a sulking and increasingly ugly town. Whatever about the merits or otherwise of the planned development, it was at least an attempt at kick starting something. I personally thought it was a project that at least would bring some life back to the foreshore and restore Cobh’s maritime heritage as its primary industry. After this decision, I don’t think we will see too many investors willing to take a punt on any flagship project in the vicinity. As pointed out elsewhere on this thread, a town with such prize architectural assets as the Cathedral and the ‘deck of cards’ seems to have difficulty keeping them in good shape. Meanwhile, ABP have no issues with abominations such as the ‘Mississippi Showboat’ that is the local Garda Station and the ‘TV Box’ that is the local welfare office. I guess if the state were the developer, then there would be no issues!

@THE_Chris wrote:

lol what on earth is going on here – one of the grounds for refusal

Hmmm.

This is one of the planning regulations that cme into force on 31 March 2007. An application made by anyone other than owner must be accompanied by a letter of consent otherwise the application will be ipso facto invalid. If the application were made prior to 31 March 2007, then that rule does not apply.

Aaah ok 😀

P.S. Looking at the inspector’s report, it seems that this was an objection and not a reason for refusal.

did anyone see the photmontages of the proposed scheme in the evening echo?

if anyone did, they would find it difficult to say anything positive about it – it was horrendous. the developer has to be blamed for failing to address the shortcomings on the previous scheme and for proposing such a poor scheme on such an important location – imo the developer has let cobh down in a big way.

arguments about emigration and our changing manufacturing profile and the importance of tourism are important but they should not mean that a town as architecturally and historically important as Cobh has to accept a load of cheap noddy town apartments as a trade off for a marina

“a town as architecturally and historically important as Cobh has to accept a load of cheap noddy town apartments as a trade off for a marina”

Perhaps you are right, Noddy Town (very good..LOL) , well we have alot of them already I’m afraid without any trade off…… will be interesting to see if any other developer will take up the mantle..

Rumour has it Noddy and Big Ears, have boarded up their premises and have left poor Dyna Doll to fend for herself. Noddy is putting all of his money into the Cork Docklands and Big Ears has gone to the US for cosmetic surgery and intends retiring to a Marina complex in the Florida Keys.

Just some shots of Cobh from the River with ‘Jewel of the Seas’ alongside taken last Saturday 6/10/07

@samuel j wrote:

“a town as architecturally and historically important as Cobh has to accept a load of cheap noddy town apartments as a trade off for a marina”

Perhaps you are right, Noddy Town (very good..LOL) , well we have alot of them already I’m afraid without any trade off…… will be interesting to see if any other developer will take up the mantle..

Rumour has it Noddy and Big Ears, have boarded up their premises and have left poor Dyna Doll to fend for herself. Noddy is putting all of his money into the Cork Docklands and Big Ears has gone to the US for cosmetic surgery and intends retiring to a Marina complex in the Florida Keys.

Cobh with all its Architectural,Maritime and historical heritage stop the clock yet again and accepts the decline and decay thats visible all over the town with the greatest potential in Ireland for tourism.

Meanwhile West Cork,Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore and Cork City itself dominate and forge ahead Old Queenstown stands still surrounded by Haulbowline,Spike Island and fading Titanic relics etc.

The town has been in decline since the British Navy pulled out in the 1930’s – I.F.I,Irish Steel and the Verolme Cork Dockyard long since scrapped recycled.

Time for Cobh to glorify the past and embrace the future before it dries up.

@Spinal Tap wrote:

Cobh with all its Architectural,Maritime and historical heritage stop the clock yet again and accepts the decline and decay thats visible all over the town with the greatest potential in Ireland for tourism.

Meanwhile West Cork,Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore and Cork City itself dominate and forge ahead Old Queenstown stands still surrounded by Haulbowline,Spike Island and fading Titanic relics etc.The town has been in decline since the British Navy pulled out in the 1930’s – I.F.I,Irish Steel and the Verolme Cork Dockyard long since scrapped recycled.

Time for Cobh to glorify the past and embrace the future before it dries up.

Good points…. we’ll have a Heritage Town alright of boarded up businsses and derelict buildings… its here already….

If I was a developer/investor the recent events would give me a stong hint to invest elsewhere, like West Cork,Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore.

One could argue forever on the merits of the design etc. of the disallowed Marina but the damage is greater than that. Will be interesting to see where Cobh is in 5 years….. comparative to the likes of Courtmacsherry, Schull, Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore.

@samuel j wrote:

Good points…. we’ll have a Heritage Town alright of boarded up businsses and derelict buildings… its here already….

If I was a developer/investor the recent events would give me a stong hint to invest elsewhere, like West Cork,Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore.

One could argue forever on the merits of the design etc. of the disallowed Marina but the damage is greater than that. Will be interesting to see where Cobh is in 5 years….. comparative to the likes of Courtmacsherry, Schull, Kinsale,Crosshaven,Clonakilty,Baltimore.

Cobh with its setting in the centre of the harbour,facing south,outstanding architecture that only Kinsale and Crosshaven could dream of and deepwater for shipping and nowhere to moor a yacht.

The RCYC was moved to Crosshaven from Cobh which is a shame.
Cruise down the West coast of France and you can moor in similar sized ports easily with the industry and tourism surrounding it is a potential wasted.

Visit La Rochelle sometime and see how the old and the new have been integrated.

Cobh will decay for another 10 years before anything is done.

Remember Kinsale 25 years ago – you could’nt give the place away.

Cobh with its setting in the centre of the harbour,facing south,outstanding architecture that only Kinsale and Crosshaven could dream of and deepwater for shipping and nowhere to moor a yacht.

The Pontoon at the Quays Bar is the only haven for a visting yacht and in high use all summer.
After that well…….I’m afraid I watch foreign boats in the summer day in/day out, come up in fornt of Cobh, do a quick u-turn and away again….. all with Cash in pocket ready to be spent…..

Cruise down the West coast of France and you can moor in similar sized ports easily with the industry and tourism surrounding it is a potential wasted.

Indeed and North Coast of Spain and Scotland as I’ve mentioned before

Visit La Rochelle sometime and see how the old and the new have been integrated.

A Prime example

Cobh will decay for another 10 years before anything is done.

Remember Kinsale 25 years ago – you could’nt give the place away.Remember it well…..

Courtmacsherry and Schull are both getting their acts together on Marinas as they have seen the huge
shoreside benefits…. in fact Kerry at the moment doing very well with their 3 marinas, Cahirciveen, Dingle and Fenit… to County Corks expense…many French and German boats skipping West Cork and vacationing/cruising there directly due to excellent facilities. Know many who even temporarily leave boats there and come back again to continue their holiday or with other family members…. who all use shoreside transport etc…
This could have been Cobh…

Just out of Interest, found these comments with regard to Cobh on : http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?p=1727241

“There is a huge community of people who sail around France/UK/Scotland every year and Cork could attract these by providing marinas and decent facilities like there are in France.
This summer I did a yacht delivery from La Rochelle back to Cork and all the way up the French coast as far as Cameret/Brest there’s no problem getting marina space in any harbour. They all provide showers, shore power and all the other things you need like decent weather reports and engine repairs. You get back to Cork and there’s a waiting list of years for marina space and lots of yachts have “do not tie alongside” signs on them.
As a result the ports we visited in France were jammed with UK, Dutch and French boats. Cork has a fantastic coast line and we’re really shooting ourselves in the foot by preventing these developments going ahead.”

“Massive blow to Cobh the place is getting very run-down.”

“yeah, a mate of mine lives down there and says no-one he knows goes out in the town anymore and few even bother shopping there as it’s gotten so grim”

Interesting to hear what people have to say about us…. Think the comment
“there didn’t seem a lot else to do in the town except play hopscotch between the vomit on the street.” – Says it all….:o

I agree with your assements – Cobh has more potential than Kinsale, it is in a pathetic delapidated state, etc. But i also said a marina was very popular. But this was about apartments, not a marina. If it were a marina, or even a marina with a smaller set of apartments (ideally nicer looking too) it would have been built by now. There is a lack of vision in the council in Cobh such that they will accept anything good or bad (depending on your viewpoint) and this applies to loads of developments in the town. Why couldn’t they just have said up front – it needs to be smaller and neater and you need to take the locals view on board. If you wanted to build this volume of apartments then Verolme would be technically easier and more popular.

“There is a lack of vision in the council in Cobh such that they will accept anything good or bad (depending on your viewpoint) and this applies to loads of developments in the town”

True words indeed… and not a level playing field… Amazing at times what they allow and then often turn down very tasteful smaller or owner/occupier amendents or additions. And not myself in case you think I a grudge holder but just know of many cases that got knocked on head or so unfeasible or costly..that people left with bad taste. However come along with something new 4 house plus and most like utter crap and away you go….

Complicance…well we touched on that…. a myth when it comes to Cobh….

@samuel j wrote:

Cobh with its setting in the centre of the harbour,facing south,outstanding architecture that only Kinsale and Crosshaven could dream of and deepwater for shipping and nowhere to moor a yacht.

The Pontoon at the Quays Bar is the only haven for a visting yacht and in high use all summer.
After that well…….I’m afraid I watch foreign boats in the summer day in/day out, come up in fornt of Cobh, do a quick u-turn and away again….. all with Cash in pocket ready to be spent…..

Cruise down the West coast of France and you can moor in similar sized ports easily with the industry and tourism surrounding it is a potential wasted.

Indeed and North Coast of Spain and Scotland as I’ve mentioned before

Visit La Rochelle sometime and see how the old and the new have been integrated.

A Prime example

Cobh will decay for another 10 years before anything is done.

Remember Kinsale 25 years ago – you could’nt give the place away.Remember it well…..

Courtmacsherry and Schull are both getting their acts together on Marinas as they have seen the huge
shoreside benefits…. in fact Kerry at the moment doing very well with their 3 marinas, Cahirciveen, Dingle and Fenit… to County Corks expense…many French and German boats skipping West Cork and vacationing/cruising there directly due to excellent facilities. Know many who even temporarily leave boats there and come back again to continue their holiday or with other family members…. who all use shoreside transport etc…
This could have been Cobh…

Recently met 3 American families in Kinsale who had planned on staying in Cobh but due to the lack of facilities decided to spend their 2 weeks based in Kinsale and headed to west Cork.
they eventually got the train to Cobh and spent an afternoon doing the Titanic trail.

Developers willl be wary of Cobh and with Cork Docklands developments it will be bypassed even more.

If Cobh is’nt keeping up with the competition whats the point.

“Developers will be wary of Cobh”

Master of understatement there SpinalTap….::p

Run a mile…. when you have so many other locations with welcome arms for Marine infrastructure.:o

Any reports from the public meeting and council meeting on the topic?

So what are the rumours I’ve been hearing about parking charges in Cobh being removed for three months (quietly) and then to be reinstated again?

And how comes this coincides with sightings of two parking attendants?

@Istigh wrote:

Any reports from the public meeting and council meeting on the topic?

Don’t have full details but gist was council and chamber will ask Ascon (who were not represented at the meeting) to stick at it and not pull out now….or perhaps try again…

Hummmmm…….:confused:

I’d be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks – the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can’t really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as “A marina” and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note – Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it’s not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don’t know the name but I’m sure everybody knows which ones I’m referring to).

@marshalireland1 wrote:

I’d be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks – the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can’t really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as “A marina” and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note – Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it’s not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don’t know the name but I’m sure everybody knows which ones I’m referring to).

Ardbrack ?

@marshalireland1 wrote:

I’d be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks – the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can’t really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as “A marina” and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note – Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it’s not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don’t know the name but I’m sure everybody knows which ones I’m referring to).

There were about 250 at the meeting. The majority of people expressed concern about the density of the housing but were fully behind the marina itself. They also respected the rights of the objectors
The town council suggested that a new plan be resubmitted.
People couldn’t understand why the hotel was taken out of the original plan as this would mean that the proposal would have a large tourist impact and planning might have been obtained easier.
Though not present it is believed that the existing developers expressed a feeling that they would not submit any new plans.

It was suggested from the floor that another developer could be approached seeing that Ascon do not own any of the foreshore huts or a foreshore license.

I mentioned in previous comments the exhoribant annual fees the Dept of the Marine(or the now Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources) are trying to extract from developers for the actual Foreshore lease….. it is about euro 1000 per berth per year.
So excluding any shore side building etc…. this extortion is before you put anything actually in place on the water… You might wonder where the Marina charges go that a punter pays to let his boat at marina…
Take rates for example where say a 30foot boat at the moment pays somewhere about Euro 1500 to 1800 per year. Roughly a grand of that is going to the Dept., if the Marina is connected to the shore (like Kinsale) public land then rates also apply….. all this before you even put a pontoon in the water….. or the developer trys to pay for its upkeep/maintenance/staffin/insurance….the list goes on…

We hear from marine industry sources, Bord failte, steering committees here and there….studies on tourism ..you name it that we need marinas…. and we seem to be under the illusions that it just a case of away and build them and we expect developers to come along and build them….. sure its only a few old wooden pontoons….

No I’m afraid our own govn departments, county councils… have made it so expensive that no
one in their right mind will build just a marina…. in the current climate/regime it makes no business sense at all and as an investment just lunacy. So you can see why in many cases/applications the developer has to have shoreside development for it to have any chance of viability. Now there are cases where this did not happen
Kilrush, Dingle, Fenit and Cahirciveen but as far as I’m aware they were all built or heavily assisted with Govn grants…… and Kerry politicians to be fair that ensured they got the funding….. while there was funding to be given…. it too long gone as a source fo funding.

And If you have to dredge an area to get depth for boats, then you are into another minefield of costs….
3000 a day for Archelogical divers/expert advice while dredging…. and god forbid they find something of interest in the mud ….bang goes much of your marina….. then we have dumping licences if you can even get one…

Its endless and by end you’ll end up a very frustrated and poor man…..

Just some thoguths but I think we will be waiting a long long time for any stand alone marina, if I can call it that to be built on or near the town of Cobh.

I’ve no doubt we will see more applications within the Harbour but they will be either very small private developments and not for visitors/tourism usage or large scale ones with all the trimmings and tourism boost potential but they will have some serious Shoreside developements…

@marshalireland1 wrote:

I’d be curious to hear what was said at the meeting. An interesting point on how Cobh council thinks – the meeting was for those in favour of the proposed marina. Surely they should be meeting with the people who are against it? After all those in favour can’t really change anything. I presume some PR compnay told them to refer to it as “A marina” and avoid at all costs stating apartments? On a separate note – Re the Cobh Kinsale comparison, and we should get stuff built now even if it’s not the best. I imagine that is what was said about those apartments in Kinsale (don’t know the name but I’m sure everybody knows which ones I’m referring to).

Link here to a Report on the meeting from Great Island Newsletter

http://homepage.eircom.net/~greatisle/local.htm

Commuter ferry service to set sail E-mail
Written by David Forsythe
Thursday, 18 October 2007
Details of a state-of-the-art catamaran ferry service that will link Cobh to the city centre in just half an hour will be announced shortly according to Cork City councillor Terry Shannon.

The Cork Harbour Cats service will operate three 250-seater catamarans that will whisk commuters from around Cork Harbour into the city centre, avoiding the traffic gridlock experienced daily during rush hour in the south east of the city.

According to Cllr Shannon the service will operate three brand-new catamarans costing €3 million each which will be able to operate in all weather conditions. On-board seating will be similar to that seen on airliners and the boats will include on-board coffee bars.

Daily services will be operated from Cobh, Aghada, Carrigaloe, Monkstown, Passage and Blackrock to the city centre and the company also plan to operate tourist services around Cork Harbour. The service, operated by a Cork-based consortium is expected to begin in 2010 and will create 45 jobs.

Cllr Shannon said, “The Council has already completed the feasibility study and talks involving the operator, City Council, County Council and Port of Cork are at an advanced stage. There are a few issues still to be ironed out but we hope to be able to make a detailed announcement in January”.

Cllr Shannon also confirmed that designs for the three proposed new bridges as part of the Docklands development will allow the catamarans to operate into the city centre without any problems.

If they do it, fantastic stuff.

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/commuter-ferry-service-to-set-sail/

Interesting thoughts from people who’d like to see a marina (although by the sounds of things not necessarily this marina). A few people who looked at at more thoroughly did appreciate that it wasn’t simple NIMBYism but a valid concern for their own homes. There was also a certain train of thought similar to my own that maybe this isn’t the right location. I thought the councellors statements were very poor. Especially the defence of their actions. The council could have been much more productive by doing a proper development plan (the developers would be happier) and better yet if they were that concerned about a marina for Cobh get a truly independant survey to determine the best location (the objectors would be happier). Surely the lawyers fees would have easily paid for such a study. A really brave move would been to build one across the front of the town from the old yacht club to lynch’s quay. Any other thoughts on a good location? The defence of their own commitment seemed to me to be an admission – we wasted thousands of taxpayers money by giving it to lawyers in an attempt to thwart people’s democratic rights. Or did I misread that part? That commitment would be much more believable if they fronted up the money themselves.

“The defence of their own commitment seemed to me to be an admission – we wasted thousands of taxpayers money by giving it to lawyers in an attempt to thwart people’s democratic rights”

You’re right there…. what a waste…..only ones who gained where the legal eagles… don’t mind them earning their crust but this case was just a joke….. which you/I paid for. All because of Cobh TC cockups…..
I have heard people ask why not a municipal marina… would love it… but lets not forger Kilrush is one as such…but they got massive Govn fundings for this years ago when the then Min. for the Marine Brenan Daly was in charge… a local Kilrush man I think….. but gather no funding has or will be on cards for along time into the future. Think they were even mini tribunals on how those that were funded ….. but all policitians seem to have come out clean….LOL…. Cahirciveen got one too… wasn’t there a Minister O’Donoghue from that part or world…Kenmare….ish. Hummmmm

Location… up river locations like you mention would be very nice, be it West of deep water quay to whitepoint… but as you go mroe West you open up more to the dreaded East and South Easterlies so a full breakwater would have to be put in. Not impossible but vert costly. With this don’t think one would survive a winter not too mind boats on it. A big enough sea can build from there to Whitepoint after a few days of stong easterlies… long fetch up harbour right from Aghada for it to build.
A permanent breakwater would do no problem but wonder who would be willing to fund that….

Second public consultation for the R624 (Fota road) upgrade to Cobh took place today in the Sheraton, Fota Island.

Yours truly drove a long way to get there and has the documents which he will scan tomorrow, as well as some more information about the scheme.

Sorry for the delay (busy!) but heres the R624 Fota road documentation. I took photos of it and popped it into a zip file.

Its too big for upload to Archiseek, so I’ve had to put it on Sendspace.

Leftclick on this, then leftclick on the link at the bottom. The site is clean, I use it often.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/muwjss

If it grumbles, try again later.

If the link expires, post here and I’ll reupload.

Comments on the alignment and issues related to it??

in the old train station by the deep water quay. Of the 6 million Irish emigrants fleeing thee famine and poverty in Ireland from around 1850, 2.5 million left from Cobh including Annie Moore and her brothers (see picture), the then President of Ireland, Mary Robinson, unveiled a bronze statue featuring Annie, Phillip and Anthony at the Deepwater Quay, Cobh, on February 8, 1993. Natives of Cork city, they left Cobh from the Deepwater Quay on December 20, 1891. They arrived at Ellis Island on New Year’s Day 1892, it was her 15th birthday! They were the first to be processed by Ellis Island which was newly opened.i They then joined their parents and older brother in Brooklyn, New York, who had emigrated two years previously.
The great ocean liners including those which came to a tragic end, e.g. the Titanic and the Lusitania, are also an integral part of the history of Cobh and are featured in the museums.
Cobh Museum in the old Scots Church on the High Road in Cobh. A collection of marine paintings, models and photographs and a museum of the business and social life of Cobh as a naval town.
Irish Museums & Heritage Centres on Cobh
Megalithomania.com Cork has no entry for sites on the Great Island I think? Off the top of my head …

Belvelly castle (a square – keep? tower) near bridge between Fota and the Great Island.
Martello towers – near train line, by the ara, past old NET/IFI factory.
Belvelly martello tower
Martello tower at back of island, by the sea again, probably with view of Belvelly.
Signal tower on top of hill in woods over towards East ferry.
Lime kiln beside road on back of island – Ashgrove townland?
Ring fort nearish Walterstown. Fields off road.
Old well with steps down, close by old cottage. Ashgrove, field side of ditch beside Noel’s bohereen.