well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?
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‘Visionary’ proposal to develop city centre Limerick Leader
By PETULA MARTYN
A DRAFT report on the future development of Limerick City has been described as “visionary” by the City Manager and Councillors who welcomed its unveiling at last night’s council meeting.
The most striking proposal in the document is the significant redevelopment of Arthurs Quay which has “the potential to reshape the city centre”, according to Mayor Ger Fahy.The Council plans to capitalise on the success of the pedestrianisation of Thomas Street and Bedford Row and the proposed pedestrianisation of O’Connell Street by re-examining the role of the Arthur’s Quay area.
A “comprehensive submission” was received from developer Michael Tiernan who owns land adjoining Arthur’s Quay Park.
It identified a potential development area incorporating the existing shopping centre, the park, the Debenhams block at Sarsfield Bridge and Sarsfield House.
According to the draft report, the developer proposes demolishing these buildings and replacing them with a “robust framework of multi-purpose blocks arranged around a number of axis lines, visually linking the new development to King’s Island and to the River Shannon.”
A new public square close to the junction of Patrick Street and Sarsfield Street forms the major focus to the development. Two tall signature buildings are also positioned at each end of the development.
City Manager, Tom Mackey, said: “The draft City Centre Strategy is insightful and shows tremendous vision.”
The support for the draft document was so well received by all councillors at last night’s meeting that Cllr Kevin Kiely suggested that all members should support granting permission to officials to further their talks with developers to include the development of Arthurs Quay in order to fast-track proposals within the document.
Mayor Fahy appealed to the public to make their views known on the draft strategy in the coming weeks. The document is available on the Council’s website: http://www.limerickcity.ie.
23 October 2007
The draft City Centre Strategy is not yet available on http://www.limerickcity.ie 🙁
@CologneMike wrote:
The draft City Centre Strategy is not yet available on http://www.limerickcity.ie 🙁
Typical!
Limerick City Councils proposals for the Arthurs Quay area looks like a developer
led scheme to take over the Park as a potential development site!Ah, I could live with the loss of Aurthurs Quay park to be honest! It was a great idea at the time but sadly its never lived up to its potential, unfortunately it never really gained the peoples trust, primarily due to those ridiculous railings that shut it off from the city centre! Amazingly after almost 20 years of lobbying the railings have still yet to be removed, the City Council did announce a few weeks back that a buyer had been found for them and that their removal would start “shortly”:rolleyes:
I think the fact that the plan has been designed with creating quality public spaces in mind, more than makes up for the loss of the park. The proposal is definitely worth considering, but of course its hard to make a proper judgement on it as we havent seen the plans in detail yet!. Annoyingly the plans still havent been uploaded to the City council website!:o
@vkid wrote:
i dont know. With the exception of maybe the TSB there is nothing worth saving in any of those buildings. But as I said it depends on what they replace it with..
In a sense there potentially isnt much to get in the way of such a proposal, there are no protected structures in the subject area although there are a few listed on the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (NIAH) This listing would not stop the demolition of a building although it could force the Planning authority to re-evaluate its significance.
NIAH Listings
Irwin Bros., 22 Patrick Street, Limerick
Terraced three-bay four-storey brown brick Georgian building, built c. 1780. Roof hidden behind parapet wall, with coping and cast-iron rainwater goods. Brown brick walls laid in Flemish bond, with limestone coping to parapet wall]Appraisal[/B]
A fine regular brick-faced Georgian townhouse, adapted as the centuries progressed to accommodate a shopfront at ground floor level. This house forms one of the few remaining houses of the Arthur’s Quay triangle of terraced Georgian houses which was almost entirely demolished during the late 1980s to make way for the existing shopping centre/car park. This house and terrace was constructed by the Arthur family, an old Catholic Limerick family, after they had constructed Arthur’s Quay itself, as one of the few large-scale developments of Georgian houses. The name of the street, Patrick Street, was after Patrick Arthur.Roches Stores, O’Connell Street, Sarsfield Street, Limerick
Corner sited attached multiple-bay four-storey Art Deco style commercial buildings, built c. 1940, with an angled corner entrance bay of tripartite windows to second and third floor level over a double-height polished limestone entrance, further emphasised by flanking bipartite window bays. A five-bay elevation faces O’Connell Street, and a twelve-bay elevation faces Sarsfield Street. Structure prolonged by large red brick extension, c. 1980, with a frontage on Sarsfield Street and Arthur’s Quay. Roof concealed behind parapet entablature, with stepped acroteria to end bays, and blocking course stepping upwards over corner entrance bay. Elevations arranged with channel rusticated walls framing recessed smooth window bays articulated by stepped stylised Doric piers with fluted capitals, rising from first to third floor level. Modern glazed shopfront at ground floor level. Window bays further articulated by wrought-metal balconettes.
Appraisal
This is a fine Art Deco style department store, which is virtually intact externally. It is situated at an important corner site and though its origins are relatively modern, it is the only corner building at this junction with architectural and historical significance, the remaining three sides having been rebuilt in more recent decades.Permanent TSB, 24 Sarsfield Street, Limerick
Terraced single-bay three-storey former bakery, built c. 1890, with limestone shopfront and three-sided canted-bay oriel window at first floor level. Possibly originally one larger structure. Roof concealed behind parapet wall. One rendered chimneystack to party wall. Façade walls faced with red brick laid in English garden wall bond, with rusticated red brick quoins to side rising to parapet level.
Appraisal
This interesting single-bay bank building employs a vernacular monumentality in the façade composition, enlivened by the bay window and limestone shopfront. While the façade appears to date to the early twentieth century, the rubble limestone rear elevation suggests an earlier period of construction.P.A. Martin, 23 Sarsfield Street, Liddy Street, Limerick
Corner-sited end-of-terrace three-bay three-storey over concealed basement public house, built c. 1830. Possibly originally one larger structure. Rendered shopfront to façade, rendered crow step gabled side elevation, and prolonged to rear with an accretion, built c. 1980. Pitched artificial slate roof with stone coping to parapet wall. Replaced red brick chimneystack flush with gable with plain clay pots. Red brick walls laid in Flemish bond with cement re-pointing. Limestone coping to parapet wall.
Appraisal
A modest late Georgian house, converted to public house use at some point during the nineteenth century and given additional interest with the introduction of a rendered shopfront, a signature addition of the late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century. In the 1872 edition of the Limerick City Ordnance Survey, Liddy Street did not exist. Sarsfield Street (then known as Brunswick Street) continued, in one terrace of buildings, to Sarsfield Bridge (then known as Wellesley Bridge). The site of this house appears to have incorporated part of its neighbouring building to the east.Attached:
1. Irwins, Patrick Street.
2. Former Roches Stores
3. Permanent TSB, Sarsfield Street.
4. Permanent TSB, Sarsfield Street.
5. P. Martin, Sarsfield Street.The Draft city development plan is now available on the limerick city council website. You’ll find the link to it below, it’s a 60 page document, so enjoy the read.
Looks like they are planning on starting talks about the development of Arthurs Quay area, in March 2008, and they say the talks will take 6 months (pg 32), There are some interesting images of what they are planning.
Here is the pic of the arthurs Quay development from the City Development plan. Remember that it is extremely early in the planning of this project so this is not set in stone, but at least it gives us a an idea what the planners have in mind.
Is that a retained or rebuilt Sarsfield House I wonder?
@Goofy wrote:
Here is the pic of the arthurs Quay development from the City Development plan. Remember that it is extremely early in the planning of this project so this is not set in stone, but at least it gives us a an idea what the planners have in mind.
I really think that could be dramatic improvement on what is there. That looks like a replacement for Sarsfield House. Its further back from the riverside.
The document ends rather suddenly I wonder has it been croppped?
A new Limerick will require the vision of a great many..Are we up to the task?
Architect Hugh Elliott says that Limerick is on the brink of an extraordinary renaissance which nobody could have predicted – but now our children’s futures depend on how we rise to the challenges today.
Limerick City stands at the cusp of a physical and social renaissance unimaginable to its citizens as recently as six months ago. How did this happen and why do so many know so little about the imminence of so profound a change about to affect us all?We have all been diverted by the fiasco enacted before us on the Shannon/Heathrow slots and who knew what and when did they know it. However, one thing is sure, in January 2008, this service to Heathrow will operate from Belfast.
This is the short-term approach, crisis management.How do we get out of this unforgiving cycle of negativity? Does Limerick have a future? Its population is in decline and seemingly without a VISION of the city of the future. We are at the crossroads: have we a signpost to lead us out of all this negativity, or are we going to take the road to nowhere?
Limerick will, over the next 10 years, be the focus for the greatest investment in the urban and social fabric of a city of this scale ever experienced in this country. How we invest these vast amounts of European, national and private funds will form the city that our children and grandchildren will either enjoy or abandon in the future.
We have many templates to follow in developing our vision for the Limerick of 2020 but, it must be said, we are fortunate that the infrastructural elements have largely been put in place with the glaring exceptions of public transport. For this, the City Council and indeed central government are to be congratulated. Where we go from here is the test.
This fortunate convergence of investment has been caused mainly by the failure of vision that occurred in the development of the city in the late 20th century. The social and commercial scars now have to be addressed in a positive way and within a sustainable framework for the Limerick of the future.
The catalysts are:
- The Fitzgerald Report and the regeneration of Moyross and Southill.
- Limerick City Council’s “City Centre Strategy Plan”
- The Gateway Innovation Fund
- The City Council’s master plan for St. Mary’s Park
- The Docklands master plan.
These are all hugely important development opportunities for the city as individual initiatives but, taken as a whole and integrated within a vision for the city of the future, they are unprecedented in the effect they will have on the city in such a short term.
This is why the debate on the type of city we want to live in, work and play in and enjoy, is so urgent. The vision of Limerick in 2020 is one that must be forged by all our citizens, actively and without fear. We are building for our heritage.
How do you build a vision? The tools are being put in front of us in the catalysts mentioned above. The City Council’s City Centre Strategy is a fine, well researched document, which gives the framework and philosophy within which the Council see the city developing. It is a fine, clear, accessible document, with timescales and budgets allocated to areas within the City Council’s control.
Great cities, worldwide, are the result of enlightened individuals coming together and developing a vision for the city of the future, and understanding what services have to be put in place to enable the great goal to be achieved.
Multiplying your population by a factor of 10 or more won’t happen unless the transport system, the water supply system and the drainage system has already been put in place to cater for the increased demand. Ask the people of Galway if they have been well served by the infrastructure they had in place, which was overwhelmed by the unsustainable development of the city, particularly in terms of water supply and transport.
The great cities of the USA and Europe did this and achieved their vision in as orderly a way as it was possible at the time. Having achieved this, they had to tackle the motor car and adapt their creations, as best they could, to cater for the new invention.
They largely failed in this, leading to the world wide retreat from the cities to the suburbs.
We at eml architects, as part of this, were driven to develop our vision of Limerick 2020 by the sudden realisation, brought on by the results of census 2006, that we worked and lived in a city in decline.Our concern prompted us to ask questions of ourselves, what part were we playing in this, were we powerless? This, in turn, led us to action and the launching of our Vision for Limerick 2020. We were not commissioned to take action, no one paid us to do the study, but you can’t just sit there and reflect all the time. We all have to take responsibility for our future, that is the challenge that confronts the citizens of Limerick now. Are we up to it?
The lifestyle humanity craves is one of ease with our neighbours and surroundings, a safe place to rear and educate our children, a place of communal harmony where one can stroll the streets in safety at all times, where the person is supreme and the machine an adjunct to be used or ignored as the spirit moves us. This idyllic state of living is best fostered in the city as propounded by the Greeks and is still the valid model for a community seeking to be at ease with itself.
The Fitzgerald Report is a detailed and sober analysis of the present situation that exists in Moyross and Southill, with broad brush proposals to remedy the problems. This report has been approved by the Government and the groundwork for the implementation of the report is being carried out at present by Brendan Kenny and his team. Their brief is to act quickly and the funding has been committed to enable them to achieve their goals.
These developments will have a profound effect on the economy of the city in both the short and longer terms. The vision for the city must include the integration and assimilation of these areas into the main fabric of city life. A key factor in this will be transport and the weakest link in the infrastructure of the city is its poor quality of public transport and the uncontrolled private transport routes in the city core.
Transport, public or private, is an area in which my only expertise, like most of us, is in the use of it or non use of it, as the case may be. I do know enough however to be able to state that the public transport infrastructure in Limerick is a shambles and a disgrace. A visitor to Limerick by train is greeted by a miserable car park, with no idea where the buses leave from or indeed where they are, or, perish the thought, where they might be going.
Contrast this with the stories coming back from the thousands who attended the recent Rugby World Cup in France. Tales of the wonderful public transport system, the fine train and bus stations, the grand concourses and public spaces that welcome visitors to each of the cities. Arriving in Limerick by public transport tells our visitors exactly how low our standards are and how little we seem to care about them.
The logic of our present transport mentality was eloquently expressed by Iarnrod Eireann recently when they dismissed any thoughts of a rail link between Shannon and Limerick as “not viable under the present circumstances because there are not enough people to warrant the service”. Such “flat earth” logic must be overcome; we are building an infrastructure now for our vision of the Limerick of the future with a population of 150,000 or so.
Put the service in place now; link the city with its hinterland, get people to see that the public transport system is the only sustainable, comfortable and safe way to commute. Then they might leave their cars at home.
The Limerick City Orbital route, as proposed in the City Centre Strategy document, seems to me to lack boldness and should be extended to cover a greater area of the city centre, and maybe should cross the river to the north side of the city. This is only a quibble and should not detract from the overall debate on the development of a vision for Limerick.
The other catalysts mentioned will be in the public domain in the very near future. The St Mary’s Park master plan is due to be announced within the next month at the most, the outcome of the application for Gateway funds will be known early in the New Year. The Docklands master plan has been on hold but I understand that it should be reactivated in the near future.
So, the framework is in place, are we prepared to participate in the challenge to develop our VISION for a vibrant, multi-cultural city of 150,000 inhabitants by 2020? Our children’s future depends on the answer to that question
01 November 2007
Was told today the Opera Centre is gone back to the planners but there also seemed to be people in some of the shops starting to strip them out. Anyone know what the story is ? Heard they were trying to incorporate the Granary into it now ?
Anyone?Ever since the new investors took over from regeneration developments, theres been speculation that they wanted to alter the plans for the centre. I think the Limerick leader had it a few months back that the new owners would submit a revised application by the end of this year. I really cant see how the granary could be incorporated into the shopping centre, seen as its a protected structure I would be wary of any attempts to alter it in any way, hopefully the City Council would take a similar view!
There is a glass office block built inside the Granary courtyard, whether this is what they have their eyes on, im not sure. There are a large number of businesses based in that building and it would be a big task to relocate them all. I really wish they’d get a move on, the vast swathes of empty buildings on Patrick St/ Rutland St and Ellen Street are doing nothing for the city centre.:(
Below
Newly restored Granary c.1985
Prior to restoration, 1970s
I cought a glimpse of the Athurs Quay Park on my way through town this morning and guess what? The fences are finally gone!
i love the Granary building myself. Its a pity more of those buildings were not restored instead of demolished. Going by the old pictures of the city there was a hell of a lot more there than are left now. I think there is one on Roches Street which is to be restored and the Antique shop near the Horse and Hound pub on William St/Mulgrave street is nicely done recently.
Its a pity most of these were not kept. They are the kind of buildings you don’t see everywhere
@vkid wrote:
i love the Granary building myself. Its a pity more of those buildings were not restored instead of demolished. Going by the old pictures of the city there was a hell of a lot more there than are left now. I think there is one on Roches Street which is to be restored and the Antique shop near the Horse and Hound pub on William St/Mulgrave street is nicely done recently.
Its a pity most of these were not kept. They are the kind of buildings you don’t see everywhere
My understanding is the owner of the Granary is one of the people to whom the original Opera Centre consortium have sold up to,
I’m not sure but that the lease the council have for the library are their area and such isn’t up in the next few years. It might see the building retained but the use changed to be the cafe area of the Opera centre with the glass structure opening into the centre itself.
i wonder are they starting it anyway…there was workmen going in and out of the buildings this morning again and they are definitely stripping out some of the shops and the old workspace building..plenty high vis vests going in that gate near the old Quinns pub..
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