visual inspections
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Priory Hall apartments never checked by fire inspectors and just a visual check by the architects
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priory-hall-apartments-never-checked-by-fire-inspectors-2908482.htmlGoing to be a lot more of this.
As my old gaffer who lived by the banks of the Tolka used to say…
“When the water goes out….you see all the rusty shopping trolleys”.
I watched the discussion on Primetime will interest.
Many might try to blame the system but surely someone has been dishonest here?
The inspector on Primetime stated that “inner rooms” were constructed in apartments which is fundamentally against fire regulations (TGD B) This is the crux of Priory Halls apartment scandal, as it can not be argued that the works “were covered up or inaccessible“.If the “inner rooms” were constructed then the Design didn’t comply with Document B, the structure was constructed contrary to a condition on the Fire Certificate and the opninion on compliance was deeply flawed.
Who signed the Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations / Control?
Was the signatory a member of a professional body?
Even a basic visual inspection would have spotted the “inner room” which was to be removed as a condition on the Fire Cert.I note the RIAI has been very silent on this issue. Yet in the past RIAI sought to be seen as a protector of Consumer Rights.
Surely the RIAI must advise the public on this matter & take appropiate action against any member that may have been involved.I believe that severe prison sentances are the only remedy to Priory Hall apartments. The public must be protected from one of the worst instances of non- compliance in the history of the State. The residents have suffered terrible hardships.
Shame on all those involved.Does anyone know what the ‘inner room’ is? I’m wondering if it is a Kitchen accessed off a living room.
Twould be difficult to miss during a visual inspection. :crazy:Oh of course, for when you are feeling peckish during the night and
need to raid the fridge in a hurry :clap: . Architecture bedamnedI think that there’s a danger of going off on one here. Typical RTE sensationalism- has anyone actually seen a plan or a recognised professional actually inside an apartment explaining to anyone what the issues actually are (if indeed there are any inside the apartments)? If a journalist – and I use that term loosely when it comes to Prime Time – had actually asked anyone what was actually the issue then maybe it wouldn’t be such an issue. Of course, Miriam wouldn’t have been able to climb on her high horse otherwise
This is the plan. These are the non-compliant double bedrooms located off the living rooms with shared kitchens. These are duplex units, hence no lobbies off the stairs.
The Prime Time report was quite balanced. The shame of course being that these matters are being reported on after the horse has bolted – i.e. our ‘economic miracle’ and all that sailed in her. Producers and senior reporters were too busy reporting on binge drinking while building second homes and apartments in Bulgaria to notice.
Indeed, the lack of coverage in all the media of the regulatory aspect of this appalling spectacle for over a week since the story gained legs said it all. We have such an appalling suburban media in this country.
how many of those duplex units are there? It doesn’t look like a big deal – a bit of wall and another door
I can’t imagine that they would evacuate the whole place for that – I think the cavity barrier issue is the real reason
It is yep. But there are multiple problems, including smoke extraction on the stairwells, fire separation in the external walls, fire separation in the ghastly timber-framed uppermost floors, fire insultation on gas installations, failing render and damp issues, and whatever you’re having yourself.
@wearnicehats wrote:
I think that there’s a danger of going off on one here. Typical RTE sensationalism- has anyone actually seen a plan or a recognised professional actually inside an apartment explaining to anyone what the issues actually are (if indeed there are any inside the apartments)? If a journalist – and I use that term loosely when it comes to Prime Time – had actually asked anyone what was actually the issue then maybe it wouldn’t be such an issue. Of course, Miriam wouldn’t have been able to climb on her high horse otherwise
This saga, me thinks is going to be a ” David Grant” moment for the brotherhood in Merrion, who are so silent at the moment. Looking at the drawings shown, no person calling themselves an “architect”, or otherwise, could have made such a basic error, unless they slept right through their fire safety lectures, but! we can blame the fire dept, whom did not seem to spot this obvious error, we can blame the engineers, the surveyors, the builder, and the planning office as well, we can blame the banks, and ultimately we can blame the poor sods whom bought these death traps, but woe behold, lets not blame the architects responsible for the design and certification of the structure. I for one am not the person to close ranks around “one of me own” , unlike the legal and medical profession, and I will call a spade a spade, and s***e s***t (can I say “shite” Mr Clerkin ??) This appears to be a major cock up, of untold magnitude by the architects, and I feel this will be the catalyst for a shake in the whole , self certification system, and will lead to a system the same as found in NI, and the UK, where building control will check the works, in tandem with the inspecting architect. I see another major stream of income now being withered away, thanks lads..
also this is manna from heaven to those unqualified successes, to those lads in the AA, they must be pointing their broadside cannons towards Johns battlements on the square. It will interesting to see how both sides handle this propaganda piece?
are you sure that inner rooms aren’t allowed in duplexes?
Not if over 4.5 metres from the ground according to the quoted regs.
got a section through them?
the main thing is that this hasn’t been dragging on for 2 years or anything
Closing door after horse has bolted
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/closing-door-after-horse-has-bolted-2908533.htmlPriory Hall architects get abusive calls
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priory-hall-architects-get-abusive-calls-2914377.htmlmore half-arsed say nothing reporting.
The reason I ask about the section is that PArt B regarding duplexes is far from simple. Ground levels vs access levels, staircase ratings etc. All is not always what it seems
I can understand (as opposed to condoning) missing cavity barriers etc given the current inspection system in place versus speed of construction and skill of contractor. Having worked in the UK I can assure you the system there doesn’t catch everything. What I can’t understand is how the fire safety systems were commissioned however ie in full working order. all – not to deflect it – that’s not necessarily to do with the architect. Why would an architect not issue PC if advised by the fire consultant that all the systems are working ok.
The layouts would be acceptable in many other parts of the world…
Anyway inspections don’t always pick up everything whats new…I stayed in an apartment (one floor) in Switzerland that
had two bedrooms opening directly onto the living area.
One of these bedrooms was accessed directly off the
kitchenette part of the same living area. A short
corridor with bathroom off led directly to the main
door onto the stairwell (3 stories) without a sperating door.
It was quite a new apartment. I presume the same type
of layouts can be found all over Europe. One thing about
the Priory Hall layout apart from the Fire Safety issues is
the way the door opens out from the living room onto
the landing- it looks pretty awkward. :crazy:Another thing. Do you have to jump over the dining room table to get
out onto the stair-well. This is pure shite at very basic design level
regardless of the fire-safety issues.
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