transport21

@reddy wrote:

Please tell me where I was offensive or pompous by the way? I apologise.

gotta go now. Just to say I thought that comment was actually directed at me?

I dont agree with the Buchanan report by the way (more condescension). I think the concentration of investment in major centres is of course the most effective way to development but the concentration of investment in one major conurbation running the length of the East coast is completely unsustainable and will just reinforce the problems which Dublin is suffering

now.

Just to follow on from Alonso’s point, failure to pursue the Buchanan Reports findings have meant that the “concentration of investment in one major conurbation running the length of the East coast” has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen. Wildly spraying development over the ‘west’ coast, with a range of dubious state supported infrastructure (be they airports or raillines) does nothing to balance regional development. It just results in the failure of any of these regional centres to gain or sustain critical mass, and growth, and population continuing to migrate to Dublin.

Once more and with feeling, scale is critical if firms are to able to take advantage of the increasing returns to scale and external economies of scale associated with urban settlements. We’re a very small country with one urban settlement of any scale (and even then its only a medium size city), entertaining the fantasy that every town of more than 2000 people can hope to compete for businesses is both dangerous and counterproductive. Building critical mass in a small number of larger settlements with their own hinterland is the only way of slowing the relative growth of Dublin vs the rest of the country. In reality, on a national level, the only real question should be whether or not Waterford should be considered as large enough to qualify as such. Otherwise, the message is simple and has been for decades, concentrate on the city regions of Cork, Limerick and Galway as the key nodes for future growth. With proper planning, prioritised infrastructure delivery, and the appropriate industrial development policies, it may even be possible to at least partially balance regional development.

No sorry at the time of the establishment of Shannon development and the early ideas about the creation of the free zone.

@reddy wrote:

And please don’t condescend us by claiming the WRC and indeed Shannon airport are parochial, self centred concerns. The loss of the Heathrow slots at Shannon will have been a major blow to the the competitiveness of the entire Western region, evidenced by the srong opposition to the plan from the CEOs of major international corporations, not just councillors, TDs and priests. .

I laugh at this. Shannon lost its Heathrow slots because it gave Ryanair a sweetheart deal to compete on the London route and then Aer Lingus began to consider its options. It’s the management’s own fault and the ceos etc should have been complaining to them rather than believing that a listed company should serve their interests.

@ctesiphon wrote:

(notjim- finally we disagree!)

I don’t know if we agree or not, I don’t really have an opinion, I don’t have the facts, I just find the whole debate annoying, especially on the anti-wrc side, they may be right but they use the same look-at-the-state of-this-country you-are-an-eejit-by-definition rhetoric that is so irritating in the high rise at any cost people.

Again, it seems to me some principle of subsidiarity should apply, devolving decision making to a local level: obviously some portion of the T21 funds should be spent in the west, to me it seems clear that what eg Galway needs is help for commuters, the traffic is terrible, so run a train back and forward to Oranmore or even Athenry and think what can be done for Barna, Headford and Tuam. However, the local representatives and activists are clear that this, the WRC, is what they want, surely we should respect that?

Perhaps the disastrous record of local decision making in planning makes people despair of subsidiarity, but it seems to me that giving people more responsibility, not less, is the answer.

I still maintain however that development of infrastructure must not be just in answer to chronic need and where it is occurring in advance of this, hopefully stimulating investment and the attractiveness of the region, then it should be welcomed. Thats all I’m saying.[/QUOTE]

I agree totally with this, public transport infrastructure shouldn’t always be built as a reaction to chronic need, advance planning is ok too. By way of an example, I believe my own neck of the woods (Cork city) has reached a stage where I believe light rail / trams should be introduced linking the major suburbs. This doesn’t mean it has reached the stage (in terms of congestion) that Dublin was at 3 years ago when it finally got the Luas – far from. It merely means I believe it has reached the stage in terms of population, movement of people and planned population increase where in most other European countries a proper public transport infrastructure (not just irregular and sparse bus routes) would be put in place.

The WRC may be a different kettle of fish but I’ll stay out of that debate as I know little on the topic. I do think that reddys statement above is very true and a proper criticism of how infrastructure is planned in this country however.

On a related topic, the Greens (before they became chief mourner’s at Bertie’s funeral) claimed as part of the programme for government to have negotiated the procurement of full reports into the viability of light rail in Cork and Galway within the first year (I think) of the government’s life. Has anything been done in this regard?

Here is how, when completed, this “rapid” rail corridor will function:

8 times a day a train will leave Clairemorris and make its way to Galway via Athenry. Between Clairemorris and Tuam it will cross over the N17 at grade no less than 3 times.

It will then reverse out of Galway and return to Athenry and REVERSE again and make its way to Limerick.

Then it will REVERSE once more and make its way to Lim Junction.

and 8 times a day another train will do the same absurd dance in the reverse direction.

Average running speed 35 MPH.

In no other country would this joke be allowed to happen. Let alone be prioritised ahead of Navan, Midleton, Interconnector, Metro, Luas etc…

@notjim wrote:

How long will Tuam-Galway take?

I was told an hour which seemed a bit long to me at first as there are no level crossings between Tuam and Athenry, but apparently a passing loop will be required at Ballygulin to allow trains to pass each other and this will slow it down. It will also have to wait to make connections with Dublin-Galway trains. Main line trains will have priority over WRC at Athenry which means the WRC will also be a stop-start railway.

In other words driving or taking the bus will be faster, cheaper and unlike the sacred WRC they actually serve the main industrial estates in Galway.

Still the 6 or 7 grannies on free travel passes will love it.

@notjim wrote:

You see, a simple question but always the heavy-handed “ironic” rhetoric! What is it about this issue. .

It’s quite simple jim. Fianna Fail is using the national exchequer to bribe the Western voters by throwing money at a useless dysfunctional rail project with no basis in economic feasibility or social need. All the while the commuters of Dublin, Cork and Galway choke at their roundabouts and crossroads as commuter rail lines are shelved, reshelved and eventually binned for the time being.

If you think the reaction to this is “heavy handed” fair enough. It’s not something people are likely to be less than pissed off with