transport21
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@notjim wrote:
jdivision: you don’t think settlement patterns will adjust to the route meaning a) it will be well used in the future and b) a better, more clustered pattern of settlement will be the result?
No I don’t, I think it’ll be massive waste of money subsidised by the taxpayer in order for politicians to claim they were responsible for it and should be re-elected. As far as I’m concerned no work should happen on this project until such time as public transport services in Dublin, Cork and indeed Galway itself are improved.
@notjim wrote:
of course running a commuter service from Oranmore doesn’t require the WRC: it is a mystery why this hasn’t happened already.
Agreed.
That the WRC is going ahead does not mean an excuse for delays in delivering the Navan and Midleton lines. All should be open asap imo.
The real benefits of the wrc should be seen in a strategic context – linkage between Waterford, Cork, Limerick, and Galway, with a renewed orbital route from Rosslare port around the country – as opposed to being only Dublin radial based. Whats needed now is for Irish Rail to get back into freight, and devise strategies as to how best maximise this infrastructure.
the real tragedy is that the line in Galway is single track, so intercity trains from Limerick and Dublin as well as Athenry commuter have to use a single track system. Also if the govt. had any sence, there would be a direct Galway Waterford service to accomidate a one change Galway-Cork servive. Otherwise a journey from Galway to Cork would require 2 changes. It would even be possible to make a minor inexpensive track alteration at Limerick Junction to allow direct Cork-Galway service. That would be what really gets the customers out of cars as changing trains can be a hastle
@BTH wrote:
It’s happening – get over it.
I’d have a few concerns about the WRC myself but the positives far outweigh the negatives. It will transform movement between population centres on the western seaboard. Unfortunately, Cute Panda, with your “funny” comments about priests/our lady/knock etc it would appear that you simply have a chip on your shoulder that something/anything to do with infrastructural development is hapening in the west. The only reason it’s happening prior to many other nescessary schemes around the country is that the level of work required is relatively minimal.
It is happening faster than other projects, because, as with Shannon Airport, the political muscle in “the West” is far better organised and better flexed than elsewhere in the country. The Cork – Midleton railway is being done an the previous alignment, similar to the WRC, yet we’ve seen teh Government announce the project ad nauseum for the last 5 years and it still won’t be done until late next year.
The relevant authorities don’t tend to prioritise projects on ease of delivery, they go on what is possible within the budget allocation. The WRC will cost in the region of €600-700m all in when it’s finished so the pressure was applied to get the wheels rolling as it were.
I’d have a few concerns about the WRC myself but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
I don’t see any positives at all. I looks good on the rail map of Ireland but that’s it. Every argument for the WRC could be used to justify the Limerick to Rosslare service if it didn’t already exist. The WRC will be patronised even less that Limerick to Rosslare which also looks reasonable on the rail map but is a complete waste of time. Here’s a novel thought; provide rail where there’s a demand for it and where it is going to succeed; it’s not hard to know where that is – you don’t even have to research international findings – just look at the national experience. Rail works well between or in areas of high population density. The latest once-off housing free-for-all announced by Mayo county council show that there will never be the type of settlement patterns along the line to justify more rail lines there. The Panda is right – the WRC is a bad Irish joke.
http://www.transport21.ie/Maps_And_Videos/Video/Transport_21_Video.html
new transport21 video. the website changed it’s colour scheme to match it’s new logo. seems they are more concerned with the publicity than actually doing the work
@hutton wrote:
The real benefits of the wrc should be seen in a strategic context – linkage between Waterford, Cork, Limerick, and Galway, with a renewed orbital route from Rosslare port around the country – as opposed to being only Dublin radial based. .
You do realise that Irish Rail has said that it would be cheaper for them to pay for people to get a taxi from Limerick to Rosslare than to run the Limerick-Rosslare service. This plan has no basis in reality. It’ll be a white elephant
Really patronising ads that they have at the moment – although I assume that the 10 year-olds featured in the ads are now running transport 21, lets face it they’d probably be better than those involved to date
@cgcsb wrote:
the real tragedy is that the line in Galway is single track, so intercity trains from Limerick and Dublin as well as Athenry commuter have to use a single track system. Also if the govt. had any sence, there would be a direct Galway Waterford service to accomidate a one change Galway-Cork servive. Otherwise a journey from Galway to Cork would require 2 changes. It would even be possible to make a minor inexpensive track alteration at Limerick Junction to allow direct Cork-Galway service. That would be what really gets the customers out of cars as changing trains can be a hastle
I’ve actually studied Limerick junction’s location and it wouldn’t be that hard to put a direct curve from Cork to Limerick at the junction, similar to the Limerick to Dublin curve.
But then again Irish Rail don’t do sense :p
@Angry Rebel wrote:
It is happening faster than other projects, because, as with Shannon Airport, the political muscle in “the West” is far better organised and better flexed than elsewhere in the country.
Dont be ridiculous. If tou remember correctly the lobby to save the Shannon Heathrow slots failed so clearly the political muscle isnt as powerful as you’d like to think. The WRC is being built because it will serve a large population.
The population of Limerick city and the immediate urban area (environs/suburbs) is 90778, the population of Galway city and environs is 72729 (based on the 2006 census carried out by the CSO), the population of Ennis is approaching 32,000 (projected population for 2008). This gives a total of over 195,000.
The Ennis-Limerick rail line is currently carrying 200,000 passengers a year. This will increase exponentially as more towns and especially Galway city are brought onto the network.
This planning of infrastructure to serve large populations and encourage growth and stimulate activity is exactly the kind of forward planning we need. Criticism of its implementation is quite a strange thing to see here to be honest.
And please don’t condescend us by claiming the WRC and indeed Shannon airport are parochial, self centred concerns. The loss of the Heathrow slots at Shannon will have been a major blow to the the competitiveness of the entire Western region, evidenced by the srong opposition to the plan from the CEOs of major international corporations, not just councillors, TDs and priests. The WRC is a strategic project central to providing a viable alternative to investment and population growth along the Eastern seaboard.
You see that is my feeling: we whine and whine about how infrastructure lags need in Dublin and then get all pompous when it is proposed to let infrastructure lead growth in the west.
oh for God’s sake! If the people of the West can’t see the WRC as the electoral bribe it is then God help the region.,To build this useless piece of crap while Dublin and Cork and other cities choke is typical parish pump gombeenism at it’s most rapacious.If you can put a case forward for the WRC over any single rail proposal for Dublin from either T21 or the DTO Strategy from a national perspective (yes National), please do. I’ll reinforce my sides for the response as I’m sure they’ll split – especially those population figures quoted before – talk about lame – compare let’s say the Western rail corridors scattered car-happy catchment to I dunno – Swords with 120,000 people, across the field from a Blanch with 100,000 people,not forgetting of course the wee village of Tallaght growing (up and up) to over 100,000) – North Bray 30,000, Inner Dublin up to 600,000 and beyond. Phase1 of the Navan Rail line from City centre to Pace will probably carry more than this ludicrous nonsense of a line
“The Ennis-Limerick rail line is currently carrying 200,000 passengers a year”
That’s significantly less than 1 train per day.Is this a joke
As for Shannon, there are about 5 airports in the West ffs.Choose one. Develop it.Then leave us alone! Same principle apples hospitals, universities, theatres, and moreover;towns and cities.
Read the Buchanan report while you’re at it
ah yes a pompous bombastic response filled with “we are the worst people on earth”-isms: can I direct you to the p11 board?
Well basically what you’re espousing is a one sided development of infrastructure in the country. I think its about time we began to provide infrastructure which will stimulate growth and development rather than play catch up at providing infrastructure after the fact.
Alonso when you say choose one and then leave us alone. What the hell is that meant to mean? What are you grouchy that your precious tax money is being spent on infrastructure projects in the West? It works both ways. There are more than 4 million people on this island and less than half live in Dublin. This Dublin centric view is suprising especially on an island as small as ours and I’m disappointed to see it on this site where I thought people were in favour of the sensible development of the country and not just Dublin.
I posted those population figures not to be competing with Dublin by the way but purely to prove a point that a rail service is more than viable along this corridor.
You should bear in mind that Shannon free zone is the largest industrial centre outside the IFSC. It is a major economic generator and has a regional and national impact.
I dont agree with the Buchanan report by the way (more condescension). I think the concentration of investment in major centres is of course the most effective way to development but the concentration of investment in one major conurbation running the length of the East coast is completely unsustainable and will just reinforce the problems which Dublin is suffering now.
The WRC is the national equivalent of Luas BX- projects with very suspect rationales that, due to political grandstanding and interference, have captured the public imagination, the necessity for each being seen as an a priori fact when the truth is considerably messier. Yes, they should have existed long before now, but that doesn’t make the case for building them immediately, or at all.
But why am I talking about truth? Local politicians are involved. Truth packed its bags a long time ago.
(notjim- finally we disagree!)
@reddy wrote:
Well basically what you’re espousing is a one sided development of infrastructure in the country. I think its about time we began to provide infrastructure which will stimulate growth and development rather than play catch up at providing infrastructure after the fact.
Where did I espouse that. All I’m espousing is a halt on our money being flushed down the crypto infested drains of the West. Consolidate.You’ve been pushing this same agenda aince the foundation of th4 State.It has failed the West, it has failedCork and it has failed Dublin.I advocate a changing of the record
Alonso when you say choose one and then leave us alone. What the hell is that meant to mean? What are you grouchy that your precious tax money is being spent on infrastructure projects in the West? It works both ways. There are more than 4 million people on this island and less than half live in Dublin. This Dublin centric view is suprising especially on an island as small as ours and I’m disappointed to see it on this site where I thought people were in favour of the sensible development of the country and not just Dublin.
Because between Sligo,Knock, Shannon, Galway, Derry and Cork,the Western and Southern seaboards have managed yet again to dilute all of our taxes into ineffective small scattered facilities that don’t seem to work,while Dublin is over congested waiting for investment that’s a decade overdue.Had Cork been developed to a greater extent rather than dispersing funds this may not have happened
I posted those population figures not to be competing with Dublin by the way but purely to prove a point that a rail service is more than viable along this corridor.
I posted the figures to prove that a rail service was urgent along those corridors.
You should bear in mind that Shannon free zone is the largest industrial centre outside the IFSC. It is a major economic generator and has a regional and national impact.
It’s a fabricated economic zone in a senseless location.Why didn’t they do an IFSC in Limerick City?
I dont agree with the Buchanan report by the way (more condescension). I think the concentration of investment in major centres is of course the most effective way to development but the concentration of investment in one major conurbation running the length of the East coast is completely unsustainable and will just reinforce the problems which Dublin is suffering now.
No One advocated that ever. Not I nor Sir Colin Buchanan.EVer. You’ve managed to state your disagreement with Buchanan yet then espouse the central tenet of the wholebloody document – “I think the concentration of investment in major centres is of course the most effective way to development”.
@notjim wrote:
ah yes a pompous bombastic response filled with “we are the worst people on earth”-isms: can I direct you to the p11 board?
Bombastic perhaps. Pompous? I find the arrogant posturing and grandstanding of “western advocates” who by cutting yet another ribbon and by developing another field con their electorate into believing it’s all good for the region to be far more offensive and pompous. This attitude displayed by yourself and reddy is EXACTLY what’s compromising the development of the Western seaboard. Until settlements in Connacht start realistically aiming for critical mass it will always be like this.
This is far beyond the WRC as I alluded to earlier. What other nation on earth would people elect a Government Party TD to fight against Govt policy, as the Shannonsiders did with O’Dea-Vote Fianna Fail to prevent FF Policy being implemented?
Major Centres! Not one major centre. Thats where I dont agree with what your saying. Major centres can potentially include Dublin, Cork, Limerick-Ennis-Shannon, Galway, Sligo, Waterford, Athlone and many others.
The consolidation of development in the country to the East coast has been espoused recently in the Skehan/Sirr plan https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6840.I completely agree about Cork being underdeveloped.
I also completely agree that those areas in Dublin urgently need transport provision. However it should not consistently be at the expense of other parts of the state.
The IFSC was originally planned for Shannon actually and Charlie Haughey placed it in Dublin in a pre election manifesto. The free zone was located at what was the worlds busiest airport at the time and a centre of international connection and trade.
Please tell me where I was offensive or pompous by the way? I apologise.
@alonso wrote:
oh for God’s sake! If the people of the West can’t see the WRC as the electoral bribe it is then God help the region.,To build this useless piece of crap while Dublin and Cork and other cities choke is typical parish pump gombeenism at it’s most rapacious.If you can put a case forward for the WRC over any single rail proposal for Dublin from either T21 or the DTO Strategy from a national perspective (yes National), please do. I’ll reinforce my sides for the response as I’m sure they’ll split – especially those population figures quoted before – talk about lame – compare let’s say the Western rail corridors scattered car-happy catchment to I dunno – Swords with 120,000 people, across the field from a Blanch with 100,000 people,not forgetting of course the wee village of Tallaght growing (up and up) to over 100,000) – North Bray 30,000, Inner Dublin up to 600,000 and beyond. Phase1 of the Navan Rail line from City centre to Pace will probably carry more than this ludicrous nonsense of a line
There are 33,000 people in Swords and 500,000 people in Dublin City according to the 2006 census
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