The scaffolding dissappears…
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johnglas.
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- March 17, 2005 at 9:59 pm #751635
Anonymous
Inactive@phil wrote:
I think an image like that really demonstrates how much of a difference the jumble of signs, cars etc make to vistas such as that. And that area is not even that heavily cluttered.
College Green takes the biscuit on that score, the level of clutter at that site is really second to none.
Graham, In relation to the photoshop image you have put together of St Georges, 🙂 I am facinated by the right hand side of Harwicke St in the Victorian image and the way that the chimney stacks visable to the rear of the Church added to the setting.
March 17, 2005 at 10:10 pm #751636GrahamH
ParticipantThe original setting must have been something else – although the Georgians seemed to have come a lot closer to the church than the present day crescent.
Here’s the last houses on the street – quite modest merchant housing; they’re even nicer on the opposite side and all could do with restoration. At least some efforts have been made to improve the area with PVC :rolleyes:
:March 18, 2005 at 12:25 pm #751637kefu
ParticipantSorry about this, but I can’t see any of the photos of St George’s Church. Is there anyway of posting them again as individual attachments?
March 18, 2005 at 12:37 pm #751638Anonymous
Inactive@Thomond Park wrote:
College Green takes the biscuit on that score, the level of clutter at that site is really second to none.
Very true, as demonstrated in the An Taisce report: Dublinspirations. I noticed recently that the CCTV pole on the central traffic island is exactly inline with the axis of Trinity’s front arch and the Campanale.
March 18, 2005 at 3:09 pm #751639Anonymous
Inactive@phil wrote:
Very true, as demonstrated in the An Taisce report: Dublinspirations. I noticed recently that the CCTV pole on the central traffic island is exactly inline with the axis of Trinity’s front arch and the Campanale.
I saw the image in the Indo a few months back and as they say a picture really does tell a thousand words and as for the new camera sure isn’t it the Southsides version of the spire and it’s only wonderful that it aligns perfectly with the apex of the Trinity facade. :rolleyes:
Kefu the pictures are in the post I nearly missed them as well , it is such an image rich post that it takes ages to load if you are dependent on a dodgy server like myself. 😎
March 18, 2005 at 3:56 pm #751640kefu
ParticipantAn interesting article from the Irish Times here, which seems to suggest that the spire can not be saved without being dismantled and rebuilt.
From the Irish Times, February ’02 by Frank McDonald
One of the most important landmarks in the centre of Dublin, St George’s Church in Hardwicke Place, is now the subject of a dangerous buildings order, The Irish Times has learned.
The order, issued by Dublin City Council, requires the owner of the former church to remove all the loose stonework in its triple-tiered steeple and wrap it in wire mesh to prevent any more falling off.
But the council has no money to assist the owner, Redgrove Properties Ltd, of Galway, in restoring the building because the Government halved grants for the restoration of heritage properties in this year’s Budget.
The cost of restoring the steeple and portico of St George’s (now the Temple Theatre) is estimated at €3 million, equivalent to the entire allocation for 2002 of funding for the restoration of heritage properties throughout the State.
The steeple of St George’s, which is nearly as high as Liberty Hall, is the only church spire that can be seen from O’Connell Bridge. It is also the first landmark that greets visitors on their way in to the city centre from Dublin Airport.
The former church, which was opened in 1814 and deconsecrated more than a decade ago, is acknowledged as the masterpiece of Francis Johnston, architect of the GPO in O’Connell Street and the Chapel Royal in Dublin Castle.
Its steeple has been surrounded by scaffolding for the past 15 years because the Portland stone was cracking due to expansion of the iron cramps that held it in place, the same problem that once afflicted the Custom House.
The Church of Ireland, having tried in vain to raise funds for the restoration of St George’s, sold the building in 1991 to an actor, Mr Sean Simon, who had plans to turn it into a theatre. He, too, eventually gave up.
After its deconsecration, the bells which Leopold Bloom heard ringing in Ulysses were removed to Taney Church in Dundrum, while the ornate pulpit was carved up to decorate Thomas Read’s pub in Parliament Street.
Even after St George’s became a major “rave” venue, further attempts were made to raise public funds for its restoration; first, in 1991, to celebrate Dublin’s role as European City of Culture, and later from the Millennium Committee.
But despite its location in the heart of the Taoiseach’s constituency, no funding was forthcoming.
“It is absolutely scandalous that this has been allowed to go on and on,” Mr David Slattery, the conservation architect, said yesterday.
Mr Slattery, who was responsible for the restoration of the Custom House in 1991, said there was absolutely no doubt that St George’s could be restored, although this would probably mean taking down and rebuilding its steeple.
His 1991 report on the church found that the cornice and frieze of its Greek-style portico were also affected by spalling stonework due to the expansion of ferrous metal clamps.
According to Mr Slattery, the present owner of the church could not be saddled with the bill for its restoration.
“Given that our historic buildings are one of the main reasons tourists come here, surely Bord Fáilte could chip in,” he said.
In the meantime, Redgrove Properties Ltd has been given 28 days to carry out the works required by the city council to remove the danger posed by stonework from the church’s landmark steeple falling into the street.March 18, 2005 at 5:35 pm #751641GrahamH
Participant@kefu wrote:
His 1991 report on the church found that the cornice and frieze of its Greek-style portico were also affected by spalling stonework due to the expansion of ferrous metal clamps.
You’d wonder what state the stonework is in now, 14 years on.
That metal clamp problem is a nasty one – this job will probably take a long long time if the steeple has to be pratically rebuilt. In the case of the Custom House, I wonder if each block had to be removed individually to access the deficient clamps or if there was another way of doing it?March 18, 2005 at 5:42 pm #751642Anonymous
InactiveThat is an interesting question and you would hope for the owners sake that technology has moved on, I also wonder did he know the true extent of the works facing him? I hope he did and that the full cost has finance in the wings.
March 20, 2005 at 10:33 am #751643Devin
Participant


St. George’s
The loss of St. George’s planned context of Georgian houses – its (near) axial street and crescent to the front – was sad. But at least the replacement ‘50s flats approximately replicated the original planning design. The flats are not bad architecturally, but they’ve been ruined by fat ugly shiny white PVC windows. Dublin Corporation, as they were then, went on a huge programme in the mid/late ‘90s of PVC-ing all their flats throughout the city centre, including architecturally important ones like those on Sandwith/Townsend St. I don’t think that would even happen now, ten years later – I think sustainable timber would be the only option (for timber).Law Society building
Another sad loss of formal Georgian setting was Blackhall Street (top), which led to the Law Society building, formerly the Blue Coat School, on Blackhall Place (Graham’s photo of St. George’s original setting is reposted for reference). Unlike Hardwicke Street/Hardwicke Place, this street has been fairly comprehensively mucked-up by three different stlyes and periods of council housing.The Law Society building was originally to have had a nice tower (above), but it was never completed for lack of funds.
March 20, 2005 at 4:15 pm #751644Anonymous
InactiveDevin that is a really good image of Blackhall St with the background framed by the Bluecoat School (which was also home to Kings Hospital School for a time) the fact that a terrace of Georgians were lost whilst a terrace of modest Edwardian 2 storey red-bricks were retained just goes to show how misguided ‘deveolpment policies’ were in Dublin in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. It is an image I have never seen before as I always think of 1970’s electrical wholesalers when I think of that area. It really is a pity as were many other of the so called ‘slum clearances’ none more unfortunate than the loss of the context of St Georges.
March 20, 2005 at 9:39 pm #751645GrahamH
ParticipantWhat an image indeed – never knew there was such imposing Georgian development so far west, although it makes sense now when you consider the Blue Coat next door. What a crying shame it was swept away, esp considering how regular the terraces were – look at all those chimneys marching along on the left 🙁 (even if they’re probably Victorian :))
And when you consider the general mess that’s there today…The dome of the Blue Coat is great – it’s so obvious it was never intended for the building, and it looks even stranger at the moment because panels of it have just been re-coppered as part of the building’s restoration project.
As for the Hardwicke St flats, yes the PVC is awful, and is even worse on the grand Mercer St flats as another example. It’s such a pity to see them all ruined this way. By contrast, the Iveagh Trust restores most if not all of its many thousands of original sashes at its various locations, even as far back as the mid-90s when the Corpo were taking them out.
Just on these vistas in Dublin though – despite how quaint and charming and all the rest of it that these places are – you’d really wonder at the inability of developers to properly lay out their lands so they’d actually work visually.
I mean Hardwicke St isn’t alligned with St George’s, the Rotunda isn’t alligned with O’Connell St, from what I can make out from that image above, the Blue Coat School wasn’t correctly positioned with Blackhall St…it’s surprising it was even bothered to put City Hall head-on with Parliament/Capel St!
The Pepper Cannister on Mount St is about the only Georgian vista that works, and it’s because it’s the only one that it’s so hackneyed at this stage.Of course there was difficulty in acquiring neighbouring lands and some older roads were laid out before others etc, but it’s just frustrating to see so many lost opportunities still niggling around 200 years later.
March 20, 2005 at 11:33 pm #751646Paul Clerkin
KeymasterI always thought that it would have been better to leave what had been built of the Blue Coat tower intact rather than removing it and putting that copper stub on….
April 4, 2005 at 12:00 pm #751647Anonymous
Inactive@Paul Clerkin wrote:
I always thought that it would have been better to leave what had been built of the Blue Coat tower intact rather than removing it and putting that copper stub on….
Are there any images of the building before the tower was put on or was it that the design was changed?
April 4, 2005 at 12:16 pm #751648GrahamH
ParticipantYes – this most extraordinary image from the National Library’s Online Collection shows the foundations and base of the ill-fated tower (this collection’s a fantastic resource)
The following image is one of the strangest photographs you’re ever likely to see – brace yourself 🙂
http://kildarest.nli.ie/npa/lroy2/lroy3082.htm
I don’t know when the dumpy dome was put on though – perhaps around 1900?
April 4, 2005 at 12:19 pm #751649Anonymous
InactiveI’m a little confused as the Blue Coat School features in the Malton series of prints, was it depicted as being half finished?
April 4, 2005 at 12:27 pm #751650GrahamH
ParticipantCan’t say I remember what it is depicted as, though I’ve a feeling it’s half built in it – keep meaning to get Craig’s handy little book of prints…always need it for things like these!
April 4, 2005 at 3:33 pm #751651Rory W
Participant@Paul Clerkin wrote:
I always thought that it would have been better to leave what had been built of the Blue Coat tower intact rather than removing it and putting that copper stub on….
According to Craig Dublin 1660-1860 the stub was all that was built (albeit as a ‘temporary’ solution until funds were forthcoming)
April 4, 2005 at 5:23 pm #751652Anonymous
Inactive@Rory W wrote:
According to Craig Dublin 1660-1860 the stub was all that was built (albeit as a ‘temporary’ solution until funds were forthcoming)
Thanks for that Rory, Craig is always an authority on such matters, I wonder was what was erected designed as the original or was it a comtemporary design. I think I’ll trek down to the Archive and see if they have anything that may clear it up.
April 4, 2005 at 6:27 pm #751653GrahamH
ParticipantJust reading here – Ivory’s original spire base was circular, even though that built is octagonal. In Devin’s pic above it’s not totally clear if the base there is octagonal but presumably it is. Don’t know who that sketch is by….
The dome was eventually added in 1894.
Interesting to be able to see even today that the building really was built on a shoestring budget – not just indicated by the tower, but also the side elevations of the buildings; despite them being very prominent in the overall scheme, they’re just rubble stone.
The ashlar main facades have a bizarre almost stuck on appearance as a result.April 4, 2005 at 6:55 pm #751654Anonymous
InactiveJust to go back to the original discussion for a second (not that I mind the interesting line to which this thread has taken), but would I be right in saying that the scaffolding is presently going back up?
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