The Opera Centre
- This topic has 168 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
I see suggestions in the Limerick press that, though the Opera Centre seems to be on hold, the “derelict” buildings thereon should now be demolished, as it ruins the look of the city.
(Hollow laugh anyone?)
….and be replaced by a
(temporary) car park (are you laughing yet?)Seemingly, some person was “afraid” to walk by them.
dc3:
Same old same old then? Absolutely outrageous, as if the existing measures weren’t unacceptable enough (the retailers should never have been moved out with so little concrete action in motion to redevelop the site).
@gunter wrote:
I agree with you there vitruvious, and I had thought that what you describe was the way that shopping centre design was heading. I thought we were moving away from enclosed malls into a new ‘sheltered street’ future.
The internal ‘mall’ with the out-sized glazed entrance on the corner of Patrick St./Ellen St. doesn’t even run all the way through to Bank Place! The big glass box from the images of Bank Place isn’t the northern end of the ‘mall’ spilling out onto the ‘sculpture garden overlooking the river’, but instead is just a department store, or ‘anchor tennant!
Gunter, I was slightly bemused to say the least when I had a look at the floor plans. Like you, I had assumed that the mall snaked its way through the complex from the Ellen Street entrance right through to the Bank Place “plaza area”.
The developers have been making lots of noise about how the opera centre will provide “an attractive new pedestrian thoroughfare accessed through “two landmark entrances”. What utter rubbish! The mall stops well short of Bank Place and ends as you say, at the entrance to the main anchor tenant. I cant believe the planners didnt ask for this to be amended!
This issue could easily be rectified by shifting the anchor unit down to the Ellen Street/Michael Street corner (seen in green below). They could then extend the mall through to Bank Place and split the space originally set aside for the anchor into smaller units.
Altered Floor plan
This is just another flaw in what has been an absolutely shambolic attempt to put together a city centre shopping complex. I had a read through the architectural heritage assessment and also the response to concerns about the demolition of period buildings.
I dont think I’ve ever read a more pathetic attempt to justify the loss of historic building stock. For those of you who havent seen it, it basically uses a whole pile of a waffle in a desperate attempt to beef up an extremely weak argument, that the loss of the Ellen Street Georgians is essential in creating a vibrant streetscape!:confused: This tripe was supposedly written by a professional planning consultant.:o
Probably the best of the lot though, was the fact that they used the example of Cruise’s Hotel as a precedent for the demolition of buildings of historical and architectural significance. I think everyone would agree, that was a horrible mistake!:(
I wrote some time ago that the proposed Opera Centre would not start for at least another two years, if ever!. The Limerick Post ‘front page’ clarifys this, see views from Tony Connolly, Patrick Street, business man and the confirmation he received from City Hall. This is a continuing disgrace. What is going on? I call on on business persons in the detailed region to bin their demands for rates that may be due, and demand City Council knock the lot as Mr Connolly suggested . Yes open the area as a car park, or just board the lot up.. He is correct in saying the buildings are dangerous. So few of us ‘LOOK UP’, I suggest no-one should walk under No.5 Ellen St, as a serious gale/wind will bring down a beam that is at the moment. being supported by nothing other than a sticking plaster. It will mark my words, surly cause serious injury. In the last months the Fire Brigade have blocked the Street twice, (Ellen St,) four in all, with hatchets trying to gain entry to the boarded up premises (all in the early hours of the morning) this was all due to reported suspected fires being started in the buildings.by ??? who were burning mounds of paper in the buildings. I looked for media info on this, but there was none! How can the developers/Council get away with such apathy? IT IS a continuing disgrace, but then again, there is after all only a handful of us that give a damm about the affect this disgrace is affecting this lovly city. I believe if one had to walk through the old Town Hall one would not believe the distruction caused by Vandals. Mr Connolly thank you for your highlighting your genuine concerns.
@Fairy wrote:
I wrote some time ago that the proposed Opera Centre would not start for at least another two years, if ever!. The Limerick Post ‘front page’ clarifys this, see views from Tony Connolly, Patrick Street, business man and the confirmation he received from City Hall. This is a continuing disgrace. What is going on? I call on on business persons in the detailed region to bin their demands for rates that may be due, and demand City Council knock the lot as Mr Connolly suggested . Yes open the area as a car park, or just board the lot up.. He is correct in saying the buildings are dangerous. So few of us ‘LOOK UP’, I suggest no-one should walk under No.5 Ellen St, as a serious gale/wind will bring down a beam that is at the moment. being supported by nothing other than a sticking plaster. It will mark my words, surly cause serious injury. In the last months the Fire Brigade have blocked the Street twice, (Ellen St,) four in all, with hatchets trying to gain entry to the boarded up premises (all in the early hours of the morning) this was all due to reported suspected fires being started in the buildings.by ??? who were burning mounds of paper in the buildings. I looked for media info on this, but there was none! How can the developers/Council get away with such apathy? IT IS a continuing disgrace, but then again, there is after all only a handful of us that give a damm about the affect this disgrace is affecting this lovly city. I believe if one had to walk through the old Town Hall one would not believe the distruction caused by Vandals. Mr Connolly thank you for your highlighting your genuine concerns.
What exactly do you want to knock down? All the Georgian buildings on Patrick Street, Rutland Street, and Ellen Street? And are you suggesting that a car park would not be an eyesore?
@shanekeane wrote:
What exactly do you want to knock down? All the Georgian buildings on Patrick Street, Rutland Street, and Ellen Street? And are you suggesting that a car park would not be an eyesore?
It is IMO evident that the Opera Cenre will not happen for some time – if ever. What will happen to the buildings during the long wait, they will deteriate beyond redemption or worse still fall down. No-one seems to care how businesses in the area are being effected by the total lack of concern these boarded up builidngs are having on them. Of course I don’t want to see another eyesore such as a car park, but nothing other than a miracle will save the buildings on Rutland St, Patrick St, Ellen St, if they are to be kept as ‘a shrine’ for the next X amount of years, the developers should be made clean them up and make them safe. They cannot be left to the elements. What kind of lunacy was it to run people out of their businesses when in a sense, The Opera Centre was only a picture on a paper. Someone has to be held accountable, aesthetically the streets are a mess and regardless to whether the Centre will happen to-day or 10 years from now we should not have to feel ashamed when visitors on their way to the Hunt or KJC stop to take their pictures of the houses with trees growing out of them..
Guys we need to come to a decision with this soon, it’s holding the city back for either side
The boarded up georgain buildings been left there for another two years isn’t going to help. The city does need a shopping mall. I’m not saying bulldose everything in it’s path. But this project is restoring some of the georgion. You can’t expect everything to be restored considering whats been built and also you have to take into consideration some of the buildings are beyond repair and it’s getting more depressing to look at this stage. Its not logical to save everything, there has to be some compromise, as the old will not match the design and layout of a modern shopping mall of this scale. Let’s be a little realistic.
Can I ask is there any postive changes since the new re submitted plan. The Entrance onto Patricks does look alot better than the first application. The shoppping mall layout is impressive and massive I have to say. Something I find hard to imagine Limerick city acutally having.
Every other city in Ireland has city centre shopping malls. And In fairness this one is by far more striking than the other’s.
@Tuborg wrote:
Cruse’s Hotel
There is nothing spectacular about that building for the love of god.
The Cannoks building was impressive. There is little arctectural merit in that building other than its wihite. There are no striking features or anything authenitc about it.
If crusie’s street was enhanced and turned into an all day market street with Cafes, hanging baskets and a few distinctive shops. I think Cruis’es street would work.
I think they need to focus on retailing on Williams streetBedford Row/O’Connells street/Henry street/Opera centrea areas
@dave123 wrote:
There is nothing spectacular about that building for the love of god.
The Cannoks building was impressive. There is little arctectural merit in that building other than its wihite. There are no striking features or anything authenitc about it.
No there was nothing authentic about a building that was a Limerick City landmark with 200 years of history behind it. We’re far better off with a legoland shopping street that has become obsolete after only 16 years!:rolleyes:
Do you ever get tired of talking shit?
Decision on Opera Centre is postponed (Limerick Leader)
A DECISION on the application for the €350m Opera Centre retail development in the city has now been postponed by two months.
An Bord Pleanala were due to come to a decision on the plans on Friday last, but have now set the date of April 9 next for a final decision of the revised plans.
Meanwhile, a three-day oral hearing on the expansion of the Crescent Shopping Centre will take place in County Hall from March 3.Its outcome will determine whether Marks & Spencer will open an outlet in the suburbs. Limerick City Council believes the final decision will be “crucial” for the development of the city centre, as the British chain have said they are hopeful of opening an outlet in the city centre also.
Until such time as a planning decision is made on both retail centres, a spokesperson for M&S said it couldn’t determin where the larger outlet will be located.
The Opera Centre debacle takes yet another comical twist!:rolleyes:
Mayor lashes out at An Bord Pleanala over Opera Centre delay
By Anne Sheridan
THE Mayor of Limerick John Gilligan has accused An Bord Pleanala of being “totally out of touch with reality” after it emerged that a decision on the €350m Opera Centre will not be made for at least another four months. Just last week the board had set April 9 as the decision date for the biggest retail development in the Mid-West, and one of the longest running in local history.
But they have now expressed “serious concerns” with the plans, and requested further revised drawings for 15 “historic” buildings along Rutland Street, Michael Street, Ellen Street and Patrick Street.
Mayor of Limerick John Gilligan said it amounts to “economic nonsense” that An Bord Pleanala are taking so long to come to a decision on the development, while investors are waiting to pump millions of euro into the city.
“I find it very disconcerting. The whole legislation has to change. Limerick City Council has to make a decision on a development within eight weeks, and An Bord Pleanala can sit on it for six, eight or twelve months. I think they’re totally out of touch with reality and I’ve just lost faith in them,” said the Mayor.
Limerick City Council is expected to lose in the region of €1million in rates over the next three years while dozens of retail units are left vacant.
But the developers have said once the centre is fully operational – which could be three years away if planning is granted – the losses in rates will be recouped in one year.
A spokesperson for An Bord Pleanala confirmed to the Limerick Leader that it now appears that a decision may not be made until June or July.
A further revision of the plans must be submitted by May 4, and if they are not submitted by that date the Bord can dismiss the appeal or determine an outcome without further notice.
I think its a shocking indictment of the shoddy standards in the planning office at City Hall that the board are now looking for more detailed plans. The city planners of course were only too happy to allow this development go through unaltered, with barely any consideration given to the irreparable damage that would be inflicted upon historic building stock!:rolleyes:
I wouldn’t exactly have much sympathy for the loss of rates that the council are suffering, I’d be far more concerned about the battering the city centre’s image is taking as a result of the vast swathe of neglected, boarded up buildings!
Of course if the council had their priorities right, they wouldn’t have allowed this ridiculous situation to develop where tenants were ordered to vacate their premises years before any development took place!:mad:
@Tuborg wrote:
The Opera Centre debacle takes yet another comical twist!:rolleyes:
I think its a shocking indictment of the shoddy standards in the planning office at City Hall that the board are now looking for more detailed plans. The city planners of course were only too happy to allow this development go through unaltered, with barely any consideration given to the irreparable damage that would be inflicted upon historic building stock!:rolleyes:
I wouldn’t exactly have much sympathy for the loss of rates that the council are suffering, I’d be far more concerned about the battering the city centre’s image is taking as a result of the vast swathe of neglected, boarded up buildings!
Of course if the council had their priorities right, they wouldn’t have allowed this ridiculous situation to develop where tenants were ordered to vacate their premises years before any development took place!:mad:
My sentiments exactly. Madness to dispose/vacate of all the buildings on the premise of ‘something on paper’ ( read previous post) .Greedy people; now all business will/are suffering (including A.Q.) dare I even mention those on Rutland St, Patrick St, Ellen St etc Really, is this a joke,? ABP are playing a game! Is there anyone out there with an answer /brains to accommodate all the needs? I don’t think so, and this forum is now just a ‘lip service’ for those who just wish to nose around (including most of all the insiders).
Can we win. Retain.Regain = don’t think so.
Douglas Wallace Architects goes into liquidation
That’s not helpful . . . . 🙁
@CologneMike wrote:
Douglas Wallace Architects goes into liquidation
That’s not helpful . . . . 🙁
I think this project is cursed, its just destined never to happen!
Who’s going to take care of the inevitable design tweaks that the ABP report is going to order?
Anyway, heres another line on the Opera Centre. I suppose we shouldn’t really be surprised!:rolleyes:
Anglo owns 50% stake in stalled Limerick scheme (Sunday Business Post)
By Richard Curran
Anglo Irish Bank has emerged as a 50 per cent shareholder in a stalled €350million shopping centre development in Limerick city centre. Anglo acquired the stake in Regeneration Developments, the company behind the proposed Opera Centre in Limerick.
Accounts recently filed for the company show that, at the end of 2007, it had bank borrowings of €81million,payable within one year.
The loans were given by Bank of Ireland, and Anglo was not a banker to the project.
Anglo declined to say how much it paid for the stake. The three property developers behind the project, who are also clients of Anglo, are David Courtney, Jerry O’Reilly and Terry Sweeney.
Accounts for Regeneration Developments show the company’s borrowings were secured on properties on the site, options on further properties and personal guarantees from the three, totalling €50 million.
The company accounts valued the site and development for the Limerick centre at €89 million at the end of 2007. It had further investments valued at €19.6 million, but creditors falling due within one year totalling €109million.
The auditors did not qualify the accounts but drew attention to the carrying value of the company’s investments, saying the economic outlook and property downturn ‘‘creates an uncertainty about the appropriateness of the carrying value of the investment and stock’’.
Even valuing total assets at €106 million, the directors said that the company had net current liabilities of €19.6 million and ‘‘limited income’’ at the end of December 2007. Anglo Irish acquired its stake in the venture on December 21, 2007.
Industry sources said that the now nationalised bank acquired its share with a view to selling it on to private clients, but that never happened.
The project, which would have been the biggest shopping development in the mid-west, was granted planning permission last September, but is awaiting the outcome of a Bord Pleanála decision. It had the full backing of Limerick City Council but, in the current environment, it seems highly unlikely the project will go ahead.
Courtney, Sweeney and O’Reilly bought the venture from a group of developers in February 2007 and sold half of it to Anglo at the end of that year. None of the directors could be contacted for comment, and Anglo Irish declined to answer any queries other than to confirm its 50 per cent shareholding.
Well its the people of Limericks fault, for leaving it in the balance. The second reapplication was the second chance. It was improved drastically. Your not going to get a colluseam. But I know you all have high standards. But you have to remember Limerick needs a central shopping hub. Right now its just leff the way it is. I dont know why kind of a shopping mall that would retain every single old building that is just not realistic. Ive said this before and now I’m saying it again.
May you all learn.
If you werent happy with the design, I didnt see any of you put up your money to improve this run down part of town.
Developers say Opera Centre will go ahead (Limerick Leader)
By Anne Sheridan
THE developers behind the €350m Opera Centre have said the fact that Anglo Irish Bank has a 50 per cent share in the project is “irrelevant” as to whether it goes ahead.
A spokesperson for the company added that claims that the project may not get off the ground due to the financial backing of the troubled, nationalised bank is a “red herring.”
It has emerged that Anglo Irish Bank acquired its stake in the venture on December 2007, with a view to selling it on to private clients, but that never happened.
The planning application is currently before An Bord Pleanala for a second time, and Regeneration Developments, the company behind the project, are hopeful of a positive outcome in June.
“Regeneration Developments want the project to go ahead and are continuing to work on it.
“They purchased the project from the original developers with a view to building it. It will be built if we get planning, get anchor tenants and other major tenants, and if a bank – it doesn’t have to be an Irish bank – is prepared to fund the commercial developments,” said a spokesperson for the company.
Minister for Defence, Willie O’Dea, said he was “quite perturbed” to learn of the bank’s stake in the retail development, which is expected to be “Limerick’s shopping mecca” pending planning permission.
“It’s certainly a problem. I’d prefer if they didn’t own the shares. It came as a complete surprise. I never knew they were so immersed in the property game, 😉 but I wouldn’t despair completely,” said Minister O’Dea.
He said the Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan is expected to set up an interim National Assets Management Agency, prior to receiving full legislation, and they may become involved with the development in Limerick. “They will certainly try to make that workable. So there is light at the end of the tunnel,” he added.
Minister O’Dea added that he hopes that project will get the go-ahead in the coming months. “It’s a fabulous project and the place looks terrible at the moment. Dereliction is creeping in.”
If the plans receive permission, the Mid-West’s largest retail centre is expected to create 275 jobs during the construction phase and another 800 full and part time jobs will be created once the centre is open and trading.
A decision on the revised plans is expected next month, after Regeneration Developments submitted revised drawings for the project two weeks ago.
An exact decision date has not been confirmed by An Bord Pleanala, but those involved in the project expect that it will be made in the summer months.
@dave123 wrote:
Well its the people of Limericks fault, for leaving it in the balance. The second reapplication was the second chance. It was improved drastically. Your not going to get a colluseam. But I know you all have high standards. But you have to remember Limerick needs a central shopping hub. Right now its just leff the way it is. I dont know why kind of a shopping mall that would retain every single old building that is just not realistic. Ive said this before and now I’m saying it again.
May you all learn.
If you werent happy with the design, I didnt see any of you put up your money to improve this run down part of town.
You’re talking absolute nonsense as per usual!
The “people of Limerick” who had the intelligence to see beyond a couple of glossy CGI’s:rolleyes:, to speak out against the substandard design and lodge an appeal, should be applauded for actually caring about their city. Its thanks to them that we’ve avoided another enormous wound being inflicted upon the city centre!
@CologneMike wrote:
Developers say Opera Centre will go ahead (Limerick Leader)
A decision on the revised plans is expected next month, after Regeneration Developments submitted revised drawings for the project two weeks ago.
Id love to know what these “revised drawings” contain! Realistically though, this project needs a pretty comprehensive redesign, theres simply too many shortcomings in the current proposal!
@Tuborg wrote:
Id love to know what these “revised drawings” contain! Realistically though, this project needs a pretty comprehensive redesign, theres simply too many shortcomings in the current proposal!
Personally I would expect the “same conditions†to be re-applied as in the first approval and similar protective conditions for the Quin building and the former Town Hall.
The Bank Place in layout is nothing but a throw back to the days where the city showed it’s arse to the river.
The entrance / exit for deliveries must be moved to Michael Street (i.e. Former Work Space Building).
Maybe they could instead move the entrance / exit for cars to the opposite side of Michael Street and access to the underground car park per tunnel.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
