The Irish attitude to development – what is holding us back?
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i am well aware that the tunnel doesn’t go all the way from heuston to connolly.
@asdasd wrote:
Thats not even half the point of the interconnector, alpha. It’s about integrating all lines into Dublin into an electrified commuter DART service. Go read the website I posted.
i did read it. i am simply saying that the tunnel should be put to use passenger wise asap otherwise it is going to waste.
i am well aware that the tunnel doesn’t go all the way from heuston to connolly.
Well you suggested that the tunnel should be used to run a service from Heuston to Connolly, no? I pointed out why this would not work. Could you explain how you think it should be used for passenger services given the problems I outlined?
The reason I went to such lengths to respond to you was because the existence of this tunnel (which cannot currently be put into useful service because of the situation at Connolly) is disengeniously being used as an argument against the interconnector by some politicians. The minute most people hear of its existance, they assume that it could be used to “connect” Heuston to Connolly. This is simply not the case.
yes because i have heard others mention it over the years too and i did agree with them. it is a very old tunnel and seems to be going to waste at the moment. that’s all.
Probably as good a place as any to put this, particularly in light of the previous comments about wealth (above).
Anyone just see Martin Cullen on PrimeTime? Perhaps you can help:
Did he say “We are an income rich country but not a wealth rich country” as an explanation for lack of investment in transport infrastructure, or am I imagining it? And more importantly, what did he mean? That we are each individually better off, but the country lacks the necessary money to invest in transport?In other words, our ‘low tax’ economy that the govt makes such a song and dance about is actually the reason why we have such a cruddy public transport network. They have shied away from taxing us in our pockets in order to curry favour, only then to realise the consequences of such a policy… Quite an admission, if I understood him correctly.
No matter what way I phrase it, he comes off sounding like a complete eejit. If I’m wrong I’d appreciate correction.
Thanks.His ‘weath’ remark seemed to refer to the current state of affairs regarding infrastructure – not that we don’t have the resources to handle it, but rather as things stand we are not an infrastructure-rich or infrastructure-‘weathy’ nation.
But yes, regardless, it came across as daft.
What was encouraging however is that the Interconnector does seem like a strong contender at this stage in the eyes of Govt.The topic could’ve done with an hour. John Henry spoke but once aside from a V/O at the start.
Poor old battered Barry Kenny had some good points about city centre capacity.see that woman that had moved to co. meath for a better quality of life and commuted into smithfield everyday. 2 hour commute each way. some quality! she should’ve bought an apartment in smithfield itself. not everbodys idea of a good place to bring up the kids i suppose
Yes I was thinking just the same thing – she said she was ‘forced’ to move out to Meath. Is she sure it was the price that ‘forced’ her outside the capital’s own county, or was it more to do with a front and back garden?
@ctesiphon wrote:
Did he say “We are an income rich country but not a wealth rich country” as an explanation for lack of investment in transport infrastructure, or am I imagining it? And more importantly, what did he mean?
He means that Ireland may have a high per capita income compared to other counties but that because that income has risen only in recent years, we don’t have great infrastructural wealth built up over years of investment. OECD comparisons that have shown ireland to be rich in income terms don’t count the fact that money has only started flowing recently.
He means that Ireland may have a high per capita income compared to other counties but that because that income has risen only in recent years, we don’t have great infrastructural wealth built up over years of investment. OECD comparisons that have shown ireland to be rich in income terms don’t count the fact that money has only started flowing recently.
More than that: it is also an issue of how capital and wages are distributed in the country and how private wealth is also built up over time.
I explained most of this on page 1 of this thread but “ctesiphon” wont be told
https://archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=40077&postcount=9
As an addition to what I said there I noticed today, in the Irish Times business supplement on Germany, that Ireland’s average wages are 15K behind the German wages; even though our GDP per capital is about 15K greater than theirs. We tax wages more than capital – in fear that it will flee – and thus we are realistically income poorer than germany with less potential tax potential and practically no potential to increase taxes on the middle classes who have very little disposable income as is – with house and rent prices, creche care and rip off Ireland prices. In the long term I would prefer to be in Germany’s position.
The thing is that we are in the odd position that it suits the proponents of all ideologies to suggest that we’re richer than we are. The left want us to feel guilty about being rich so they can justify funnelling income into the pcckets of their pals – the unionised public sector – while the right want us to think that things are great as a result of their policies and that we should support them continuing to enrich their particular pals – for example the vitners or the construction industry. Neither really care about the general welfare of the country or are keen to face the fact that we are not really wealthy (despite highish income) but as I get older I find I have less and less tolerance for the snootily morally superior attitude of the Irish left having read of spouses of labour politicians pocketing 300-400K a year from the public purse for treating wealthy 70 year old medical card holders in Foxrock. FF are a shower of evil ignorant pr*cks but the fact that they seem to find it difficult to keep a straight face while trying to express similar levels of hypocritical false indignation about this or that is strangely redeeming. I still can’t make myself vote for them, ‘though.
@asdasd wrote:
I explained most of this on page 1 of this thread but “ctesiphon” wont be told
Finally! Thank you asdasd. Since signing up, anyone addressing me on this forum has called me ctesiphon, or Ctesiphon- not right, obviously 🙁 , but we persevere. And then you come along and put quotation marks around it, and all is right with the world.
Yes, it is an alias. But then again, I presume asdasd is one too. Which begs the question, why are quotation marks not necessary around yours? Or perhaps your christener/s really were more avant-garde than mine?
Or could it be that you’re trying to imply that I’m ‘hiding’ for a reason?Anyway, to get to your point. You will have noticed that I began by saying I thought this thread was the place to ask my question, chiefly because it already contained posts such as your original one. So yes, I had already read it, but thanks for the refresher link. Now it didn’t exactly clarify everything for me, but other posts filled in many of the blanks. GNP, GDP etc. have never really been my forte, but I thought there was sufficient uncertainty in my mind following Martin Cullen’s comments to ask for more detail. Luckily this was forthcoming from some contributors, and the variations in their responses indicate to me that the question was anything but answered previously. Perhaps I was naive to ask it, but it was in the hope of equipping myself sufficiently to assess Cullen’s utterances. (You’re right, he probably doesn’t deserve it, but I like to be fair to those whose announcements I’m going to question.)
The difference between the other contributors’ posts and yours was that they seemed by-and-large to do it with good grace, something that was notably absent from your text. If I exasperate you with my infantile questionings, go and have a cup of tea and keep your powder dry for those that might actually deserve your patronising ire. “Wont [sic] be told”? Won’t bother asking you in future, you mean.
Regards,
ctesiphon.Thanks to all others for your inputs with good grace.
ctesiphon
Dude, the quotes were a mistake. not sure why I put them there ( but read the paranthesis later on why I had to copy and paste).
Nothing meant by it. I did miss that you mentioned my previous post and I thought you had brought up the subject without reference to my previous post. nevertheless you probably need to take a chill pill not me 🙂
(As an aside here your name is hard work for a forum. It lends to being copied and pasted, since nobody would have a clue to it’s actual spelling without looking at it – and copy and paste is easier; and nor can it be shortened easily. Someone called FooBar, to pick a name, can be shortened to FB, but it is hard to know what to do with you. )
Yup, you certainly got the sharp end of something there- apologies for the inappropriate tone. Antiques Roadshow must have had my blood pressure up.
Incidentally, it’s interesting you mention ease of typing, as your name has often struck me as the easiest on this forum to type. A topic close to your heart, it seems. 😉@asdasd wrote:
it is hard to know what to do with you.
A spell in the army?
Anyway, back to business…
Here is list, for discussion, on some of what I think is holding us back.
Middle Class conservatism i.e. the opposition to new marina’s etc. Often opposed to high rise development in their area.
Working Class conservatism. Of the type that opposed the spire, feeling that the money should always be spent on the poor. Opposed to high rise, or high density, in all cases ( maybe a Ballymun hangover)
Incompetent and naive Politicos. The lack of expertise at Cabinet level can be amazing. Coming around to understand fixed price contracts just recently, huh?
Corrupt politicos: nuff said
Corrupt contractors: Didn’t mention that most of your private sector contracts are fixed price, no? Dawdle a bit on the Lu… some projects, did we?
Stupid Politicos: Mary whatsherface, the crayons, and the non-joined up luas.
Environmentalists etc: Useful when a hotel is being built close to Trim Castle, less useful when a snail gets in the way of the motorway.
Cynicism: The Port Tunnel design which rejected the increase in height to accomodate the silly Super Tankers was a good decision, as the alternative would have raised the cost enormously. However every Taxi Driver is convinced that the Tunnel is thus a disaster before it opens. We are cynical about everything prior to completion – the DART, Luas, Spire, Port Tunnel, and more.
Timidity: Politicans and designers get less flack when they are timid. The spire caused more flack that any of the developments in the Grand Canal, and IFSC, as they are so bland as to benot noticed. Related to general cynicism.
Lack Of Knowledge. Some people champion the “metro” for Dublin – but which proposal, and to where? What about the Interconnector?
I’ll prob. think of more later.
@asdasd wrote:
Lack Of Knowledge. Some people champion the “metro” for Dublin – but which proposal, and to where? What about the Interconnector?
This seems to patronisingly deride all people who favour the construction of a metro in Dublin but who cannot offer moderately detailed suggestions on its location and so on. I would argue that this is the job of a metro developer, geologist, and urban planner. You do not need to be any of these to know that Dublin could benefit from an underground – all you need to be is a commuter with a brain. It is as simple as that.
As one who ‘champions’ the metro but who cannot offer any concrete proposals on where it should be positioned, I will graciously bow my head to those who have the skills to do such things. Of course, I could say build a line to Tallaght because it has a very large population, but then this might not be possible as the geology might make it extremely difficult or expensive. In short, very few of us have enough knowledge to know exactly where to put a metro under Dublin, but we can have experientially based opinions without being accused of suffering from a lack of knowledge.
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