The car as spacehog

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    • #707895
      redabbeyredux
      Participant

      I’m preparing a lecture on sustainable transport, and I think I remember coming across a brilliant series of images somewhere on this site. It showed vehicle passengers on a road, with the buses and cars removed. Any pointers where I might find this? Thanks in advance!

    • #756788
      Anonymous
      Participant

      It’s on platform11 go into the user philip and go back through his posts

    • #756789
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Or go to the thread on ‘Small Monumental Buildings’. Garethace’s post (Number 41 of the thread) has three links to images, which I think are the ones you are referring to.

      https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=34363#post34363

    • #756790
      redabbeyredux
      Participant

      That’s perfect, thanks Thomond Park and Phil.

    • #756791
      Lotts
      Participant

      Good images! Thanks for the link phil – It’s very difficult to find anything on that Platform 11 site. Also it seems to be a closed shop anyway.

    • #756792
      Anonymous
      Participant

      You have to register with a valid e-mail and password is sent out, there were problems with anonomous posts, I note from earlier threads here that anonomous posts were stopped a long time ago.

    • #756793
      Lotts
      Participant

      @Thomond Park wrote:

      You have to register with a valid e-mail and password is sent out, there were problems with anonomous posts, I note from earlier threads here that anonomous posts were stopped a long time ago.

      Should still be able to access posted info without registration though…? A “Register to post” policy is debatable (but maybe ok), but register to read….? I wonder was there a problem with anonomous reading :rolleyes:

    • #756794
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Lotts wrote:

      Should still be able to access posted info without registration though…? A “Register to post” policy is debatable (but maybe ok), but register to read….? I wonder was there a problem with anonomous reading :rolleyes:

      I agree that is the ideal situation,

      but for whatever reason it was decided that was the best way for the group to go, its a good website with plenty of heated disscussion

    • #756795
      Lotts
      Participant

      @Thomond Park wrote:

      its a good website

      I’ll certaintly grant you that. It’s a good campain too by all accounts.

    • #756796
      hutton
      Participant

      @Lotts wrote:

      I’ll certaintly grant you that. It’s a good campain too by all accounts.

      Wish I could agree, but they lost all credibitilty in my book when they came out with the following below – BTW – See nra.ie for details on the Limerick – Tuam motorway that is being planned. What cost while a railway already there gets no govt funding? Feck that and feck P11 for actually lobbying against people in the west getting use out of an existing rail corridor

      Group opposed to Sligo rail network
      Chris AshmoreTue, © The Irish Times
      Apr 06, 04

      The national rail transport pressure group, Platform 11, is opposing the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) linking Sligo with Galway and Limerick.

      The group maintains that the estimated €300 million it would cost to reopen and upgrade the link along a mostly disused line could be better spent on other rail projects, such as the Cork-Midleton, Dublin-Navan and Athlone-Mullingar lines.

      The group’s spokesman, Mr Derek Wheeler, said €300 million would go a long way towards securing the future of existing regional rail routes such as the Limerick-Waterford line.

      Mr Wheeler said that Dublin remained the only capital city in the EU still without a rail link of any kind to its airport.

      Platform 11, he added, did not believe that the WRC would deliver value for money to Irish taxpayers.

      “Rail transport in the west of Ireland would benefit more from increasing the frequency of current services into the region, which would, by default, also create viable commuter services in the west and midlands.”

      He said there was no major population centre north of Tuam which was not currently served by rail.

      Regarding road-traffic congestion, which may justify a WRC rail commuter service, he maintained that this currently exists only between Tuam and Galway city.

      However, a spokesman for the West on Track campaign expressed surprise at the Platform 11 position.

      He pointed out that the campaign to reopen the route was supported by three regional authorities and local-development and tourism groups.

      © The Irish Times

    • #756797
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hutton,

      The Western Motorway will never happen there is no justification for it whatsoever and even the NRA only have plans for two lane roads north of Tuam. It was a soundbite by an inexperienced cheerleader addressing the Western Chamber of Commerce. The Western Rail corridor North of Tuam is a joke there are no figures to justify the project on economic grounds and the McCann report was very clear on why it would not be viable.

      The economics are simple the WRC would cost an absolute minimum of 300m and carry 800,000 PAX (passengers per annum) 0r 375 euro per passenger journey
      The Luas cost 800m and will have carried 20m in its first year or 40 euro per passenger journey

      Now how can anyone support the WRC on that basis even forgetting about the inevitable operating losses and future maintenance loses?

    • #756798
      jimg
      Participant

      Yes, I too initially found the Platform 11 position on the WRC perplexing but after seeing their reasoning, their position is the correct one. In the nineteenth century, winding, slow, infrequent rural rail services could still be justified given that mechanised road vehicles had yet to be invented and that freight was carried on canals. Modern rail is a different animal. Unless rail can compete (in terms of frequency, speed, comfort and price) with roads (whether using public or private transport), it’s going to lose money hand over fist. The bus service between Sligo to Galway would be faster, cheaper and many times more frequent than the train service the WOT are campaigning for. Modern rail is about carrying passengers to where they want to go not spending half a billion on a disneyesque fun ride through the wilds of Galway and Mayo.

      Given the real pent up demand for rail in many other parts of the country and the condition of some of the heavily used existing lines, stock and stations, it would be ridiculous to spend half a billion on the WRC.

      By the way, to disclose my interest in this discussion, I eventually joined platform 11.

    • #756799
      hutton
      Participant

      Lads point is, it is both a farce and indicative that a rail line that goes from Galway to Limerick isn’t in use already. I for one reject the crapology that refuses to use lines already present where there is clear demand; 3 examples – Navan – Dublin, Heuston – Connolly, Galway – Limerick. All of these are already present, yet not used for passenger traffic; each one parallels over-used road coridors/ traffic pressure points – N3, M50 Westlink, N18.
      4 : 1 spending ratio in terms of road building projects (for which the traveller will have to pay an additional tolls) to public transport smacks of a poverty of vision and is likely to be regretted. P11 should not have butted in unless they had something positive to contribute.
      Good luck to the West on Track campaign – at least theyve a bit of imagination and some tenacity.

    • #756800
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Why platform11 are a refreshing change is that it is not an ideologically driven organisation like West on Track who are a one issue campaign to have a stretch of light tramway re-opened between Colooney and Athenry, WoT are on record that this section must open first. WoT have publicly stated that they have no interest whatsoever in campaigning for commuter services around Galway, Limerick or Sligo, they simply want 300m plus spent on a line that will have 3 trains a day travelling between Sligo and Limerick.

      Platform 11 in contrast are the National rail users lobby who represent commuters and inter-city passengers, initially platform11 did campaign for the WRC but when research was carried out Platform11 withdrew their support.

      The Key rail projects being discussed on P11 are:

      The Dublin rail plan as conceived by Iarnrod Eireann
      Dublin (Loopline) Hansfield, Pace, Dunshaughlin, Navan
      Athenry-Oranmore-New Galway Eastern Suburban stations- Galway
      Ennis-Sixmilebridge-Limerick
      Sixmilebridge-Shannon
      Limerick-Galvone Raheen- Patrickswell
      Clonmel-Dublin
      A serious look at the Southside of Cork
      Midleton Youghal
      Ballymote-Collooney-Sligo
      Luas from Stephens Green to Ballymun
      Extended park n ride facilities
      Expanded frequencies off peak on Drogheda, Kildare & Maynooth lines

      All of which cost money and the WRC would have taken money out of the pot, I will be personally making submissions on the Cork Northern Ring motorway when it goes to the Bord

      I am a paid up member of Platform11

    • #756801
      jimg
      Participant

      Hutton, Platform 11, is firmly behind linking Navan to Dublin, linking Galway to Limerick using the Athenry-Ennis alignment and were the first group to highlight the existence of the Phoenix Park tunnel and actively campaigned for its use for passenger services. So it seems you might have more in common with Platform 11 than you think.

      Note that of the three routes you mention, only one constitutes a functioning passenger rail line – the Islandbridge to Connolly link. Neither of the other two alignment are suitable to run passenger trains in their current state. The problem with the Islandbridge to Connolly link is that Connolly is already completely maxed out so you cannot run a new train into Connolly without taking out a DART, Drogheda/Dundalk commuter train or an Enterprise. I believe that it is intended to use this route for some Kildare suburban trains in the near future but they will terminate in Spensor Dock and not in Connolly. Also this link goes from Islandbridge NOT Heuston, so if you wanted to run trains from Heuston, they’d have to go west past Islandbridge and then reverse back into the Park tunnel.

    • #756802
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Very well put Jim,

      I would almost say that making asumptions based on a quick look at maps is almost as dangerous as drawing lines on maps.

    • #756803
      JPD
      Participant

      But isn’t Spensor Dock almost as far away from the City Centre as Heuston is now?

    • #756804
      jimg
      Participant

      Yeah, Spensor Dock is quite a distance from the centre so it’s not a panacea by any means. It wont suit everyone to go there but if you’re aiming for east of the city centre or the IFSC, it’d be useful alternative to getting the Luas from Heuston.

    • #756805
      JPD
      Participant

      Theres always something missing in Irish transport

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