The Bertie bowl revisited
September 10, 2002 at 6:37 pm #705686
Well the Bertie Bowl is not to be built……..seemingly we have no funds in the kitty……….We were rolling in dosh last year……
Hospitals are more important….aka looking after those who have lived an unhealthy lifestyle, as in smoking, over eating and over drinking….and have reaped the just rewards of their unhealthy lifestyle in their latter days.
Why I ever voted for those c**nts….aka FF……and the taggers on PD’s…….
So the Scotland /Ireland Euro 2008 soccer bid is out the winddow….our country has lost out again and have let other people down…..
What a backward little shit hole.
Let’s open up Croker then …….the selfish GAA C**nts ………..pardon the expletives by the way….I doubt very much if they will open it up…even though the general public has paid for its redevelopment….and that includes Soccer and Rugby fans too.
September 10, 2002 at 7:41 pm #720792
Its a total cop-out, stadiums aren’t profit-making so there’s no way the private sector will get involved. The whole Croke Park thing is a red herring since the FAI and IRFU have more sense than to become tenants of that crowd. Well at least we have Lansdowne road with its 20,000 capacity for the next WC qualifiers, wonder what kind of an atmosphere there’ll be with no fans behind either goal? I have to say I’m rapidly losing patience with this country.
September 10, 2002 at 7:59 pm #720793
Blain, I’ve edited your post for libel.
September 10, 2002 at 8:59 pm #720794
Yeah I thought you might do that, couldn’t help myself I’m afraid. I think its fair to say I’m not Mary Harneys number 1 fan.
September 10, 2002 at 10:30 pm #720795
yeah i’m pretty pissed off with this bullshit too… where do we go from here, we’re looking at playing football & rugby in bloody landsdowne for at least another 10 years assuming it doesn’t fall down first.
Obviously the private sector is not going to bother its arse coming to our rescue … unless if there are a few more people willing to donate like J.P did and and i doubt that very much
There will probably never be a time when some gobshite can’t argue that the health service or education should take precedence so i have to conclude that we will probably never have a national stadium, save one falling off the moon and landing conveniently in abbotstown
bye bye euro 2008.
p.s where the hell is the bloody spike??
September 11, 2002 at 9:57 am #720796
Remember the proposal a few years ago…. aka The Sonas Centre which involved the building of a 65,000 seater stadium, hotels and a casino…….the casino being it’s single downfall……it was refused by An Bord Pleanala, Politicians, Castleknock Mercedes Driving Residents and all …..not forgetting the religious brigade, seemingly the casino would corrupt us pure, clean living, Catholic Irish folk……..hee hee, what a joke………and what ignorant pricks in hindsight. Bring back the Sonas Centre aka private developers….if they are still willing.
Progressive Democrats …..morelike Regressive Democrats……..but judging by Mary Harney’s waistline …..she was probably crap at sport in school and was never in any way involved in any sports ……very true ……it is all psychology.
Sport = a healthy lifestyle.
I am very glad to see that people are upset……it is the whole of the country and people of Ireland that will lose out….I bet the National Conference Centre will not be built either…..another major loss for the city of Dublin and Ireland.
It is understood that you have to spend money… aka invest ……to make money…..
Irelands profile on the European stage is greatly damaged …..all we need now is another ‘NO’ in the Nice Referendum……..We will then be truely classed as the thick ignorant begging bowl Irish….no better than our Unionist ‘No’ brigade counterparts…..stubborn and foolish…..here comes the good bad old days again. The ghost of Dev will forever linger on…….
It is gas the way the opposition are now saying that it is an embarrssment for the government (and it is too) that the National Stadium will not go ahead now ….but they were the ones who whole heartly objected to it in the first place…..and used the ‘hospital waiting list ‘slant in the last general election.
September 11, 2002 at 10:34 am #720797Luke GardnierParticipant
Visit http://www.scotsman.com and read opinion on Euro 2008 joint bid. Certainly makes interesting reading from a Scottish point of view . Boy they must be so sorry that they did not team up with their Welsh neighbours for this one. I bet heads will roll in Scotland over this one and our “Carry on Gang” will hang on to theirs as is usual here.
SPORT > HOT TOPICS > EURO 2008 BID.
September 11, 2002 at 1:36 pm #720798urbanistoParticipant
What a bizarre tale this is turning out to be. As the Irish Time is PAYG now I have to rely on snippits but its seems to me to be a total fiasco! Personally I think that the government should resing over this…not because of the Stadium itself – but because it is the most stark example of the lies FF (and PDs) put about before the election, ie that they were proven competent managers of the states finances. I think the point is entirely valid…last year Jim McDaid was forever telling us how affordable this project was in our Brave New Tiger country. Now, its is unrealisitic. What a balls up!
I hope Bertie is cringing today as he reads the Scotsman!
September 11, 2002 at 3:27 pm #720799kefuParticipant
How much money has already been wasted on this thing? How much did the pool out there cost to build and what purpose does it now serve? How much will the FAI be able to sue the government for – Eircom Park could have been built by now and at a fraction of the price? The worst thing about this fiasco is that a fortune has already been spent and once again we have absolutely nothing to show for it.
At least the Spike will be built, the foundations are already in place and it can only be a matter of a couple of months now.
September 11, 2002 at 3:42 pm #720800
There’s no need to bring the swimming pool into it, that was needed to stage the Special Olympics and after that it’ll stage the European short-course championships, so its already proving its worth. Even apart from that its a very valuable training centre for our swimmers who at last now have two 50m pools to use (Limerick and Abbotstown). The more world-class facilities we have the better.
September 11, 2002 at 5:00 pm #720801
The GAA decide to keep their Cathedral of Dreams while the Scottish FA endure this Irish nightmare and the rest of us dream on but unlike the Scots are not surprised nor shocked we just wonder how the canny Scots swallowed it from the start ?
September 11, 2002 at 5:07 pm #720802
I think the centralised concept was a bad idea – we would still have the situation that soccer (where the ball need to flow freely) is being played on a rugby (ploughed up) pitch (a don’t say FA Cup at Millenium Stadium – it takes place well after the end of the rugby season) what we need is a redeveloped Lansdowne and an eircom park. Give each entity an stadium that it can be proud of. Only at Ireland V England could a rugby international fill an 80,000 capacity stadium (and a lot of them would be the old enemy brigade) imagine Ireland V Italy – the place would look deserted.
eicom park only failed because of government interference – its timing was good, at height of Celtic Tiger (RIP) and it had the right sort of capacity for the Irish Soccer Team. It was also a home the FAI and Irish soccer fans could have been proud of.
As with everything in this country, everything gets kicked around by “Uncle Tom Cobbly and all” just waiting for inflation to kick in and nothing gets built.
2 suitably sized stadia (redeveloped lansdowne and eircom park) would probably be better for applications to host events of this nature – surely these could be fast tracked.
Back to the drawing board folks!
September 16, 2002 at 9:02 pm #720803
Interesting comments from Noel Smyth, the chairman of Dunlow Ewart:
He seems to be interested in building the stadium along with some other things under the right circumstances. I think the key to getting the private sector involved is the actual site at Abbotstown itself, it must be very valuable land so if a private consortium can get it say at a favourable price they could build the stadium along with high-density housing, an indoor arena etc and make money.
Actually, the more I think about it the better it sounds (in theory) – the country could potentially get a stadium, an arena and some other things as well as a lot of new high-density housing which can only be a good thing for hard-pressed house-hunters (provided its done right). I have a bad feeling though that the PDs will object to offloading the site for less than its worth, even though the potential gain to the country is fairly great. Anyway, I refuse to get excited about this because something always gets in the way of these things and ruins it.
September 17, 2002 at 3:31 pm #720804
So an indoor arena is a profit making proposition? I don’t believe it. Everyone says these things, but if it’s such a great development property why don’t we see lots of them being built?
September 17, 2002 at 3:48 pm #720805
But the Odyssey Arena in Belfeirste is a great success ………..it was developed by private developers………..It was shot down as usual when first proposed ………aka white elephant……they said the ice hockey rink would not be a success…….but it is…….it is a great success.
The trait of us Irish methinks…… can’t visualize anything.
September 17, 2002 at 8:12 pm #720806
An indoor arena in Dublin would corner the market for concerts and shows, the Point would become obsolete overnight (which is no bad thing) because of the greater capacity and facilities. This is apart from ice-hockey games, which may or may not catch on, its difficult to say. Most major British cities have large indoor arenas, so presumably it is a profitable venture or they wouldn’t have come about in the first place.
September 17, 2002 at 8:47 pm #720807emfParticipant
I’m not a big GAA supporter but I think that they are perfectly entitled to refuse a competing sport the use of a stadium they have built, mostly from their own funds.
They took a chance at a time when they were not sure where most of the money would come from. I remember headlines and back page commentary which said that the vision was beyond the resources and capabilities of a voluntary organisation and that they would surely bankrupt the GAA for generations to come!.
So they got a handout from the government. That’s hardly their fault! They asked and they received! It was up to the government to decide if they were entitled to it or not and also up to them to lay down any conditions relating to the payment at the time, i.e let in ‘foreign’ sports or no game!
The fault should lie fair and square at the governments door. They messed things up. Its up to them to sort it out. No use crying to the GAA now expecting favours.
Of course they will put the heavy hand on them now that things have started going awry.
Its the latest in a long line of calamities- (roads, railways, metro, luas, education, health, SSIA’s and not to mention broken election promises) and it won’t be the last.
Someone needs to ensure that the Coalition aren’t bailed out of this one.
I think that the problem lies in the fact that successive governments look on these schemes (metro, luas, various stadia) as a chance to embark on a ‘Grand Projet’ akin to Francois Mitterand. We saw this with the various transformations the Luas/Metro plans went through during their conception.
I say let those in the know get on with the planning and implementation of these projects and the government should get on with the day to day running of the country. Control should not be given to an individual, often with no relevant qualifications, who can reverse the decisions of expert consultants.
Maybe then the health care and education system would rise from their ruinous states when they get the focus they deserve from a government that is at the moment distracted with trying to sort out a few soccer games in 2008.
What proportion of government time has been dedicated to this over the past number of weeks I wonder?
Without interference the FAI & IRFU would have managed to build their own Stadium by now.
The Luas and metro would also probably be built.
On a final note I’m also fed up with people who are concerned about how all this will make us look in Europe. We should try to get things right for ourselves not for others.
I want to feel proud of our country and our capital city. I want to have top class transport and sports facilities. I want us to vote yes to the Nice treaty. I want to do this for ourselves (and in the case of the Nice treaty to give other countries the opportunity share the wealth of the EU)
I couldn’t care less that what we do or how we vote might make us look stupid. Enough with this inferiority complex which seems to concern so many of us (especially newspaper columnists)!
September 17, 2002 at 11:38 pm #720808traceParticipant
How many seats?
Without a brief it’s all b*******
September 18, 2002 at 4:12 pm #720809
Without a brief based on a business plan it’s all silly. Revenues, event and non-event; operating costs, financing costs…it must be driven by the tenants who will be left with the obligations. Easy enough to stand by and say what should happen, difficult if you have to sign the guarantees.
September 18, 2002 at 11:13 pm #720810
the gaa are hypocrits, american football anyone??? banning specific sports from a stadium (which would not have been able to proceed past the redevelopment of the cusack stand without the allocation of taxpayers money) is childish & immature.
It appears that even the gaa are beginning to cop on to the unsustainability of their position and is looking increasingly likely that they will allow other sports to be played in croke park, but will deliberately drag their heels past the december deadline and therefore severly damage the chances of our bid being successful.
They should grow up and bite the bullet now, as a national organisation it should have the national interest at heart, and i think that hosting Euro 2008 is in the national interest…
They do deserve credit for having the foresight to get up off their arses in the first place and begin the construction of their own stadium, but should also realise that without taxpayers money, the completion date for the stadium would have been at least another ten years down the road.
September 19, 2002 at 10:59 am #720811Andrew DuffyParticipant
I always thought the hypocrisy of the GAA accepting payment to exhibit such a WASP-dominated sport as American “football” in Croke Park was laughable.
American football is certainly more “foreign” (read – “English”) than soccer, perhaps even more so than rugby. The GAA should by rights consider banning Gaelic football from Croke Park since it was created by combining aspects of Association football and rugby. Cuchulan played hurling, not football.
September 19, 2002 at 11:14 am #720812RSJParticipant
First time I’ve ever heard American “football” described as English. They do play rounders as well, but call it something else.
Anyone for cricket?
September 19, 2002 at 11:17 am #720813
…………and according to historical sources Cuchullainn was a Brit….his original name being Setanta…..which is non Gaelic……suggesting he was captured and brought to Ireland from Britain by the Gaels who carried out raids on old Blighty in those times…..as like the origins of St. Patrick.
St. Paddy and Setanta may have belonged to Celtic or Pictish tribes in Britain.
As I always say Irish history is full of contradictions………and when you throw in religion it is absolute bonkers…….the ongoing troubles in Ireland are partly based on these ongoing myths.
(I think baseball has it’s origins with cricket……aka stoolball…………aka rounders…originating in Medieval times in Britain..although many cultures have games involing a ball and bat………..as like ourselves with hurling ……which golf may have come from ……aka the Puck)
September 19, 2002 at 11:19 am #720814Andrew DuffyParticipant
That came out a bit confused – I meant that the GAA complain about foreign games, but they really mean English ones. Games like soccer and rugby have been played in Ireland for a long time, longer than Gaelic football in fact (but not hurling or handball), but American football is virtually never played here. Thus it is distinctly more foreign than soccer, and just as foreign as baseball or volleyball.
September 19, 2002 at 11:25 am #720815
I agree with you…….
…….and the GAA perpetrate those myths too……
We are all cut from the one cloth……..
Once the GAA smell the money they’ll open Croker up to one and all …even to the devil himself………but let’s hope it is not to late for Euro 2008……………..It is after all in the best interest for the whole of Ireland and the profile we have internationally.
September 19, 2002 at 1:37 pm #720816dmcgParticipant
american football may be more foreign than soccer or rugby but the perfectly valid reason the gaa have for not allowing them to play in croker is that they don’t want to promote sports that are competing for their players
– most recent examples graham geraghty and brendan devenney . Why should they help their competitors? They’re not hypocrites in my opinion. If they do let soccer and rugby in it will be because they either want/need the money or they bow to public/peer pressure as all politicians do be they heads of government or heads of the gaa.
The real villain in my view is bertie – not mary harney who is showing common sense both in a public finances kinda way but in a the-brief-is-all-wrong anyway kinda way – who wants a f**king 80,000 seater in the middle of nowhere which we need another dart/luas built for just to get to, costing oodles more unnecessary tax payers money!
Bemoaning the fact that the plug has been pulled is idiotic cos it was an arse plan anyway!
It would have been the original white elephant built on a big field near the meath border! A stadium in the middle of nowhere is never going to be remotely self-sustainable.
Any private developer would need a stadium in the city somewhere where economic spinoffs for the stadium and the area can happen allowing them possibility for a return.
Bertie gave the gaa 60 million the day before they voted to keep rule 42 in place – the 60 million removing any financial reason for having to remove the rule and allow other sports in. The greatest piece of bribery seen in Ireland ever and no brown envelopes in sight here, all in the open, the man is a genius and we are sheep with the wool over our eyes!
No soccer or rugby in croker of course meant that his ‘bertie bowl’ (a title which probably really appeals to his ego in private where we don’t know about) thus had a legitamcy and a ‘need’ to be built – for the irish sporting public’s sake of course!. Suited the gaa fine to take the money, why wouldn’t it? And I have no problem with giving the gaa public money to fund croker either cos they have a record of raising money unparalleled in this country and then doing something useful with it. They are entitled to their success – more people watched 4 dublin matches than the semi-finals, 3/4 playoff and final of the soccer world cup this summer! I personally am sick of togging out beside a ditch for my soccer team here in dublin.
Bertie has lead us all a merry dance, he whistled up the pipe dream and hasn’t delivered it in any sense. All the olympic village, velodrome, testing facilities crap that surrounded the stadium in behnischs masterplan were never going to be built, they were just in at the start to be pared back later with just bertie’s monument to his own professed love of irish sport remaining.
Personally I would favour a stadium for each of the three sports allowing them to have their own business plans unreliant on each other and giving each their own independent sources of income.
Croker in the north cith centre, landsdowne in the south and eircom park seemd good to me.
Anyone seen vitesse arnhems stadium in holland where they wheel the pitch in form outside the stadium allowing it to be used for concerts, exhibitions and the likes. A 40,000 odd seater built for approx. 100 million quid if I remember correctly would make a nice eircom park. And all this fuss will only get worse when the swiss come to town and people realise the bucket seating in landsdowne is now banned by uefa and we have only 28,000 in two full stands and two empty terraces watching.
I would also favour turning the axis of landsowne for a new stadium there too while we’re at it……but in my lifetime? I dunno……as long as we keep getting the rulers we deserve I doubt it!
September 19, 2002 at 1:58 pm #720817
I think the B…B….Bertie man had the idea of creating an Olympic village with the notion that Dublin aka the capital city of Ireland could host the Olympics one day in the future…..which everyone has failed to realize……(Gay Mitchel once mooted the idea way back when we were a lot poor and had no hopes then….. and everyone shot him down….)
To build Stadia in the city centre will require the gracious permission from the locals to host fixtures cause the noise and disruption causes them pain…….fair enough…..but someone should tell them they are living in a city (aka hustle and bustle) not the bog of allen (aka peace and quiet)…….
The GAA had to ask for permission from the locals to host the recent replays on a Saturday.
Abbotstown is out of the way……but anything can be hosted there when buit ….which was the idea…….. …..unless the cows and sheep object…………but I bet there will be still some locals too……..Housing estates are fast developing in close proximity……you’ll notice that ……but that’s if ye’ve ever been out there.
September 19, 2002 at 4:30 pm #720818brunelParticipant
Well it looks as if the IRFU don’t really know what to do now either… you’d think they’d be able to come up with a few ideas themselves but obviously not:
I don’t really like the way the GAA has been bashed above. Granted the ‘rule’ is incredibly stupid and should have been abolished a long time ago without the need for a vote, but they have done more for this country than any other sporting body and deserve to get every penny from the government.
One really has to wonder what the IRFU are doing now… they have sat back while the Scots, Welsh and English have proceeding to build fantastic stadiums and left Lansdowne crumble… for a long time they were very rich indeed but failed to act…
Croke Park will always be Irelands most utilised stadium and if it cannot be sustainable then there is little hope for any other proposal… remembering that we only have around 3 home rugby internationals, and even in 2003 (a busy year for the FAI) only 3 soccer internationals – two of which are against ALBANIA and GEORGIA !! How many people are going to get into a car and be stuck in traffic for hours out in Abbotstown for those games ?!?
Lots of problems i know, but for me the only solution is to get the government, local reps, and the IRFU/FAI at a table and sort out a way to turn Lansdowne through 90 degrees…
The number of matches played there will be the same as now, the capacity of a new stadium will be the same as the old (50,000 say) and the transport infrastructure is thereâ€¦ Give the residents a host of new amenities (say crÃ¨ches, new roads, decent parks etc etc) and everybody can be happyâ€¦
September 19, 2002 at 8:30 pm #720819
thats just the problem with inner city stadiums….the gaa are beholden to the residents and keeping them on-side has become quite a headache…
I would prefer to have the National Stadium somewhere within or around the canal’s but objections from every resident and their mothers in the vacinity would probably stop or severely delay any plan…
Abbotstown is no more out of the way than the proposed site for Eircom park which you seem to approve of dmcg … I don’t consider anywhere in dublin county to be “the middle of nowhere” + the extra land surrounding the site at least leaves us the option of proceeding with the campus should we discover a few dozen oil wells off the coast of donegal.
September 19, 2002 at 9:14 pm #720820alastairParticipant
I like tom humpheries (?) suggestion; the irish bottle company land is a pretty good site. no immediate local residents and a central location. Flog a bunch of the land at abbotstown, revamp landsdown, and stick a nice new 40,000 capacity stadium at irishtown.
September 20, 2002 at 11:38 am #720821dmcgParticipant
at least peter you seem to realise how likely it is that any irish government would ever build the rest of the ‘olympic facility’ originally proposed for abbotstown.
eircom park was at least sited within tallaght (a most neglected part of dublin city) would spread our cities 3 stadiums around nicely in a geographical sense and will be served by the luas. abbotstown meanwhile would need it’s own new luas line or similar, requiring at least one previously undiscovered oil field to be found, and is not a part of the city although the cows are being squeezed out by the ever creeping closer new housing estates in the area. Also wouldn’t it be a shame to lose John Tuomeys laboratories out there not to mention unnecessary in my view. What’s the cost of building them again somewhere else? I unashamedly favour stadiums in the city and feel that that’s the price to pay for residents who can walk to stephens green in the case of the two we have already. After driving past a tail-back which stretched from Abeeyleix almost to Kildare town at 10.30 on the night of the hurling final, it was the residents of abbeyleix I felt more sorry for, not those beside croke park. Stadiums and big matches cause disruption – shoving them to our cities fringes is not the way foward.
September 20, 2002 at 12:08 pm #720822SueParticipant
I’m really getting fed up of people slagging Bertie’s stammer. A real case of playing the man and not the ball. And is there no way to change the subject title of this thread, Paul? I don’t think it does this excellent site any favours to be mocking the taoiseach’s speech.
September 20, 2002 at 1:03 pm #720823
Ah common it’s only a bit of banter… ….and the Bertman would probably agree too…….with his pint of Bass in Fagan’s…………I mean he is our Premier…..as in head of the State………he does’nt have a stammer or stutter in a medical sense, but he does play the auld unfortunate ‘I don’t know’ Irish bit ……..it’s just the way he talks………………………aka Up the Dubs. We will be back for the Sam next year……….Croker is our home……………….only kidding
September 23, 2002 at 5:02 pm #720824
As has been previously stated the Odyssey Arena in Belfast is the only enclosed sporting facility in Ireland. The Waterfront Hall is truly a â€˜nationalâ€™/ international venue compared to the â€˜National exam hallâ€™ on Earslfort Terrace. We only have to look north for guidance and direction when it comes to the realisation of leisure and cultural centres. The big difference is that these projects up North have been funded with the help of substantial Lottery funding. Our Lottery was loudly proclaimed on its much heralded inception as funding for major sport facilities. All that has been funded is mickey mouse projects by the lobbying of local TDs ensuring that local parish pump groups got their bar extensions built on to every GAA and golf club from Malin Head to Mizen Head and no government interest in any grand national plan for Stadia or public leisure centres.
September 23, 2002 at 5:26 pm #720825
That’s very true what you say ……but however I would’nt use our ‘NO NO NO’ Northern brethern as role models …..
I mean it is all part of the Peace process to help reconstuct society there in ‘Norn Iron’…..Investment in leisure facilities is a key to help heal the rift up there between the communities……..We on the other hand are left to our own devices…..and of course we make a b*****ks of things but we don’t have the gentle nudge in the back as like what our brothers and sisters in Ulster have from the Brits the USA and Ourselves.
They also have a bigger pool of money to splash about from the Lotto funds becuse of the more substantial population of the whole of Britain….where as we only have a minute fraction in comparison.
Pity about the loss of our National Conference Centre………but look at Croke Park what we have……….you could fit 3 Windsor Parks in there. We are no longer are the poor bogger Free Staters……okay there are still one or two turnips about here.
How about Windsor park being used as an alternative venue to Landsdowne Road whilst they redevelop it………
Good on Armagh yesterday winning the All-Ireland…..it was a great victory for the underdog, the whole island and sport………however I did ‘nt see any of Trimble’s or Paisley’s gang there ……and they had the right opportunity to wear their Orange sashes too.
September 24, 2002 at 5:26 pm #720826
I’d be delighted to see Internationals played in Windsor Park and Thomond park whist Lansdowne is redeveloped as something akin to the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff. Don’t know what the soccer boys would do though? Dalyer anyone?
September 24, 2002 at 5:59 pm #720827
Apart from Windsor Park being an awful dump of a ground that makes Lansdowne Road look space-age, its situated right in the middle of a staunchly Unionist area i.e. the kind of area with union jacks flying from every available pole and kerbstones painted blue, white and red. The chances of an Irish team other than Northern ireland playing anything there in any degree of comfort and safety are slim to say the least.
September 25, 2002 at 10:33 am #720828PapworthParticipant
…but not as slim as an Irish National team playing on the sacred holy ground of ‘our national’ games… (keep or rather stay of our Irish grass)… Croke Park… National Irish Teams need not apply. All Ireland is as good as it gets for them thanks be to God ….as they really loose the run of themselves.
September 25, 2002 at 4:10 pm #720829
Sorry did I say Windsor park – I meant Ravenhill the home of Ulster rugby, not that scary place
September 27, 2002 at 12:40 pm #720830
So, is the Bertie Bowl well and truly Flood-ed now?
October 16, 2002 at 10:56 am #720831PapworthParticipant
Saw very serious well advanced plans on last nightâ€™s UTV news for a Northern Ireland type National Stadium. It will have a retractable roof and cater for 40,000. Its been strategically planned to locate in Newry so as to cater for a Southern audience (o lucky us !!) as well, with pop concerts, Rugby Internationals etc.
But the best part of the story is that half of the land on the proposed site belongs to the guardians of our National Games the GAA. It will also be supported by local business and the British Lottery so therefore will cater for all sports. So as its been planned up North like the Odyessey Arena / Intetactive Science Centre, Leisure Centres, Waterfront Hall, Dundonald Ice Rink etcâ€¦. it will certainly happen and on timeâ€¦â€¦â€¦.come back UEFA â€¦â€¦â€¦and visit Newry.
October 22, 2002 at 11:59 pm #720832Tom ScottParticipant
i read today in the irish times that there are several consortiums interested in a national stadium project. looks like a 40,000-50,000 seater. abbottstown looks like the site of choice but options are being looked at apparently.
shame about eircom park and i agree with idea of a redeveloped lansdowne. wishful thinking but the eircom park design would be cool if it could be used on the irishtown site. a 65 – 75,000 lansdowne rd is also a pipe dream but would be great to see.
seem to recall a phoenix park idea was also being looked into which would be perfect if the project could incorporate the rail link under the park. i guess we will have to wait and see…
October 23, 2002 at 12:50 pm #720833
Much interest has been expressed by the private sector for a national stadium, but whether this is real depends on how much stealth, non-cash, government support will be available. How the tender is framed will be equally important. No one seems to favor Abbotstown so there is hope for better solutions if the finances can be sorted. A big if.
October 23, 2002 at 1:10 pm #720834
If private investors are to part with their hard earned money….ahem!…. every possible location will be considered no doubt so as the best returns will be acheived. They will not build the stadium in an isolated field……..however if that location is to be an epi-centre or hub for sporting activity… aka Sports Campus Ireland, well then Abbotstown will be strongly considered.
Remember a city centre location may meet opposition from the super sensitive locals.
(I remember seeing on the news recently opposition to Croke Park’s activities from the locals and those that spoke out were not Dubs but had country accents……This is a city not the countryside)
To think that 23 private developers applied ……what enthusiasm…..maybe we could get a couple of stadia out of them as well as the redevelpment of Landsdowne Road and the National Conference Centre…..after all it’s how they built America.
October 23, 2002 at 3:36 pm #720835
Something will emerge from all of this but all too late for the bewildered Scots as UEFA will make there decision by Dec’ 7th. No doubt they already have put this issue to bed and and I don’t expect a shock announcement from UEFA as there is no possibility of contracts (never mind drawings) even been signed drawn up 5 weeks from now…it would still be only one likely Irish venue.
October 25, 2002 at 11:56 am #720836brunelParticipant
The article in today’s Times “October 25 2002 : City centre stadium is favoured in Dunloe submission” sounds really interesting… is there any chance that somebody could email this exile the article ?!? Would be greatly appreciated…
October 25, 2002 at 2:01 pm #720837
The Bertie Bowl will then be probably built……hurray, says I….we are not that backward then!
…….and we said YES to Nice too…….things are looking up ……..there is a dog…………I mean god.
October 25, 2002 at 5:32 pm #720838
Perhaps we should find another name for the stadium. Bertie wants it sure enough, but his tax payers won’t be layin cash on the table. How about Eircom Park? No, that’s been done before. Let’s put the thinking caps on. Nominations are hereby declared open.
October 25, 2002 at 6:23 pm #720839notjimParticipant
October 28, 2002 at 11:35 am #720840
According to teh Indo this morning JP McManus has rescinded his donation as its not a state stadium anymore and not a world class proposal.
October 28, 2002 at 3:23 pm #720841
It hasn’t been a world class process has it?
November 25, 2002 at 7:20 pm #720842Tom ScottParticipant
i see that 23 proposals for a stadium have been submitted to the govt. seems like abbottstown is the only site being considered but i guess we will have to wait and see.wonder what will be the result of all this and hopefully we will end up with a second world class stadium.
maybe the govt will see the light and float a metro competition to the private sector….wishful thinking!!!
November 26, 2002 at 10:45 am #720843
Went to the aquatic centre – aka. Lansowne Road on Saturday, the cries of shut the stadium roof were heard – nice thought!!!
November 26, 2002 at 10:53 am #720844
It has been claimed that it will cost over Euro100m to refurbish Lansdowne Road stadium to help Irelandâ€™s bid to host European soccer championships in 2008.
The Minister for Arts, Sport, and Tourism John O’Donoghue made the point during a Dail debate while talking about the level of interest that private companies have expressed in building a national stadium.
August 1, 2006 at 3:16 pm #720845
Now that Landsdowne Road has been green lit how does the forum feel that Berties Bowl would have compared to the new Landsdowne road?
August 1, 2006 at 3:20 pm #720846
like a canary yellow suit …
August 1, 2006 at 6:32 pm #720847mickeydocsParticipant
Landsdowne has public transport access, great pubs, good atmosphere.
50K seater stadium makes sense as Dublin already has an 80K plus stadium.
Bertie Bowl was doomed tbg.
August 1, 2006 at 7:57 pm #720848
Im disapointed. We could have done with a proper stadium in Dublin. I just hope the government will now press ahead and build a 30,000 seater stadium in Cork and Galway for soccer. With 4 stadia and one in the north maybe we could host the European Championships
August 1, 2006 at 8:38 pm #720849
We have a proper stadium in Dublin in Croke Park and a proper summer game in the form of Hurling to go with it when the City comes to life with hoardes from the regions descending and supporting thousands of jobs in the hospitiality industry.
Lets be honest about it everyone wants to see Barcelona as an away game as it is a fabulous City; who rushes off to buy tickets for Dortmund or Napoli?
The convenience of a boutique hotel and locals like Donneheys or Searsons cannot be replaced by the IBIS and the Red Cow and West in an industrial estate after the match.
August 1, 2006 at 8:50 pm #720850
Im disapointed. We could have done with a proper stadium in Dublin. I just hope the government will now press ahead and build a 30,000 seater stadium in Cork and Galway for soccer. With 4 stadia and one in the north maybe we could host the European Championships
maskhadov we are a small country. aside from an ego boost we could never afford to host a large scale sporting event. The stadiums that we would have to build to be idle for years following their completion.
We could and should try to host a large scale event with scotland at some stage (olypimcs , world cup, the list is endless. )
i think croke park a proper stadium.
August 2, 2006 at 12:19 am #720851
the situation has changed since other sports in Croke Park got the go ahead … no more than the landsdowne proposal is required in Dublin at this stage, I know that croker is at this stage temporary while landsdowne is being developed but i reckon the rule change will be extended (for corke park anyway)
to have even one 80,000 seater stadium in a country of this size is quite surprising.
August 2, 2006 at 1:20 am #720852notjimParticipant
this obsession with the european cup makes no sense to me; from a tourism point of view one off events only make sense if they have a branding role; what good will come of trying to brand ireland as a soccer destination, these people aren’t going to come back to see bohemians v’s whatever in dalymount.
as a disclaimer i should say that i find soccer really fucking boring because it doesn’t involve either dogs, horses or people running around an oval track.
August 2, 2006 at 6:53 pm #720853
We could host the Rugby World Cup with those 4 stadia & one in the north!
August 2, 2006 at 6:54 pm #720854
Co-Bid with Scotland would be really tasty
August 2, 2006 at 7:10 pm #720855
yes a co-bid for a large sporting occasion would be great. However with respect to the olympics or the world cup it would be some decades away , since both were just recently held in europe.
Also the GAA would have to be convinced to allow croke park to be redevelopped , for the olympics say .
But such thoughts are not impossible, and it would indeed be a great honour.
August 2, 2006 at 11:35 pm #720856
Croke park doesnt look 1/2 finished to be honest. The should move the railway track and complete the stadium.
August 2, 2006 at 11:51 pm #720857
no it is just right, the open side lets the sun in wonderfully and during concerts the setting sun provides a nice background . as a horseshoe it is fantastic, i think.
August 3, 2006 at 3:53 pm #720858TuborgParticipant
I tend to agree that croke park looks a bit unfinished, one side of hill16 slopes down drastically towards the hogan stand, its a pity really. It would look absolutely amazing if the bowl was completed, the capacity would be around 90,000 then i think, they could also maintain a standing terrace on the lower tier with the upper tiers reserved for seating, this is whats done in many german stadia such as the westfalenstadion in dortmund,the waldstadion in frankfurt and the allianz arena in munich, all with great success. Its unlikely that we’ll see the hill 16 end “completed” in the near future especially with the proximity of the railway line but also because the GAA have only just spent â‚¬20 million on the new terrace.
Whats the current situation regarding the croke park floodlights?, i know they got planning permission, i presume this has been challenged by the local residents?
Also does anyone else think the new landsdowne road has been ruined somewhat with that single tiered section, like croke park its going to look somewhat imbalanced!
August 3, 2006 at 4:05 pm #720859Spinal TapParticipant
It looks a bit OTT allright and the single tiered section looks unfinished ah la Croke Park. I am amazed at the proposed capacity of only 50,000 when The Milenium stadium in Cardiff holds 75,000 and has a retractable roof.Demand for rugby & soccer tickets is always high in sports mad (viewing) Ireland.
August 3, 2006 at 4:22 pm #720860
Yes but to spend €1bn on a single project would deprive the rest of the Country for the sake of possibly 2 rugby and 4 soccer internationals a year, if more money is to be spent spend it in Cork, Limerick and Galway. With Galway in particular having no stadium worthy of its population. GAA will always be happiest at home Croke Park is more than a stadium it is a very powerful symbol to a large group of people.
August 4, 2006 at 12:04 am #720861
I It would look absolutely amazing if the bowl was completed, the capacity would be around 90,000 then i think, they could also maintain a standing terrace on the lower tier with the upper tiers reserved for seating, this is whats done in many german stadia such as the westfalenstadion in dortmund,the waldstadion in frankfurt and the allianz arena in munich, all with great success.
Also does anyone else think the new landsdowne road has been ruined somewhat with that single tiered section, like croke park its going to look somewhat imbalanced!
Yes and Yes. They should move the railway line, complete Hill 16 properly and then put a seated tier above it. Once they have that done they can add a roof.
Down one end of landsdowne road is going to be incredibly quite. It should have a second tier by right.
August 14, 2006 at 1:37 pm #720862MrO50Participant
Should the Hill16 end be finished to raise the capacity to 90,000 at an extremely large cost to make the stadium look ‘more balanced’.
Is it not satisfactory to have a stadium with a finished capacity of 82,500. This is more than sufficient for this country, it’s a stadium not a white elephant.
To move the rail line would involve CPO of people’s back gardens on the adjoining roads by Iarnrod Eireann and govt, (to assist the expansion of the stadium to 90k?), and potential overshadowing of houses in the viscinity which I am sure will be very learned of the planning process post Lansdowne Road episode that is now looming.
Croker looks great and its big enough for Gaelic Games. There are very few stadiums larger in all of Europe for conventional field sports. Really to pay for such an expansion would require significant public expensiture which, in my opinion, would be better spent on upgrading Thomond Park and Semple Stadium. 😮
August 14, 2006 at 7:31 pm #720863
Totally agree it is the World’s greatest Horse Shoe shaped Stadium and all phases opened on time and at or close to budget
Well done the GAA
August 15, 2006 at 2:34 pm #720864
I was at the Dubs game on Saturday and whilst admiring the stadium thought that it has to be one the of best assets the country’s got in recent years. The stadium is so spacious and roomy too and the view of the pitch is excellent. Pity that the railway line intrudes at te Hill 16 end with the new Nally stand and flag poles that are plonked here looking kinda awkward. But Croker looks great overall and looks even better when there’a full house and the Hill and the Stands are packed to the rafters.
BTW, the largest attendance for a field sport at a ground in Europe this year was not in Germany during the World Cup finals, nor was it the Heineken Cup final at Cardiff, (despite that the jubillant Munster fans would have filled the stadium 3 time overs), nor was it English or Scottish FA Cup finals, but Croker of course, when the Dubs played Offaly for the Leinster title and the attendance was over 80,000. Not bad for a so called amateur sport either. It will be great when the Irish Soccer and Rugby teams play there next year.
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