Stephenson – poacher turned gamekeeper?

It dosn’t matter in the slightest what type of modern building fills this in, by definition a modern building on this scale will change the character of the area from Georgian to – well, something else.
Whether it is a sweeping glass clad structure or something clad in copper or polished granite, it matters not in the slightest if it is ‘sympathetic’ or not. If any modern building was to continue on this site, it should be the existing facade (which was designed not by Sam but by Arthur).
It relates to the street excellently, as do the materials used (excluding the horrendous ground floor)

Here comes the but.
I think the house facades should be rebuilt.
Why?
For one reason only, to restore the unity of the area, and not just Fitzwilliam St, but the whole Georgian character of the area.
I remember as clear as anything the first time I saw this building – it was the first time I walked around the Georgian city, an area completely alien to the rest of the generally shabby and incoherent Dublin.
I was bowled over by the manner in which no matter where you looked, there were Georgian houses lining the streets, from Merrion Street to Merrion Square, to Mount Street and then – the ESB.
And contrary to what someone mentioned earlier about the building acting as a good orientation point, I found it had the exact opposite – muddling – effect, it was like I had exited the historic area, the junction with Baggot St further confusing matters and the unity of the area was lost.
When you come up from the Green through Baggot St, past all of it’s Georgians, you arrive at the junction. Look left – more Georgians. Look right – aggregate concrete. The area is destroyed.
And the route from Merrion Square, also taking in the Mount St vista, through Fitzwilliam St to the magnificent Fitzwilliam Square and further on down to Leeson St is also wrecked – with the ESB plonked mid-way, disrupting the whole flow and ruining the continuity.

The basic point is that Dublin’s Georgians rely on each other for effect, to create the ‘massing cliff’ formation. And each street relies on it’s neighbours to unify the character of the entire area.
Rebuilding the facades (not interiors etc) restores this unity and character.
At this stage its nothing to do with history, harking back, the British or anything else.
It is about architecture, and the architecture of the area in my opinion would be greatly enhanced with the reconstruction of the 16 houses’ facades.
If this Geogian core had been built 5 years ago, most people would see the logic in unifying the area.
But most discussing this issue get what is essentially an architectural issue mixed up with the usual issues of being revisionist, harking back, colonialism, what is Irish etc etc

Is’nt the Peppercannister Church a great little focal point in this area too.

Aye ……there were some great Irish craftsmen who decorated these homes such as the Stapleton Brothers who were stuccadors (they were plasterers Fin)

Graham Hickey conveyed much better what I was trying to say and Rory is correct by saying that there was mainly dross built here since we rightfully gained our independence with just the few exceptions.

I’ve just been showing a group of architects from Chicago around Glasgow, the most complete example of a Victorian City to be found anywhere in the world.

A precious thing, or so you would think but before that it was a Georgian City, like Dublin and before that a medieval city.

That’s the nature of cities they grow and develop and change over time…….. otherwise they stagnate and become like Edinburgh.

while quite nice in a backward kindq way it is very hard to get anything in the city…hence stagnate. it’s a bit late now to be saying this about dublin. it’s on the path to becoming a vibrant modern city so i still believe this and other thinkings along the same line will only have a detrimental effect on the city.

Jings Greg……now you’ve lit the blue touch paper.

It’s my city and I love it and it has its good points and bad, like Dublin.

The high rise developements as insensitive as they are to us now were to replace the overcrowded and decaying building stock left after the war.

Kids were dying in the Gorbals where a family of ten lived in a single room or single end as we called it…… open plan high rise blocks on the outskirts of the city with access to fresh air seemd like a good idea at the time.

Unfortunately the concert hall was built before the lottery so high cost public buildings could only be obtained by giving developers prime land to build their retail schemes and in return they provided the venue as a proportion of the scheme.

So unfortunatly we have a massive retail outlet with a concert hall attached. It is also rather FASCIST because Lesley Martin died and it was left to lesser architects to complete the job.

and they’ve just appointed Terry Farrell as their design Tsar………….really what more need be said?

I think you would find a lot of Irish people live in Edinburgh, either as students or work in the professions.

Not having a go at Glasgow because it has progressed a lot, but it is not in the same league as Edinburgh.

Very few cities were as unscathed by WW2 and Edinburgh was one of the first cities to cry halt to Appollo house type of architecture in the 1960’s.

Now that modern architecture has progressed to a level of maturity and design is considered ‘good’ because it is good and not because it is new and shiny possibly Edinburgh should revisit its development policy.

But to say that Edinburgh is bad becuase it prevented the ‘Lower Mount St’ phase that plagued Dublin is ridiculous.

At least in Edinburgh you have good streetscapes within which to place sufficiently high quality contemporary buildings. 😉

alan d, first of all, greetings to our Scottish friend……So how complete a Victorian city would Dublin or Belfast be in comparison with Glasgow, seeing that all three are essentially British cities that grew up when the UK consisted of all of the British Isles. I’ve haven’t been to Glasgow yet, wouldn’t mind going just to have a look at the Rennie MackIntoshs’ art school.

That is what I love about somewhere like St. Stephens Green. Although I hate the pastiche or the Stephens Green Centre on many levels I still love the way in which the whole green is such a hotch-botch of buildings. A jumble of styles which have built up over the years.