state of railing at Four Courts
- This topic has 30 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 20 years, 6 months ago by
tupp01.
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- July 15, 2005 at 8:22 pm #717410
Anonymous
Inactive@Former Chief Justice Hugh O’Flaherty wrote:
Frank Feeley, recently retired as Dublin City Manager, could take justifiable pride in the renewal of the area around the Four Courts where we sit which leads me as I pen these lines on the occaision of the bicentenary, of the completion of that Gandon Masterpiece – which has been an inspiration to judges and advocates over the decades but which also, of course, takes pride of place as the country’s chief architectural treasure.
Hugh O’Flaherty
The Supreme Court
Four Courts
Dublin 76 November 1996
July 16, 2005 at 2:37 am #717411Anonymous
Inactive@Thomond Park wrote:
Hugh O’Flaherty
The Supreme Court
Four Courts
Dublin 76 November 1996
Source (Forward) Irish Planning Law & Procedure [1997] Galligan Eamon, Dublin, Roundhall Sweet & Maxwell 1st Ed
July 16, 2005 at 10:41 am #717412-Donnacha-
ParticipantSo they’re railing off the portico instead of getting a couple of guards to do their jobs by moving the homeless people on from the steps of the mosy inportant public building in the country. Jesus.
Anyway, whatever about the aesthetic issues, I think Graham Hickey’s point about the ‘symbolic and working importance’ of the building is probably moot, seeing as the courts are to be replaced by a new complex in Parkgate Street.
The new building will house the central and circuit criminal courts and the Four Courts will be relegated to civil cases and/or family law.
I doubt very much that there will be a public space fronting onto the street like the Fourt Courts portico. And McDowell wants underground access for prisoners, so the poor dears will be protected from the prying lenses of the press. The Minister doesn’t seem to like the bit in the Constitution about the justice being done in public. Possibly because sometimes it makes him look bad…July 16, 2005 at 12:45 pm #717413Anonymous
InactiveWhat is most bizarre about the application is that the only grounds cited have been ‘security concerns’ and yet the short-term plan is to move the Central Criminal Court and Court of Criminal Appeal to the newly agreed Courts buildings at Imfirmary Road. Given that it would be possible to have the criminal element out of this building within 2 years I am interested to know what civil cases have produced incidents that presented a real security risk to the occupants of the Four Courts?
July 18, 2005 at 9:56 am #717414Anonymous
InactiveWell I read an article last Christmas that stated that there would be no access through the main entrance any more, and that all access would be through the Chancery Lane entrance. As well as this members of the public would have to go through metal detectors. The idea is that the security facilities would be to difficult to fit just inside the main entrance area.
Its so typical of this country, destroy something speical and then think about the tradition or icon we have lost, so people can lament it on a website like this. Could you imagine London suggesting the idea “we are going to move the Old Baily”. Its ridiculus to close the access, a thoughtfull design involving security could be done if there was a will. Moving all of the criminal courts is also a betrayle of the Four Courts history.
July 18, 2005 at 10:17 am #717415Anonymous
InactiveThat is entirely correct the entire reason given for these works is ‘security concern’ which is pathetic considering that all the criminal element will be removed as soon as the Infirmary Road complex which has been fully acknowldeged as the next major courts location is opened in the next couple of years. In the greater scheme of things this security risk could be described as no more than a fleeting concern as the building will be entirely a civil law facility within a very short timeframe if the same agency proposing these works get their act together. 🙁
What this measure will serve to do is eliminate this buildings 209 year relationship with the river which is the buildings context and in media terms dramatic quality. There is something very special about entering the Four Courts from Inns Quay which is in pedestrian terms a quiet stretch of Quay into a large crowd of theatrically dressed and vocal people. It is one of those unique Dublin experiences and the side entrance simply doesn’t acheive anything similar.
@crestfield wrote:
all access would be through the Chancery Lane entrance.
Side access is provided from Chancery Place or Chancer Place as the street sign now reads, one would wonder if the sign inspired this scheme? :confused:
July 19, 2005 at 4:47 pm #717416Lotts
Participant@Graham Hickey wrote:
There is nothing sadder than structures railed up or entrances sealed off, especially a central, dominant entrance ….
They included some photos of sealed up entrances in the planning app. You are right – they do look sad.
I’m surprised that there seems to have been no objections filed. I know I was asleep on this one but NOBODY objected!??
Anyway I guess the good news is that the concrete paving is to be replaced with Irish granite. And in more enlightened times the railings can be removed comparatively easily.
July 19, 2005 at 6:06 pm #717417GrahamH
Participant@Lotts wrote:
the good news is that the concrete paving is to be replaced with Irish granite.
You’d have to ask why bother – who’s going to be around to appreciate it? Ironically there won’t even be homeless people left to enjoy it, let alone court users.
Haven’t been able to get to Dublin in the past week to inspect the file, but surely AT with their planning expertise are down on this scheme like none other?
July 19, 2005 at 11:29 pm #717418Lotts
ParticipantNo written submissions have been published in the online file. If there were any objections I don’t see them!
Application # is 2706/05.July 19, 2005 at 11:46 pm #717419Anonymous
InactiveTwo’pence worth indicated that there is massive opposition to it in all the libraries so I’m sure someone put something in
April 3, 2006 at 11:17 am #717420tupp01
ParticipantI’m the Editor of Tuppenceworth.ie.
As you’ve seen, we’ve been running something of a small campaign in opposition to the alterations to the portico. I am very pleased that this has been under discussion on these fora as well.
To clarify what some posters have said, security concerns have not been cited as the reason for the installation of railings across the portico. According to the letter on the City Council’s file from Liz Hughes, Architect, addressed to the Principal Officer of Dublin City Council’s Planning Department the railings are to be installed because the portico space “gives rise to additional litter and occasional graffiti. Because of this use, the portico has to be washed down each morning, and sometimes obstruction occurs in the mornings.â€
This is a plan to alter the main frontage of one of Ireland’s most admired buildings, as well as symbolically alter the relationship between the Justice system and the citizens it represents, because Courts Service officials don’t like tidying up the porch in the morning.
The installations of railings will not even succeed in meeting that ignoble aim. There will still be room behind the columns where homeless people may sleep. The space behind the railings will become dead space, full of crispbags and litter. And it seems perverse that the solution to intermittent obstruction of a door is to permanently close it to all comers.
The most recent state of play is outlined in this thread, which I put up before finding this discussion. If anyone has any ideas as to what course of action might be pursued usefully next, I would be delighted to hear them at smcgarr@gmail.com.
Thanks again.
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